How does CCW make sense for self defense when the 21 foot rule

>>33230863
Look up armed robberies.

Use your brain and your google fu, and I promise that if you have both then you can reach your own consensus and that it will either be practical or retarded.

>Not an anti-gunfag
yeah you are now fuck off.

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>>33230863
>21 foot rule

My neckbeard and lack of personal hygiene keeps everyone at least 22 feet away. It's foolproof.

A gun doesn't always need to work to be worthwhile.

It just needs to work more than the alternative.

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>>33230912
>21 foot rule

>"Ha ha ha I can cook up a scenario where a gun might fail to protect you ha ha ha that proves conceal carry is useless looks like it's time to ban CCW"

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>>33230863
Very few attackers are going to pull a knife and lunge at you full throttle like that. Yes, if they do that, and they start within ~21 feet, and they're healthy/able to move ok, then you don't have time to respond by pulling the pistol. That's fine, in that one case you'll have to do something else first (and if you have a CCW but no martial arts training you're a moron.)

>>33231031
Guess I'm a moron for being in a wheelchair then?
Fuck your martial arts shit, the whole reason I ccw is so I'm never forced into that situation.

Every training I've seen about knife attackers include how to avoid getting stabbed or blocking attacks while drawing.
If we take this scenario seriously; yeah you'll get stabbed, but in the arm because you protected your head. Then you'll draw close to the body and mag dump into his stomach/groin.
This proves nothing.

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>>33230863
Because I tend to not pick fights with my local ninja clan

>>33230863
This implies you don't have your gun out before he has his knife out. Both take time to draw. If I saw him drawing his knife within 21 feet, what if I lunch at him and punch him first? These scenarios are retarded.

>>33230863
The point of the 21-foot rule is to be aware of the distance at which you have time to draw your handgun.

Your handgun is your last line of defense. Situational awareness is your first.

21 foot rule is for Israeli draw.
Considering most people carry a gun with a chambered round and no safety these days I don't think it applies. The few guys wirh safeties on a carry gun usually practice with them autistically until it basically comes off automatically during the draw motion.

>>33231299
people who carry with trigger-finger-safety guns are retards flimflam

>>33230863
I mean, if someone gets close and surprise attacks you, yeah. You can only do so much.
For every situation that you cannot defend against, there's a lot that you can easily be prepared for by the time you need to be. Or stop something happening nearby.
Expecting anything like CCW to be the solution to every problem that could ever arise is stupid, but you can be prepared for plenty of them. And that's the point.

Call me an idiot, then tell me what the 21 foot rule is

>>33231371
if your dick is over 21 feet you're safe from all knife attacks

>>33231325

Or you know we just have an actually good CC holster that makes it physically impossible to accidentally discharge. Not all of us buy shitty uncle mikes holsters.

>>33231116
Wheely wheely stupid head bet you wish that you were dead

>>33231371
Hi Idiot,
The 21 ft rules is you don't have time to shoot someone coming at you full speed from 21 ft or less (with gun not drawn before)

>>33231385
This

>>33231409
this

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>>33230863
How many foot rule would become if we swap assaulter knife for gun?

>>33230863
>assailant not in full sprint with weapon ready
>assailant doesn't know you have a weapon

Are you retarded?

>>33230863
The 21 foot thing is silly. If you get stabbed once or several times you can survive. So you could still pull your gun shoot at extremely close range. You could at lest guarantee mutual destruction.

>>33230986
My first thought.

>>33231299
Revolverfag here. What's this safety you speak of?

>Not pocket carrying with your finger on the trigger at all times.

You fucking people must live in a utopia.

>>33231424
Specifically, it's that the average knife-wielding attacker intending to cut your ass can cover 21 feet in 1.5 seconds.

This is especially dangerous because of how long it takes humans to react to a sudden action. Determining if the threat is real and coming up with an appropriate response takes an extra second or two.

Well, gee, if someone could stab you, you might as well kill yourself now and get it over with OP.

I'm calling to let the US military know. If the bad guys have guns, that means they can kill our soldiers, so our soldiers shouldn't have guns anymore. It doesn't make any sense, according to OP.

>>33231612

Is this why you hear about people getting stabbed like 80 times and surviving? I heard it was actually difficult to stab a guy to death but I don't want to be an armchair badass who spout it as fact just because I heard it once on the Internets.

>>33231707
Being stabbed to death and being incapacitated are different things

Also for every case of someone surviving being stabbed, there's a case of someone getting a knife to the chest and dying on the spot.

>>33231707
Getting stabbed is like getting shot. It you don't hit something immediately mortal you can get patched up and live.

>>33231707
It's not hard to stab someone to death, not at all. It's just that people usually don't die from 1-2 stabs either.

>>33231325
>what is a good holster?
>what is a dedicated belt that holds everything comfortably?
>what is practice and training?

>>33230986
what is this

>>33231325
DA is my safety famalamadingdong

>>33231737

in most duels, it ended with both incapacitated or dying, your Heart can take an almost 2 inch tear in it, depending on which part is it, and still keep you alive.... if the heart is completely ruined, you can still keep on going for a good 15-20 seconds

both with guns and Knifes the major way to kill someone is blood loss

>>33230863
The 21-foot rule applies against a determined attacker who gets the jump on you and is 100% committed to killing you right out the gate but for reasons doesn't have a gun.

Which, in case you haven't noticed, is exceedingly exceedingly rare, most people that attack you are out to rob you and most people out to kill you will do so with either a car or a gun.

Since when are SUVs 21 feet long?

>>33231371
An average person with a knife can sprint 21 feet or less and stab you once in less time than the average person can draw from concealment or older thumb-break retention holsters and fire 1 round accurately. This is generally considered to be around 1.5 seconds.

It is also extremely outdated as holster designs and carry methods have improved to where even someone who doesn't practice much should be able to get on target in under a second.

>>33230986
laughed so hard at that scene

>>33231707
There's a lot of factors going into it.
>where
>how deep
>how wide the blade
>serrated or no
>how many times
Generally you can stab a guy a couple hundred times with a 2" pocket knife and unless you got something very important that's very close to the skin, he'll live long enough to get skilled medical attention and probably survive. Meanwhile, run someone through with a sword (or sword like object, a la Espada XL) once and the odds go way the fuck down.

Also, people are little bitches and most knives aren't made for stabbing, so rarely does a knife go in as far as it could.

>>33230863
Turn 360° and moonwalk 21 feet while drawing your weapon.

>>33232126
Since SUV's first became a thing?

I mean shit even things like the El Camino are that long. It's only recently with the "small SUV/crossover" thing that they got SHORTER than that.

>>33231116
You're just fucked if someone gets a hold of you and you can't get out of it dude.

>>33230863
the 21 foot rule assumes several things
>that you don't carry with one in the chamber
>that you don't move and shoot
>that being stabbed is some sort of magical off switch and that killing the guy before he stabs you multiple times isn't a better outcome

I only assume one thing
>op is a fag

>>33231116
If you're in a wheelchair through injury that occurred to you past the age of 6, then yes because you should've had the wherewithal to prevent it.

>>33231371
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js0haocH4-o

It's a police thing.

>>33230986

This scene just killed me, it was so perfect.

>>33232229
The 21 foot rule was established with
>level 2 duty holster
>round in chamber
>shooting from a stationary position


It was purely to show the importance of knowing when you need to move or go hands on with the attacker.

>>33231994
He was talking to some sherif at under 21 feet and he rushed him. But he tripped in a hole and stabbed himself iirc.

>>33230986
scene from what?

Knives are still scary. We had quite a bit of training in 1 on 1 knife fights (mostly because it was fun) and unless there is a MASSIVE skill discrepency both people are getting stabbed, quite a lot.
After the 'best' knife fighter in the platoon was found they showed us how even the least skilled people could still just bum rush him and get several strikes in.

Then we did drills with those shitty airsoft ducks in various positions to shooting someone sprinting at you with a knife. The distances were generally less than 21 feet but we knew it was going to happen, and your weapon should always be close to ready, but if you're a lazy fag with is sling over your ahoulder/back you're likely dead.

>>33232244
>getting hit by a drunk through no failure of your own is your fault

Okay, whatever helps you sleep at night. You're delusional if you think that everyone that ccs should also learn martial arts. What about the elderly or physically infirm? Should they be barred from carrying?

>>33232419
>getting hit by a drunk
>not preventable
Pick 1

And no, I think everybody should carry based on their ability, but I also think that the whole "waah X isn't my fault in the slightest waaah pander to meeee!" bullshit is outrageous.

If you're not physically capable of doing something, don't bitch about it. Either figure out a way to overcome, or be okay with not being able to do it.

>>33232419
>the elderly
At a certain point, I'm sad to say yes l, same thing goes for a driver's license. If they can't pass some basic test, given annually after 75(?) then it should be revoked. I can't count the amount of times some old person in a land yacht has nearly crashed into me driving.

>>33232332
>>33231994

Justified S05 I think.

Basically the dumb hillbilly who loves knives won't shut the fuck up about the 21 foot rule the whole season. Then when he finally gets his "showdown" with the Marshall he starts to rush and falls in a hole he didn't see and puts his knife through the bottom of his own chin.

>>33232446
Nah fuck you. Drunk drivers kill people, and its not their fault. They speed through red lights, come over blind hills in the wrong lane, swerve on the freeway going 90 and do a thousand other unavoidable things.

>>33232461
You honestly think the ability to fire a handgun in a responsible manner and the ability to defend yourself with martial arts lessen at anywhere near the same time? I've seen plenty of 70+ folks who are still fully in control of their faculties, but how many 70+ folks do you see that can physically fight off someone a third of their age?

>>33232388

This, we had Krav Maga classes at school. Not "muh speshul forces" tier just basic stuff. In knife practices we always had "cuts" on our forearms. Unless you're fighting a grandma with down syndrome or you have Naruto skills you WILL get a cut if you engage a knife wielder in close combat.

>>33232186

Most of the time I hear those kind of stories it happens in prison where a guy gets shivved so that would probably explain the survival rate. And the shivving is most likely just to get a message across, not to actually kill the guy.

>>33232481
>unavoidable
Everything's avoidable if you feel like it. Usually incredibly inconvenient to do so, but avoidable nonetheless.

And chill, just busting your balls.

>>33232501
Quite a few. I know a couple that were either career military or career manual labor that could (and occasionally do) still absolutely wreck shit in a bar fight.

The problem comes more with age-related vision problems. Cataracts, macular degeneration, etc. Main reason old people stop driving is they can't see, and they usually stop several years past when they should have. I'm a firm believer that you should be given a comprehensive driving test every time you have to renew your driver's license to screen against things like this, and a similar situation when renewing a CCW would be reasonable. If you can't see well enough to drive you have no business carrying a firearm in public.

>>33232537
Needing to have a certain visual acuity to prove you're fit to drive is fine, and I agree.

Having to have the physical strength and training to beat off your attacker to prove you're fit to carry a handgun is nowhere near the same thing.

>>33232572
And I'm not arguing for a fucking PT test for your CCW. After all, guns are the great equalizer. It's NICE to have, if you're capable of it, but should not be a prerequisite.

That doesn't mean that if you're capable you shouldn't train for it, and you should do everything in your power to remain capable of it. Especially since it has other, far-reaching and long-lasting positive effects on your health and therefore life.

>>33232604
A person who can't see puts others at risk by driving, hence why they shouldn't.

A person who can compared with a person who can't fight do not inherently put anyone else at risk based on virtue of which of them carries and which doesn't.

>>33232516
>In knife practices we always had "cuts" on our forearms. Unless you're fighting a grandma with down syndrome or you have Naruto skills you WILL get a cut if you engage a knife wielder in close combat.
What's that old saying? In a knife fight, the winner goes to the hospital. The loser doesn't go anywhere?

The elderly often go crazy. Dementia, alzheimers, general being old as fuck. I'm sure it rarely happens, but demented old people with weapons wouldn't be good.
Maybe they think theyre back in The War, or they hate niggers or whatever.

>>33231550
This is from charlie hebdo?

>>33232198
I probably just have a shit sense of distance

>>33231550
2000?
Suppress, call in artillery.

>>33230863
Well, most people aren't cemented to the ground in an open field.

>>33232712
You already can't own guns if you're mentally unfit. At least here in the states.

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>>33230863

>>33232727
Idk but I saved it for everyone who tries to tell me "just comply with the bad guy and they'll let you go"

>>33231550
>try to give him a high five
>gets shot in the head
Terrorists truly have zero chill.

>>33233530

Yeah it's from Charlie Hebdo. Still fucks me up everytime I see it. A man go killed while he was down and pleading for his life. Seriously, fuck Islam.

>>33233566
>>>/pol/

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>>33233638

>>33232244
t. Dwight Schrute

>>33231116
The disabled will not survive the day of the rope.

>>33233839
We don't need this racist shit here.

>>33232537
Jesus you really are a stupid faggot you know. Everyone agrees in taking responsibility for your lot in life and making the best of what you've got, but you have to be an edgy fuckwit and go around telling people who've been in car accidents that they don't deserve to defend themselves because "muh accountability" and "you chose to drive a car". It's like the musings of a peabrained child who's exposed to his father's philosophies but can't fully comprehend them so he espouses them in fucking retarded ways. Please cripple yourself, or better yet try to use your McDojo martial arts on a knife wielding mugger. Same thing really.

>>33234625
>Islam
>A race
Please stop this meme

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>>33230863
>How does CCW make sense for self defense when the 21 foot rule is a thing?
Who the fuck just stands there when some Illegal Immigrant is charging you with a knife. I'm going to run like fuck until I get my gun out and get some distance. Then it's 10mm to the face.

>>33232712
>And blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes than whites, let's ban them from owning firearms! And men are more likely commit violent crime than women, let's ban them from carrying! And Muslims and people with certain genes and any other bullshit I can come up with

Fuck off you commie pre-crime believing mother fucker. Depriving people of their rights based on what ifs is retarded and ineffective. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. According to your logic we should lock old people up because if they're a risk with a gun they could be a risk with anything, a sharpened stick, golf club, knife...

Tldr; neck yourself you coward

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>>33234625
>race
found the retard guys

>>33234786
I'm not the guy you're replying to, and I largely agree with you.

But let me ask you this hypothetical question. Let's say in the future, as medical technologies improve, that we can prove scientifically, beyond the a shadow of a doubt, prove that a certain set of genes is directly responsible for increased aggression levels or some such similar. Would it still be morally right, or permissible, to appoint those people as, say, police officers or any other position where a level head is required?

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>>33234625
PHYSICALLY REMOVE COMMUNIST

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>>33231623
>>33231994
>>33232183
>>33232256
>>33232332
OK this is the only copy of it I could find on youtube - start at exactly 10:50 for maximum operator

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>>33230863

OP (assuming you're not a faggot) take a force on force class. They will explain all this.

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>>33234768

>turn your back on someone with a knife to run away

>>33234973
Fuck my stupid life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JN8EiWbwoY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JN8EiWbwoY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JN8EiWbwoY

>>33234994
>OP
>not a faggot

>>33234945
>commies aren't racist
Kek on a stek

>>33231371

It means never bring a gun to a knife fight

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>>33235052
only white people can be racist

>checkmate

>>33232709

>loser dies in the street, winner dies in the ambulance

>>33235104
>What will happen is they will quietly close to knifepoint and THEN demand your stuff.
Thats when you pretend to comply, then when reaching for your wallet you actually draw your gun and shoot them.

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>>33235032
I guess I missed the part when I said I'd turn my back on them

>>33234887
>beyond the a shadow of a doubt, prove that a certain set of genes is directly responsible for increased aggression levels or some such similar.
Nope, doesn't work that way.
Just because I have a red sportscar, automatically means I speed.

>>33235108
>>loser dies in the street, winner dies in the ambulance
Thanks Anon

Ccw is so stupid. If they are at 21 feet you are as good as dead, and if they are at 22 feet you are invincible. I don't understand what gun nuts don't get

>>33230863

The 21 rule is not a set in stone thing. A lot comes into play. Depending on your training, you could draw and fire in that time. If you're jerry Miculek, you could expect to be shot like six times in that short moment (His record is 12 shots, on target, in 3 seconds)

>21 foot long SUVs
Hahaha holy shit what
I bet a woman made this infographic

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckz7EmDxhtU

>>33235251
-21 feet, you get stabbed 1 million times
=21 feet, you get stabbed in the heart at the same exact time you shoot the attacker in the heart
+21 feet, you get through 3 magazines, attacker is just pink mist

>>33232709
loser bleeds out in the street, winner bleeds out on the way to the hospital

I think the most important thing a lot of people are forgetting is that most attacks aren't launched from 21 feet away anyways. This is mostly for police and soldiers who have to confront people.

As a CCW you're going to be the one confronted.

If you're the target of a direct attack, you need empty hand skills of some sort to defend yourself.

If you're the target of a robbery or caught up in another dangerous situation, you need to find the time to draw.

You will likely never ever be in a situation where you're under attack from 21 ft or further and you can see it coming.

>>33235196
It's foolish to believe in the coming decades or centuries that we won't have an understanding of neurochemistry and genetics that's head and shoulders above what we have now. Look how far gene therapy and neuro pharmaceuticals have come in the past 100, 50, even last 20 years.

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>>33232126
>>33232739
They aren't. Even the Ford Excursion was only 19ft long or so and that car was ridiculously massive compared to any non commercial vehicle on the market. SUVs are generally between 14-17 ft long.

>>33230863
>How does CCW make sense for self defense when the 21 foot rule is a thing?

The 21 foot "rule" isn't a hard rule it's a training guideline. It's meant to encourage you to consider your distance to a potential threat and the shortcomings of your training.


For example if all you're doing is going to a static range once a month or so and you're not doing any empty hand fight training or you don't have a combat sport background you're setting yourself up for failure.

In the case of a knife attack you need to be able to do a couple of things: recognize the body language of someone who is being aggressive towards you, be able to get and secure hilt control, get off line, and not get knocked off of your feet (because most of the time the attacker is rushing you to both create and opening and smother any response you could have and this causes people to back peddle and lose their footing).

Training at least once or twice a week at a Judo place or an MMA gym (a real fight gym, not a "UFC Gym" that's actually a 24 hour fitness place with a franchise) should be enough for the average person. Keep in mind though the less often you train the longer time it will take you to get proficient. A guy/girl in a scholastic wresting program who is wresting at least 5 days a week and going to off season camps/training off season is going to become almost indescribably better than the person who is going to their local Gracie Baja academy once a week to roll if they train for the same length of time.

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>>33231116

Shut up SJW. No one gives a fuck that you're on a wheelchair. He just assumed you were a normal human being like 99% of the population.

And even so faggot. Considering you're in a wheelchair. You can provable find a easier way to carry and deploy quickly and no one would be suspicious of any extra equipment.

And though you can't walk. You can definitely learn some grappling. Enough to control the guys upper body and draw a gun or knife of your own.

Unless your arms are also fucked up. In which either way. No one cares.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gpoZk_O0Yo

Get inspired

>>33230863
If you can't door knock down the charging attacker than you will have to fallow that rule for the rest of your life.

Mythbusters have already proven that 21 feet was not an argument, these are people that have close to 0 skill with firearms.

>>33235571

Some of the big sedans and station wagons of the 50's and 60's were 20+ feet long. But yeah, most SUV's aren't that long.

>>33234625
islam is not a race you fucking moron kys

>>33237003
ben affleck thinks it is.

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>>33231116
Being in a wheelchair doesn't make you a moron.

Nor does it exclude you from martial arts training.

You'd be a moron, not for being in a wheelchair, but for using that as an excuse to avoid putting in the time and effort to use what you do have efficiently.

All the antigun behind this is stupid. Gun is still the better option imo.

>be me
>be you
>be within 21ft of your attacker
>get charged by knife weilding foe

Option 1
>get cut like a bitch
>have a huge disadvantage because either now you're unarmed and injured.
>or injured and still have to draw an alternative weapon.
>be royally fucked, as you are already injured and have to go toe to toe with a crazy serial stabber who didn't ask for your wallet and just tried to gut you, like a meth head prepping fish.
>Die because you're constantly losing blood while trying to defend yourself
>this assumes you are in working order after the first injury.

Or option 2.

>get cut like a bitch
>draw ccw
>Not be at as large a disadvantage because your weapon doesn't require you to be in good shape/not stabbed.
>Mag dump into gut at point blank range. (If your impromptu surgeon doesn't just bail at the first sight of your gun.)
>maybe live because you didn't get into a draw out melee with an uninjured attacker, while you bleed out.

>>33231409
my sides

>>33231409
agree with resurrection poster above me, good reference from a shit liberal cuck who happens to write decent context specific jokes.

>>33230912
Nothing personal kiddo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POu_KdeqKvc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk59imFr6yI

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>>33237083

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxfkx4FD4zk

>>33231299
It's for someone with a hip retention holster, nothing else is specified. Specifically police, who almost always have a round chambered and no safety engaged.

>>33231031
>(and if you have a CCW but no martial arts training you're a moron.)

You're not going to disarm a guy wielding a knife who is lunging at you. You're going to get yourself killed, aikido roleplayer.

The 21 foot rule exists because of reaction time, not because your attacker would be able to fucking become invincible. Delivering an arm-bar is not superior to being shot at point-blank range.

>>33231707
Eh, it's both. There's people who survive being turned into pin cushions and then there's that police officer who got a single stab into his aorta and died in seconds. Knives, like bullets, are hazardous to your health. The major problem is that if someone is on top of you with a knife they can stab you a lot, and it's not hard for them to perforate your lungs and other important things in seconds.

>>33233638
Religion isn't politics.

>>33237351
>You're not going to disarm a guy wielding a knife who is lunging at you. You're going to get yourself killed, aikido roleplayer.

Not that anon but:

Of course you aren't guaranteed to disarm someone but training in a realistic manner against a resisting attacker in a training environment is completely different than thinking you're going to pull off a catalog of Aikido wrist lock throws. And the training is not about disarming but about responding so you aren't smothered and stabbed to death before you get a chance to draw your sidearm.

>>33237363
>The major problem is that if someone is on top of you with a knife they can stab you a lot

This is why the training can actually be useful because if you lose your footing and fall on your ass you're much more likely to get stabbed to death than if you can keep your footing.

>>33230863
criminals are incompetent, that's why they're criminals

>>33231675
seems like a great idea if you only carry a sub-compact or possibly smaller.

>>33237370
It isn't weapons either

>>33237378
>And the training is not about disarming but about responding so you aren't smothered and stabbed to death before you get a chance to draw your sidearm.

If you've got someone in full mount, practicing JJ as intended, do you think you're going to be able to not get stabbed? Really, do you think they won't be able to stab you enough to kill you? Wasting money on martial arts training is stupid. Just buy a gun and the only way to harm you is to get the drop on you.

>>33237392
War religions are absolutely weapons.

There are so many factors here.

If someone is pulling out a pocket knife, the amount of time it's going to take them to get the knife from their pocket and blade out is probably the same amount of time it'll take you to unholster and aim.

If someone's carrying a big fixed blade knife in an area where they shouldn't have a good reason to, then you should already be on your toes and keeping your distance.

Situational awareness, motherfucker.

Also, don't give someone a reason to stab you. It may be considered a "meme", but grey man is a thing. Don't be an asshole, and don't wear something that someone else might want to steal from you.

If you get stabbed for any other reason, you're just one unlucky son of a bitch.

>>33235251
What if the have really short legs?

What if they're at 22ft and have freekishly long legs?

>>33237405
Why not both?

>>33230863
the 21 foot rule is more like a suggestion. its not like if someone is within 21 feet they magically become impossible to hit because the average mugger isnt a fucking ninja. firearms arent the perfect self defense tools but its not like you have a better chance with any other form of self protection.

>>33231371
I heard the 21 foot as that most muggings happen within 21 feet.

>>33230863
its cheaper to just avoid niggers

>>33231116
no, that would make you a cripple

>>33235159
so you run as fast backwards as going forwards? Because "run like fuck" implies you're gonna run as fast as you possibly can.

If that's the case, neat.

>>33233638
>>33234625
>being upset about terrorism is racist pol shit


Holy fuck you're retarded, go back to wherever you came from.

this guy gets it>>33237445

21 foot rule implies a very clinical setting - the guy is already running, he's already got the knife out, he's already made up his mind 100% to stab you with said knife. You are perfectly turned towards the guy, your gun is in a certain state.

It's really a drill and experiment more than a real life scenario. Of course you're going to train to draw your weapon fast, because that's harder than drawing slow. You might however easily find yourself in a situation where drawing slowly and deliberately while still concealed is the smarter choice.

also stop being /pol/ outside /pol/, go back to your containment board. Shoo.

>>33230863
Okay faggots, here's the real, meme-free answer:

The 21 foot rule assumes that the attacker draws his weapon in under 21 feet and immediately rushes at full speed to knife you.

If you get bum rushed out of nowhere by a crazy guy with a knife, yeah, you won't have time to draw. You might still run back and draw, or draw while you're grappling with him. It's still better than nothing.

But the point is, most real-world attacks don't happen like that. There's usually some threatening, posturing and intimidation first, which gives you time to put your hand on your weapon. Or, they make a demand for your stuff, and you can draw while pretending you're reaching for your wallet.

Also, we're trying to encourage more of the law-abiding population to carry to prevent mass shootings. If one person had been CCing in the theater in that theater in Aurora, or that nightclub in Orlando, lives could have been saved.

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>>33230863
> 21-foot rule
> laughing_raymond_gibbons.tiff

>>33237302
How in the FUCK did it take so long for this to get posted? I honestly thought it would be FPBP

>>33231116
Shut the fuck up, hotwheels. go back to your site.

>guy tries to 21ft rule me thinking I'm carrying a gun
>unsheathe my rapier from my trouser leg
>parry his knife, then follow through with a riposte
>give him a smug look as he slides off the tip of my blade
Glad I didn't conceal carry an inferior weapon like a handgun.

>>33230863
>23 feet
>Still armed and threatening you
>Shoot
>Take a few steps forward, this is not the distance you shot him at.
>Police really can't tell a couple feet in distance in an autopsy.
>If you say you were a certain distance and you do everything else properly like notifying them and using lethal force only if absolutely needed, you should be fine and they won't even perform an autopsy unless demanded (and funded) by the attacker's family.
>Even then the police are going to be like "Ma'am your son Tyrone was shot by a gun in an act of self defense from the man he was attempting to mug. There's no question of doubt how he died."

>>33238525
*now the distance you shot him at

>>33230863
The moment you realise the practicality of a ccw it will be too late. If you don't understand the importance of protecting others and yourself from scumbag criminals now, at this juncture of your life. You are not firing on all cylinders. If you lack the "instinct for "Self Preservation" there is something fundamentally wrong with you.

>>33230863
Because not every robbery situation is a guy running directly at you with a knife you fucking spastic.

>>33230863

Having a gun is 5% of self defense

>what is "keeping your head up"
>what is situational awareness
>what is proper communication
>what is having a post incident strategy for helping police without fucking yourself
>what is making good life choices
>what is not thinking the gun is the only and best option
>what is knowing when to haul ass and when to fight

>>33231031

21 foot rule, known as the Tueller drill, isn't about tactics and speed.

Bob Tueller created it as a learning tool to demonstrate what you think isn't dangerous actually is.

>>33231245

thanks for adding sense to this fucktarded thread.

seriously.

>>33232154

found the guy who doesn't own a shot timer

"someone who doesn't practice much should be able to get on target in under a second."

>>33236991
>if you can't door knock down
>fallow

are you ok anon?

>>33237405
>If you've got someone in full mount, practicing JJ as intended, do you think you're going to be able to not get stabbed?

The point is to know how to 1) not get forced to back peddle and lose your footing and 2) to get up from that position.

But more importantly it's to recognize what someone's body language looks like when their intent is to attack you (if you've grown up in the ghetto you can see it first hand) and to respond. Do you think you're going to respond favorably to someone trying to stab you because you have a CCW but no other training?

If so you're just a stupid nigger. And your post betrays that you don't know anything about actual knife attacks. Pro tip: the majority of them the attacker does get the drop on the defender so your CCW is not only statistically useless because you're unlikely to ever have to use it but in your specific scenario it's even more useless because it fails at what you intend it specifically to do.

tl;dr stop making excuses for being a lazy nigger cunt and go learn how to wrestle

>>33239533

This and don't be a fucking retard who pulls out his gun to be a white knight because a douche slapped his wife's ass.

>>33237302
>clip
faggot detected

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>>33234768
>the default bad guy in a hypothetical crime is no longer a black or a muslim, now its illegal immigrants, E.G. mexicans
the power of the media is incredible

>>33235159
What is that webm?

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>yfw the weebs were right and Iaijutsu is the only sensible form of defense.

Captcha was nip runes.

>>33246763
Iaijutsu + telescoping baton = nearly impossible to defend against

>>33246453
A fucking go pro clip of a cave, are you retarded? How is that necessary to explain?

>>33230886
this should have been /thread/

As other anons have pointed, a degenerate shitbag with a gun isn't nearly as dangerous as an autist who had played such scenario a thousand time in its head and practiced it with live fire.

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>>33230863
As a fitfag, this is why I only rent at ranges and plan to rely on my ability to make like a pigeon and go fast, without a gun weighing me down.

Unless you're in a warzone, you won't be expecting an attacker at any second. For this reason, you should be prepared to sacrifice one of your arms to buy time to draw your gun.

Situational awareness. If someone is under 20ft from you and running at you with a knife drawn you failed this badly, unless the dude is a stealthfag

Knife is a scary, scary weapon. Any person with even a little brains would know to conceal the knife/intentions right up until he's inside striking distance.

Get your empty hand skills up to snuff people. You need to survive for long enough to draw your ccw.

>>33238424
funnily enough... the 21 foot rule is a valid consideration for swords too.

e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10ncllct6Q

Swords take time to draw as well. Heck, even if you're carrying a knife, you need to create time/distance to earn your draw against a determined attacker.

>walk with hand in pocket
>have hair bun
>no one ever fucks with me

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>>33249308
heh... you have much to learn...

>>33249314
Because they think you're autistic with that goofy manbun of yours

>>33230863
>Be me
>Us Marshall
>Kentucky
>About to take a guy in
>Starts bragging about the 21 foot rule
>Wants me to draw down
>Starts running at me
>Trips.jpg
>Stabs himself in the head

>>33245149
>illegal immigrants
Way to be racist. Illegal immigrants are anyone entering the USA illegally regardless of race

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>>33233638
>>33234625
>>33235196
>>33235251
>>33251928

>>33231116
Just roll backwards while you draw

>>33230863
>backpedal while drawing
>magdump

>>33248946
>you should be prepared to sacrifice one of your arms to buy time to draw your gun.
Ultimately it will come down to this, your weak side arm is going to take a couple hits

>>33237302
what if i move BACKWARDS?? WOAAAAAH

>>33231631
Glock fag here, make it a double

>this whole thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_6bmrqIsP8

>>33232252
I like how in almost every scenario shown in the video they could have easily drawn and put 3 or 4 into the guy before he got them.

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>>33230863
>Kick him in the nuts
>Draw while he's recoiling from pain

>Mythbusters
>21ft Rule
>Adam can draw the pistol, rack the slide, and shoot Jaime before he stabs him
>Try it at 16ft
>Jaime just barely gets to him before he can draw and rack the slide

Just imagine what their tests would show if they tried it with one in the fucking chamber.

>>33234973
>>33235040
>This video contains content from FOX, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

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>>33233638
>>33234625
Virtue signaling won't save you from a bullet.

>>33235353

All of these tests assume that the guy with the knife already has it in his hand. If you see someone holding a knife, why are you not already holding your gun?

>>33255358
More importantly, why isn't there a round in the chamber?

>>33235196
Your mind comes from your brain.
Your brain is an organ.
Organs develop from DNA
DNA is passed down from your parents.
If your parents have a history of mental instability you most likely will too.

>>33230863
ITT

Niggers who don't know that the 21 foot rule doesnt refer to a knife wielder being able to kill somebody with a gun, but rather how long it takes an average beat cop to draw from a duty holster and place two shots COM on said knife wielder before they can reach you.

people who don't realize it assumes the knife wielder is trained, has the advantage of surprise, is in good shape, and comes at you full force as fast as they can

People who probably won't even mention that SD with a firearm is so effective cuz 90% of the time crims see your gattery and lolnope out of there because your skinny ass wallet isnt worth their precious bodily fluids

not even gonna mention that it relies entirely on the individual being stopped by two rounds

Less of a rule, more of a guideline.

>>33230863
>implying once you get wounded you should just lay down and die quietly

Supposedly if someone is coming up into striking distance with a knife and you are beginning your draw but haven't completed it it's best to drop onto your back while drawing and kick out with your legs. This immediately moves you vitals away from them and puts something between the two of you. just make sure to tuck your head forward as you fall and spread your feet apart so you dont shoot yourself.

>>33234887
It already has been. Google the warrior gene. Get redpilled.

>>33230986
KEK, the nostalgia.

>>33231732
No Seen lots of folks coming into ER with stab wounds and expiring after we tried working on them for a bit. You can get a important organ injured enough to kill it with uncontrollable bleeding and you are toast even if you do not die immediately. The worse thing was a girl who looked at some Crip the wrong way. She was conscious when she showed and still died.

>>33245149
It's all three. I think here in the states it's more likely to be
Black
Mexican
Muslim
In that order, but in Europe it's:
Black Muslim
Black
Muslim Muslim
Gypsie
Mexican
Note the first three in Europe are usually illegal immigrants

>>33237302
https://youtu.be/j_6bmrqIsP8

I'M JUST HANGING OUT

>>33254900
i should just stop carrying now

>>33231031
What calibre would you use to kill this...thing?

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>>33257499
Checked

.50 African Eliminator