G36 Scandal. Does anyone actually believe the whole scandal

>>33119991

G36 is fine if it's made to spec. Some of the G36's sold the Bundwesher where made with substandard polymer.

>>33119991
A lot of guns have early models that have glaring issues, but usually it gets fixed in later models or modifications. Some notable examples are nearly every gun in existence.

>>33119991
Had a buddy stationed in Germany for awhile who got to try one out. He always sung its praise over the m4. I know it's anecdotal, but it's all I got.

>>33121293

Forgot link:

http://augengeradeaus.net/2015/04/weiter-streit-ums-g36-billigerer-kunststoff-zugemischt/

Basically the polymer in the G36 was supposed to be a very specific polyamide mix (nylon) but they cut in polyethylene (milk jug plastic) into the mix somewhere along the way. The G36's supplied to the Bundwesher during evaluation and units exported to the US use the right version.

>>33119991
Other countries had higher specs than some of the German rifles.

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Sometimes you end up getting bad plastic. One of polymer's many tradeoffs.

XM8 when

>>33119991
The carrying handle optic is pretty shit and it's pretty damn long, that's about it really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbTyFloelc

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>>33121548
>tfw that guy walking around without ear pro

>>33119991

I think it was just a ploy for HK to sell more weapons to the mil. Pretty sure they're trying to play themselves.

I'm just waiting for parts kits someday.

>>33121413

Heard this from a friend as well.

>>33121422
First diesel and now rifles. The krauts can't do anything right!

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>>33119991
>Der Spiegel picks up on a rumor, where G36 loses accuracy
>Leyen jumps on that shit quick to boost herself
>It turns out it was an ammo issue
>Leyen still blames polymer and does her own testing (results have never actually been seen), only reports which obviously are going to be written in her favor
>Leyen halts orders of G36 and calls for a replacement in 2020
>Nobody can replicate the result, no soldiers have ever complained about it, and no other country has this issue
>HK puts out HK433 for the coming bid
Rip G36, a real shame honestly.

>>33121548
>funktion oB
it may not have jammed, but the accuracy must be in the gutter, right?

>>33121755
There were credible reports before vdL became MoD.

>>33119991
>Polymer trunnion
>Polymer receiver (insulating the action and barrel)
>Thin barrel
>Faulty polymer mixture
There's plenty explanations for the problem (and for different experiences among different users). I think it likely that at least some of it was justified.

The alternative is that there was an intrigue against HK in the ministry, which doesn't make much sense considering HK delivers all their small arms and likely will continue to do so.
Or, of course, von der Leyen stirred it up somehow. I don't believe it either, she had other focuses (women and miniorities and stuff- yeah, she's a terrible choice), doesn't care for anything actually military and hasn't benefitted from the whole thing anyway. And if there was a wish to switch the rifles, there's plenty of reasons to be found, the G36 is an old rifle after all. It just doesn't make sense.

Tl, dr: German politics makes the intrigue theory unlikely. G36 construction makes SOME problem possible.

>>33121755
This
Gun was sent back for testing and HK didn't find any problem with accuracy in humid enviroment.

>>33124429
forgot the link
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/10/14/hk-vindicated-no-problems-found-with-g36/

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>>33119991
>G36 Scandal.

Hello.
Forgive me for playing an expert on this one, but please give me a benefit of doubt.
I have monitored this issue closely, and It fits the pattern.

Here is my "theory":
The G36 Scandal was orchestrated and had one purpose:
To give German Army a new weapon, and to give a lot of tax payers money to German Industry.

First we have this affair. That G36 melts and stuff.
"Affair" is started by a woman official, who knows nothing about guns. Germans themselves bitch about her. I remember the conversations.

Than, (now) suddenly out of nowhere, german industry proposes a new rifle, based on the reliable HK416, and it's gona be better etc.

I'm and old fuck, I remember how G36 was introduced in the first place, how the company was dragged out from the gutter after they drenched millions into development of G11, and then the cold war ended and HK got sold to Brits for a while.

They than hired a young manager, he decided "fuck futurism" and HK quickly designed simple rifle based on good old reliable mechanisms - G36. And then MP7 that follows the same feeding principle, because PDW was a thing at that time, and they wanted a peace of the cake.

And they won, HK survived, made bbillions, they bought it off from the brits, and now the history repeats itself.

Take my rant as you will, Im writing from my own memory, and Im chilling with beer now.

Considering the other G36 used by other countries do not have that problem (Spain, Latvia), I think it's specifically the bundeswehr's G36 that was intentionally made shitty to save cost.

>>33121755
Eh, we're gonna get some new G36KA4M1s this year, I believe

>>33124470
>G36KA4M1
that's one pretty long name

>>33124478
They're Germans, they can't help it

>>33119991
>Uschi finds out that if you fire three+ mags without a pause the gun gets hot and inaccurate
>How can that be,
>soldiers tells her that this isn't what you do with an assault rifle
>H&K tells her that the specification from the ministry didn't mention this scenario
>Uschi sues H&K
>Gets blown out in court
>Buys a new weapon anyway, probably from H&K again
Result: H&K makes more money, Uschi can pretend that she puts BW back on track, millions of cost even before they even started buying the new gun and a tarnished reputation of H&K and BW

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>>33119991
I for one, welcome its replacement

>>33124510
G36 in a new dress, or...?

>>33124515
>G36 in a new dress, or...?

HK416 in a new dress, but yes. Pretty much.

>>33119991
>Has no army
>Still has military industrial complex that wastes massive amounts of taxpayer money
Is there any worse place to live than Germany?

>>33124515
It's supposed to be a middle ground between the G36 and the HK416

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>>33124454
I'd say there might have been some cheaping out on the Bundeswehr side regarding the plastic. I mean the big bad commies were gone, the G11 scrapped and you had to somewhat cheaply replace the G3 with something modern in the current NATO caliber. They probably thought they could cut corners, since they wouldn't be doing anything serious with those rifles anytime soon. Also other countries like Spain who produce licensed copies with the original specs don't have all these problems.

g36 parts kits when? surely theres an easier way than a full plastic welded SL8 build.

>>33119991
Yeah, all those countries that adopted the G36? Show rifles for show units that don't ever really fight anybody. The melting G36 trunnions were old news, old /k hands might remember Meplat posting pictures of a few melted trunnions from the XM8 project. German government didn't care, and only started to care after a couple of German units wound up in real contacts against jihadis and some of their rifles went from ~5 MOA to not even Minute of Man.

>>33121422
>a very specific polyamide mix (nylon)
>they cut in polyethylene (milk jug plastic)
Somehow I am not surprised. I bet someone along the line went "eh, plastic is plastic, we can go cheaper"

>>33121755
>It turns out it was an ammo issue
What was the ammo issue? Aren't military guns made to shoot almost anything in a pinch?

>>33124620
>Aren't military guns made to shoot almost anything in a pinch?

Western militaries have long stopped the doctrine of trying to use the enemy's captured ammo. The only country still potentially doing this is Finland.

There's just too much danger in using ammo from an unverified source, so no. All western militaries assume they will be using at least NATO approved ammo, if not their own stuff.

I'm in no way an expert but I distinctly remember the scandal happening within 2 months of a boatload of G36's getting shipped to the Kurds. I saw a connection there but now that I'm reading
>>33119991
>>33121755
>>33124423
>>33124454
I guess my theory was more coincidence.

Anyway politics shitting on gun development is nothing new.

>>33124625
Well you'd think they'd at least be able to run each others' ammo.

But that doesn't answer the question though. What was wrong with the ammo? Why didn't other guns present with the same issues?

>>33124663

I don't have a link, but I think it had something to do with a batch of ammunition's jacket being too thin.