Could we get a medieval armor thread? Wikipedia has a nice article

>>33228390
Gambeson and sometimes mail

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>>33228390

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>>33228390

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brigandine doesnt need anything more than a normal harness.

here's the sequence for putting a harness on:

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>>33228698

higher res of just the arming doublet -

linen or wool outer, lined with silk (Linen and silk is good for keeping cool, wool and silk is a bit warmer). two layers stitched together, usually interfaced. reinforcing areas of linen in a few areas to prevent stretch, and points with reinforcement either with metal eyelets embroidered into place, or leather tabs, the points are used to lace the armour in place.

>>33228697
>tfw can't wear pajamas under your armor

>>33228834
What are the little orange ropes?

>>33229745
scalps of ginger niggers

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>>33228698
looks cool

>>33229745
The points.

>>33229745
What you tie to keep your armor on.

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What's your favorite helmet /k/?

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>>33230204
>sallet

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Top aesthetic

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>>33228390

https://www.youtube.com/c/KnyghtErrant

>>33230204
Galea mate, best

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>>33228390
Here is samurai armor broken down in layers and parts. Great protection against slashing weapons (big time arsenal for them) but any kind of scale armor is vulnerable to a good thrusting weapon. Arming blocks of peasants with spears was a good way to counter incoming samurai because they were usually mounted and wearing some form of lamellar or scale

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>>33233735
Not all lamellar uses rectangles tied together tightly. Sometimes the plates are shaped to be interwoven themselves. Scale mail could do the same in Asia and Europe

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>>33233747
Most African nations did not use armor. Ethiopia being the big exception as well as Somalia at times. Sudan learned well from Egypt from thousands of years as being its neighbor. Padded armor on both man and horse serve well against slashing and blunt weapons. Piercing is the enemy of this armor - as it is to most.

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>>33233767
And of course European plate armor. That stuff was legendary. It could deflect slashes, absorb chops, break thrusts, and disperse blunt strikes. Put a cloth gambeson underneath for extra energy absorption and you are set to kill. Just make sure the peasants don't open your visor ad gouge your eyes out

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>>33233787
The Ming tried creating a system of plate armor for its pikemen during a time when European powers were pushing for pike and shot. Had the Qing not absolutely blew them out with the eternal horse archer, the Ming probably would have come up with plate armor that rivaled Europe's

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>>33230568
>Not Posting Gothic

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>>33233799
But the most common, and cost effective, armor around the world since the iron age was chainmail - or maille armor as it is supposed to be called. From early Celtic warriors in the 9th century BC well into the 18th century in places like Tibet and the Caucuses, maille was the common warrior's friend and best weapon against weapons. They say it is weak to thrusting weapons, but the little rings do not give way easily to thrusts. It might warp and stretch... but for a spear or sword point to have enough force to penetrate through and split a ring would be rare.

Any amount of cloth or even wool padding underneath would help absorbed whatever amount of blade got through. Polynesians with metal used maille, Indian rajas used it, Persian cataphracts, Mamluk outriders, Norman knights, Viking raiders, Rus explorers... lots and lots of maille.

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>>33233816
>Not entering combat with armor that tells your foe to fuck themselves

>>33233861
That guy looking at this invisible cell phone on the right must be reading one hell of a story

A wool inner one-piece that knights would shit in, and meille on top to prevent daggers from being effective.

>>33233846
>cost effective
>chainmail
Do you know how long it takes to make chain mail vs plate armor? Hint: a LONG ass amount of time.

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>>33233900
it takes a long time, but it's easy to make. You can have an entire room of low skill workers putting it together once they have the rings made

>>33228390
Did all forms of plate armor involve wearing chainmail underneath? I see examples of both but I'm not sure if I'm just not seeing the chainmail due to it being completely covered.

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>>33235367
No, one could do that but it'd be extremely heavy. Padded armor underneath was the way to go. Mixing the two together worked well too

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>>33233787

Was Studded Leather used for protecting anything other than the body? Was it ever used to protect the head, legs and arms?

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>>33235682
no, it's completely made up.

what people think is studded leather is brigandines

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>>33235367
depends. Later armors, such as in the 16th and 17th, some people didn't wear chainmail because of the weight.

Greenwich armor doesn't need it either, because it uses small articulated lames in place of chainmail. This was extremely expensive and hard to do, but it looks amazing

>>33229745
The ties hold your armor in place, basically so you don't rattle around and/or turtle up.

>>33235682
Leather as a practical form of armor is largely a modern fantasy. I don't think Tolkien used it, but by the time of D&D, the trope had become "common knowledge".

In reality, the gambeson--essentially, pre-industrial kevlar made out of many layers of linen (or sometimes even a form of paper--see references to Alexander ordering new armor for his troops and having the old gear *burned* to prevent scavenging) was the primary base layer of armor for thousands of years.

That simple padding would keep your limbs from being chopped off or your body sliced open (at least against most attacks); it was still vulnerable to most blunt-force trauma and many types of piercing attacks, though, which is why more serious armor was worn on top of it.

>>33230204
Gotta love a modded bascinet.

Anybody ever test this shit against something small like a handgun? How would this compare to Kevlar in a purely defensive manner?

>>33230204
Many of the SCA and HEMA guys get caught up in historical accuracy or at least historical basis.

If a modern engineer was designing a helmet for the medieval battle field and medieval construction capabilities, what would it look like? Would it be the same?

>>33236312

what about muh boiled leather

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>>33236312
I read an account of some English Parliamentarian years ago who recommended a two-layer buff coat lined with -- get this -- ox horn. Basically a coat of plates using flattened sections of horn, and stuffed with tow. He claimed it was light and easy to wear and would turn a musket ball.

But yeah. What you said, mostly. Linen's been king for a long, long times.

>>33230204
Ops-core fast helmet

>>33236419
If modern materials were allowed, Lexan or something similar would revolutionize the traditional compromises that had to be made between visibility and protection.

With period materials and tools, though, I really don't think you'd see anything much more advanced than what had already been developed. This is a case where advances in materials science have vastly outstripped any gains that might have been gained by improved design.

>>33233735
>implying the japs didn't have plate armor

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>>33236541

>>33236491
Not really. A hit strong enough to penetrate a gambeson (or break bones underneath it) would generally go right through boiled leather. And trying to make a padded, multi-layer gambeson out of leather would be ruinously expensive--far cheaper to buy maille at pretty much any time after its development.

No, about the only time you'd see any form of leather would be in near-caveman levels of wealth or technology--so, a very, very poor person in antiquity, for example, would wear animal hides, because that was all they could come by. Anyone with the wealth to buy proper padded armor--even if it was made out of a paper-like wood pulp--would do so. And by the Bronze Age, if you wore anything other than a padded jacket, it was metal, and was generally worn on top of (or sewn into) that jacket (for comfort, gap protection, and some degree of blunt-force trauma protection).

>>33233846
Cost effectiveness depends largely on the price of labor, which due to fragile markets fluctuated wildly over decades, and the fact that mail never went obsolete, so even the poorest armory would eventually accumulate enough to equip a large body of men.

The best thing about mail - and one of the reasons Romans dropped lorica segmentata and went back to mail for their troops - is that unlike plate it won't kill you if you wear it all day. It doesn't get in the way of ventilating heat and can be tightened or loosened fairly easily. Even the most masterfully articulated suit of plate represents an obligation to fight for four hours then pass out from heat stroke.

Could anyone give me information about what Heavy Armor from the High and Early Middle Ages looked like? The Late middle ages armor has become so iconic that google isn't helpful.

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>>33236555

I dig the look of the Jap-ified Peascod.

Have a Jap-ified Morion helm.

>>33236555
domestic production or imported? the breastplate look european

>>33236670
Lots of maille-over-gambeson.

Lots.

>>33236617
gambeson didn't come into use in europe until after the roman. The roman themselves had aketon, but that's different.

>>33236684

Could be either, they were first imported by Portuguese traders, the Japanese like them and copied the design.

>>33236773
Brigandine and coat of plate would be used by the high middle age (1300ish)

What caused armors like Lorica Segmentata fall out of use? Was it just too expensive to produce post-(wealthier time)Rome or did weapons/tactics make it obsolete (And if so, why did brigandine come back into use later?)

>>33236821
Chain was easier and cheaper to produce for mass armies. Pretty much one size fits most as well.

>>33236670
There's a gradual development from coat of plates to plate with mail worn underneath to plate with articulated joints, and from iron to steel to tempered steel, but there's no clear gradation to what you'd see in use. People didn't throw out their expensive, reliable armor when some drunken asshole in Italy started producing slightly better versions. Also, there's no such thing as 'heavy armor', implying that there is such a thing as 'light armor'. There's just armor, made to be as protective as practically possible, and people going into battle wore as much of it as they could afford. Brigandine was commonly worn over maile, archers and skirmishers bought pieces of plate when they could afford it, and everyone splurged for helmets. Then of course, if you capture someone with better armor that yours you're not going to give it back. A medieval battlefield of any period was a mess of armor styles.

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>>33236821

Too expensive in Roman times and after the fall of the empire the tech just wasn't around to support such things for a long time. Those large strips are fairly difficult to produce, the small plates of lamellar or brigandine are easier to produce. But then of course as technology caught back up plates got larger and larger.

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Sup brehs

>>33235603
Wtf is up with buddy's chin!? He looks like he's actually a half human half LOTR orc half burn victim

>>33236860
Don't forget we've found plenty of sword blades mounted on furniture from way after that. Swords from the 12th century reforged and mounted up in a 14th century style isn't all that uncommon

>>33236821
Less practical for marginal benefits. Even at their dumbest Romans remained aware that armies march on economy. Brigandine came to use because it was a forking in development of coat of plates, a cheaper but still effective alternative to the rigid cuirass.

There should be, I think, made a distinction between what was practical for soldiers to wear and what was worn by people with squires, horses and lots of money. Full plate is excellent, but you don't want to walk across France in it and you can't put it on yourself.

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>>33236539
>With period materials and tools, though, I really don't think you'd see anything much more advanced than what had already been developed

So which do you think would be most applicable through the period then? Were there revolutions in design or did it keep up with the improvements in materials science?

>>33236895
Its a greying beard.

>>33236897
>Don't forget we've found plenty of sword blades mounted on furniture from way after that

Pic related. I know its not what you meant, but still what came to mind

>>33236812
>imported
More like found from a shipwreck

>>33236987

That too. There was plenty of merchant shipping that tried to get into Japan(with varying degrees of success) before Commodore Perry's though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Ships

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>>33235367
No, absolutely not. Where you see what appears to be chainmail under plate, in reality there would be only a small bit of chainmail covering a gap between plates.

In very early times you had some people wear chain under various sorts of coats but it was heavy and inefficient and by the time real plate is developed it's just not happening that way anymore.

>>33235682
"Studded leather" wasn't actually a thing. Probably started when someone looked at a coat of plates and didn't understand what they were looking at. The 'studs' that show through on a coat of plates are only the tip of the iceberg, most of the metal is underneath the leather.

>>33236230
Exactly like that.

>>33236617

obviously is pauper-tier. But i think many types of militias that you see forming after the age of heavy infantry might be equipped with such shit-tier equipment of debatable value. i'd imagine it would be resistant to slicing and a light degree of penetration. Certainly better than nothing.

>>33230204
Sugarloaf.

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>>33230204
>sallet helms

>>33230204
Barbutes and sallets are my faves.

>>33236493
Helmets made of boar tusk were fairly common in antiquity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boar%27s_tusk_helmet

>>33235682
>>33236312
>>33237061
i feel lied for all my life now

Did medieval chainmail have gloves? What parts of the legs were chaussess unable to cover?

>>33228390
>but what I'm curious about is what was worn underneath the armor.
https://www.youtube.com/user/neosonic66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQDMtFiDaEA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7w-_QH607U

>>33237061
>No, absolutely not. Where you see what appears to be chainmail under plate, in reality there would be only a small bit of chainmail covering a gap between plates.

that's not quite accurate.
Some 15th C plate styles were commonly worn with arming doublets with "voiders" - patches of mail for the armpit, inside elbow etc. Some styles, particularly the germans, were happy to abandon voiders and make do with just the doublet, sacrificing overall coverage for mobility. Conversely the italians still preferred a full mail skirt under the fauld.

14th C harnesses? that may well have had a full hauberk underneath it. especially mid-century. 13th C coats of plate certainly would.

it was steadily abandoned as a redundant layer over the course of the 14th C, simply as it was excessive weight for no gain.

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>>33235367
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbhzcgs70c
https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21451
Trend was optimization of weight and bulk, chainmail started tor shrink covering less space only exposed parts in gaps between plates. Also these gaps become smaller with development of plate armor and more use of articulation plates.

>>33236410
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygaSMeTh-f0

>>33236821
Nobody actually knows why it came into use or why it fell out of use. It's not like as if they left records of these sorts of decisions for posterity. Iron plates had been in use beforehand and had been noted to be effective, and it is likely that centralization allowed mass production and equipping, followed by disuse as soldiers started sourcing their own equipment locally.

>>33228390
I don't have anything to contribute, but the amount of clank threads this past week have been satisfying.

Carry on.

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>>33236493
That book is mostly a bunch of bull, Greek tube and yoke armors were most likely made of thick leather, or quilted linen later on.

>>33236835
On the contrary, segmentata was more along the lines of munitions plate when compared to mail.

>>33236894
>those arms
wtf

>>33237400
For less money you could have a superior gambeson.

>>33239528
I was surprised to learn that as well, but it made perfect sense once I understood what leather (and gambeson!) can and cannot do, as materials.

I don't know where the trope began, but it would be neat to see somebody dig through the sources and find out. I've seen speculation that it may have been related to the contemporary use of leather by post-war bikers, combined with the historical use of leather by North American frontiersmen, who used it because it was waterproof/resistant, not as armor.