What accounts for the different levels of "lethality"

>>32968864
>Hit placement?
this one

>>32968864
>>32968870
Its as lethal as a .22lr, maybe a heavier grain one. Maybe more immediate stopping power. But there you go.

>>32968951
I've never heard of 55gr 22 before.
I'm not ignorant to the fact that 5.56 isnt the most devastating round in the world, but the "It's basically a 22" sentiment is getting old.

>>32968870
>shot placement
This has to be it IMO

>>32968951
>Its as lethal as a .22lr
stopped reading there

>>32968864
The Aurora guy didn't use his AR the whole time. His meme drum magazine jammed on the 7th round and the idiot was too stupid to clear it.
The Port Arthur guy got only heads the whole time with a single magazine, which seems suspicious as fuck

>>32968864
>Hit placement?

Bingo. Also the person behind the gun.

>>32968951
What is velocity

>>32969289
I absolutely loathe conspiracy theories but never in my life have I ever seen something as shady and questionable as the Port Arthur shooting and what happened after.

>>32968864
Trained operator vs. guy off his meds.

>>32969376

Trained operator? Martin Bryant (port arthur) had an IQ of 66 which equates to the mental capacity of an 11 year old child.

>>32969437
I had my IQ tested professionally when I was 8 and I recieved a 127. Children actually tend to score higher on IQ tests than they would as an adult. You're fucking retarded.

>>32968864
>>32969437
Straya
Even our retards are better than Septic retards

>inb4sasoper8rsnipermeme
M8 of mine had to guard MB in psychward - he openly admitted it and wanted to do more, and was definitely a retard, even for a taswegian.
Only reason the trial case was shut was Tas cops fucked the forensics and needed to push his tame lawyer for a confession

>>32968864
Aurora jammed and switched to shotgun IIRC.

>>32969437
That's because it wasn't Bryant.

It was a trained operator.

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>>32968985
Here's 60 grain .22lr ammo. I've shot it before, keyholes really bad so you'd need a barrel with a pretty fast twist.

>implying port author wasn't a government operation
>implying the aurora shooting was actually done by james holmes and not mosad

>>32969319
>What is velocity
It's how fast the bullet gets there.
The only reason we use high velocity is so that we can take longer range shots and have a higher chance to hit our target because we don't need to lead nearly as much.
However, the damage either will do will be almost the same at the end of the day.

Modern emergency care will usually save you, unless you're hit someplace bad, take too long to get medical care, or complications.

>>32971205
>Getting hit by a car at 10 mph and 60 mph are pretty much the same.

>>32968864
port arthur used an AR10 not a 15

>>32968864
Because Port Arthur was orchestrated by the Australian government.

>>32969360
Honestly I still kind of feel this way about the Pulse shooting

>>32969360
If I were wanting to go down that rabbit hole, where should I start?

>>32968864
Shot placement, also the bloke at Port Arthur also used an fal in 7.62

>>32971225
Mass matters, stop with the simplistic comparisons.

>>32971326
>getting hit by a baseball going 30 miles per hour is the same as getting hit by a baseball going 90 miles per hour

>>32971326
>getting hit with a slingstone is the same as getting hit with a 12-gauge slug

>>32970860
Get fucked, cunt. You probably have an American grandpa or daddy.

>>32969437
A potato took out 35 people and an entire nations firearm rights in the process. It's not a conspiracy, these people froze up and he shot them. Even a tard can have good eye hand coordination.

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>>32971152
>sniper subsonic

>>32971205
>What is high school physics class?

>>32971205
>kinetic energy is a measure of mass and (velocity squared)

Parenthesis included in case you are too much of a retard for order of operations

>>32968951
>Its as lethal as a .22lr
That's real retarded sir.

>>32971205
>What is velocity
I don't know man, a vector of speed and direction? Why don't you do your own physics homework?

>>32973163
Speed and direction is a magnitude kiddo

>>32971262
I think the the Pulse shooting was authentic, but that at least a third of the dead were killed by police.

>>32968951
>Its as lethal as a .22lr, maybe a heavier grain one.
TIL 40gr 1100fps = 55gr 3300fps

>>32973176
Velocity is a vector of a magnitude (speed) and direction, kiddo.

>>32973177
the only reason he got the killstreak he did was some faggots leaving the bar and barricading the doors to keep everyone inside

>>32973177
>I think the the Pulse shooting was authentic
Of course it is. Why in the world would Obama pick a brown muslim as a patsy? Pulse never made any sense as a false flag because it certainly didn't play into the DNC's narrative. They tried to spin it to their narrative with the "he was a self-hating gay man who was provoked by evil white homophobes", but if they had planned it they wouldn't need such ridiculous spin. They would have just used a white guy.
>but that at least a third of the dead were killed by police.
Almost certainly. But I agree with their decision to cover that up. Telling the truth about that wouldn't bring anybody back to life. It would only serve to demoralize the police and public.

>>32969437
KEK
>his high score on the gimmie test to please parents was 127

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>>32968864

you have to understand the guy who shot up the movie theater was out of his mind, he could not even make a pipe bomb that worked, his ar jammed and he could not clear it and walked outsde, he thought he was the fucking joker, nothing was making sense to him and he was not methodically carrying out the shootings, he just fired a few bursts into a crowd, jammed his rifle and walked out side

the other guy walked around town taking careful headshots

not really that complex

Cho's shooting was well planned and he killed like 30 people with a 9mm by himself

the columbine kids had twice as much fire power each, including sawed off shotguns and only managed to kill less than half that many people as cho alone because they were idiots who forgot people would run at the sound of gunfire

>>32973282

How many people did anders kill? like 70? He was smart, dressed as a cop, went to an island of trapped kids who could not really run and just picked them off. When they hid he would say "it's ok im the police im here to help" and shoot them

Cho barricaded the exits of the classrooms so the kids could not get away, now that's well thought out

>>32973282
>the Port Arthur guy walked around town taking careful headshots
Meanwhile Charles Whitman had dozens of civilians shooting back at him, which he only survived because he was behind effective cover and concealment. If he had tried it like in Port Arthur, he would have been cut down within minutes.

>>32973282
>>the columbine kids had twice as much fire power each, including sawed off shotguns and only managed to kill less than half that many people as cho alone because they were idiots who forgot people would run at the sound of gunfire
Luckily for the other students, they trained against Doom AI so they expected the students to stand around and throw fireballs at them.

>>32971205
Google "Hydrostatic Shock", Noguns.

>>32973354

he was also using a bolt action, totally different strategy

>>32973433
The action of his rifle isn't particularly relevant. If anything, it demonstrates that banning semi-autos won't stop a massacre if a man with a broken brain decides to kill people.

If Charles Whitman had an AR-15 and started walking around on the street shooting people, he would have been cut down in minutes. His body-count is owed to his tactics and marksmanship. Martin Bryant's body-count is owed to Australians being no-guns, even before their guns were banned. If Australians had been armed like Texans, it would have been a very different situation.

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>>32971228
Wut...

>>32973520
australia was, and still is, full of guns

the problem was that port arthur was a tourist resort, and you don't have very many foreigners coming over here with crew serviced weapons in tow, the cops were the only people who had guns there

if he hit somewhere like sydney he would have been cut down within 10 minutes

>>32973250
>>32973177
How do you guys figure at least a third of the dead were shot by cops?

>>32973568
Many of the people in there were wounded but alive or playing dead. Cops went in there guns blazing and shot the whole place up.

Not that I blame them. Sometimes there just isn't a pragmatic way to avoid collateral damage. Trying to wait the guy out doesn't work very well when people are in there bleeding to death. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

>>32973597
Yeah, I can see that possibly happening.

>>32968864
it was the meds.

>>32969360
Tell me about Port Aurthur, /k.

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>>32973597
Why has no one who survived said that the cops stormed in and shot 20 people?

>>32971326
When we talk about energy that can be delivered to a target, we use a 'simple' KE = (1/2)mv2. The energy is only linearly proportional to the mass. However, the energy is dependent on the square of the velocity. So the easiest way to earn mad energy gains is to simply make an object go faster. Take a baseball and make it go twice as fast and you have given it four times as much kinetic energy.

>>32973568
The police breached a wall using a truck and entered with guns blazing. They fired almost a thousand rounds during the entry. Either he was alone in a room full of bodies waiting for the police to come and send him to Allah, or the police killed a load of hostages.
The second is more likely

>>32973697
1. What would they gain from accusing the police of such a thing?
2. It was dark, it was loud, they were laying on the ground in piles, many of them bleeding very badly. Who is to say that any of them were in a condition to be that attentive to what was going on in the middle of a firefight?
3. Combination of 1 and 2. If they thought the police shot somebody but couldn't be certain, what would they gain from voicing their doubts? What if they were wrong? Then they'd be the jackass who accused heroic cops for the victims of a crazed jihadi. If I were in that club and thought I saw cops shoot some people, I sure as hell would keep my mouth shut. Blame the jihadi, since he's the one that is ultimately to blame anyway.

>>32973697
The only officiallowed statement was the the police and the terrorist both used the same kinds of bulets, and so they'll never be able to say for certain if any of the victims were killed by the police.

Which is bulleshit, forensic reconstruction can probably for a good enough job to figure out whow got shot by bulets going what direction.

>>32973795
>>Which is bulleshit, forensic reconstruction can probably for a good enough job to figure out whow got shot by bulets going what direction.
But why would you want to figure that out? Why would you want to tell the cops that were trying to save people that they ended up killing people? What good would that do? The truth won't bring back the dead, it would only hurt the living.

>>32968864
overweight Americans are much harder to kill. hence the proclivity of American police agencies to carry (or at least try) ridiculous caliber firearms such as .357 and 10mm. civilized countries get along nicely with 7.65 Browning and 9mm.

>>32973822
because the cops probably slaughtered tens of people for fucks sake

back in 2014 a terrorist held a bunch of people hostage in a cafe in the middle of sydney, after 16 hours or so the cops breached, they accidentally killed a few people, and the inquest into the police's handling of that incident isn't scheduled to be done for something like 2 months

questions have to be asked, not to blame the police but to create better policy to prevent this shit from happening again

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>>32973822
wise words, friend.

>>32973822
>But why would you want to figure that out? Why would you want to tell the cops that were trying to save people that they ended up killing people? What good would that do? The truth won't bring back the dead, it would only hurt the living.

to learn from the situation and prevent as much loss of life by cop next time as possible

>>32973765
>>32973822
Maybe I've played too many vidya but your fail the mission when you shoot hostages.

Not wanting to know the truth or how to improve is fucking ridiculous.

>>32973846
>>32973822
a lot of problems were uncovered by that inquest too, for example the "contain and negotiate" policy used by the nsw police force at the time was completely inadequate since the terrorist had a death wish, but at the same time the terrorist also wanted attention but the cops starved him of it for no reason

there were also problems with equipment, for example the communications on site was being routed through a single van that was trying to negotiate with the hostage taker, contact the hostages, keep all of the police in line, negotiate with the raid team, keep in contact with the sharpshooters, etc and was obviously overloaded. it got to the point where the hostages found it easier to make facebook posts instead of calling the hostage negotiators

then you had the choice of equipment the cops used, they used M4s against a guy with no armor in the middle of a target riddled environment, that in part lead to the deaths of some of the hostages at the hands of the cops

saying that you should just completely forget something like this and not learn from it is retarded

>>32972199
From what I read he killed most of them at point blank range at a cafe. When he tried to engage people at a distance of over 100 yards he missed almost every time, so no. He wasn't a trained operator, he just picked a good spot and got lucky

>>32973697
Because they couldn't see shit and were bleeding and their ears were ringing, they didn't really have any idea who was shooting at them. Honestly same goes for the cops. They probably bust in, blind fired a fuckton of rounds, and tried to convince themselves that the bad guy killed all the innocent people so they could sleep at night. It's not like they went in, shot hostages at point blank range like a 10 year old playing Rainbow Six for the first time and directly lied about it, it was probably more confirmation bias than anything. It kind of goes to show that having a CCW during a mass shooting, unless you got really fucking lucky and landed a perfect shot, would most likely useless.

>>32973822
To improve their tactics to it doesn't happen again? not that the cops give a shit about any of that. As long as they get paid and people dont ask too many questions it's all good.

>>32971288

Go to godlikeproductions.com look for the topic you want to start with in the search bar.

>>32973863
>>32973846
>>32973944
Those cops are extraordinary unlikely to ever find themselves in a situation like that ever again.

Maybe you could use the situation to train other cops to handle the situation differently.... but what would they actually do differently? The building had one unblocked entrance, should they have gone in that way? Putting whole in the wall and shooting the place up was the best they could be asked to do.

Sure you could say
>Go in there and shoot the bad guy, but make sure you don't shoot any of the innocent victims!
But of course none of those cops were trying to shoot innocents. They were put in a tough situation and did the best they could. Second guessing the cops won't bring any of the victims back and I seriously doubt any lessons learned from hindsight in that situation could prevent future fatalities.

>>32973948
the fuck are you going on about? there are obviously lessons you can learn from that incident, the main one being that you generally don't delay raiding for 3 hours for no reason while people are dying inside.

there are also other, non police related lessons you can learn: for example, blocking entrances to a building such as a nightclub, for any reason, is absolutely fucking retarded and you shouldn't do it at any point whatsoever. a few poofters ran out of that club and barricaded the doors first thing, that's retarded and lead to a lot of deaths.

and yes, the cops are likely to find themselves in a similar situation again. even if they weren't, why would we not prepare for it? do we go up to soldiers and tell them never to train for nuclear attacks because we don't expect one to happen?

>>32973948
It's fucking Florida. Those individual cops might not find themselves in a situation like that, but the department very well could as could another local department. It's not just for them, it's for all police to work on tactics that guarantee a better outcome.

>>32973910
>they used M4s against a guy with no armor
I don't think it's ethical to ask cops to knowingly walk into a gunfight without rifles. Particularly in a situation like Pulse where it was unknown if the shooter had body armor, but it was known (to reasonable certainty) that he had a rifle.

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>>32973658
>>32971288

>>32973994
>the main one being that you generally don't delay raiding for 3 hours for no reason while people are dying inside.
The delay has little to do with the issue of cops accidentally shooting innocents. Certainly they should have gone in their sooner.

I'm not saying there aren't any lessons to be learned from that situation. I'm saying there are no lessons to be learned from knowing how many innocents the cops shot. There are plenty of other lessons you could learn from that, but not that.

>>32974003
i wasn't talking specifically about pulse in that regard, i was talking about a well documented and well investigated case of a hostage situation turned raid.

the cops, in that case, knew that the terrorist had no armor (they did suspect that he had a bomb which is scary to think about when you watch the raid video), but they took M4s in anyway. a few hostages died from shrapnel as a result.

again, learning from mistakes is important. in the case of the sydney siege they shouldn't have taken in 5.56 rifles, that lesson is invaluable for future incidents. besides, the NSW police had access to MP5s, all sorts of carbines, shotguns, pistols, etc. it wasn't like they were starved for choice.

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>>32973948
Never would have guessed Americans responded to terrorism the same way these retards do.

>>32974043
there are lessons to be learned, the primary one being how they fucked up with small unit tactics.

i'm not saying cops should never ever ever miss their targets, that's just a fact of life especially in situations like the pulse shooting, but if they fucked up while breaching or maneuvered incorrectly, putting themselves in a position where they were much more likely to kill innocents, that is a clear problem and can be remedied with further training. if you don't investigate things like that, you can't train for it.

>>32973282
your badge is from the 70's there gramps you find it at the antique shop did ya

>>32973910
It's not like the hostages would be less dedicated with other guns.
>>32973822
Are you a stalinist? Why would the truth not be the right of the American people?

If it leads to heads rolling at the swater team, so be it. Perhaps it will teach police that better, safer tactics and equipment are needed.

The only "bad" that can come of it are bad for individuals, not for nation.

>>32973795
no bully here.
there's a lot of evidence forensic reconstruction isn't as accurate as once thought it falls into the "we need this new tech make it work" category

>>32974046
I agree that learning from mistakes is important. But SOME mistakes cannot be learned from, and bringing them up will only hurt people.

>>32974074
>but if they fucked up while breaching or maneuvered incorrectly, putting themselves in a position where they were much more likely to kill innocents
With the information they had, what could they have done differently? They did the best they could with the information they had.

I'm sure with all the information after the fact you could devise a safer plan of attack for that particular building, but what happens next time when it's a different building with a different shooter? If it happens again, the cops will again do the best they can with their imperfect information.

>The only "bad" that can come of it are bad for individuals, not for nation.
Not true. The truth would demoralize the public, thereby hurting the nation.

>Are you a stalinist? Why would the truth not be the right of the American people?
Should they also release high definition photographs of all the victims with their brains splattered on the floor? That would be the truth, would it not? Releasing those photographs would only harm the public, particularly the families of the deceased.
>sandy hook nuts will unironically see nothing wrong with the public release of high definition photographs of dead children

>>32974173
second half meant for >>32974115

>>32968864
Intelligence.

>>32973948
Wow. Where to begin?
Have you ever heard the phrase "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? It's quite common.
While the situation at pulse is what it is, saying there is no information to be gleaned from it is about as ignorant a statement I've ever heard.
Just off the top o me head, maybe those officers involved shouldn't be on breaching teams. Lesson 1.
Ah, ya know what, fuckit. Nothing I say is going to make a dent in yer thick skull.
Stay classy

>>32974256
>Just off the top o me head, maybe those officers involved shouldn't be on breaching teams. Lesson 1.
How would you apply that hypothetical lesson in future situations? It's not like the police deliberately sent in the wrong men, and the men that were sent in will almost certainly never be sent into such a situation again. They sent in the men they had available to them that they thought were best suited for the situation. What more can we REASONABLY ask of them?

>>32971152
I'm not the kind of guy who sees dicks everywhere, but that ammo looks like dicks.

>>32974115
>Perhaps safer equipment was needed
Suppose an investigation revealed that the cops were responsible for half the fatalities that night. Would that mean that they shouldn't have gone in there with AR-15s? What "safer" rifles would you send men in with?

Asking cops to arm themselves with rubber bullets to take out a guy with a rifle is unethical. Maybe give every SWAT team in the country a few canisters of Russian hostage gas and a crate full of Narcan? I'm not sure that's actually practical.

>>32974475


At 5:07 a.m., fourteen SWAT officers—after failing to blow open a big enough hole in the bathroom's exterior wall using a bomb—successfully breached the building when a policeman drove a BearCat armored vehicle through a wall, then used two flashbangs to distract him and shot at him.[13][31][51][52] At 5:14 a.m., Mateen engaged the officers. He was shot eight times and killed in the resulting shootout, which involved at least eleven officers who fired a total of about 150 bullets.[51][53][54][55] He was reported "down" at 5:17 a.m.[51]

it took 7 minutes for them to actually engage the bloke

in that time, during the sydney siege, the hostage taker had already been killed

maybe some training in violence of action may have helped, did they hesitate at any point? were they not perfectly in sync?

>>32974173
>more people dying is OK as long as we don't hurt the cops feelings!

Get fucked bootlicker

>>32969289
>>32969376
>>32972199
>>32969437
>>32969681
i havent read into this shooting at all. but i have to say that i have seen some really really stupid fuckwits who can shoot very well. being able to shoot well doesnt take intelligence. anybody can do it with enough range time and maybe a good coach who isnt a retarded fuckwit.

>>32974151
Forensic reconstruction has limited utility in many scenarios, especially scenarios where you need to determine which gun did what and both guns are firing from the same quadrant. But it is very capable of determining who died from the fulisade that came from the opposite direction of the terrorist.
>>32974173
Demoralizing the public is a nonconcern. The public's morale is fast to rebound and best served by confidence in the system, which is best served by a system that acknowledges mistakes and is clear about causes and remedies. The police have worked to be opaque in order to protect their own interests since the Clinton Era fiascoes, and this has been corrosive to public confidence in the institutions that are supposed to serve law and order in this country.

>>32974544
You've failed to explain how (correctly) blaming the police for killing innocent people would prevent innocent people from being killed in the future.

>>32974538
"Make sure you get the breech charges right" is a good lesson to learn. "These are the people who were shot by police" isn't.

>>32974572
>Demoralizing the public is a nonconcern.
Idiot.

>>32974375
People are to quick to let the police off the hook when they screw up.

Of course there are lessons to be learned and of course mistakes were made. I'm not saying the officers involved should be punished but unless everything went perfect it should be reviewed and the mistakes made identified.

Try to train the next officer who's in that situation better.

>>32974576
"make sure that you get in fast and don't allow the bad guy to move so he's right in front of hostages" is a good lesson to learn. "don't you dare say anything bad about our cops because muh feelings" isn't.

>>32973371
Lol'd

>>32974475
Safer tactics and equipment doesn't mean teaser guns or rubber bullets, it means perhaps pavaises to allow an approach from the club side, or better breaching tactics than making a small hole with a bomb and then running a truck into the wall. Perhaps it man's some other method of allowing them to safely storm the breach than pouring enough fire to suppress the hostages taker blindly into the breach.

>>32974586
>Can't finish reading a paragraph

>>32974596
You don't need to tell the public which police killed which innocents to train police about the importance of taking out the bad guy quickly. I'm pretty fucking sure lollygagging about isn't part of their current procedure anyway.

>>32974638
Better breaching tactics is something they could learn from it. But you don't need to connect police officers with the innocents they accidentally shot to learn lessons from the botched breach.

>>32974657
I read the rest of your comment and it was fucking stupid. "The public will get over it eventually" is not a justification for needlessly demoralizing the public for no fucking reason. "Clinton and Waco sucked" is not a justification for demoralizing the public. Telling the public in exacting detail which police officers accidentally shot which innocents will do nothing to detoxify relations between the public and the police. Just the opposite...

>>32974702
>here's 50 corpses
>they were all shot using the same type of bullet
>some of them were shot from close up, some were shot from far away, some were shot in the back, some in the front, etc
>your job is to figure out if your good guys shot any of these people while shooting one bad guy
>the less people you shot the better
>NAH FUCK THAT MATE WE DINDU NUFFIN

i mean it's obvious that you have already come to a conclusion and are rerouting your logic to that conclusion, but come on

>>32971205
this guy is trolling. ignore him. nobody on /k/ actually believes that velocity of the round doesn't affect the impact it has on the target. it's bait.

>>32968864
Maybe in the movie theatre the rounds went through walls and seats and other shit that slowed them down?

>>32973354
exactly. there's scores of variations and different factors that change the scenario and affect how many people die.

Type of gun used is probably very low on the list of factors

>>32974702
>Telling the public in exacting detail which police officers accidentally shot which innocents will do nothing to detoxify relations between the public and the police.
Whoa, step back.

I'm not saying that they need to go and try and link bodies to particular officers, and in fact that's likely impossible because they were all using what is basically the same gun and ballistic forensics isn't that good. I'm saying that it'll be a net good for police relations in this county and in Florida if they are transparent about their fuckups

Because holding back info hasn't seemed to build trust so far.

>>32974702
I'm sure the police departments are aware of whether or not they killed any civilians.

I'm sure they definitely learned some lessons and implemented some changes and new procedures for situations like that.

Not everything is a conspiracy. That's what these idiots can't understand. They think it's some massive conspiracy to hide the truth from the public, that the cops are all evil and don't care about killing civilians and just want to hide it from the public.

The reality is that it was a really shitty situation, they did the best they could with the men they had in the situation they were given. I'm sure they've investigated their own actions and have tried to take some lessons learned from it. And like you say, there's no point in making some big public statement saying that half the civilians killed were shot accidentally by cops. It doesn't do any good. Yes, it's the truth. But it's not being hidden by some big conspiracy.


My main question is why it seems like it was 'regular' officers of the OPD that breached the building. Was it SWAT teams that entered? or was it just regular patrol officers responding? If it was regular officers, that's inexcusable.

>>32968864
quick clot and medical advances? Just a thought.

>>32974538
Hol up, they threw about 150 shots down and only tagged the fucker 8 times? I get the hostages probably took some of the heat but really? Only eight times?

>>32975272
cops are notoriously awful shots, and to be honest this was a pretty high stress situation.

>>32975289
It sounds like they all just closed their eyes and emptied mags

>>32974173
>We can never admit the police ever make mistakes because then people won't trust the police!
lol. You realize this is why more people than ever don't trust the police, right? Every time a cell phone video comes out showing the cops lied despite official statements that 'procedures were followed', the public rightfully becomes a bit more skeptical of the police.

You know what would alleviate that dwindling trust? Accountability and honesty. If the police were honest about mistakes and held the responsible officers responsible for their fuckups people would be less skeptical? I don't give a shit if a few inept SWAT guys had to lose their badge forever if they did indeed fucking kill innocent people they were trying to protect. Should we not prosecute gangbangers after a drive-by because their victims are already dead and can't be brought back to life? Or is this a thing where wearing a badge makes you a special person incapable of fault. (Ostensibly) Good intentions don't make a dead person less dead.

Also keep in mind that even people they police didn't shoot in the Pulse died partially because of them. By waiting hours to actually engage, they let wounded bleed out who could have been saved had they not fucked up in pulling back and treating an active shooter scenario as a negotiable hostage situation.

>>32975048
>Not everything is a conspiracy. That's what these idiots can't understand. They think it's some massive conspiracy to hide the truth from the public, that the cops are all evil and don't care about killing civilians and just want to hide it from the public.
Does the name Attica mean anything to you?

Besides, 'investigating their own actions' doesn't mean jack shit. "I promise I won't mess up next time" is not an acceptable basis upon which the people tasked with protecting the public are held accountable.

>>32974565
But he had no shooting experience mate. Sure anyone can shoot well with enough practice, but this is a guy with literal retard level IQ, no military or shooting experience and he's fucking wiping out people like an operator.

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>>32974814
Why'd you have to go and say that.

>>32973697
You don't really pay attention to any news or events, do you?

>>32968951
>retarded arfags take the bait

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>>32975048
>I'm sure they've investigated their own actions and have tried to take some lessons learned from it. And like you say, there's no point in making some big public statement saying that half the civilians killed were shot accidentally by cops. It doesn't do any good. Yes, it's the truth. But it's not being hidden by some big conspiracy.
Are you an idiot or just a LEO