>Rock Island Auction having their regional auction this weekend

>>33039562
IF it were any other setting than a legitimate auction company, I'd say almost certainly.

Still, I'd be wary. Go to jewgle and see if you can find anything about maker's marks, how they did the stitching, etc.

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And I realize the chances of the Waffen SS cap being fake as extremely high, but I just couldn't resist the possibility that I might get something worth like $5000 for $500.

>>33039562
kek, I'm a big-time surplus shitter and there's a reason why I never deal with Nazi militaria. I simply don't know enough about it to be able to weed out the fakes and repros (and there are many, many of those) from the real Krautshit. Why would you buy a ~$500 hat that you apparently know very little about, let alone one that's likely to be faked?

>>33039584
Well, while Rock Island has a pretty good reputation, it was their regional auction. The regional auctions are where they sell their lower-valued things, items that can't be verified or produce provenance, etc.

I've been doing a lot of research now after the fact and it's just making me more and more worried. Apparently the number of reproductions and outright fakes of these things is unbelievable. I didn't even want the Waffen SS cap. Like I said I just couldn't believe it was going for so little. I did want the Kriegsmarine caps because I collect anything nautical or navy related. But again, I believe I have just fucked up really badly.

>>33039617
Because I also know very little about them and bought it only because nobody else was showing much interest. I only really wanted the Kriegsmarine caps, but now I'm thinking even those are fake.

If I got scammed, I doubt Rock Island is going to refund me since they guarantee only that "the headline of the item is correct." In which case I'll have to pass on my bad luck to some poor son of a bitch at a gun show.

>>33039620
Well I hope you didn't get rused, I really do.

There's an antique/pawn shop in my area run by an old Italian guy that always has Nazi paraphernalia and as tempting as it is, I'm convinced it's all fakes so I've never bought anything.

>shows me his Nazi case
>tries to pass off Eastern European fakes as authentic "Waffen SS" wristwatches
>tell him the German military and SS NEVER used white-faced watches in any capacity
>"Ehhh I'll takeaaaa $2000"

Fucking Italians. Also tried to tell me a last-ditch Arisaka was a K98k. That was fun.

>>33039642
>>33039617
I also had no idea these things were worth so much money. Going into it, I figured a WWII German officer's cap in really good condition was worth like $500-$600, tops. Then it turns out they're worth thousands. That was when I realized I fucked up.

>>33039650
Thanks. I'm also hoping I didn't get ripped off.

I almost don't want to have them verified. There's a bunch of historians and collectors in Grand Rapids, Michigan, near where I live. I know I could easily have one of them authenticate them or tell me they're fake.

But if that happens, I would really feel like a jackass. I could still sell them at a gun show for what I paid, sure. But I don't think I have it in me to knowingly scam somebody. So I'd almost rather just keep them and tell myself they're real, or sell them at a gun show and live my life never knowing if I sold a real Waffen SS cap for 10 times less than its worth.

If noone else are bidding it's not a good sign.

But let me get this straight. You blew 2000 dollar on a whim, in a collection area with more fanatic collectors than black powder Colts? And without knowing your area to the fingertips?

If they were sold as 'alleged' then you won't get any sympathy from RIA. You can resell them as the same, of course, and hope for the best. Sell them as genuine and you are legally responsible for the claim.

>>33039642
>>33039653
for what it's worth, I hope it's real just so you can say you got it for a killer deal. Good luck anon

>>33039650
kek, where I live they try to pass off Yugo Mausers as K98ks, people buy them too.

>>33039670
It's a tough choice. I'd talk to a historian like you said, or go to a more niche forum specializing in axis uniforms and apparel. Might take a while but the peace of mind will be worth it.

>>33039684
Yea it was fucking ridiculous. I work at a gun shop part time (he didn't know that) so I really embarrassed him.

>Ask him about Arisaka on wall
>"Nooo big guy that is a Mauser!"
>No it's not, I can tell from here
>"Okayyy big guy, YOU tell me what you think it is"
>hands me rifle
>I can say with 100% certainty this is a last-ditch Arisaka rifle
>"Okay smart guy, then tell me what is this?"
>points to ground mum
>That's where they ground the mums off when they surrendered the rifle. 1st-tier fudd knowledge
>Tell him that the Arisaka is heavily based off the Mauser action but that it's worth at most $150

I guess he got me riled up and got a free price-check but I couldn't let that transgression slide in my presence

>>33039682
Well, quite a few people were bidding on the Kriegsmarine caps. That's why I paid so much, it started at like $400 and there was one other guy I was bidding against that wouldn't stop.

Only two other people bid on the Waffen SS cap. But they had also just bought a fuck ton of other German memorabilia, they might have just been out of cash for all I know.

They weren't sold as "alleged" by RIA, the descriptions said they were "Waffen SS Style NCO Visor Cap" and "Kriegsmarine Style Caps."

Maybe I could have a lawyer argue the wording of "Waffen SS Style NCO Cap" (it could be argued that while the fake cap is certainly in the Waffen SS style, it is not a NCO Cap because it isn't real, thereby making the listing false).

Like I said, I'd almost rather not know if I just goofed or not.

>>33039726
>Kriegsmarine style
>Waffen SS style

ooooo, that doesn't sound good.

>>33039733
Like I said, in their regional auctions they don't guarantee anything. If it doesn't have provenance they can't say, legally, that it is what it is.

Oh God, someone please just tell me sweet, comforting lies. I can't believe how bad I just fucked up

>>33039653
Wrong. I have an authetic one and they are "like $500-$600, tops".

>>33039745
I'm praying for you man. People get cheated all the time and it sucks. When I was 15 I bought an SS armband for $20 at a gunshow and didn't realize until I got home that the SS didn't wear armbands with the big SS logo on it, and that indeed the SS runes themselves were fucking backwards.

>>33039726

Sorry, you dun goofed. Something coming out of a Bulgarian sweatshop in neon and orange plastic last Tuesday can be 'Waffen SS STYLE'.

Mind you, I would still like to see photos of the actual caps. If only to see what made you think these were originals.

>>33039762
Kek. Well at least if I got scammed I'll know that it was by a halfway convincing fake. I think the second I get them I'll just take them to a gun show and sell them for like $400 a piece. I'll make sure everyone buying knows that I have no idea what I'm doing. At least that way I can recoup a little bit of money and this will be a lesson well-fucking-learned.

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>>33039722
>tfw you're a big guy AND a smart guy
I would have definitely called him out on that shit

>>33039779
Do some research first. Imagine how shitty you'd feel if they were indeed genuine and you sold them for even less.

>>33039763
Yeah when I get them I'll put some pictures up on /k/ so everyone can point and laugh at what a retard I was.

The descriptions for the Waffen SS cap sounded convincing, though. I'll link the items, actually.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1028/4806#detail

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1028/4808#detail

The Kriegsmarine hats I'm almost certain are fake because they're in such good condition. Tbh I wanted those even if they were fake because they look cool. I just didn't think I would bid as high as I did.

>>33039757

I would love to see that one. I could literally get 2000 dollars today for an SS cap that got through all the buyer's tests with flying colors. Those tests are pretty thorough these days mind you.

>>33039787
I shit you not, he does talk like that. He's like a fucking movie character. I think he's an old fascist cause he's always got fascist shit and I actually did buy a pretty cool biography on mussolini from him.

>>33039745
/pol/ here, so I know a bit about Nazi memorabilia. You don't even need to know about markings to verify these to a good degree.

Want to do a quick test? Go in a dark room, shine an ultraviolet light on the inside of the caps, and see what happens. If they "light up" with white specks all over, they're 100% fake.

Then do a sniff test if the first test passes. Smell for musk.

Come back and report results.

>>33039790
Yes but if I do research and realize that they're fake, I couldn't bring myself to actually sell them to another poor sap like me. I don't have it in me to cheat people of their money.

Also, I'm pretty sure I'd be legally fucked if I knowingly sold fake hats.

>>33039815
I haven't gotten them yet, like I said I was bidding over the phone. See this post for pictures/brief descriptions of them:
>>33039799

And like I said earlier, as soon as I get them I'll be sure to post pics so everyone can laugh at me and make me sit in the dunce corner.

I am not an expert on this type of item. Expert's a word most people should be cautious of anyway. But none of those four caps give me a good feeling. Metal's too bright, fabric's too new. the shapes are off and the gold looks like it was melted yesterday.

>>33039800
Well I'm talking about a generic officers cap, not an SS cap.

In any case, my guy deals locally and couldn't get those prices even if he tried.

>>33039847
>>33039799
u fugt m8. At least you got dubs.

>>33039881
Yeah I figure the insignia are fake as fuck. I'm just really hoping that at least one of them turns out to be real.

>>33039905
None of them look real to me either, and I'm a collector.

>F

>>33039620

>Well, while Rock Island has a pretty good reputation

Sounds prety good then ano....

>The regional auctions are where they sell their lower-valued things, items that can't be verified or produce provenance

Ya dun goofed.

Here is what I think is an actual SS enlisted cap, even if in appalling condition.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ss-uniforms-insignia/ss-visor-cap-576512/

Pol guy is right about ultraviolet. There are also other things to look for, like what kind of thread is used - those who buy the upper end stuff can probably not only test the thread type, but also have a set of correct threads to compare with. There's also the 'plastic' square inside which is not plastic.

>>33039562
Do you like it? Did you really want it? If yes to both then don't worry about it.

>>33039642

>In which case I'll have to pass on my bad luck to some poor son of a bitch at a gun show.

I dont even go to gun shows anymore because people like you have ruined them.

In not retarded enough to buy overpriced fake shit but when you get called on it just man the fuck up and dont pussy out like a little bitch.

>>33039562

A genuine SS cap is worth about 3k minimum. $500 wouldnt even buy you the totenkopf and party eagle insginia set.

>>33039991
If you read what I've said elsewhere in the thread you'd know that's not my purpose. That's why I said I don't know if I want to take them to an expert or not. Because if I get told with 100% certainty that they're fake, I can't ethically or legally sell them to someone else. But if I just sell them "as-is," with no warranty that they're the real deal, my conscience can sleep easy.
>>33039985
Yes I really like them. I really like Kit Kat bars too but I wouldn't buy one for $200. If they're fakes they're no better than reproduction hats, and those are only worth like $100 a piece at best.

>>33040013
They get most of their stuff on consignment or donations from deceased people, etc. Their """experts""" slap an arbitrary value on the item and then start the bidding somewhere around there.

>>33040032
Expert here. They're 100% fake.

>>33040032

First of all, you are not the first and not the last to overbid on an auction. You messed up but as long as no one comes for your kneecaps afterwards you didn't ruin anything.

You are going to lose most of those 2k. Maybe you can get 4-500 bucks for them total, there's others with easy money too after all. Personally I would try to trade them for something else, like a rifle or sumthing - loss feels a little less humiliating once it gets harder to quantify.

>>33040054

Heh. Dude. If there is one thing you can be sure of it is that when their experts see something of real value, they start calling their buddies to warn that the auction is starting - that is, if the auction house don't just sell it off to one of their 'favorite' customers. If you expect a fair auction you have already lost.

>>33040058
How can you tell?
>>33040082
>>33040103
Yeah I should have known better. I don't know why the fuck I bought them. I'm usually somebody who is very methodical about buying things. I usually don't touch shit with a ten foot pole if I'm not at least somewhat knowledgeable in it.

I guess it was the "now or never" aspect of it. Didn't give me time to slow down and ask myself what the fuck I was doing.

Guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and accept that I'm a retard. I'll just sell them somewhere as reproductions for $80 a pop. As a collector of many other things (mostly nautical in nature), it disgusts me to have a "fake" anywhere on display in my house.

>>33040154
Fabric is too new, stitch edging is off which means the threads are suspect, insignias are questionable, and the price is wrong. This goes for all of them.

They're fake. You goofed.

>>33040154

Heh, nautical? I bet you have prettier compasses and sextants lying around than me - and more original too. Personally I don't mind owning a replica if it fills a hole in my collection and I know it is a replica. I just don't want to pay much for them.

You are not a retard, though. Just ill advised optimistical at the wrong moment. Looks to me that you will be fine,

>>33040154
Everyone makes mistakes. Learn from it and move on.

>>33039828
There's nothing legally wrong with knowingly selling fake caps the same way it wasn't for the people who sold them to you. It's just important to pick out qualifiers in English such as the word 'Style' in the name of the items. I just wouldn't bet you'll get your money back whatever happens.

>>33040195
Yeah I'm looking at some pictures of actual Kriegsmarine officer caps now. The scrambled eggs aren't even close to the kind the Kriegsmarine appears to have used. So I doubt these are even reproductions. I think they're just good ol' fashioned fakes.

>>33040333
Just keep them and learn from the experience. They're cool regardless.

I have a $20 fake Rolex watch that I bought from a street vendor a few years back, and it's my favorite watch.

>>33040406
Yeah but dude I didn't spend like $20 on these or even $1000. I spent two grand, and that's not even counting the mark up by the auction house for their services. I'd almost just rather burn them and try to put the humiliation behind me. Not to mention that was a big chunk of change for a college student.

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>>33040444
>>33040333
>>33039799
Damn I might be a retard but at least Kek is blessing me with digits

>>33039562
It's what you get for being Naziboo scum

>>33040444
Are you under 20 years old or something? Jeez, what the hell were you thinking doing something so wreckless?

>>33040633
I'm not a Naziboo. I just like naval stuff

>>33040703
Like I said it was just kind of a spur of the moment thing. I was waiting for the gun to come up, and it got to the hats. I really love naval stuff so I was interested and I (wrongly) assumed that Rock Island Auction at least somewhat verifies the authenticity of what they sell. Then I saw the bids going like crazy and figured there must be some collectors in the audience who really wanted them. So I bid. It wasn't until afterwards when I saw that even a single Kriegsmarine officer cap in okay condition goes for like $3000 that I realized that I had fucked up, bad.

I won't abide a fake anywhere near my collection of naval/nautical stuff. So I guess I'll just keep them around. I'll wear them like a dunce hat while I eat cereal and reflect on what a stupid piece of shit I was for a few seconds.

>>33039799
>Waffen SS style
>Kriegsmarine Style
>Style

That means they're reproductions.

>>33040731
Well, you live and learn, dude. Next time take a moment to assess and research before you jump right into buying an expensive historical item.

>>33039670
convince yourself it's fake so you come to terms with a loss of a thousand dollars, then check to see if they're real.

>>33040786
Loss of two thousand dollars*

And I'm already convinced they're fake. The more I'm researching these, even in just the past few hours, the more I realize how painfully obvious it is. Ironically, the only one that looks halfway genuine is the Waffen SS cap, but I'm sure when I get it I'll see everything wrong with it.

>>33040774
Yeah, like I said, I normally do. I just wasn't expecting them to come up for auction. I only had about 20 seconds to make a decision. I thought the hats would look so cool next to my Kriegsmarine Plath Hamburg sextant :(

>>33040733
I don't even think they're repros. On closer inspection they just look fake. Like there's glaring accuracy issues, no reenactor in his right mind would pay for something as historically inaccurate as these are.

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>>33039722
>big guy
Was price checking his rifle part of your plan?

>>33039562
>this entire thread
And I thought I was a fool for being scammed out of a $50 TF2 hat the other day. Thanks for making me feel better.

so OP, you get the gun you wanted to bid on or no?
also the hats have to be fake with the world "style" in the title.
you screwed the pooch hard today /k/omrade

>>33040844
>I don't even think they're repros
What's the difference between a reproduction and a fake besides the fake being passed off as original?

>>33040703
>wreckless

>>33041014
fakes are where they don't try for the little details. just mold the shit to look like it at first glance and you're golden.
repros are usually really, really fucking accurate, like a reenactor would wear, and they try to nail the little details.

>>33041035
Do repros have hidden identifiers that an expert could see and know they're not original?

>>33041074
I believe so, yeah. most self respecting legit companies will somewhere put that its a repro so it can't be sold as a scam.
I wouldn't know the logos or signs or where to look, but I'm sure one's there.

>>33041074
Good reputation repro makers typically use their own stamp or specific tells to show it's a repro.
Some will deliberatley leave out a small feature or use a colour that is not perfect.

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>>33041006
No, I didn't even win the lot with the one thing in the auction I was there to win...

On top of that, the girl I've been dating for about 5 years dumped me on Valentine's Day and my doctor a few days ago during my physical found a suspicious lump on my testicle that he thinks might be cancer. I think I was so reckless with my money on these because I desperately wanted something good to happen to me.

So my February has been pretty shit so far. It's all so tiresome.

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>>33041281
I think when I get the hats I'll post a picture of myself wearing one with the JUST hair photoshopped on. Maybe I'll put like $2400 in cash next to it for comparison of how much money I wasted.

Fuck. It's really starting to set in how bad I fucked up.

>>33040704
Different guy.

That's what you get for not being a Naziboo. Heil Hitler, faggot.

>>33041314
Buy this 2m x 3.35m Kriegsmarine battle flag to hold you over in the meantime.
>http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606153368

P.S. here's a protip. If it has a giant swastika on it, it's real.

>>33039722
there's a guy in canada who's been trying to sell a really shitty, poorly treated last-ditch arisaka for 1000 beaverbux for maybe a year now

I can only imagine that he is sitting and stupidly wondering why nobody wants that peice of shit for a grand

>>33039562
If you post detailed photos of the hats I can tell you if it's real or not. I am a collector

>>33039562
You're fugged op. People buy and sell fake hitler paintings all the time for way more than that.

Im kind of dissapointed with RIA, i bet on a lot of milsurp and signed up for notifications if i was out bid. I got one email saying i was the higher bidder then anlther saying sorry you lost. Whats up with that?

>>33039584
If they turn out to be fake you have several options for recourse with RIA for misrepresenting the item.

But odds are they will simply refund your money, their global reputation is worth a hell of a lot more than ~$2000.

>>33042103
You didn't cough up enough dough for them to sell the item. It's like people who bet on themselves on ebay to raise the price.

>>33039562
If they're real, you made out like a fucking bandit on those Kriegsmarine caps.

>>33040333
I'll give you 10 dollars for one of the Kriegsmarine caps

>buy nazi shit because you're 18 and idolize hitler
>get ripped off badly because you're an idiot naziboo
>bitch on /k/ about wasting all mummy and daddy's hard earned money on nazi shit

this sudden fascination with the fucking nazis on 4chan has got to stop

Pay with credit card, have checked out by independent person. If they are fake, file a chargeback on the basis of being sold counterfeit merchandise.

AS-IS doesn't mean shit if they sold a fake as an original.

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>>33039562
>>33039620
>>33039642

I play in a lot of Rock Island Auctions and have noticed some trends.

>their sales people are totally clueless and cannot answer any questions
>a lot (almost all) of the item descriptions come from the SELLER and not the auction house. Ive found blatant errors, lies and falsehoods.
>Postings are not proofread and have typos, including lazy shit like have 2 of the same gun in the same lot and yet listing each with different nomenclature for the same caliber (ie .30 army / .30-40 Krag)
>I have seen obviously faked items passed off as authentic
>i bought a pistol labeled as ".32 acp", it was actually 7.63 Mauser.
>even some 'documented' guns are not actually documented. taking a picture of your own shit, publishing it and saying "look its in a book, its real" is not proper documentation
>some of their weapons will be missing important things like firing pins and magazines and they will neglect to mention that in the posts

everything I greentexted is from my experiences in their PREMIER auctions

the regionals they dont even post item descriptions, just headlines.


My advice to all of you anons is that if you want something from Rock Island, then set a firm budget, subtract 15% from that (they change a winner's fee) and then bid that number on the item and walk away.

OP, honestly, even if that shit is fake you gotta look on the bright side.
1. you can wear them around (halloween, reenactments, gay nazi orgies) guilt free
2. if you keep them for 40 years no one will be able to tell they are fake because they will look old and millennials are retarded.

If the item doesnt have 10,000 pictures/angles and documentation, assume its fake, or non-matching, or re-blued and bid accordingly.

>>33042327
Well thats super gay, i can see some guys doong that.
I wasnt expecting to really win because it was 8guns for like ~200 a piece, but it wouldve been a solid boost to my collection, and some of them were really nice

>>33042626
mah nigga, i am jelly. i want to get some $100 grips for my hipoint but i dont want to spend any money on it. i painted the grips gold but i see i am outmatched

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>>33039799
dude.

even in the headlines......

"Three Kriegsmarine Style Caps"
"Waffen SS Style Enlisted Man's Peaked Cap"
>STYLE
>STYLE

if they were real then that word would not be in the headline. it would simply read "3 nazi hats" not "3 hats done in a style similar to what nazis wore"

you dun goofed OP.

>>33042626
Is that a New Orleans edition Problem Solver?

>>33040956
Of course!
You merely adopted the milsurp. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see a newly manufactured commercial gun until I was already a man.

>>33042567
I'm not a Naziboo, if you actually read the thread you'd see I'm a collector of nautical memorabilia.
>>33042407
Well considering they're basically worthless to me I might take you up on that.
>>33042214
No, I don't believe I do. After closer look at their auction policies, I noticed that it says they will only "guarantee" the item's TITLE. These were titled as "Waffen SS-style" and "Kriegsmarine-style" hats. I'm assuming they did that to cover their asses, legally.

>>33042214
You don't think they'll just tell me to fuck off? Like I said, they legally only guarantee the title of the item. It says in their terms and conditions that they don't even attempt to verify the authenticity of the item. So I mean legally, they're pretty much set. So I'm just wondering if they would honestly refund me if I made a big enough shitstorm about it and threatened their reputation.

I mean I see how it could hurt business, even just a little bit. After this fiasco, I really don't want to buy from them again. And yes, I realize that *I* was the retarded one, but it's still really fucked up and sketchy to auction something off that is blatantly a fake. Not only that but their "estimated price" was in the thousands of dollars for both lots. At the least that is some type of false advertising.

>>33043146
>collector of nautical memorabilia
Gay. Also, don't listen to that other guy.

Become a Naziboo. It's what's "in" these days.

>>33043748
I'm really not concerned with Heil'ing Hitler right now. I'm more concerned about if there is a way to somehow get my money back from RIA when these turn out to be blatantly fake as fuck, or at the very least figuring out how to recoup some money from this fiasco.

>>33043961
There's no way to recoup your money anon. The least you can do is help usher in the 4th Reich.

>>33043961
>when these turn out to be blatantly fake as fuck
>when
You might want to look at those pictures again, anon. There's no "when" about it.