>MacArthur was a good general >Abandons Army in the Philippines

he wanted to take the whole thing and then nuke the border to keep the Chinese out

He was a good goy
So the history books write him as a good general

Also got the bomber fleet destroyed on the ground

>>33085603
Chinks had already said they were joining before he got to the border

>>33085656
>MacArthur wanted to start WWIII
>this makes him a good general

>>33085603
Erwin Rommel had just as big if not bigger disasters. Is he a bad general?

>>33085712
He's called a hero for starting & lengthening WW2
Nuking the chinese wouldn't start WW3 either

>>33085656
better than the outcome we have now we should have invaded the entire commie bloc

>>33085722
I think many would argue that yes, in the strategic sense he was a pretty bad general by overextending beyond his supply. Tactically proficient, sure. But in terms of grand strategy he was lacking.

>>33085757
How can he be tactically proficient if he's surprised by millions of chinks

>>33085757
My point is more that literally ever general fucks up even more when we look farther back in time

>>33085775
I'm saying it can be argued that Rommel is a bad general, even though he's come down as one of the greats.

I N C H O N
N
C
H
O
N

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>THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED HOLY FUCK

>>33085712
>nuking a non-nuclear asian state with no real international cloud
>WWIII
LOL

>>33085787
Their is no good or bad general they all fuck up

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>>33085800
To think they had to fucking do this over a single dirt road with hills surrounding them. It's the dream scenario for an ambush and pincer movements.

MacArthur's beach landings were masterful

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>>33085819
>Their is no good or bad general

>>33085849
Name a "good general" and I can find where they royally fucked up

>>33085870
Yi sun shin

>>33085870
Subutai

>>33085800
Nigger, look at the terrain on the commies' western approach.

The thought process was "we, going south on this road, will beat any attempts at encirclement from the west."

And they did. As per the graphic you uploaded. I'm no fan of macarthur, but he did ok at chosin.

>>33085819
So you're saying all generals are equal in their abilities? Because if they aren't, then some generals are good relative to other generals.

>>33085870
Watch out, genius military strategist in our midst.

>>33085603
>Abandons Army in the Philippines to a death march in WWII

It happens to the best. Sometimes you are out flanked, out numbered and have little to no logistical supply. In those circumstances retreating with as many forces as you can is always the right option.

>Decides to poke China with a stick by attempting to destory their ally and reach their border

And? if he had not poked China, North and south would not only still be separte countries, the north would control even more of korea.

Second, I'm not sure you realize how disastrous the korean war was for communist China. They invaded with a veteran army of 1.25 million soldiers, and by the end of the war had 0.45million dead, 1.4million crippled unable to return to war. An astute observer will notice that they lost more dead and crippled then troops that they sent at the beginning of the war. Quite literally the PLA lost their entire veteran Northern army and had to reconstitute it with untrained peasants. The loses were so bad that the PLA generals openly and publicly criticized Mao!

These loses are a large part of the PLA never invaded Taiwan. Simply put, they were bled white by the korean war, and only managed to regain sufficient strength rather recently. Sounds like Macarthur did a great job beating them up.

>>33085603
B-but muh carriers!

>>33085833
Luckily they had air cover and fire superiority. They removed way more Chicoms than they lost.

>>33085994
>These loses are a large part of the PLA never invaded Taiwan.
The Seventh Fleet squatting in the strait shortly after the start of the Korean War forced Mao to cancel the effort to destroy the Nationalists. It also convinced many that the appropriate response would be to enter the Korean conflict, since everyone knew they could only beat American forces on land.

Also, it's extremely important to note that Chinese objectives were just as fluid as the UN's. Both sides just wanted whatever they could get away with at the moment, whether it was unification or not falling into the sea, and that lack of coherence makes it hard to say anything except that Kim a shit.

>tfw vietnamese
>tfw this conflict is why Westmoreland didn't roll back the DMZ to Hue

On the bright side I get to live in America and go to med school I guess.

>>33085744
and promptly loses western europe and drag the world into another decade long war?

I got to hand it to k/ for having a high concentration of retards who should be euthanized immediately.

>>33085656
yeah, he wanted to do that...AFTER HE SAID THE CHINESE WOULD NOT INTERVENE. Let's be honest here, Douglas MacArthur is a fucking moron.

You know how many nurses he condemned to the death march because he wanted his furnitures on the last boats leaving the Philippines? He's a fucking disgrace, and should have been shot for gross incompetence.

>>33088391
Don't forget the Chinese atom bomb.

>>33085743
>Nuking the chinese wouldn't start WW3 either
you realize the Chinese were under the EXPLICIT protection of the soviet nuclear umbrella at the time, right?

>>33085939
>he did ok at chosin.
are you fucking retarded?

>>33085870
Marshall

>>33085994
>North and south would not only still be separte countries, the north would control even more of korea.
jesus, this fucking American level public education...

You realize the DPRK at the time of the Chinese intervention had essentially NO fighting power left, right? Like, none.

>they invaded with a veteran army of 1.25 million soldiers
Like hell they did. You think a poorly mechanized force can move THAT many troops into a theater at once? If you meant to say that the PVA ROTATED 1.25 million into the Korean theater for the entire duration of the war, that would be more appropriate, but you're a dumb fuck, so...shut the fuck up.

>An astute observer
you're a fucking dumbass.

>These loses are a large part of the PLA never invaded Taiwan.
WHAT THE FUCK? it's called the 7TH FLEET. it's called KADENA AND YOKOHAMA.

Do you know what the Kinmen and Matsu islands are?

Seriously, you certainly talk alot for someone so lacking in knowledge and depth, and I would suggest that you stop broaching on topics you have no business broaching on.

Fag.

>>33085603
How has nobody mentioned his "muh .30-06" rant that kept the Garand from becoming truly revolutionary?

>>33085870
>Hamilcar
>Hannibal
>Napoleon

>>33088581
>1950
>Soviet Nuclear Umbrella
Anon, no. Soviet nuclear capability was virtually nonexistent and even in the most limited capacity was regional at best until the late fifties.

The Chinese had actually decided to intervene before MacArthur "provoked" them. Mao was pushing the Soviets to approve an intervention right as the war broke out.

>>33088855
that was in case the war escalated to the Chinese border.

>>33088850
Sure, that's what you think now. But the world viewed The Bomb very differently back in the 50s.

>>33088667
>You realize the DPRK at the time of the Chinese intervention had essentially NO fighting power left, right? Like, none.
MacArthur provoked China by moving past the 38th parallel. So pray tell how the UN would have gotten rid of North Korea without ever passing he 38th?

>Like hell they did. You think a poorly mechanized force can move THAT many troops into a theater at once? If you meant to say that the PVA ROTATED 1.25 million into the Korean theater for the entire duration of the war, that would be more appropriate, but you're a dumb fuck, so...shut the fuck up.
Nice strawman, I never said they all moved in at once; however, they had all most of the 1.25million in Theater before the invasion thanks to their massing at the NK border. This of course uses the defines theater as not just North Korea, but also the areas of Northern China right across the border. Apparently you think troop bases literally a few hundred meters from the UN lines don't count as troops in theater because they are technically in China.

Further, since you cannot seem to add as the PLA had to rotate at least 1.85million soldiers through Korea, because they had 0.45 million dead and 1.4million crippled.

>An astute observer
Read: not you, as you seem to be incapable of parsing simple sentences, adding, or even reading what has been written rather than what you think has been written.

>WHAT THE FUCK? it's called the 7TH FLEET. it's called KADENA AND YOKOHAMA.
>Do you know what the Kinmen and Matsu islands are?
Now to show you actually know what you are talking about tell me about the Second Taiwan strait crises.

Since you cannot, the second taiwan strait crises was in 1958 when the PLA massed troops opposite of Taiwan started bombarding Kinmen and threatened to invade.The US reinforced the 7th to back up the mutual defense pact signed in 1954 and after a few weeks. Notice how a mutual defense pact didn't exist until one year after the Korean war.

>>33085807
They were under soviet number umbrella protection.

>>33089279
Nuclear*

>>33088667

> Like hell they did. You think a poorly mechanized force can move THAT many troops into a theater at once? If you meant to say that the PVA ROTATED 1.25 million into the Korean theater for the entire duration of the war, that would be more appropriate, but you're a dumb fuck, so...shut the fuck up.

The Chinese actually can because their divisions travel incredibly light.

To sustain an average US division, it took roughly 1200 tons of supplies/week.

A Chinese division (although considerably smaller at 9,500 men to the American's 13,500 or so) used about 80-100 tons of supplies a week. Each soldier carried a week's worth of rice on his body, his rifle, and ammo. Besides a handful of 75mm field guns, there was no heavy equipment that could not be carried by man.

The disadvantage is that Chinese divisions have very little in the way of heavy firepower, and their operation tempo was dictated by the amount of food and ammo an individual soldier could carry, which was about enough for 7-10 days. After that, the whole division has to retreat to a supply depot because the American air interdiction meant that supplies close to the front could not be moved by anything except man/donkey at night.

Ridgway took advantage of this by timing his attacks with the Chinese operational cycle, since his own heavily mechanized units could sustain much longer operations than the Chinese.

>>33089266
You are a special kind of stupid.

>>33088561
Fuck that, the only reason we shouldn't have instantly started fighting USSR is because they might get nukes

>>33089488
Chosin was about 300k PVA. PVA deployment at the start of the war was rushed, and they didn't have winter equipment and heavy artillery was stick in manchuria. Chinas internal logistics at the time could not have supported over a million combatants close to the theater.

>>33088850
Well, If I recall, the soviets threatened to use nukes in response to any nuclear attacks on China. It doesn't matter how limited their abilities were, it put them under their umbrella, and the option to nuke china off the table.

>>33089537

They could specifically in Korea, because Manchuria was the most heavily industrialized part of China due to the Japanese occupation. Since Japan built the infrastructure in both Manchuria and North Korea, the train tracks had the same gauge.

>>33089266
https://www.amazon.com/Friends-Enemies-United-1948-1972-America/dp/0804719578
Please buy and read this book before you open your faggot mouth again.

>>33085743
>MacArthur
>Starting WWII
I'm sorry, what?

>>33088786
Never heard of that, please explain.

>>33085603
MacArthur was a vainglorious shit with a god complex. Every action he took was calculated to enhance his personal reputation, even at the expense of his men.

His Medal of Honor was completely undeserved and should be revoked.

>When you get pushed back to the 38th parallel by poorly equipped infantry

>>33085603
He abandoned the Marines too. There's a reason he got shitcanned.

In Nazi Germany or Russia he would have been told to commit suicide, but since he was an American he simply got fired.

>>33089266
>MacArthur provoked China by moving past the 38th parallel
>>33085994
>if he had not poked China the north would control even more of korea.

So if MacArthur didn't move past the 38th parallel the border would be the same as it is today?

>>33085656
Was this before or after he bombed the Chinese "boarder".

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>>33088961
>sure, that's what you think now
No, that's what we KNOW now. Back in the fifties the government was also aware the Soviets lacked parity, they didn't drop their first air-deployable nuke until August of 1953. The early stages of the Korean war was the only time nukes could have been used with impunity. Thanks Truman, you limp wristed cuck.

>>33086591
>The Seventh Fleet squatting in the strait shortly after the start of the Korean War forced Mao to cancel the effort to destroy the Nationalists
Garbage
The 7th fleet was there to stop the nationalists from liberating China

>>33090600
>In Nazi Germany or Russia he would have been told to commit suicide

I'm chuckling at the thought of Hitler sending a radio message to Field Marshall Paulus saying "kys, out."

>>33085603
how the fuck did this not turn into a formal war? it was an entire Chinese army that attacked the American forces.

Fucking politics are weird man.
>These are Chinese """"""""""volunteers"""""""" sympathetic to the North Korean cause
>We're doing a police action

What's a good Korean War documentary besides Chosin? I'm looking for one about the whole conflict.

>>33090880
I don't know man, reading up on it after it was totally ignored in school (Yurop) really confused me. You got the states with nukes and shit but not wanting to actually commit and destroying the commie fucks whilst they were recovering.

The entire Korean war was batshit insane and hindered by politics, U.S. could have kicked the shit out of the commies if they committed.

>>33089774
He also traveled back in time to kill Franz Ferdinand. Or so i've been told by crazy people.

>>33090900
they didnt want to because the government was already infiltrated by commies and commie sympathizers by then.

>>33090900
You're retarded. There was no way the us was going to nuke china and trade Korea for Western Europe. You idiots view this conflict in a vacuum

>>33090900
Well, clearly you aren't very good at reading.

He was nothing more than a desk jockey rear echelon general at the end of his career and wanted to start another war to lengthen it.

He was a war criminal and should have been relieved of command, stripped of his side arm + ammunition, court martialled and shot

>>33090900
FDR and Truman were both commies
Eisenhower was called a commie by people close to them
US federal government was filled with commies

>>33085870
Suvorov was pretty damn great

>>33091274
>commie commie commie pinko commie

Are you mentally challenged or just grew up in the wrong neck of the wood?

>>33091564
better dead than red

If it wasn't for him, we would have conquered the majority of North Korea and left behind a little token buffer state.

Instead China came into the war and we ended up with almost the same borders as before.

He was rightfully kicked out for this self-inflicted fiasco. Screw him.

>>33091655

Seriously! We were warned by China repeatedly not to get too close to their border!

Yet that moron did it anyway! He prolonged the war, and our soldiers paid the price.

>>33091628
Confirmed for retard.

>>33085870
SLIM
L
I
M

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>>33085870

find something

I dare you

>>33092166
>gets ambushed 15 March 44 BC
checkmate caesarboos

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>>33092195

DELET THIS REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33091675
why are you so excited on the internet!

>>33092166
Dyrrhachium

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>>33091102
>There was no way the us was going to nuke china and trade Korea for Western Europe. You idiots view this conflict in a vacuum

That's actually a really important point to make and I'm surprised it hadn't come up in this thread yet.

>>33085743
>>33088850
>>33090740
Even if the Soviets didn't have nuclear capacity to strike the US directly, they sure as fuck had the capacity to steamroll Western Europe with their gigantic army. And their nukes could have been delivered into Europe easily. Not only that, but Berlin itself was deep within the Soviet zone of control. The only reason there was a West Berlin was because Stalin allowed NATO access into the city. The Soviets could have ended that at any time.

So now you have a scenario where China, although was beginning to have tensions with the Soviets, was still part of the Communist world and formally a Soviet ally.

If the US had fucking nuked China, the Soviets could have retaliated by sending their massive army into Western Europe. There's no way the smaller NATO armies could have held them off before they took important regions even with the superior air and naval power.

>>33085603
thanks OP for this post.
i have been reading alot lately about this time period and find it very interesting.
have recently read :
The Last Stand of Fox Company
Chosin- Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War
both are good reads.
had read years ago:
Breakout: The Chosin Reservoir Campaign, Korea 1950. it was a good read also, but the bias against army units detracted very much from overall understanding.
in the process of reading now:
Colder Than Hell & The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War

>>33092345
>That's actually a really important point to make and I'm surprised it hadn't come up in this thread yet.
it came up multiple times already.

>>33092356
you should probably read this instead:
https://www.amazon.com/Friends-Enemies-United-1948-1972-America/dp/0804719578

As a rule, I tend to avoid books written by former Marines.

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Why didn't they drop in paratroopers to reinforce the marines? They were dropping supplies and steel girders to build a bridge but not extra troops?

>>33092995
I guess because the Marines are expendable and were eating too much food and causing too much rape.

>>33092995

Then the Paras would have gotten trapped with the Marines and it would have been a bigger clusterfuck.

The problems the Marines had wasn't lack of firepower to beat back the Chinese, they could do that on a consistent basis with the aid of air. They needed to be able to move fast to foil Chinese encirclement moves, and to do that, they needed to be mobile, which means having fuel for their trucks.

>>33093486
But they couldn't drop the Paras behind where the Chinese were and break in while the Marines tried to break out in order to link up and make a hole for them? I mean that's what Mannstein was attempting to do for Paulus right?

Genuinely asking. I'm not so arrogant to think I know better than the UN High Command but it seems strange to me that they didn't do that.