Do battle rifles have a place as a main infantry weapon on the

>>33147010
I'm not carrying that shit.

Specialized roles

Volume of fire is the primary producer of small arms casualties, and small arms are already a negligible percentile of casualties inflicted in war

You want to cary more ammo and be able to shoot more of that ammo quickly and accurately, and modern rifles in Small Caliber, High Velocity cartridges do that way better than battle rifles do.

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>mfw FREE is in red

Anyways, no, battle rifles have been phased out with good reason. Contrary to popular belief not for carry weight or rate of fire, but rather cost. Nearly three times as much metal in every bullet, nearly twice the powder, one and a half times the brass, the increased weight of each cartridge in respect to shipping, and the increased production cost of the rifles (including magazines) themselves.
Now all this cost would be very well justified if your average 25 ASVAB shmuck on the ground was actually doing a lot of killing, but really that's not their job anymore. In the translated words of Papa K "5.45x39mm was a necessary mistake to adapt to modern infantry tactics." The same goes for the 5.56 it was based on.

>>33147010
Not in a regular military.
For explanation see >>33148506

However for guerilla warfare and hit and run tactics where being able to make a mag or two go a long ways in terms of reaching out and killing someone through a bit of brick or a window or something and then ditching like a motherfucker, then yes.
They actually are even possibly superior.

>>33147010
Absolutely, but not with 22" barrels.

If they cut them down to between 4-10", then they would be much more manoeuvrable, and much better suited to fast-paced modern CQB.

>>33147010
Accuratized ones serving as DMRs have a role.

Even then though they really only shine past 600 meters or so when you start seeing 5.56mm velocity and fragmentation go down. Closer than that and an accuritized 20 inch barrel 5.56mm rifle with a good scope is a better DMR IMO.

The internet makes too much of "muh barrier penetration" with 5.56 vs .308. In my own experience stuff like 4 foot wide berms and heavy buildings stopping 5.56mm wouldn't be penetrated by .308/7.62 anyway. If a military wants to penetrate that shit, well that's what 40mm and shoulder fire weapons are for.

>>33149674
>past 600 meters or so when you start seeing 5.56mm velocity and fragmentation go down.
Depends on barrel length, obviously, shit like the M4 is worthless at 250.
I can't believe someone thought that was a good idea.

>>33149080
>Muh gorilla warfare

How many people have any training, experience, or even dedicated academic sourcing for talking about this subject here? It feels like 99% of gorilla warfare talk online is conjecture being spouted from ignorance and a need for mouth running.

>>33149615
>4 inch barrel FAL
I too wish to set my enemies on fire

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>>33149690

>>33149615
is modern cqb a thing in battles where people can avoid it? though modern house fighting was fuck going in there chuck a few grenades in.

>>33149080
It seems if you're able to train highly disciplined insurgents, battle rifles would be a great tool because of their greater effective range over most militaries' assault rifle. All you'd need to do is first identify the designated marksmen, nail them, then you could easily pin down regular soldiers.

>until the airstrike, that is...

Also, inb4
>insurgents
>highly disciplined

>>33149690
Depending on barrel length, of course. Tbqh, an M4 with M855A1 is fine at 500 meters. Beyond that distance, honestly is really beyond the realm of some guy with an Aimpoint hitting a defined target in combat conditions. At that distance troops are going to be more concerned with maneuvering (either toward or away from fire). Leave those kills to DMs and support weapons. Infantry weapons support movement and closing to and engaging the enemy by taking ground- which I think the M4 works better for.

A dedicated marksmen 20 inch 5.56mm rifle is going to be too cumbersome for service use, but put 3-5 them in a platoon as part of a DM section or something and give them high magnification glass and you've got DMs able to reach out and still use line ammo.

t.Afghan vet

>>33147010
Does anyone have the mosin version of this?

>>33149713
Absolutely happens. Closing and assaulting an enemy position is the fundamental goal of infantry movement.

Also to be specific to counter-insurgency, conducting raids is done commonly to net prisoners, heavy weapons, and material caches.

If the combat is in the open and both sides lack ability to maneuver and/or the insurgents are pinned in place and the US has support fire, of course they use it. It's unsporting, but that's war.

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>>33149767

>>33149716
There are so many steps here that just kind of get glossed over and made to seem so easy.

Enjoy getting pinned by M240s, zeroed in on with Ravens, and then maneuvered on by the carbine carrying infantry you can't escape because of the Ravens.

>>33149810
>There are so many steps here that just kind of get glossed over
No shit, this is an online imageboard, not a lecture at a military academy.

>and made to seem so easy.
Apart from the implied death and lack of training...

>>33149832
Sorry man, I've got a lot of built up frustration from living in Bubba central and listening to a lot of never-military Bubba puesdo-militia types describe in retarded and ignorant detail how to run an insurgency.

>>33149701
Sub machine guns would be the optimal gorilla warfare weapon in that most of these small conflicts involve walking up on soldiers/polic, mag dumping and running away, not real force on force contact.

>>33150083
I guess it depends on the environment. Subguns/sbrs would be ideal in an urban environment when you want concealability and being able to get in close. But I get the point behind using battle rifles if its a rural or wilderness environment and has large open spaces and clear lines of sight.

>>33147010
Not really. Rifles, in general, are for CQB. In open terrain it's all about the machine guns, baby.

>>33147010
Absolutely, as long as your infantry is not full of women and kids.

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>>33147010
Nope. The FAL should have been in an intermediate cartridge like it was designed for, and battle rifles should have been relegated to DMR roles and the dustbin where they belong following WWII. The only reason full power cartridges were relevant outside of DMRs and GPMGs in the Cold War Era was because the Fudds in US Ordnance forced them on everyone else in NATO.

The extra power simply isn't needed at realistic ranges, and infantry benefit far more from rapid training (due to reduced recoil) and higher carrying capacity than a bit of extra power.

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>>33147010

friendly reminder that the us military should have adopted the AR-10

>>33152096

>rifles
>cqb

>>33152173
The AR10 is used by some US military.

>>33152221

i mean as the main infantry rifle to replace the AR-15/M16/M4

>>33152203
carbines, whatever. you know what I mean you hairsplitting little shit

>>33152231
Does it really do anything the M14 doesnt already?

>>33152231
But 15 is more than 10, therefore AR-15 is better. That's how it works, duh.

>>33152254
It's lighter, more accurate and what they call ar10s these days,(not the originals) is really just a scaled up ar15 so your average grunt already understands the basic aspects of operations, cleaning, and handling.

>>33152254

it doesnt weigh 9000 metric tons and the action is sealed up and is more reliable than the M14.

>>33152250
why would you use anything that fires a rifle cartridge in a cqb setting? thats the point of the sub machine gun.

>>33152321
because, my good dude, modern oper8ing consists of 2 possible steps: 1. walking to a building, and 2. going into the building, and sometimes you get shot at during step 1

>>33152372

so why not use a sub gun if its lighter and more compact etc than a rifle?

>>33152321
>Using a pistol cartridge when you can use an intermediate cartridge
Handgun rounds suck

>>33152389
better range and penetration, plus ammo compatibility with the machine guns. carbines are a much more versatile weapon in general. Subguns are pretty niche and don't have much of a military application. they're great for counterterrorism though.

For mainline military probably not.
For forces without air support or artillery on tap that have to engage at longer ranges, maybe.

>>33152395
Submassault gun?

>>33149789
GAAYYY

>>33152541

thats called a p90

>>33149749
And now they have the EPR rounds and those are just as effective out of the M4 because they bust in half when they hit someone.

>>33152541
>>33152395
>>33152321
B O D Y A R M O R
holy fuck its the 21st century

I mean it already takes 3 to put down jihadi george, if he's got a vest and you're pumping 9x19 into him he's not gonna stop unless you hit something that aint protected.

He's gonna get his 72 virgins and he knows he's toast so he's not gonna cry about it. Its all about stopping power and with a subgun all you're stopping is the bullets.

>>33147079
>Volume of fire
A nice euphemism for spray and pray.

>>33155049
Found the WW1 officer.

Volume of fire to keep the enemy inside their cover and unable to fire and maneuver themselves is the basic building block of professional infantry tactics since basically modern small arms.

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>>33149615
>4" barrel FAL
Nigger that's a flamethrower

>>33147010
>Do battle rifles have a place as a main infantry weapon on the modern battlefield, or are they only suited to specialized roles?

Do you know how to use a search engine?

>>33155228
Yes but he wants to chat about it. You on the other hand are here to troll. And it's some pretty worn-out shit you're using edgemaster.

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Why is /k/ set on the br concept being dead? I foresee a future where armor is extremely common and heavy hitting rounds may be more necessary.

>>33155641
Then you are naive.

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>>33155647
Is this really your best attempt to prove armor is just a fad?

I don't want to hear this baby I can't carry 500 rounds of .22 ratshot on me if it's a real 7.62 NATO gun. I doubt it would happen any time soon but what's stopping cheaper and more effective armor from making low caliber 5.56 and 5.45 obsolete against a force of enemies with standard armor. You NEED something bigger at that point, shooting glorified .22s won't do it anymore.

>>33149810
Actually, the point was that, like a sniper (no, not exactly but close enough) a small number of rounds would be fired (in the realm of about four maybe five) and then the one or two people shooting would run like like a fat kid on taco Tuesday.

Nobody would be staying long enough nor shooting enough rounds for SAWs to get a rough idea of their position.
Think >>33150083 but long range.

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>>33155641

Most 7.62 isn't going to do any better than 5.56 against armor, owing to its lower velocity. You'd need something like the the SLAP rounds (moving at 4000+ fps) to punch through. Even then, those would only work at relatively close range, since the velocity will fall off fast.

>>33155647
Are you retarded? The only reason armor isn't common in modern military settings bilaterally is because nobody's fighting symmetrical wars

>>33156785
This.

There's little reason to wear >>33155738 when Hadjis don't fucking aim and like to use IEDs.

But this is all shit I have never done so I am probably wrong.

>>33156811
>IEDs
>little reason to wear armor

Yeah I can you've never done this.

>>33149789
Much obliged brother anon!