What is the ultimate close combat melee weapon? My money's

Do you know where I can find little silver triangular pyramid caps roughly an inch and a half in diameter?

>>33149317
A gun

>>33149317
Butt stroke to the head series, ready, MOVE!!

>>33149346
They didn't think so in WWI.

>>33149334
Hot topic.

>>33149368
>>33149334
Those are bolts... Not caps. That thing probably weighs 3-4 pounds. Best trench melee for me is tomahawk. RANGER SCHOOL.

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>>33149334
Right here in my hand

>>33149346
Guns run out of ammo and aren't silent.

Trench raids were meant to be quick and brutal without alerting the enemy. Of course once people started shooting back then you'd shoot too

>>33149405
They're neither. These are nails. Boot nails were often used in the construction of such clubs.

>>33149317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOaEjJz-6jg

shovel mah nigga, kill some Krauts then dig a foxhole.

>>33149405
uhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHNACCEPTABLE

A stick grenade wrapped in barbed wire.

>>33149444
Also, unlike what Battlefield 1 tries to feed kids these days, 95% of the soldiers in WWI (and over 50% in WWII) had nothing but 2-meter long bolt-action infantry rifle for a weapon. It's worse than nothing in close quarters.
>>33149451
Also an option, but it's more awkward and harder to use. Also, if you jam it in too deep, it can get stuck at the worst possible moment, which never happens with a club or a mace.

>>33149425
But isn't Betty a woman's name?

But seriously OP, I have to agree with you to some extent. The people in WW2 who fought in close quarters trenches wanted and needed one along with everything else they carried.

Personally I see the use for one. As tacticool as it may be for us in the modern day.

It allows for you to KO someone through a helmet. Something a knife wouldn't be able to do. Give you a bit more reach than a knife. And it's easier to eliminate a sentry with, than a knife.

In an imaginary world it would be perfect. You'd sneak behind him, cover his mouth, shank him in the heart and it's over. But in real life he's gonna wrestle and pull away even after multiple stab wounds and then proceed to scream and gurgle and perhaps even shoot back at you for the next few seconds of life he has.

With the trench club though. One big hit to the head and 99% of the time he'll be knocked out or dead. Instant incapacitating.

Their only downside is how big and cumbersome they are to carry. I have a spiked version and it's impossible to carry that one in a backpack due to the spikes.

>>33149485
>95% of the soldiers in WWI (and over 50% in WWII) had nothing but 2-meter long bolt-action infantry rifle for a weapon. It's worse than nothing in close quarters.
Yeah, I would have to have a 3-foot-long spear that weighs 20 pounds while fighting a guy in a hallway where he can't dodge or run away. I mean... what if I didn't want to stab him or club him to death?!?!?!

Fucking idiot.

>>33149485
95% of the soldiers in WWI (and over 50% in WWII) had nothing but 2-meter long bolt-action infantry rifle for a weapon

but that's wrong tho.

>>33149522
>Fucking idiot.
Says the guy who is literally debating against historical fact.

The other guy is right, rifles were a pretty poor choice in the trenches, and we have the historical literature to prove it. Trenches weren't nice and straight, ideal for thrusting a spear. They were winding, uneven, muddy shit pits where you pull back to thrust your bayonet and your rifle gets stuck in... who the fuck knows, webbing, dead bodies, tree roots, anything.

>>33149522
Try moving around, turning fast or parrying with a spear in a tunnel barely wider than your shoulders.
>oh i'm just going to shoot him!
Not with your 5-round internal magazine you don't, what with the shooting the enemy assaulting your trench and your buddies all around you. If you dropped that rifle in the mud even once, you won't be able to shoot it at all. Why am I wasting my time, you're probably an unemployed millennial Britain or some such, like most of /k/ is.
>>33149546
How is it wrong? The only nation in WWI to mass issue semi-automatics (under 70000) were the French. MP-18, the only sub-machine gun of the war, was extremely uncommon (remember, I did say 95%)
In WWII, the only nation with a standard-issue semi-automatic rifle was the US. Soviets equipped about a quarter of their army with the SVT-40, but they dropped it as the war progressed. Everyone else used nothing but bolt-actions and SMGs (never mass-issued to anyone other than select frontline units, like the Soviet assault engineer brigades) for 90% of the time.

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Personally, I think its the bartek bludgeon

>>33149317
>What is the ultimate close combat melee weapon?
Plate armor.

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>>33149595

WW1 is a reason why I always feel pic related when I hear the tired "Full auto is only useful for suppression" meme.

>Experience of WW1 single handedly motivates the abundance of submachineguns in the interwar and WW2 period.
>Soviets deploy buttloads of submachinegun units with all the close quarters fighting they're doing with the Nazis.

I mean yeah up until 1918 it was pretty much just semi automatic pistols and that was still highly coveted and desired for trench raiding but there's a reason they didn't go "Oh semi automatic is all we need don't worry".

>>33149600
were you talking about just primary weapons, or that they just had a rifle and no Pistols, grenades, shotguns, or any Plethora of the melee trench weapons that they had.

I have not slept in a day or so, so my reading/comprehending might be fucky.

>>33149639
Yeah, but how much more suppressed can a person be than six feet under?

>>33149485
>It's worse than nothing in close quarters. What is a bayonet.

>>33149637
The spikes are too long and sharp, they'd get caught on flesh.
>>33149646
Well, "primary weapons" as you called it (that is, long bolt-action rifles), is the only thing the soldiers had, pretty much same as today (except with assault rifles instead of bolt-action ones). You won't find any pistols, SMGs or shotguns on today's battlefields either, outside of special forces, no matter what video games tell you.
The only reason you'd have a pistol/carbine in WWI is if you're an officer, an artilleryman or a trench raider, and the only people who had shotguns were the Americans in 1918. SMGs (or rather SMG, the MP-18) was a prized possesion, only Sturmtruppen got those, all 5000 of them.

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>>33149317

easily concealable and provides many other useful functions for everyday use, can provide quick and deadly thrusts and slashes that arent as easily avoidable as larger heavier weapons are.

>>33149687
Another extension of the already overly long weapon. It's great in an open field, but it's a noose around your neck in close quarters.

>>33149695
I have to disagree there. If you look at any recording of a stabbing, you see the victim almost never goes down instantly, and always resists for a while, even if hit in the neck and head. If you're attacking someone armed with the knife, the result will be two corpses.

>>33149600
>never mass-issued to anyone other than select frontline units, like the Soviet assault engineer brigades) for 90% of the time.
USSR produced 6 millions of PPSh SMG. For comparison USA produced 4 millions of Garands.

1944 soviet standard infantry company had 70 rifles (Mosin), 50 SMG, 12 LMG, 2 HMG.

>>33149695
Good idea. And if you put it on the end of a stick, you could increase the range and keep the enemy at bay. But where to get a stick? How about tying it to the end of your rifle? Oh.....wait

>>33149695
>avoidable
there's nothing avoidable about a fast club swing, I'm afraid, and
>>33149753
So? Do you have any idea of how massive the Soviet army was? It's a drop in the bucket. And your "1944 infrantry company" information is wrong. Most companies were equipped with nothing but Mosin-Nagants, DP-28 and Maxim machine guns, while certain shock battalions were equipped with nothing but PPsH and PPS-43.

>>33149782
larger weapons are easily countered by moving within the persons space, they are now forced to use short wacks where even a hammer would become more useful.

>>33149485
>Also, unlike what Battlefield 1 tries to feed kids these days...

It's a video game, it would be boring if everyone except for 1 or 2 people per match had to use the same weapon. I also doubt that 50%+ of the combatants had "sniper rifles" with a telescopic scope. Hell, they even have red dot reticles available in BF1.

>>33149485
>2-metre
Well you're just fucking retarded then.

>>33149809
I don't have a problems with stupid games, I have a problem with manchildren bringing Hollywood and videogame "lore" into real world, where clueless politicians use it to meddle with people because of these false assumptions. I'm not just talking about weapons, I'm talking about everything. I do believe misrepresentation of war and weapons in massively popular media can have long-term repercussions. Art and propaganda has had a massive effect on history since time immemorial.

It depends entirely on time period, situation (are you defending yourself on the street or fighting in a hundreds-strong shield wall etc)

The most obscenely damaging weapon would be a dane axe. The best one-on-one weapon is a spear or a rapier(easier to carry). For less lethal purposes a metal bat with a hand guard perhaps.

>>33149782
>while certain shock battalions were equipped with nothing but PPsH and PPS-43.
There were no SMG shock battalions someone fed you fake news. There was shock company (literally called "SMG company") in every regiment armed with SMGs instead of Mosins created by Stalin specific order in the end of 1941. Standard infantry company was armed with rifles and SMG in aforementioned proportions in 1944.

>>33149638

Not a weapon

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gladius

>>33149687

Do you own a Mosin? If yes attach your bayonet to it. Run around your house as quickly as possible.

If you didn't have your rifle hit or get stuck in anything you live in a mansion or are a liar.

In those narrow trenches though...

>>33149346
fag

>>33149809
Back to Basics was a great gamemode. Forced the entire server to use service rifles with no sidearm. Great fun. Bayonets and melee attacks everywhere.

Also they're not red dots, they're aperture/diopter sights. That's not to say ambient light reflex sights didn't exist yet, because they did. They were typically for shotguns though and washed out like nobody's business.

>>33149874

They need training to use one. And it was more so used with a shield

>>33149873
Armored fist is a weapon.

>>33149898

Well you can increase magnification on the optics that have a red dot for a reticle up to like 2.5x and I'm not aware of any such magnified optic in existence during WWI

>>33149915
So are hob-nailed boots

>>33149917
That setting exist for all sighting options including irons. It's just an odd quirk of the game that I don't fully understand the logic behind.

>>33149346
>A gun

you're a special brand of stupid, arent you?
So obsessed with a gun, that you think its the answer to anything on /k/

If someone asks, "what's the best bicycle for keeping fit" do you answer "a car"?

if someone says "reccommend me a nice book" do you say "buy a dvd"?

Ever wondered why people think you're a dick? .

>>33149929
Yeah, I think you're right on that. I didn't play it all that much but it seemed decent enough. I never seemed to find any particular class/weapon combo that I was all that good with so I stopped playing after a while.

>>33149715

No, this is false. Training can definitely improve the chances that you win a knife fight.

Of course, hoping that someone on /k/ is a BJJ/Judo/Wrestler who's also trained in knife fighting/combatives is a different thing all together

>>33149898
Do you have a photograph of one?
>>33149853
>spear
Too long and cumbersome for close quarters combat, and we are talking about that. I'm also not sure about your axe idea. You still can't thrust it, much like a club, but unlike a club it is a lot more brittle and more likely to get stuck. You can't hold a club wrong, every way works. There's no real lethality difference between getting hit in limbs/head with an axe or a trench club, but the axe can get stuck.

>>33149940

Don't let the troll trigger you. Most likely he's just an out of shape redneck fud or as stated earlier a troll.

>>33149967
Knife fighting is a meme. If two people of equal resolution are attacking each other with knives, it's just about luck and who swings where first. Most likely they'll grapple and stab each other repeatedly, and the only difference will be who bleeds out first.

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>>33149664

Point taken.

>>33149334
Take a club like that, get some threaded inserts and then thread your square headed bolts in there with some high strength thread locker

>>33149940
>Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

>>33149984
exactly, the purpose of a knife being concealable and small should be imployedin a manner that benefits its advantage.

Cathcing a person off guard with one and providing a lethal wound should be the main priority, then it becomes a determination of pressing the advantage to finish the job or retreating to let them slowly die to prevent yourself in any further danger.

The act of getting in a "knife fight" on equal terms means you've done everything else incorrectly and have shown incompetence with the proper usage of the weapon.

>>33149639
You are so fucking stupid.

>>33149317
Double edged boot knife.

>>33149923
But they are bad weapon unlike plate armor.

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>>33149317
A trench shotgun with a bayonet.

>no one has ever managed to parry its swing or walk away after being hit with one.

I call bullshit.

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>>33150198
I remember at my high school, there was a test for anybody who bought new steel-capped boots, to see if they could kick off the reinforced doorknob (sort of like pic related) to this one particular utilities cupboard. It probably got kicked off once or twice a semester.

Now imagine if that was your head.

>>33149696
>noose around your neck in close quarters.

You just ain't doin' it right, son.

>>33150223
Take a baseball bat and hit it your head with it. Now hammer nails into it and repeat. Report results.

>>33150252
No, I'm not. Walk into your toilet room or broom closet, and try maneuvering and swinging your rifle around. You now got the simulation of a trench/tunnel/bunker environment. And you can't do a thing it it with your big, slow, heavy cumbersome rifle.

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>>33149940
>not clubbing or stabbing your enemies to death

Also calm your tits. A bike and a car are mutually exclusive in terms of exercise, and a book and a dvd are mutually exclusive in terms of sitting back and reading. A gun and a club are not mutually exclusive in terms of beating/stabbing the shit out of people.

>>33150303
>A bike and a car are mutually exclusive in terms of exercise
Yabba dabba do, motherfucker.

>>33150297
>slow, heavy cumbersome rifle

A Mk3 Enfield weighs 8 3/4 lbs. A Mosin Nagant weighs roughly 9. A Springfield weighs 8.7 lbs. A Mauser K-98 weighs roughly 9 lbs. A Winchester Model 1897 weighs 8 lbs.

If you can't handle that weight with both hands, you are one weak ass shit.

>maneuvering and swinging your rifle around.

You don't have to swing it like a bat. You can thrust your stock, you can thrust the bayonet, you can hold the gun at half length.

If I had a club, I would be at disadvantage all the way until the point at which I was up in the person face, which more likely than not (unless I jumped on top of the person or was partaking in a night raid) I would get shot/stabbed.

>>33150261
Report:

Didn't go through with it. Participant said he didn't want to develop the IQ equal of that of the person who suggested this experiment.

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>>33150339
>not buying a giant moth or a pterodactyl to fly around in style

Go high, motherfucker.

>>33149973
>I'm also not sure about your axe idea. You still can't thrust it, much like a club
The type of axe I mentioned flare out both at the top and bottom, so they can be used for hooking and thrusting/poking.
And they won't get stuck because the head is really wide and thin, meant for very forceful slashing rather than chopping like a typical heavy tool axe meant for wood.

Anyway, the point was that the "best" close quarters weapon depends entirely on context.

>>33149639
I'm sure full auto is fine with pistol caliber stuff, but the advantage is likely overstated for intermediate and above.

Everyone likes to imagine a scenario in which getting more lead out as fast as possible in a matter of a couple seconds could mean life or death, I have no idea about that sort of thing.

>>33149346
and when you run out of ammo?

>>33149334
I buy studs for my battlejackets here: https://www.studsandspikes.com/

I've gotten cut up a few times in moshpits from people's spikes, but I don't think they are the strongest

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>>33149425
Godfuckingdamnit

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>>33149317

>>33149425
Best movie 2016

>>33149317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIGIBJeRfnQ
I'll just leave this here.

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a flail
more specifically something like a weighted slungshot
easy deniability, cheap and relatively easy to make at home, mostly non-lethal so won't land you in jail for fucking someone up too much, greater reach than a knife, almost the same as a club but more concealable

prove me wrong

>>33149317
>No hand protection
>No sharp edge
>Studs not sharp enough to deter grabs/pushes
>Poor range
>Heavy pain in the arse to lug around
Enjoy getting some officer's 1897 infantry sword straight in the gut. Or, as other posters have noted, shot assaulting a prepared position in the trench.

>>33151243
it could swing back and hit you.

>>33149899
>They need training to use one.

They who? If you cant swing a sword, youre descended from peasants.

>And it was more so used with a shield

Because it has no handguard, add one and congrats, you have an arming sword.

>>33152647
>youre descended from peasants.
So... The vast majority of people?

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>>33149317
Somebody hasn't read All Quiet on the Western Front

>>33149782
>there's nothing avoidable about a fast club swing

Lol ok

>>33152712
I recall a scene in the movie I watched in HS where someone told a new recruit that their bayonet would get him tortured if he was captured with it on his rifle
Is that true?

>>33153330
That was mostly just propaganda, but if you hear it once, you probably won't want to take your chances

>>33153330

That's probably a rumor sprung from the rumor that anyone captured with a sawback knife would get their fingers / toes chopped off with it. As far as I know the only people in real danger of getting killed in a purposefully terrible way are machine gunners and snipers. I'm sure a few particularly vicious trench raiders died awful deaths but it wasn't an expected part of capture like for a machine gunner.

>>33153399
Oh yeah I heard something about the sawback knife thing
Funny because they were only added to be a utility tool to help clear saplings and brush

Of course don't forget that one bit about how the Germans were going to execute any American found with a trench gun or shells to a trench gun.

>>33153399
>>33153444
Pretty sure it was because they were first issued to combat miners who would tunnel under the enemy positions and blow them to fucking hell.

>>33150251
Why are the screws on the outside? doesn't that defeat the purpose.

>>33153618
They're supposed to make little points that cause extra damage. Getting hit with a spiked object hurts more that getting hit with a smooth one.

>>33153618
That particular one is just to stop people prising or jimmying the bolt across. There are a variety of screws and nuts that are designed not to be removed or removable though, either permanently or temporarily.

>>33149317
Feldspaten

Can be used as to
Shield
Parrying
Club
Slash
Thrust

Pretty much the best overall weapon for WW1 trench raid

>>33151243
the risk is pretty high
the follow-through on a missed swing is more of an issue because you have you account for the semi-detached part
you can totally still kill someone with it, so your legal defense isn't that great
to get a better reach you'll need to either make the stiff part longer (lessening the point of it being a flail at all) or make the rope or chain longer (meaning you have to account for an even greater swing and all its dynamics)

and to top it all off, if you lose, it'll be an epic flail

>>33149687
Bayonets on turn-of-the-century bolt action rifles were meant for assaults on open ground and square formations against cavalry. In WW1, they were unwieldy, and often got stuck in they target and/or snapped.

>>33152712
>>33153794

Came here to say this. It was favored by WW1 and WW2 shock troops, so I guess it was pretty good, as they said, it gives you more range than a knife, can parry, and doesn't get stuck like a bayonet. Plus, it's an useful tool.

>>33153330
The ones who sanded the back of their bayonets to be saw-toothed were tortured, yes. Although it was proved afterwards that it actually made the bayonet worse, as it could get stuck easily.

>>33153399
>machine gunners and snipers

why?

>>33151243
Anyone have pics of the pine apple grenade flail.

I'm making one and I want to compare to the pic that inspired me.

>>33149317

Really? inb4 katana?

Katana.

>>33149317
>What is the ultimate close combat melee weapon?

Submachinegun, short barrelled rifle or short barrelled shotgun. Absolute end of discussion.

>>33150261

Take a shotgun and shoot yourself in the face with it. Report back with your findings.

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>>33149317

Chainsaw.

>>33155224
Well, if you just had your day ruining by Hans Shootzetommy perforating your best pals head after he popped his head out, because Fritz Bangbangstien stopped shooting for once in his Goddamn life, you'd be in a bad mood too.

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>>33149317
Sharpened shovel

>>33149334
>all serious answers to this except for one

I'm sorry dude

>>33149915
>Armor is a weapon

Ok sweden you keep thinking that

>>33149761
would you stop shitposting your bayonet memes and kill yourself with one already?

Shovel is god

https://youtu.be/6ryyAenmzHM

Kilij

>>33158143
correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikVMXhcjbYc

>>33149491
Pics?, interest is peaked and how you bought or made it.

>>33153650
Think he was talking about the door...

>>33149595
>literally debating against historic fact
If historic fact means "what 2 whole guys said" then yeah. Peoples' mileage varied. Was it perfect? No. Was it even the best tool for the job? No. Was it "worse than nothing"? Absolutely not. If you can fit in a trench then you can fit your rifle in there with you. If you can turn around, you can turn around with your rifle. We don't live on a planet where rifles must be perpendicular to the human body at all times.

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>>33149317
The most effective melee weapon is Tyrone the BBC
>5lbs of Osage and bedliner

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>>33159727

>>33149444
Yes because bludgeoning somebody to death is quiet. /v/ plz go.

>>33160716
compared to a fucking gunshot it is
a solid club to the head will at the very least give you a major concussion friend

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>>33158187

If you're still in the thread. Here is mine. In order to make it more effective I want to put some baseball bat grip on it. The woods pretty slippery.

>>33160716

Infinitely more than shooting someone. You stupid summer fag "smart" ass underage teeny.

Of course though, you know better than the people who would arm themselves with one's for SILENT RAIDS in WW1.

Also, if there's a sentry and you whack him behind the head with one he'll die 99% of the time. And I'm pretty sure if he doesn't die it will knock him out without a single scream or reaction since you're crushing through brain nearly instantly.

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>>33149874

Also: Smatchet.

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>>33155694

Here ya go broseph.

>>33150769
>I'm sure full auto is fine with pistol caliber stuff, but the advantage is likely overstated for intermediate and above.

It's mainly for close-quarters rock-and-roll. Angular errors are multiplied by distance, so recoil that makes your patterns piss useless wide at distance will still shrek some guy at 20 feet. Even with .308 or something big.

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>>33150303
>When the Spaniard observes our superior posture in the face of a bayonet charge, they will certainly loose heart, thus giving us the tactical advantage

>>33150303
>A gun and a club are not mutually exclusive in terms of beating/stabbing the shit out of people.

try beating somebody with a Webley/Luger and see of that is more or less effective than beating somebody with>>33149317

>>33162210
>The woods pretty slippery.
is this an original or a repro?

>>33158950
There are TONS of accounts how the long standard rifle with bayonet was a bad weapon for trench combat and I dare you to find just a single one to the contrary. I don't think you realize just how long and awkward these things were.
Yeah, it's not worse than nothing, if only because you can file down the bayonet into a dagger (which people did). That's called hyperbole. Stop being an autist and an asshat.

>>33149687
>It's worse than nothing in close quarters. What is a bayonet.
the words of Remarque from Im Westen nicht Neues

"But the bayonet has practically lost its importance. It is usually the fashion now to charge with bombs and spades only. The sharpened spade is a more handy and many-sided weapon; not only can it be used for jabbing a man under the chin, but it is much better for striking with because of its greater weight; and if one hits between the neck and shoulder it easily cleaves as far down as the chest" (Remarque 104).

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Get on my level, scrubs.

>Walking down dark alley
>Some nigger tries to mug me
>Haven't you heard the news today?
>Nigger stands there for a moment, confused by what I just said
>Gives me enough time to fold my newspaper eight times
>Before he knows what's up I already cracked his skull
Thank god for print media.

>>33149317
.410 revolver with 000 buckshot.

>>33155731
A katana would be way too long for trench use.
If you want to keep being a weeb, a wakizashi would be far better suited for such tight quarters, or hell, even a tanto.

>>33149491
i thought the general teaching was to stab through the side of the throat and punch forward

>>33149317

Large dagger/short sword