I'm looking to get a good ar15, price range 1500-2000. Is

For gods sake build one.

You could have an absolutely top of the line AR for that money. Nice trigger, Aimpoint, the works.

>>33213988
Nah, get a BCM

>>33213996
Buildfag pls go, there's nothing wrong with getting factory.

>>33213988
DD is for faggots. It's an average ar with an amazing rail. If you just HAVE to be a faggot and buy one, get an lwrc ica5

>>33213988
You are paying $1200 for a rail on a $600 rifle.

>>33214033
>>33214031
>>33213996
So what would you recommend, buy their rail or upper and bcm lower?

I mainly shoot handguns, I know nothing about building an ar.

>>33214021

>I'm intimidated by basic tools and assembly of a simple mechanical device

Daddy never bought you those legos you wanted for christmas did he?

But yeah sure, get a BCM. Better value than the fucking DD.

>>33214033

This.

>>33213996
Please recommend me parts to build an AR you buildfagging shill. Teach me your ways.

>>33214060

>Find friend with AR
>Find more friend with AR
>Learn what like
>Buy what like
>Be happy
>No spend rent and little anon college fund on new part because factory AR not have what like

>>33214058
Just go with the lwrc. It's top of the line and even piston driven. It's hands down the best ar you can buy

>>33214059
nah, there's nothing wrong with appreciating the obvious superior quality of a factory built gun. I have no qualms about customizing a factory gun on your own but really don't see the appeal for building. Especially when after I've ran the math and found complete lowers cheaper than the total for the cost of parts from the same brand.

>>33213988
you can buy a good one for $500 or so

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>>33214060
EZ mid-range build right here starting at $530: http://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx

Just pick out a free float handguard, stock, grip if you want and a set of irons/optic and you are good to go. This is what I did for pic related this last month.

>>33214130
I know I could get one for much less, but I don't really have any other hobbies and want to get something good.

>>33214059
factory has better resale value you dumb faggot. there are plenty of reasons to buy factory over build, and vice versa. its just about OPs situation and preference. quality factory guns can be bought for just as cheap as built guns. the days of saving hundreds while building your own are over. you can walk out the door with a factory S&W MP15 for $500

BCM.
Or, anything LMT if you want to throw down the cake. Folks who know swear by them.

>>33214137
If you don't have many other hobbies why don't you build one? Or instead buy something that is harder to get or you desire more.

>>33214096
I read that in my head as Kevin from The Office

>>33213988
Find an upper in whatever snowflake configuration you want. Find a blem lower from a reputable maker. Get a coupla BCG's that are in line with milspecs. Get a bunch of ammo. If you are so inclined, get an optic. 1500 to 2000 is enormous wiggle room. Just remember what you're buying all this shit for, and let that be you guide.

>>33214152
I'm open to building one, I'm just not familiar with what's considered high quality for ar's. I've wanted to get one for a little while, so now I'm asking around.

>>33214137
and you can get something good for a lot less than $1500. there is literally no quality difference between a $700 rock river arms and a $1600 daniel defense

>>33213988
>I'm looking to get a good ar15
>good
>ar15
pick one faggot

>>33214021
>Buildfag pls go, there's nothing wrong with getting factory.

Other than paying more for less, and maybe not even being able to get what you want, depending on what that is.

>>33214169

colt, bushmaster, anderson, sig, s&w, literally any name brand is milspec and the important parts are all made by the same few manufacturers and just rebranded with company logos.

i would focus more on finding the brands that are garbage or have a bad reputation, since there are so few of them. much shorter list to build the brands to avoid than the ones to get

>>33214169
Most people recommend BCM stuff. As people said hq seems to be DD, LWRC and all the other top brands. However my hodgepodge ar does just fine in 3-gun and has never failed me.

>>33214192
for example, olympic or delton are the only brands i can think off the top of my head that i would avoid

>>33214178
>paying less
so riddle me this. Why is it that I can get a COMPLETE (with buffer, stock and all) Aero lower for 180 but if I try and build it I go north of 180 minus the buffer assembly and stock senpai. The same goes for BCM if I'm using exclusively BCM parts. The only way you "pay less" is by using dodgy parts from dodgy manufacturers.

>>33214169
If you want quality shit, building your own isn't that much cheaper than just buying one. And, if you ever resell, factory will retain a decent price. Frankenstein won't.

If this is your first, buy one. A good one. Get a BCM, Colt, or LMT. Forget DD, they're overpriced for nothing better than the aforementioned. If this is your second, build it to further your edumacation.

>>33214215
this. yeah you can build a $350 ar but you are going to be using a $30 chink buffer tube set from pirmary arms, chink m4 plastic stockset, chink rails or more likely just plastic handguard, etc

>>33214222

even colt is a bit over priced for just the logo and namebrand

>>33214127
>>33214143

You're both astounding idiots.

Its not about price. Its not about resale. Quality rests on you and what parts you choose. Its about getting what you want the first time. Its about learning how your rifle works, and how it goes together. It's about getting the perfect rifle for YOU, not spending double what you paid for in a factory rifle to get it to where you want it.

>>33214121
>piston driven.
>It's hands down the best ar you can buy

Hell yeah bro, I just bought a new Ford f150. Hands down the best truck money can buy.

>>33214121
Ok, I'm really liking these. Would you recommend the IC-Enhanced or the IC-A5?

>>33214239
>to get it where I want it
Wow anon, what you said just now would be very applicable if the market wasn't inundated with AR-15's so minus an optic I can get the perfect AR.

>>33214235
True that. I'd buy a used 6920, but not new. For that reason.

>>33214239
>not spending double what you paid for in a factory rifle to get it to where you want it.
there you go with your strawman argument again. ignoring the fact that $500 or $600 buys you a perfectly milspec QUALITY ar15. can you build for a bit cheaper? maybe save $100 at most, and your mixmaster shit will have worse resale because you built it and you'll have to wait for a holiday sale to get a namebrand part or get stuck using chinkshit ATI tier parts

>>33214215
When I said "build", I was including people who built on complete lowers too, as opposed to just buying whole rifles and paying a premium for it, which is retarded.

>>33214246
in their defense, i really like their horsey logo.

>>33214259
Tis the Jackass of Fury.

>>33214244
Ica5 but that's just personal preference. I'm getting ready to buy one in 6.8

>>33214255
again, as I said previously in the thread. Nothing wrong with buying a rifle and customizing it. For example: if OP wants to get a Aero OEM or Colt LE 6920 OEM and customize it then there's no issue with that. The heart and soul of the rifle (receiver, parts, etc) are reliable and quality. He will probably save some money by buying a rail and mounting it. Or if he bought an upper and lower separately, also fine.

But, building a 300 dollar POS AR and claiming it's "just as good" as a factory BCM, Colt, or FN is fucking retarded. No your chinkshit frankengun is nowhere near as good.

>>33214244
Don't get a piston ar you fucking retard. There is 0 advantage and multiple disadvantages that every manufacturer tries to fix in their own unique ways with widely varying degrees of effectiveness.

>>33214272
More truth. Cobbling together an el cheapo frankengun is fine for plinking. But, if you're going to shoot the ever loving shit out of it, get decent stuff. Buy once, cry once.

>>33214274
this, if you want a piston gun get a dedicated piston gun. Not an AR with a piston shoehorned onto it.

>>33213988
Nothing wrong with DD Op. Quality barrel, quality rail, fit and finish will be superb. Yeah you can build a Gucci rifle for a little less- anybody telling you to save a bunch of money by buying cheap parts is a fucking retard- but honestly you're going to fuck it up. I know everybody on /k/ is a master fucking craftsman, but you OP will fuck up some if not multiple parts of the install. And you won't know which part ahead of time so you'll have to order more or you'll just try to ride it out, or you'll scratch up your rifle trying to install the parts, or hell you'll buy the wrong parts and they don't fit together.

It happens. I'm not saying it happens to everybody, but it happens. Buy your first rifle complete. Get to know it, then try assembling something cheap, then when you know what you're actually in for build your Gucci of Gucciest rifles. But before that buy something nice that fucking works. It doesn't have to be DD, but you won't be wrong either.

Also they have one of the best free float rails out there.

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>>33213988
OH OH OH i just saved this for faggots like you.

here ya go mang.

>>33214280
exactly, OP has 2 grand. He could easily buy either a Colt or FN M4gery and an aimpoint and be squared away.

>>33214290
also a lot of those prices are a bit high.

build an ar-15.
learn what parts are needed, source the parts, look for cheaper, buy, build, blast paper at range.

>>33214290
Or, just buy an Aero Lower and Upper separately for 600 and some change and call it good.

>>33214272
$300? Where did that shit come from. And your colt/fn factory rifle will not come close to the quality you could build for the same price. It sounds like you're a victim of marketing to be honest.

>>33214304
>I can build the same quality rifle as a FN rifle for cheaper
Show your work.

>>33214304
>but but muh random lower and obscure lower parts kit are just as good as your factory gun
>y..you're just a victim of marketing

No, you compare the fit and finish of a build gun vs a factory gun. It's night and fucking day.

>>33214243
Both of you are retards. It has advantages and disadvantages. The advantages faaaaar outweigh the disadvantages. People on k like to shit on things they can't afford. It's an amazing rifle. Accurate, reliable and lightweight bit it's a bit costly. Worth it imo

>>33214304
850 bucks for a FN. Grab a quadrail or your choice and you've got a M4gery. You're telling me you can build a gun that's to spec with the same fit and finish as this? Post proofs then.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/920444981/FNH-FN15-FN-15-AR15-AR-15-223-556-M4-Carbine-NEW.htm

>>33214315
the LWRC isn't bad at all but it realistically does nothing an AR doesn't.

>>33214327
Pistons are normally chopier when it comes to cycling, there heavier, and minimally less accurate. The lwrc is none of these. It cyka more smoothly with an amazing recoil impulse, it's lightweight and well balanced and extremely accurate. All with the added benefit of a (theoretically) cleaner running firearm. These nogunz larpers on this board like to pretend it's shit because they don't know better and can't afford it in the first place.

>>33214310
Ok gimme a specific rifle, and I'll beat it.

>>33214364
great it doesn't stop it from being far more expensive than a BCM

Unless you're doing a lot of full auto, or running a SBR. A piston gun like the LWRC offers no tangible benefits over a DI. Also it's "light weight" a super light BCM will still be lighter than that.

>>33214371
Scar 17

>>33214371
I just did
https://www.gunsamerica.com/920444981/FNH-FN15-FN-15-AR15-AR-15-223-556-M4-Carbine-NEW.htm

I await your shitty PSA parts built gun.

>>33214371
famas

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>>33214371

>>33214021
>there's nothing wrong with getting factory.
except at that price youre paying twice the worth of the parts because you dont want to use tools no more complicated than punches and a fucking torque wrench.

>>33214375
Lmt mws

Gg no re

>>33214391
>this meme again
>not reading the thread
go back, read then come back and talk faggotron.

>>33214371
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_1989/products_id/70770/DPMS+RFA3-OC+Oracle+30+1+223REM5.56NATO+16%22

>>33214374
Cleaner running firearm and theoretically more reliable. Even if all the stats of both guns add up to be the exact same you're still left with the fact that a piston will run cleaner. Now find an ar that's as accurate, light, and smooth shooting as that lwrc (assuming you've shot one) and tell me the price. At best it'll be just slightly cheaper. Might as well pony up and pay that extra little bit for the added benefits of the piston in the lwrc. It's actually a really good deal if you break it down.

>>33214371
or you know what? let's make it a challenge for you anon

http://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/5-56mm-nato-oem-mid-length-16-rifle-w-25-gift-card-sku100018335-81838-174289.aspx

>>33214380
>>33214400
what specifically about this rifle do you believe to be worth the extra $300-$600?

>>33214150
Can confirm LMT is great.

>>33214239
>Its about getting what you want the first time. Its about learning how your rifle works, and how it goes together. It's about getting the perfect rifle for YOU
And you can have all that with a factory rifle and be able to have fun with it on day 1.

I like to build ARs too but your seemingly elitist feelings of superiority about self-built vs factory made is asanine at best, full autism at its worst.

Actually, you're probably just autistic, so welcome to 4chan, brother! :)

>>33214150
I have an LMT and I don't usually talk about it because LMT fanboys are fucking scientology-level cancer.

Nice rifle though. Thinking about getting an LWRC in 7.62 next.

>>33214380
https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-complete-lower-receiver-standard.html
Combined with
https://www.dsarms.com/p-16058-dsa-ar15-16-chrome-lined-barrel-w-geissele-mk4-fde-13-handguard.aspx

Total price 654.95.

Also isn't a fuck traded carbine gas on 16 inch barrel. Spend the difference on sights and lancers.

>>33214364
My only reservation about getting piston over DI is that I know if Im droping that kind of money on a rifle, Im keeping it gor 10+ years.

What I dont know is: Will the company that makes those proprietary parts still ne around to replace a part when it breaks?

>>33214449
>using aero precision lower

You were arguing that you can build a quality rifle comparable to factory builds like Colt and FN....and you picked aero precision lower.

you're cancer.

>>33214408
not having chinkshit parts that you got form some obscure dealer.

>>33214457
Absolute worst comes to worst get a new upper. Not that hard

>>33214469
The upper is 2 grand though. That is hard.

Is it possible to find a separate KAC lower?

>>33214475
Meant to say stripped, and apparently somewhere is finally selling them.

>>33214464
nice goalpost moving. i almost didnt notice you avoided the question entirely. what SPECIFICALLY about this rifle makes it better than a rifle i can build with the exact same OR HIGHER QUALITY specs for hundreds of dollars less?

as far as i can tell, they took a milspec rifle, added a couple marginally higher quality parts to it, slapped their logo on it and doubled the price. For $1200 i could build the same one with a high quality barrel, trigger, and handguard but a different logo on the receiver.

>>33214463
...the lowers literally are of the same quality you retard. They're mil spec. The only difference is the stamp on the side. A lower is a lower. Google if you don't believe me. I'm going to reiterate what I said before: you believe in marketing too much. And really you're gonna criticize Aero when you posted a fucking carbine gas on 16 inch barrel with a2 post and railed receiver? Fuck outta here dipshit

>>33214388
Svt 40

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>>33214474
>faggot premise is that the company goes under and you can't get parts
>tell him to buy new upper and slap it on
>faggot thinks I'm talking about the same company that supposedly went under
>op is autistic and faggot

>>33214490
>...the lowers literally are of the same quality you retard. They're mil spec.
> Google if you don't believe me

For shits and giggles, I did, and I found people bitching about aero shit being out of specs, and their shitty customer service.

Don't worry,keep believing your cheap shitty build is just as good as an FN. Nothing wrong with a bit of delusions now and again, as long as you're not hurting anyone.

>>33214490
They're not though, milspec isn't that great, it still leaves a lot of tolerance room. That's without even getting into CQ issues or forged versus billet.

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Ok, LMT people. Is the CQB16 a good rifle? Its a little over my budget, but it sounds like it might be worth it.

>>33214518
They're very good rifles. Whether they're worth the price though, is really up to you. Plenty of same-quality competitors out there.

>>33214323
I just read through like 3 leddit threads that were all complaining about shitty cs in 2014 , not out of spec parts. If youre afraid of aero then get any rollmark you want, I beat your price by 200 dollars.

>>33214407
It has no hand guards or stock. That's not a completed rifle. Glad you're getting on the build train though.

>>33214486
>1200
K EK
E
K

you can get them for 850 dumbass.

>>33214546
>milspec means it'll have the same fit as any other "milspec" rifle
This is what buildtards believe.

I'm not saying milspec won't work, but it's not going to fit the same. An Anderson lower with a PSA lower is "milspec", but it's not going to fit as well as an areo lower and upper, to say nothing of a Noveske lower and upper.

>>33214561
>continuing to move the goalpost
>still doesnt realize you can build what is basically a milspec rifle for cheaper than $850

>>33214569
>i paid $600 so my upper and lower would fit better
why not just buy the stripped aero/noveske lower and upper if that is such an important aspect of a rifles performance to you?

>>33214578
it's odd that you consider saying "FN is superior quality" goalpost moving. Tell you what, if you can build a rifle out of FN parts for the same price as an FN factory gun I'll believe you anon.

There, literally build the same exact fucking gun. If you cry "goalpost moving" I'm gonna shit in your mouth.

>>33213988

In for LWRC but they make an excellent Di gun as well. You should look into it. Comes well equipped out of the factory and pretty much only needs a new trigger. And even then that's a big maybe.

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>>33213988
First AR? Don't build unless you can only afford to buy parts one at a time. I'm partial to BCM but DD makes good rifles.

If you're just getting into ARs you're not going to know what the fuck you want or should get since the market is so flooded. A complete rifle gives you a warranty, a good guarantee that it's going to function properly, and it gives you a great foundation to start with. As you learn more and your tastes change you can change parts as you see fit.

Don't listen to posters like >>33214578 saying to build a franken-gun as your first AR

>>33214546
http://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-company-mfg-complete-lower-receiver-assembly-gunfighter-stock-bcm-lrg-stk-mod-0-blk

Like this for instance. You get a nicer grip and stock than that fn too. And that puts total price at 850. I'd still never go for this because spending that much on a lower is dumb but bcm is gonna be as good as a regular ar lower will get.

So to reiterate, you get a way nicer rail, more well-suited gas system for the barrel length, nicer grip and stock for the same price and all you need to do is push 2 pins in. There's no reason to settle for a prebuilt pos unless you're so stupid that you can't do that, in which case you're also too stupid to load a gun in the first place.

>>33214601
https://fnamerica.com/products/discontinued-products/fn-15-carbine/

its literally a fucking milspec rifle. that was the entire point i was making, you mong. if you want a rifle thats cheaper and has the same quality parts, go to literally any well known parts distributor and pick a series of parts that total less than $850. you now have a rifle that is cheaper than an FN and superior in any way that you have chosen. spouting "muh FN quality" doesnt actually make the quality of the parts any different than that of any other milspec parts.

>>33214642
so what you're saying is

you can't do it.

>>33214630
I also said I'm not opposed to doing this (getting an upper and lower separately)

read. the. fucking. thread.

>>33214656
http://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-company-mfg-complete-lower-receiver-assembly-gunfighter-stock-bcm-lrg-stk-mod-0-blk
+
https://www.dsarms.com/p-16058-dsa-ar15-16-chrome-lined-barrel-w-geissele-mk4-fde-13-handguard.aspx

Read the thread. The M4gery was already surpassed. It even has muh lower with good cs.

>>33214667
Then why keep posting complete rifles like they're not shitty suggestions?

>>33214678
nigger, we have been over this. I'm not opposed to snapping together a completed lower and upper together.

>>33214684
so what you're saying is

you can't do it.

>>33214656
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-complete-classic-enhanced-lower-blem.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-13-geissele-modular-m-lok-without-bcg-or-ch-516445099.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-5-56-premium-hpt-mpi-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-no-logo-39339.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-m16-charging-handle-438.html

>30 seconds at PSA later

with a high quality free floated rail and with $100 to spare.

>>33214684
>he thinks buying a completed upper and lower is cheaper than buying the parts
i just dont have the will power to do this every time some retard decides to get emotionally invested in a gun thats worth several hundred less than what he paid.

>>33214683
but I didn't faggatron ultra, I posted the Aero OEM a while back.

my gripe is when people build rifles from scratch with sketchy parts and make some hodgepoge franken gun and say it's as good as a complete mil-spec

reference this >>33214407

>>33214690
>PSA
>quality
pick one

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>>33214689
do find where I've said that in the thread anon, in fact you'll find I've said the contrary.

>>33214096
>be me, grog
>Grog want new hunting stick
>stick being sold for 10 shiny rock
>Grog have 10, but 10 rocks is all me rocks
>scratch me head
>use big cro magnon head to make thought pictures
>find big tree
>climb tree
>break off stick
>rub stick on rock, make pointy
>grog now have hunting stick
>grog still have shiny rocks
>Survival.cavepainting

>>33214698
odd seeing as every time I've done it with a gun (aero, BCM, etc) the parts always add up more than a completed lower.

>>33214708
and what, exactly, is the problem with PSA parts? could it just be that you have to justify your choice in product but have no quantitative data supporting your belief in its superiority?

>>33214702
The irony is that its a complete rifle, so technically it could fire with a magazine, but nobody would call that finished or serviceable with a straight face.

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While we're on the subject, who makes the best 20" pencil profile barrel?

>>33214719
Didn't you know, kid? Only having the fn rollmark on all parts grants the accuracy bonus. A parts rifle simply cannot hope to compete.

>>33214710
You said it here
>>33214656

>>33214714
>30 more seconds at PSA

http://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-state-armory-classic-lpk-black-6983.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-state-armory-moe-stock-kit-black.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-safe-fire-premium-lower-receiver-with-built-in-trigger-guard-516444988.html

if you were trying to build a 1:1 replica including the exact same model and manufacturer of every part in an upper or lower, i could see that happening. the price reduction in higher quality parts guns is that you can buy the quality you want in every single part the first time.

>>33213988
Never had a problem with this https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-15-sport-ii

If you want some weight reduction
http://f-1firearms.com/bdr-15-3g-full-build-rifle/

>>33213988
DD is all marketing hype anon, do more homework

>>33214058
Their rails aren't even that great whats all the DD rail hype about??

>>33215626
SOPMOD Block 2.

Everybody wants to play soldier.

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>>33215626
>Their rails aren't even that great

>>33214170
Patently false.

What's the hype behind BCM? I'm between so much work right now I don't have time to build; and I was thinking about trying one out. /k/ is all about BCM and I'm wondering why.

>>33214397
Heavy as fuck. No thanks.

Look at all the DD haters in this thread. Too poor to play the AR game, so they mad.

>>33215693

I've worked with DD before; the issue isn't a shitty rifle behind a great rail as much as it's the same rifle w/ little to no improvements over 5 years.

>>33215703
>w/ little to no improvements over 5 years
What improvements are you asking for? It's a fucking AR. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

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>>33215716

So, their rail and variations of it aren't an improvement? Weight, style, method of attachment, etc? I'm guessing they've never changed those or added styles.

For fuck sakes fan boy; chill out. They're adding polymer selectors and duct covers saying it's an "improvement".

DD's strategy as a company is failing them; and my state, which they work out of, is the testing grounds for it. They're not doing anything of value to the market. LWRC, American Manufacturing Defense, etc. have done interesting and practical work to lowers with ambi mag releases, etc.

It's ok, I used to be like you. If it's something I owned I would defend it blindly and try to down play anyone who disagreed as retarded.

>>33215764
But the only DD thing I'd buy are their rails/handguards and their barrels. Calm down.

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>current year + 2
>still buying pre-built parts for your AR
>not sourcing steel and aluminum from
>not manufacturing your own parts
fucking plebs I swear

>>33214132

That a lancer mag?

>>33214060
Buy a completed upper so you won't need special tools to put it together.

>>33215690
Hoppes and oats, nigger.

>>33215687
Because of John Wick

>>33213996
not OP. canuck here.

the financial incentive for building over buying complete doesn't exist here. easier to just ball out on a gucci brand AR.

>>33213988
DDM4V7 LW is the way to go.

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>>33215951
indeed it is.

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>>33214058
If this is your first AR, and you don't have a friend or mentor to provide guidance to you on a build, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to purchase a quality complete rifle. I was lucky to be able to buy a built rifle from someone who really knew their stuff and helped me figure out how to do the things I wanted with it without making (many) dumb mistakes. There's a lot of great information out there in regards to building rifles, functionality, parts compatibility and so on, but if you have no desire to spend a lot of time doing the research and just want a nice rifle to shoot and be done with it, just go for a built rifle. There are people out there that will tell you that you could have gotten the same thing for less, but they are not taking into the account the amount of time it takes to develop the necessary "skills' and knowledge required to build a *good* rifle. I read, lurk and research quite a bit, so learning more about putting together rifle builds is something I feel is worth spending my time on. Do what serves your purposes best and will provide you with the fulfillment for your time.

>>33216583
I got the DDM4V9LW. No Regerts.

>>33216434
>t- I've never trekked 12 miles in gear.

>>33215687
BCM is a company that assembles serviceable rifles and markets them as premium rifles. What's special about them is the prowess of their marketing department and the general naïveté and lack of education of the gun buying demographic.

>>33218505
As long as it's mid-length and lightweight, you can't go wrong.