>Knights >Spend decades training for wars, clad in armour

>>33229416
>>Get BTFO by some muddy peasants with bows and spears

Happened like 5 times ever until the evolution of warfare towards halberds and Swiss spearmen.

>>33229416
>What was the point of Knights again?
They're all dead now. Obviously they were a failure.

>>33229554

>Roman Equites - Frankish Chevaliers

Thats a looooooooong time.

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>>33229416
>Knights
>Spend decades training for wars, clad in armour costing a fortune, riding some of the largest warhorses bred for combat
>Get BTFO by women and children for the glory of God

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>>33229416
>what was the point of knights again?
To fuck your shit up

>>33229624
>what is irony?
Oh sorry, I forgot, I am on /k/, the by far easiest to troll board with the highest amount of actual autists.

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>>33229983

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>>33229416
>Soldiers
>Spend years training for wars, clad in armor costing a fortune, riding some of the largest vehicles ever made for combat
>Get BTFO by some goat herder with a rusty AK

What was the point of soldiers again?

>>33229416
>>Get BTFO by some muddy peasants with bows and spears
hello where is proofs

>>33229748

Such is the life in Mount and Blade: With Fire and Sword.

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>>33229416 (OP)
>Soldiers
>Spend years training for wars, with the entire us army, came in on tanks and hellachoppas
>Get BTFO by some gook farmers with a old ass rifles

What was the point of US again?

>>33230085
Agincourt

OP is still an idiot troll tho

>>33230122
Eh more like spend two months training for wars. But i see your point

>>33230062
what idiot sent them in there? why are they bunched up like that? is that a publicity photo-op? please tell me it's publicity.

>>33229416
In mid and late medieval periods a fully armored knight would wear full plate armor, riveted mail at the gaps and a gambeson underneath. An archer would have a tiny chance to actually kill a KNIGHT in the battlefield, because despite popular myth even the engrish rongbow, folded over 9000 times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth has absolutely NO chance of penetrating 3 layers of armor.

An actual knight on the battlefield was like an incarnation of the reaper himself for the average man-at-arms and levy fodder troops. The only fighting chance people with inferior armor had was to carry a mace or warhammer and to surround or generally outnumber a knight who was separated from the bulk of his forces, which in and of itself is worthy of a Darwin award unless you're losing the battle in the first place.

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>>33230010
well, sure, if we are going to use medieval armour vs bullets (which seem to be at least 2 inches wide...) as an example, why do people use stab proof vests when someone can show up with a .50 rifle?

>>33230177
Agincourt is a monumental failure mostly due to tactics used by the French, fucking stop with the grorious engrish rongbow meme. Archery is an important part of combat, but not in the context of straight up murdering people, the point of archery is harassment and skirmish tactics meant to cause disarray in enemy formations.

>>33229534
The Swiss beat the shit out of Austrian knights at Morgarten by throwing rocks and logs at them and then finishing them off with morgensterns and daggers.

>>33230432
>The swiss
>Fighting anyone

chocolate munchers have never beaten anything except heart failure

>>33230432

Hence why I wrote "until...".

>>33229416
>Humans
>take 21 years to be built
>1 million dollars each on average
>BTFO by a drone w/o even seeing it


What was the point of humans again?

>>33230541
this
We take too fucking long
ayys will get all the pussy

>>33229416
>riding some of the largest warhorses bred for combat

Not all knights fought mounted.

>>33229416

>Humans need air, water and food.
>Die less than a 3 minutes without air
>Die less than 3-4 days without water
>Die less than 3-4 without food
>Have yet to takeover Mars yet with AKs and AR

What's the point of homo sapiens?

>>33229416

Knights weren't actually meant for war, they're meant for keeping peasants in line.

The only reason people think Knights could be use for wartime is because they were used against each other.

>>33230010
a-animu is hi-history guiz

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>some strategical fuck ups make all knights useless
Guess who had no mounted knights here

>>33230451
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Switzerland

>>33230647
>a-animu is hi-history guiz
Only 400 hussites - farmers and townsmen, including women and children - beat the 2,000-strong force of heavily armoured cavalry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sudom%C4%9B%C5%99

Believe it or not but there is fairly accurate historical manga out there with obvious author's own creative writing to insert a smaller narative (the girl in this case) to drive the story of real historical events.

>>33230833
Sound tactics combined with mistakes by the opposition leads to what was on paper an unlikely victory.
This disproves the usefulness of heavy cavalry as much as Napoleon losing Waterloo disproves conscript armies.
>hint: it doesn't.

>>33230934
>Sound tactics combined with mistakes by the opposition leads to what was on paper an unlikely victory.
>They defeated five crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope (1420, 1421, 1422, 1427 and in 1431), and intervened in the wars of neighboring countries.
It... just... keeps.. happening!!!

>As the legend has it, upon seeing the Hussite banners and hearing their battle hymn, "Ktož jsú boží bojovníci" ("Ye Who are Warriors of God"), the invading Papal forces immediately took to flight.

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>>33230833
Love those war wagons.
Modularity.
Combined arms.
Mobility.

>>33229416
muscle for crime families a.k.a the 'nobility' who are in turn muscle for the 'royals'. Just scum families that got lucky a long time ago.

>>33229416
>>33230177
>>33230406
>>33230594
Fun fact: The English archers with their bows folded over 9000 times did precious little killing with their bows at Agincourt. The majority of the French casualties were inflicted by archers with their melee weapons and >>>dismounted English knights in full plate<<<. The French charge was slowed down considerably by the improvised fortifications (each archer in the English army was obligued to carry a sharpened wooden pole with him) and the extremely muddy terrain the French were blissfully ignorant of.

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>>33234102

>We finished the idea of Horses in war for two hundred years

Do the English actually believe this?

>>33234460
English take credit for all kinds of shit when it's good, and conveniently ignore anything that's negative. Pretty much the same for every country.

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>fighting a battle on a farm

>>33229416

>Infantry
>Spend decades training for wars, clad in armour costing a fortune, riding some of the largest vehicles constructed for combat
>Get BTGO by some muddy peasants with rifles and bombs

>>33229416
>Spend years training with CC, get BTFO by Jamal with his shitty Hi-point

What's the point of shooting again?

>>33234460
>Do the English actually believe this?

They were the last Empire to use horses in actual frontline combat cia. 1914.

>>33236766

The last US cavalry charge was in 1942 against the Japanese.

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>>33230122
More like
>Soldiers
>Spend three weeks getting yelled at by men in funny hats
>Get sent to some godforsaken jungle, do a bunch of drugs
>Get BTFO by very angry gooks, but also kill damn near all the ones that were allowed to be killed, plus some extra credit.
>Get sent home after accomplishing absolutely nothing of value

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>>33229416
>Knights
>Spend decades training for wars, clad in armour costing a fortune, riding some of the largest warhorses bred for combat
>Get BTFO by 20mm APDS round fired from an a gatling cannon at 1500 rpm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FHllLf0bRSk

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>>33229416
>Get BTFO by some muddy peasants with bows and spears

In reality this was very rare and most of these "muddy peasants" your referring to were semi-professional soldiers from the lower class with years of training. They just lacked the resources of upper classes.

However:

>Everybody gets BTFO by some hastily trained peasants with early hand held canons.

>>33230177
You're forgetting the English men at arms, the initial French surrender, and the fact that archers were yeomen, not peasants, and also killed rough melee weapons too.

The Longbow is sweet but it absolutely does not penetrate plate armour unless in rare instances of hitting a thin bit/the mail in the gaps

>>33229534
Billhooks predate the halberds and were effective against heavy horse but I believe he was thinking of acencor. where neither bow nor spear was used. They were killed with dirks as both the horse and man got bogged down in mud.

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>>33229416

>MFW thats how you know their eastern cousins were the perfect warriors

Samurai practically survived into the very early 20th century.

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>>33238108
>MFW thats how you know their eastern cousins were the perfect warriors
>Samurai practically survived into the very early 20th century.

Then they got rekt by witches.

>>33229416
Nothing, they were a bad idea created by somebody who didn't understand the point of cavalry, that somehow stuck around for centuries. Unless we're talking about early knights, in which case their purpose was to rape or kill you for not paying your dues to the Lord.

>>33238253
>that somehow stuck around for centuries

That somehow being that they worked.

>>33229416
the pussy

>>33230451
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundian_Wars

I'll save you the details but the short of it was that the Duke of Burgundy took mounted knights to conquer the swiss and got his ass handed to him.

The next year he raised an even bigger army and set out to conquer the swiss again and that was the end of of the Dukes of Burgundy.

>>33238253
>heavy cavalry was a bad idea

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>>33238253
>around for hundreds of years
>doesn't work
But if it stuck around for centuries it means it worked

>>33230833
>Willingly ride into marshland
>Willingly dismounting in a mire
>First realistic usage of War Wagons in Southeren Slavland

Then again
"The Hussites were greatly outnumbered 5 to 1, and initially hoisted the white flag, but when the Royalists refused to accept their surrender the battle truly began."
ay lmao
I can't tell if its outplayed or Deus Vult being a meme

>>33233036
>he genuinely believes in race egalitarianism
Kek, like how south Africa is a wonderful place now because the unlucky masses hit the jackpot of overthrowing thier rulers and inheriting a functioning 20th century country.

>>33231063
>5 or so rare occasions
>points out rare occasions
>ignores OP of DAGGERS AND LONGBOWS used by peasants and jumps right to age of black powder
>IT KEEPS HAPPENING
I'm not sure if you're stupid or really good at pretending.

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>>33230010
>dat picture
What is that from? Google ain't giving me shit

>>33229416
>>Get BTFO by some muddy peasants with bows and spears

Only they didnt.

a knight being taken out like that was the equivalent of a M1 tank being taken out by a dozen dusty jihadis with AK47's and some RPG7s. Yes, it might happen, but 99% of the time the knight/tank is completely unharmed.

>>33230177
>Agincourt

A military disaster for the french because they attacked in incredibly muddy conditions which bogged them down, in terrain which funneled them all into a single killing field where the following forces were forced to try to scramble over those already downed, making them even more vulnerable. In contrast, the battles of Patay, and Verneuil demonstrated that deployed correctly, the French knights would slaughter the longbowmen.

>>33238253
> they were a bad idea created by somebody who didn't understand the point of cavalry,

>Ah. Sir Anonne of Anonne, the greatest medieval general of the age, his tactical genius is unmatched.
>On his trusty steed Armchair, he rides to battle armed with a keyboard and a near infinite belief in his own knowledge of war... only slightly undermined by the terrible forces of reality.

You have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about. the very idea that 400 years of mounted warfare was entirely done by people who "didn't understand the point of cavalry" is perhaps the most idiotic, and ignorant comment I've ever seen on /k/, and that's a pretty spectacularly high level of ignorance.

>>33236783
>>33236766

Italians did a cavalry charge in 42 too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Izbushensky

>>33238702
http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/otome-sensou-r11849

>>33238681
>5 or so "rare" occasions
>Pope Literally calling crusades against one group of people with support of the ENTIRE Holy Roman Empire, Hungary, Order of Malta, Bohemians, Teutonic Knights, England, Saxony, Serbian Despotates, Bavaria
>Gets their shit pushed in 5 separate call to arms spanning over 22 major battles
>isolated occasions

>>33237222
I don't see a problem with this pic.
Nice digits, btw.

>>33239981
>Spears and bows
>muskets and war wagons
Go back to reading your comics.

>>33229748
This is an entirely plausible scenario if the knight was armed in the fashion of the 15th century. Shooting knights in the face with iron bolts out of a handgonne would make for a cool scene in whatever the next berserk IP is made

>>33230113
>Build up your army from swadian peasants on up to a small contingent of middle of the road troops through constant grinding of bandits
>Get into one stand up fight with a numerically superior enemy
>Start over With your 3 guys and every peasant in the country.
>Ave Nex Alea

>>33240816
Every. Fucking. Time.
Once I was ambushed by Butter King and his vanguard of Swadian Knights.
>Everyone died.
>I rode circles around his army, the last man left.
>I see my chance, Butters has seperated from his men trying to navigate a village street.
>I put the spur down to blood
>Lower my spear
>Deus Vult.jpeg
>Last thing I see is my spearhead go through his visor before a hundred blows strike me down at once
10/10 would pillage Swadia again

>>33236783
you mean bayonet charge?

>>33240674
>actual history is invalidated and fake because someone made a comic about it

>>33240816
The Hussite's used heavy crossbows and that is where the bolts are coming from. The wagons would have multiple crossbowman, pikeman and 2-3 handcannons with a larger cannon in the gap between the wagons protected by movable plating.

They overall fucked up pretty badly everyone who messed with them and ultimately fell to in-fighting/internal strife until weakened enough that they lost to outside forces and sued for peace. The crazy thing is that the Papacy had seen to use the Hussites as a means of pre-gaming the crusaders for war against the Ottomans and it failed horrible.

>>33229748
Sauce?

>>33230306
>Trumps plan for Detroit and Chicago.

Maybe then it'll be a nice area to live

>>33230177
>implying Agincourt was not won by English man-at-arms

>>33241630
>The Hussite's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXy0IfsWsE

how would spartans deal with knights? 300 vs 300.

>>33230361
Plate armor is really more early-modern then medieval.

It could resist most gunfire. Serpentine powder is kinda shit and gun designs were pirmative. A .74 lead sphere would slow down fast. Steel plate could deflect it with only a smear of lead.

>>33241748
Spartans could hold a phalanx, but the knights could pin them in place with threat of charge. Unless the Spartans could anchor their flanks with terrain they'd be in a very bad place, two hundred dismounted knights approaching their front while the rest use their mobility to circle around behind would force them to form a square.

>>33241689
It isn't 1984 anymore, Detroit is actually quite nice.

>>33241843
But it could be nicer

>>33241856
So could everywhere else.

>>33241819
probably a phalanx lets be honestlys here

>>33229416
>knights
>better fed from birth, physically bigger and stronger
>better trained from infancy
>better equipped
>mounted
>strong sense of martial pride, and social superiority
>less likely to be killed, due to value as prisoner/hostage
There are very few occasions when it would not be beneficial to your chances of survival on a medieval battlefield, to be a knight.

No warrior is invincible, but the edge that knights had over levy (and even mercenaries) was significant. Would you rather be a Western infantryman (and all the support that entails) or a sandle wearing savage with an AK?

>>33234102
The shame is that John knew it was a bad position, but he rode into battle because he didn't want to look like a coward.

>>33238064
Longbows penetrate armour...that's one of the reasons why they were used.
Steel bodkins.

>>33241691
Implying Agincourt wasn't won by a freshly plowed field with a slight incline
1000 men at arms in full armor with poleaxes
5000 men with bows, Jack's all the way up to half armors, and swords, daggers, or buckler's in support once they expended like 100,000 arrows in the first 10 minutes of the engagement slow firing.

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>>33243096
Actually no, but they forced you behind cover and to either wear full armor with your visor down or to cower behind a pavise and made short work of the partially armored mostly jack wearing geonese crossbowmen the frogs later ran over in the first wave that had the eternal Anglo kill the shit out of their horses with arrow fire and the the long ass slog of the survivors and the next wave while breathing through your bacinet as arrows get stuck in your corratinas velvet shell as men at arms with shittier gear start taking arrows to the face or arms or legs and then you finally get to the English lines but they put wood spikes in your way and dug holes and spread caltrops in the mud you're already shin deep in and you finally as a ragged mob get within hitting distance of an English man at arms but he's been standing there dick erect waiting to drive his poleaxe through your fucking frog skull but your helmet holds and you try to fall back but 6 archers who ran out of arrows come from the sides and stab you in the ass and tell you to stay down because you're the Duke of whatsit and you watch with an English knee on your neck and mud bubbling through the ventholes of your visor threatening to drown you in some random fucking farm field as all of your men get executed by FUCKING LONGBOWMEN because they captured so many of you there are more prisoners than English by a 2:1 margin

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>>33237320
>changing ride of the valkyries to back in black

literally the most disgusting thing I've ever witnessed

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>>33243096
that's wrong. Armor was made to deflect arrows, and we have almost no examples of arrows piercing plate, and none related to piercing breastplates.

The French at Agincourt said that they were scared of the arrows going through the sides of their visors, which are very thin. Other than that, the only way to hurt a knight with a longbow is hope you slip between the gaps and hit chainmail. Most of the bodkins from that era are of a type meant to burst links of mail . I love longbows, but they're still weapons powered by a person. The extremely powerful crossbows could pierce plate, but they would have drawweights that are close to a metric ton

>>33243631
Longbows can and did penetrate armoured targets...
... if you hit them in the right spot, granted.
I'm not suggesting every arrow and hit caused a shout of pain, a whiff of garlic and a knight hitting the mud as his horse collapses too out of sympathy.
'Zut alors, ze English Pigs 'ave killed me, wis their cunning. 'ow will I support my whoreish wife and cheese stink caves now'
It was definitely spray and pray but long bow arrows have enough power to defeat the armour of the day.
Might not pierce a man's heart through the plate but an arrow in the leg is going to spoil your day

Some might say it's analogous to modern tanks and anti-tank missiles...but not me 'cause they're nothing like each other.

>>33243096
>Steel bodkins.
Bodkins were made from soft iron.

>>33244218
Sorry...I was wrong I take it back...on further consideration I am confusing penetration with slipping between plates. Longbows can't melt steel plates

>>33244218
During the closing battles of the hundred years war a large force of English archers went up against mercenary Milanese cavalry in full white harness with barded horsed and got completely routed because they couldn't do shit to them.

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>>33244480
One of the English kings specified in his lists of supplies that a shitload of arrowheads were hardened. It cost more, but those extra arrows that managed to penetrate were seen as worth it

>>33244516
Longbows can penetrate plate in good conditions, but rarely a plate and the padded under armor, and especially not if there's chain.

>>33230558
>We take too fucking long
ayys will get all the pussy
Kek

>>33229416
>>33244632
>Longbows can penetrate plat
Bullshit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej3qjUzUzQg

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>>33243631

>>33243631
This man gets it.

>>33238108
>Samurai practically survived into the very early 20th century.
By virtue of a xenophobic society isolated on a relatively small, mountainous island.

>>33229983
>Horns on Helmets
>Stirrups
GTFO

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>>33241843

no its not

t. one of few white guys in detroit

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>>33241843

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>>33246312
>who he recently met face to face just a few weeks ago

>>33237320
WHY DID IT JUST KEEP FUCKING LOOPING

FUCK

>>33230619
You probably also thinks swords can cut through plate armor

>>33245724
lol both of those existed retard

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>>33245724
They were real dumbass

>>33246983
were the horns made to break off if hit? Because I can imagine an impact on the horns having a ton of leverage on your neck and seriously fucking your neck up.

>>33247238
Yes, you can also clearly see it's not really a part of the helmet, the entire brass section comes off.

>>33245757
Im sure the downtown area is nice but isn't it surrounded by ghetto suburbs crawling with feral dogs and gangsters?

>>33241782
Not to mention that early handgonnes like the one depicted in this manga >>33229748 used STONE bullets. They were really not that great at penetrating armor.

>>33229416
>>Get BTFO by some muddy peasants with bows and spears

Yeah that happened constantly, it's a wonder they kept doing it.

>>33230598
Are you actually retarded?

>>33230619
We aren't talking about feudal japan here. Knights were professional soldiers and nothing else.

>>33241191
No, SAS did a bayonet charge against ISIS just recently for the hell of it. Works fine when you're fighting cowards even to this day.

>>33249029
Is that from the same tabloid that claimed an SAS sniper killed like 4 people with 1 bullet?

>>33245724
Not him, but you piqued my interest.
Why didn't knights have stirrups?

>>33249029
Source?

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>be me
>marching to fight for king
>lordhelpme.jpg
>see peasants
>poor souls
>continues marching
>suddenly- bosoms of incredible proportion
>feels them
>feelsgoodman.png
>realizes its a cow
>king looks at me
>macewielder as fuck
>scheduled for execution
>mfw

>>33230062
>>Get BTFO by some goat herder with a rusty AK
>>33230122
>>Get BTFO by some gook farmers with a old ass rifles
None of that ever happened. Those people had staggering losses and nothing coming close to a conquest victory while taking massive casualty losses and hoping they don't run out of men while the U.S. decided it simply didn't want to slaughter them all.

>>33241748
Not well. The hedgehog defense wouldn't come about for a thousand years and a knight's lance was longer than the dorys the spartans typically used. although the later xystons were long enough to match that. Typical spears also wouldn't work well against plate and while the hoplon was solid bronze, it's up against war hammers and maces.

>>33241748
>hardened steel full plate and weapons vs. linen armor and bronze weapons
>also doctrine of pushing your shields against the enemy phalanx while trying to poke their necks vs. doctrine of just-go-all-in-bc-you-are-impervious-to-basically-anything

what do you expect?

>>33243096
>imbulying
they had no chance of ever going through full plate. Only thing Bodkin heads were designed to go through was mail (with a bit of luck or if the mail was shit quality) and Gambesons, which of course were worn by the vast majority of soldiers. The few fully armored knights were almost completely impervious to all bows and all but the strongest siege crossbows (which had to be loaded with a winch and were not used in field battles).

And why the fuck does no one EVER talk about shields, perhaps the best anti-everything protection ever.

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>>33245724
>>33246983
>>33247238
>>33248159

Those were tournament helmets, I'm not aware of a single occasion where horned or otherwise elaborately decorated helmets were used in actual battle. They would indeed fuck your neck up if they catched a weapon. In a tjost however there are only tournament lances involved, so you can show off without any risk of a permanent spine injury.

>>33230361
the dude on the left got lucky and was hit in the neck and armpit with crossbow.

I assume that's a ballista bolt going through lines of knight in the bottom panel.

>>33250539
Because they were ditched as soon as full plate armor arrived?

>>33250773
But they weren't. Perhaps their use by knights and the like waned, but they remained around for quite a while longer. The pavise is one good example of that.

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>>33229416
There is like a dozen or so times in which Knights lost to peasants without being hopelessly outnumber or ambushed or heavy fucked by terrain in the medieval period. About half of those were when they were being lead by a military genius named Jan Žižka
and pioneer of the use of field guns. Also they were supported by the largest and most advanced gunsmith guild in Europe at the time. They pushed forwards firearm technology as part of the war effort in arming the Hussites. I think it is save to say that half of the times in which peasants won against knights fall deeply under extenuating circumstances.

So about those other half dozen times they won. Across the whole of Europe. Over several centuries...The number of times in which knights crushed them in the field is far greater.

>>33238751

And the French still got BTFO at Verneuil

>>33238156
And now they sell us cars and electronics.

>>33229416
For fighting in areas not covered in mud or large hills.

File: IMG_3596.jpg (49KB, 458x305px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 458x305px

>>33250866
Me want

>>33238108
You can still be knighted, fucktards, you just don't run around inna coat of plates with a 3 foot long curved codpiece.

>>33230004
>Confusing irony with sarcasm
>Calling other people autists
I don't see any way for all of humankind in the English-speaking world to collectively understand the definition of irony

>>33238108
Not even close, weeb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nossa_Senhora_da_Gra%C3%A7a_incident

>>33229416
The Holy Land isn't going to retake itself. Deus Vult, bitches.