>Be French soldier >Standard rifle is semi-auto until

>>32955071
>be autistic surplusshit
>spend thousands on replica of surrender monkey camo worn in a war they LOST
>pay $2000 for semi auto cuck gun used by loser nation into the fucking 1970s

>hoihoi I can't aim but if I pour hopped up .22s down range with 5 of my buddies we can pin down a Haji long enough for a marksman or some artillery to kill him
You "assault rifle" fags are the worst, especially when law enforcement takes your autistic military wash out fantasies seriously and use some shitty .22(3) rifle on a perp to no discernable effect.

>>32955108
Salty surplusnigger detected.

Get in the right century you fucking fedora.

>>32955143
>muh real modern military gun get with the times
>the people who actually matter are all moving to the AR10 and SCAR Mk 25 because .22 doesn't kill people reliably even with three round burst
>select fire means all the extra ammo you carry from weight savings gets poured into a hill
>F-FEDORA he cries as his nylon plastic gun bends on a hot day

>>32955171
In this day and age with the wide availability of quality guns and gear for historically low price to function ratios, there is literally no reason to cuck yourself with deficient designs that no longer have any rational reason for existing beyond pleasing luddite sperg subhumans like yourselves who only serve to waste resources that actual humans could use to better society.

>>32955171
The people who matter as you say still use .223 but also occasionally issue battle rifles because they are insane and use it like an LMG.

Battle rifles have a place in some instamces as a support and DMR but they aren't a panacea

>>32955180
There's no reason to cuck yourself with some piece of shit modern rifle that can't even kill someone just because
>SO COOL BLACK ARMY GUN I BADASS NOW
>SO CHEAP I CAN BUY OPTIC ON SAME PAYCHECK SO NOBODY LNOWS I CAN'T HIT SHIT WITH IRONS
>SO LIGHT I DON'T NEED ANY MUSCLES BESIDES THE ONES I USE TO JERK MY BOYFRIEND OFF
Truly pathetic.

>>32955190
Seals refuse .22s because they don't reliably stop people. From Ethos magazine, issue 11;
>We shot guys with a 5.56
millimeter center mass and had them walk in five hours later and say
‘you shot me.’ Then we would medically evacuate them. If you hit a
guy center mass – he needs to die. That is the whole point of shooting
at someone; not to do anything less than that.

>>32955253
Oh this is b8. Get some sleep and try tomorrow. I'm sure you can full the whole catalog with shit if you put your mind to it.

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>>32955253
>um, Excuse me sir can I have a moment of your time?
>Yes um, Earlier this day you shot me in the lung and *GHUAGHUHU!* I've been bleeding profusely since, Might you assist me in reaching proper medical attention?

>be American soldier
>isn't entrusted with a fully automatic assault rifle until the 2000's

>>32955291
Literally too dumb to teach grunts not to hold onto the trigger but to merely "flick" it. Also US had them since the 50s so...

Full auto rifles are a meme, you don't use it. It provides no benefit to a soldier or individual properly trained and practiced, even in room clearance and do or die CQM.

Full auto is used by African tribal irregular tier fighters.

>>32955171
Are you so emotionally invested in your choice of firearm and caliber that you're getting upset with strangers on an Indonesian Shadow Puppet Fan Forum?

>>32955335
we used full auto if room clearing and out of flashbangs, stick your gun in the doorway and spray a nice O across the walls and ceiling before entering

>>32955108
>>32955171
>>32955253

So salt.

Meanwhile, the nation who made that rifle replaced it with a 5.56mm select fire bullpup, and is now repalcing that with, you fucking guessed it, an AR-15 derivative. Made by germans, no less. Who are, hilariously, also almost certainly replacing their G-36s with an AR-15 variant.

Looks like the burgers were right all along. :^)

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>>32955071
Some were modded on the field to shoot in full auto, tho.

>>32955696
>What are economies of scale and military industrial complex?

Semi related question, aren't some M16/M4 in service restricted to semi-auto?

Bongs did the same,even longer

>>32955335
This is a policy and not infallible. Full auto rifle fire isn't worthless just because the US doesn't use it. I've been taught to use fully automatic fire in certain situations and I fully believe in it for these situations. Some examples

1) Opening initial and surprising fire to aid the LMG in suppressing a group of hostiles, to gain fire superiority.
2) Seconds before storming or throwing grenades, to keep their heads down at ranges so close that the squad LMG can't help everywhere at once.
3) In small, controlled bursts in close quarters. We don't have a burst setting but I'm trained well enough to give precise 3-round bursts with full auto. I like this because I can at any given moment give off a longer burst of fire if need be, for example if I turn a corner and find myself facing more than one hostile in a confined space or so.
4) Shooting through concealment, especially in MOUT, to clear or suppress rooms before entrance from the outside. The 'poor mans grenade' if you don't have one or can't get it in safely.

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>>32955071
IIRC there was half and half between the MAS 49/56 and the MAT 49.

>>32956202
Did a Swedish K and MAC-10 have a bastard?

>be British
>standard rifle is semi until the 1990s
>the one after that doesn't work

>>32956202
Roughly. It depends on the kind of squad. But OP said standard rifle.

>>32955485
>>32955898
So you guys just spray randomly into houses without knowing what's in em?

>>32956336
Yes? What are you implying here.

>>32955765
>Some
Everybody has semi and burst.
Only cool guys have FA

>>32956202
>mag grip can fold along with the stock

i have a boner for compact guns you can't even imagine.

>>32955071
Don't suppose you know that M16A2 is a semiauto as well

There's literally nothing wrong with a semi-auto tho

Only a few soldiers in a platoon/squad/fireteam/whatever really need an automatic weapon. Yeah, they're useful for suppressing fire and whatnot, but 90% of the time, at usual engagement distances, you should only be using semi-auto. Anything more is just wasting ammunition.

So really the only thing that's stupid about it is the fact that it uses a full-power cartridge, which increases your effective range, yeah, but considering most soldiers aren't going to be able to reliably hit a target 600 meters out it's kinda overkill. A semi-auto chambered in an intermediate cartridge should be standard issue imo. You should have to fill out a report after a firefight if you turned on the full retard switch and explain your reasoning.
>"He was 500 yards out, Sarge! How else was I gonna shoot the dirt all around him really really fast???"

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>>32956452
The French experimented quite a bit with the idea during the 40's and 50's.

>>32955485
What room clearing and military/LEO experience do you have if you don't mind me asking? Because that's how someone outside the building catches a bullet.

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>>32956526

>>32956529
see
>>32955898

>>32955898
What experience do you have doing this. Everything in this post screams videogame tier logic.

>>32956452
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRrFWQXl-RE
6min 08s for quick unfolding

>>32955108
>m-muh battle raifu
>muh stoppan powah n sheit
>FURDY CAL, REAL FUCKIN NATO
Come into the 21st century, anon, small caliber bullets at intense velocities in lightweight rifles is the future, only Africans and Sandniggers still insist on full powered .30 caliber rifles, and mainly because they can't afford to replace the ones they have.

Shit, most people (who mattered) were already getting into that during the Cold War.

>>32955171
>select fire
Except almost all infantry rifles are primarily used with the selector set to semi-auto, which can be heard in near all current and recent combat footage.

An American soldier can easily carry 200 to 300 rounds and make them last (along with the odd spare belt for the SAW or GPMG gunners), and .223 from a 20" barrel (which is still standard) is a good performer, even with super mediocre greentip ammo.

Anon, the battle rifle as a concept is simply obsolete as a standard infantry rifle today, smarter people than you have determined this.

>>32955089
fucking OUCH lol not even a rhodfag and i felt that from here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQyhmd7Gk4U

>>32955089
>$2k
more like $500

>>32955765
M16A2 and M16A4 is safe/semi/burst.

M4A1 is safe/semi/full

>>32955071
HK416F in two years

>>32956474
There's no reason you can't suppress in semi, if you and a mate or two pop off rounds with regularity then that'll work just fine.

>>32956690
Have they made any statement on the HK433? The French don't like to spend a lot of money and it is cheaper, while not being a G36

>>32955071
>be indian solider
>standard rifle is a fucking bolt action until the 1960s

>>32956336
We have two levels of violence during MOUT- clearing and searching. A search is conducted when there might be friendlies in the house. A clearing is done when the building is wholly hostile and in this case grenades and fire into every room before entering is standard. Again, American policy formed by American experience (fighting against guerillas) isn't a global guideline.

Our guidelines and training is shaped by the threat of conventional war. For example, a regimented way of clearing rooms is by firing an IFVs autocannon into them before breaching with infantry.
>>32956556
Six years as a squad leader in MOUT and later light infantry recon in a well trained European military. How about you?

>>32957000
>in a well trained European military
the fact you used European instead of your nation seems to counteract against the "well trained"

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>>32955089
>LOST
>implying the rhodies wouldn't have won if they just didn't give blacks the vote
>implying the FAL isn't a good battle rifle
I wonder who could be behind this.....

>>32956526
>>32956534
>>32956674

are folding/deployable weapons still a thing these days?
"newest" thing i have in mind was that unfoldable smg that carry like a bag and that was a decade ago

>>32956529
Not him and I havn't been taught this, but my MOUT training empathized 'safe directions of fire', every soldier knowing in what direction our own troops were on the outside and inside the building, and in what general direction the enemy was assumed to be in. We train for conventional war and in this situation civilians will have been evacuated or told to stay below ground in bombshelters. There's not going to be anyone friendly or civilian on the outside in the direction I would be firing through walls if I knew what I was doing.

This isn't done in anti-guerilla UN missions and the like, of course. See my levels of MOUT in >>32957000

>>32957018
Sweden.

>>32957184
>svea rike
>militär
>väl tränad
HÖHÖHÖHÖ

>>32957728
*vältränad
Våra stridsbefattningar är i allra högsta grad vältränade. Jag har haft MOUT uppvisning för NATOs MOUTarbetsgrupp och de var minst sagt imponerade över den typen av skarpskytteövningar vi använde oss av, enligt en Amerikansk armeöverste så skulle man i USA arbeta på minst Ranger-nivå för att få tillgång till den typen av träning. För ordinarie skytte var den omöjlig.

>>32957036
>Rhodesia would have beat the rebels if they gave the rebels even more ammunition for recruitment and reason to fight

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French firearms are designed to be dropped unfired when a potential enemy advances.

>>32958037
It's like the vietnam conflict all.
>muh military victory
>political failiure
>DAGGER IN THE BACK

It's like people fail to realise that fighting a war to break the enemies political win to fight is a very valid way to win a war. Not every war has to end with a crushing military defeat and the occupation of an enemies capital.

>>32956415
Hearts and Minds everyone

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>>32958120

>>32958120
There's a difference between training for a conventional war and a counterinsurgency. In the conventional defensive war you either assume that your civilians are evacuated or otherwise safe and that you have a proper battlefield to fight in. Anyway, it's your civilians. You most likely have their hearts, at least moreso than the aggressor.

>>32958082
The war was lost when the West decided white guilt was more important than fighting Communism.

>>32958140
>just trying to imagine the intense day to day boredom that spawned this picture

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>>32956754
>be indian

>>32958191
The war was lost when a vast majority decided to fight a small authoritarian minority.

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>>32958238
keep this french thread free of shitposts please

>>32955071
The British SLR was semi auto too.

>>32958191
That's a simpleton's understanding of a complex and convoluted conflict if I ever saw one.

>>32955291
>what is the m16a1?

>>32958011
Skulle förmodligen pekat på hur dåligt finansierad militären är idag, egentligen.
Vad har vi, typ 10 000 aktiv personal? Vart ett jävla liv när någon hävde ur sig att vi skulle knappt palla två veckor mot Ryssland, som om det inte var enkelt för vemsomhelst att räkna ut genom att bara öppna ögonen.

Socialism var ett misstag :-(

>>32958583
Or all the CAR15 variants and derivatives before the M4 and M4A1

Or the Stoner 63, depending on how you look at it.

>>32958615
Vår dåliga finansiering betyder främst färre soldater, inte sämre, för oss.Försvarsmakten har 25,000 kontinuerligt anstälda soldater och officerare samt 21,000 hemvärdssoldater för totalt 46,000 stridande.

Hur är socialism ett misstag? Vår starka försvarsmakt under det kalla kriget var en socialdemokratisk produkt och alliansen har lett de i särklass största nedläggingarna i svensk historia, en på 90-talet och en nu under deras senaste mandatperiod. Socialdemokraterna, med stöd av V, har nu stoppad nedskärningarna, ökat anslagen och gjort precis vad försvarsmakten har rekommenderat- satt ett återinförande av värnplikten i rullning.

Det är vanligt att folk tänker att de röda i Sverige är försvarsmaktsfientliga men det är bara MP och de får inte igenom några frågor. Det här beror på att M har suttit i oppisition i hundra år och klagat och sagt att de hade varit bättre för FM men när de fick makten så skar de ner som galningar för att reglera budgeten och klara sina utlovade skattesänkningar.

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>>32956660
>only Africans and Sandniggers still insist on full powered .30 caliber rifle
Well, someone better let SOCOM know that either Africans or Sandniggers have infiltrated the Navy Seals.

>>32955750
>What are economies of scale and military industrial complex?

Please. HK is almost certainly doing their own forgings, since their upper receivers are extended up top to accomidate their gas system, and their lowers have a different magazine well profile. They make their own barrels in house. Their fire control group is custom, as is their quad rail, their stock(though it is compatible with standard ones), their grip, their bolt group, their front sight, recoil spring, buffer, and gas system.

There is no economy of scale they are benefiting from that they wouldn't get from building literally any other rifle.

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>>32956526
>>32956202
>>32956534
pic related, MAS 36 CR39. Its A MAS 36 with a folding aluminum stock

>>32956685
Some M4's are burst, IIRC a full FGC is part of the a1 program

>>32959478
>be military procurement officer
>catch your wife in bed with a paratrooper
>say nothing
>one developmental cycle later
>this abortion gets issued
Sang froid indeed.

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>>32956683
Fucking where? I've seen them in the low 1,000s and haven't seen them for any less.

>>32960129
They are like 700ish when they pop up and you know to look, most infuriating thing is finding they have been poorly rechambered for .308 and having to start all over.

>>32958191
The war was not worth fighting in the first place because it sucked resources from NATO. There was NO US option the gooks and ChiComs couldn't withstand or negate.

BTW the US didn't "win every battle" either. American here into real history.

http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

Lots of cool tech does not confer immunity to geography, physics, or enemy determination.

>>32956336
Surprise! War isn't cool or fun and people get hurt. Damning stuff, I know.

>>32958568
Simpletons are why the US entered Viet Nam and why it stayed and why it failed.

Americans are fundamentally hicks. They can build great weapons but as a people we are as stupid as any vatnik.

>>32955071
Outside of a small point during the adoption of the M16A1 during the 60's pretty much every non-warshaw pact country only used their rifles on semi-auto even if they had full auto capabilities.

Full auto on anything other than a machine gun is shit.

>>32960162
>Chris Kyle

why would I take anything a notorious liar and self-promoter says seriously? The man was known for saying anything in the world, so long as it made him look good or gave him publicity.

>>32960162
He cannot honestly believe this. There can't be people who still believe 5.56 isn't worth it's salt after all these years.

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>>32960326
>>32960375
How about this guy?

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>>32960326
>>32960375
Or this doctor?

>be any miltiary
>get issued fully fun rifles
>still only allowed to use semi-fun
fuck it

>>32960162
This reads like a main character's monologue in some shitty fanfiction made by a 15-year-old.

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>>32960435
He was a raging edgelord. Doesn't make him wrong.

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>>32960396
shameless plug for NZ's god of ballistics and firearms nathan foster
''From the very outset of its adoption the M16 was plagued with troubles. Stoner had designed the original AR 15 with a very slow barrel twist rate of 1:14 which was literally a doubled edged sword. By using a slow twist barrel the 55 grain bullet was only just stable in flight, producing a small degree of yaw. On impact the bullet would immediately tumble and render a wide, incapacitating wound. This was initially considered a brilliant design premise but some rifles produced too much yaw and were very inaccurate at longer ranges. McNamara ordered that the twist rate be changed to 1:12 before final adoption of the rifle in 1964. This cured longer range accuracy problems but completely destroyed the stopping power of the 55 grain bullet which now poked needle holes through its victims. Nobody questioned the potential consequences of this move and ignorant of the facts, Ordnance brass continued to believe and promote the M193 as a highly effective cartridge.''
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.223+Remington.html

If it's too small to hunt deer why use it in combat?

>>32960220
I knew the won every battle thing wasn't true, but I didn't think it was that many. Thanks for the link.

>>32960384
The SCAR H has a role when being also used as an LMG which is what SOCOM is wont to do, that still doesn't mean 5.56 isn't perfectly adequate when not using m855 and similar ammunition
>>32960396
And this report is from the fucking 80s.

7.62 is not worth the changeover and your operator fantasies and hearsays doesn't change that. You are welcome to your opinion but it's just that.

>>32959566
The recoil on these is rather stout, and the stock is not the best from what I have heard.

>>32960220
I wasn't talking about Vietnam.

>>32960384
>>32960396
>800m engagement range
Yeah, no shit the .308 will outperform the 5.56 at that distance. Standard engagement range is 100-200 meters, however, and 5.56 is light to carry and easy to use for any shooter.

I won't deny in the least that 5.56 doesn't make a good round for long engagements.

The second one is just ridiculous. It's the same argument we've been having on /k/ for ages - caliber vs shot placement.

I still maintain that 5.56 is the optimal round for the grunt on the ground. Light, easily maneuverable, accurate, good flexibility, and cheap. For specialized roles, yes, the advantages of a round like 5.56 fall off.

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>>32960535
Oooh, a ballistician. Nice.

>>32960180
No biggie only small amount of 308 had problems.
American ingenuity solved them, with after market parts.They sell titanium firing pin which solved primer over strike.
Which is actually caused by using non-military ammo.
I had a bad one that was bored out with a tired remer.there is a machinist gun Smith in Pennsylvania.Bob Toth.expert in fixing.
Don't worry about nothing.

>>32955253
Shhhhhh don't tell anyone but the purpose of shooting people on the battlefield is to incapacitate through wounding, not kill them outright.

It takes at least 2-4 people to CASEVAC a wounded soldier, it can stall an attack when dealing with mass wounded casualties and it clogs up the echelon system.

You deal with your dead after the battle and tend to leave the evacuation of the bodies to those following you up.

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>>32960472
>throws away his M4 and draws what is presumably a 1911
Sugoi desu ne.

>>32960535
>Up to 50% of the rifles were jamming in the field
>hundreds of U.S troops were killed while desperately trying to clear jammed chambers
I respect his knowlege of ballistics and have his book but he can't just pull a myth like that as fact and expect me to respect his knowlege of the development of the round and rifle.

>>32960641
I think he may be getting at the fact that its compared to nam by people that dont know much about either war.

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>>32960535
>Stoner had designed the original AR 15 with a very slow barrel twist rate of 1:14 which was
>literally a doubled edged sword.
Where were you when Eugene Stoner made bayonets obsolete?

>>32960618
>7.62 is not worth the changeover
Not saying it is. Just that it's superior and that switching was a mistake.
>your operator fantasies
These are quotes from SEALs, they're not operator fantasies they're operators who actually operate operationally.

>>32958082

It's the Clausewitz dictum that war is politics by other means. That and the North Vietnamese guy telling a us general who bitched about how the us won every battle "that is true. It is also irrelevant"