Whats the best military project to have been killed off by their

>>32915617

The entire Handley Page Corporation being bullied to death by the UK government because they refused to fold into BAC.

Project MARAUDER.

>>32915617
Xb-70 Valkyrie

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>>32915617
Fuck the ICBM, this is cooler.

>>32915617
Strategic Defense Initiative

inb4 all the buttblasted Leafs stat bitching about the Avro Arrow

>>32915639
>>32915651
One of the coolest designed ever.

>>32915657
I don't really care for the arrow
Wasn't the project infiltrated by commies?

t. leaf

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>>32915696
>Wasn't the project infiltrated by commies?

The engine plant had ONE spy who successfully smuggled out a single titanium alloy turbine engine blade.

That is all.

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>>32915617

>>32915622
This. I cry every time.

>>32915729
I bet Trudeau would apologize to the Soviets for catching their spy.

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>>32915617
Ekranoplan

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>>32915735
Throw in the LSAT with this one

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Floatplane heavy bombers and escort fighters.
Damn Nuclear-powered carriers having to offer a practical solution.

AH-56 Cheyenne

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>>32915763
This, desu senpai. The most a e s t h e t i c subsonic bomber ever designed. A seagoing Handley-Page Victor.

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Dassault Mirage 4000

>>32915617
The Tesla death ray.

>>32915758
Lsat is kill? Wtf why?

Boeing's 747-based design for the C-5 competition.

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>>32915852
Why didn't the French go with it

120 mm Delta gun
M8 Buford
XM-2001 Crusader

F-35

>>32916464
Happy plane is happy

>>32915657
It was obsolete by the time it was made. Fuck the Arrow, but it's sad we didn't use it as a base to build more of our own aircraft.

>>32915786
Ew gross that thing deserved to be aborted. Now the Comanche that was aesthetic.

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This is what I most wish we had today. The ability to stealthily strike from carriers would be a significant upgrade to the Navy's ability to project power.

>>32915729
that you know of*

>>32915639
>>32915651
this
>>32917041
and this

>>32917080
>what is the F-35

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if it's actually as good as they say, the Soviets really screwed up by axing Korobov's gat

>>32917193
What the fuck am I looking at

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>>32915617
because it looks cool and retrofuturistic

>>32917187
Yes, stealth scout gunships instead of drones

>>32917193
A lot of his designs were better than Kalashnikov's; lighter, easier to wield, and more reliable.
The biggest issue were the complexity of some of them as well as the bakelite furniture. Which was later proven to be a non-issue.

>>32917272
>A lot of his designs were better than Kalashnikov's; lighter, easier to wield, and more reliable.
>The biggest issue were the complexity of some of them as well as the bakelite furniture. Which was later proven to be a non-issue.


I'd really love to know how you know that. Sounds like made up BS to me.

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Rooivalk. Even Malaysian and Jordanian showing high interest to get them. Rooivalk even successfully tested and integrated for the Malaysian Army first combat helicopter trial. Sadly the South African industrial capability cannot meet its demand.

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>>32917200
Korobov's TKB-022PM, an experimental assault rifle developed by Tula in the early 1960s. It has a vertically-sliding bolt, which supposedly makes it far more accurate and easier to control than contemporary conventional designs. The AKM got BTFO by the Korobov in field trials, but the Korobov was shelved over durability concerns.

>>32917272
>The biggest issue were the complexity of some of them as well as the bakelite furniture. Which was later proven to be a non-issue.
it's unfortunate that it wasn't submitted 15-20 years later when the Soviets began to see the value in giving special troops niche weapons, it would probably have been adopted in some capacity. The fact that they didn't resurrect the project makes me wonder if there was some serious flaw in the design, though until we get proof of that we can just chalk it up as another victim of favoritism in Soviet OKBs.

>>32917334
there's a few websites and wiki pages that document some of the weirder stuff that came out of Tula, and according to them Anon is correct.

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>>32915617
They had fired the engine and everything. It just needed assembly.

>>32917367
Looking at it I'm reminded of the assault rifle from mass effect. I wonder if it was an inspiration.

>>32917367
>there's a few websites and wiki pages that document some of the weirder stuff that came out of Tula, and according to them Anon is correct.

I know all of these and they all are suspect at best.

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rest in peace, you were too good for us

>>32915844
>>32915763

This. I always get mad when I see pics and remember

>it doesn't exist

>>32917187
Too expensive.

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>>32915844
>>32915763
fukken burgers can't go a day without stealing Russian OC!

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This was once the plan for a Royal Navy escort that weighed around 10,000+ tonnes and could go over 40 knots.

You can see some of the eventual Daring class design elements in there, the twin radars for example.

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This.

>better version of a V-22 Osprey
>in the 1960s

>>32917367
I think it end up being a situation similar to the M1 Garand and the Johnson M1941.
A rifle is adopted and mass produced, someone comes along with an arguably better gun, but there's just not enough of an improvement to justify the re-tooling and re-training for everyone.

I don't see what advantages a Korobov rifle (Like the TKB-022, or a few of his others) would have offered to the common infantry man. Maybe as a specialty weapon for VDV or armor crews, who could benefit from the shorter length.

>>32917641
they stopped this because all the crew wound up with severe back issues because of buffeting

also, you can't turn so you could fly into a boat at 300mph

>>32917641
Seamaster came before the Ekranolans, and it was an actual aircraft.

>>32917662
I am impressed/10

>>32916558
>It was obsolete by the time it was made.
the Arrow was better than anything at the time, better than F-4, Mirage III, mig-21, F-104, nothing came close to it

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>>32917952
>the Arrow was better than anything at the time
No.

>t. Convair

>>32915758
what!? no! why is lsat into kil?

>>32917084
That was confirmed by unclassified post-Soviet Russian documents**

>>32917367
>vertically-sliding bolt
? i need to see a pic of that

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The MMEV. Now we have no ground based AA systems at all and must rely entirely upon the air force for air defense. It would also double as an anti-everything unit.

>>32917952
>the Arrow was better than anything at the time
What are some records it broke?

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The XF-108 Rapier

The North American XF-108 Rapier was a proposed long-range, high-speed interceptor aircraft designed by North American Aviation intended to defend the United States from supersonic Soviet strategic bombers. The aircraft would have cruised at speeds around Mach 3 (2,013 mph; 3,240 km/h) with an unrefueled combat radius over 1,000 nautical miles (1,900 km; 1,200 mi), and was equipped with radar and missiles offering engagement ranges up to 100 miles (160 km) against bomber-sized targets.


Its so sexy. Would have been the icing on the cake that was the AESTHETIC century series

>>32917367
>vertically-sliding
Wouldn't that make it a rising or falling bolt?

>>32917527
F

>>32915622
THIS IS NOT A FEELS THREAD

>>32915622
stop

>>32917952
>worse than the Rapier
>Rapier was cancelled for being obsolete, too

>>32917527
F F F F F F

>>32915758

I'm not sure how accurate that is, last I heard the LSAT was actually rather close to a complete and mass producible model.

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>>32915617
A South Korean Suicide Squad, composed of criminals, trained towards assassinating the then dictator of North Korea, Kim Il Sung.
Before being deployed, in the midst of improved relations, the unit was shut down and supposedly in the process of being 'erased'. The survivors escaped the island they were being trained on, got on an armored bus on the way to the South Korean President's palace, got stopped and 'an hero'd w/ grenades en route.

The reports of the drill sergeants in an interview were brutual. The training resulted in quite a few deaths, and supposedly created something close to super soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/209th_Detachment,_2325th_Group

>>32918851
>>32918785
>>32915743
Why the autism?

>>32919334
This sounds like the plot of an 80s action movie

>>32919334
Korea was fucking hardcore in the 70s/80s, a lot of people seem to forget that

>>32915729
lolno, the entire detailed blueprints were leaked, essentially every single technical document, the blade was just the only physical item that got smuggled out

>>32919398
They made a movie out of it after a dude wrote about it/found all the surviving drill sergeants. Silmido. sad.

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>>32917952
late response but
>an aircraft dedicated to one highly specialized role that is already obsolete is better than a multirole that can take on various jobs

>>32917662
>Dornier Do-31
That's niiiiice.
Seems an easier way to do VTOL too, I wonder what went wrong with it?

>>32918380
Wasnt this also pursued in the YF-12 interceptor?

STAR WARS program
Seriously, Kinetic Bombardment should have been and likely will be the next development of future warfare once active denial systems (i.e. lasers) become prominent enough to render any conventional ICBM warhead obsolete.

>Country A drops a massive solid steel rod on country B
>Country B has virtually no reaction time in which to track it (with no electronic signal or IR signal until much too close)
>Country B then must launch a conventional ballistic warhead with enough explosive force to fragment it or knock it off course
>Kinetic rods can range from city-levelling force to targeted demolition size, varied composition elements allows for different detonation types
>in essence clean, cheap nukes that can be dialed into a specific target
>when the carrier satellite falls out of its orbital lifespan just drop the rods innadesert and have someone go salvage them, abort drop into the ocean if need be

>>32920239
Ten engines, limited payload capacity, ten fucking engines.

>>32917448
>"Fuck this geographical area and everyone living in it in particular"

>>32918368
Seems like something of a waste of time honestly; the US isn't soon going to be facing any country with serious air power, and even if we did they'd just use ATGMs and/or Wild Weasel our ass.

>>32920438
>literally a MIRV loaded into a drone

>>32920464
except for the

>After delivering all its warheads, the missile could then spend weeks flying over populated areas at low altitudes, causing tremendous ground damage with its shock wave. When it finally lost enough power to fly, and crash-landed, the engine would have a good chance of spewing deadly radiation for months to come.

part?

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>>32918337
i found this picture explaining it

>>32920568
nice

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>>32919334
>North Korea creates an assassination squad.
>North Korean squad kills a bunch of South Koreans
>South Korea creates an assassination squad
>South Korean squad kills a bunch of South Koreans

>>32917952
>the Arrow was better than anything at the time
hahahhhahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahhahaahhaahahaahhahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahhaha

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>>32915844
>The most a e s t h e t i c subsonic bomber
I disagree WebM related
>>32917527
The sr71 did its job anon.
We simply didn't need it anymore

>>32917041
Don't worry, I heard the 6th gen fighter is gonna be yf23 based.

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>>32920834
>"The sr71 did its job anon, we simply didn't need it anymore"

>there will never be demilitarised SR-71's for civilian use (e.g. fast courier for transplant organs, private transport for CEOs, etc..)

>>32920896
>SR-71's for civilian use
maybe it has to do with the extreme upkeep and supersonic flight restrictions and not having any luggage space

>>32917251
isn't that just a F16 trainer with a delta wing

>>32920942
well to be fair you could put a few bags where the cameras would go, but yes, the main problem is that it's not legal to go supersonic let alone triple supersonic over most countries.

>>32920942
If you had a legit need for it, the upkeep would just be another business expense

The flight restriction is an issue but if you were a big enough company to be able to operate a SR-71 you could probably bribe some folk to get an exemption.

as for the luggage space you've got the RSO's seat which could be converted to either a passenger seat or cargo space, and most of the sensor suite e.g. radar, cameras, etc. could be removed to make room for cargo.

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>>32920896
Why would the military allow a civilian to use a jet that can go 2,600mph?

You know there is still a bunch of top secret shit we don't know about the sr71

The airforce still has a sr71 btw.

>>32920998
The Concorde operated at about half that speed and was perfectly fine

and while you have a valid point about the top secret stuff, most of it would be removed in the demil process e.g. radars removed and stealth coating replaced with regular aircraft paint, and while the airframe stuff would be an issue it's not like it would hurt that much since no ones making new SR-71s and they're no longer in active service.

it's just a fantasy, man

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>>32920998
saw one of these up close at an aerospace museum
>mfw seeing the size of those fucking engines

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cute plens

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>>32920834
The Blackbird has stood as the pinnacle of speed for a ramjet aircraft able to transport a crew in relative safety for fifty years. Saying we don't need it any more is akin to saying that we don't need improvements to speed, which is right, we don't. That's why development in that field has stagnated in favor of better radars and software. Jets these days are more well rounded, but a rolling stone gathers no moss. They are just above average in all areas. That makes the Blackbird one of a kind since it focused all energy into one thing: going as fast as possible. Sure we now have scramjet engines, but they aren't being put into piloted aircrafts. Discontinuing the Blackbird is an admission that we aren't focused on developing speed driven aircrafts and that's why it means so much, whether the logical choice or not

>>32920959
What are they going to do, shoot missiles at it?

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>>32915617

>>32920834
i love this ho-229

>>32920949
beat out by F15E as a strike fighter. better range, lift, and loadout than base F-16

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>>32921107
I weld and assemble a lot of fighter jet engine parts and ya, that J58 is giant compared to the new stuff.

>>32921363
The airforce has a top secret high speed jet already, it's OK man.
Old guy I work with swears some of the experimental parts we make are for the J58.


>>32921409
Stale meme.

>>32919363
Pierre Sprey

>>32917251
Any explanation to the fact the two wings are different?

>>32920834
>stealth bomber
>has lights on it

what a disaster

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>>32918515
Too good for this world

>>32918515
this

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Pic related.

>>32921574

After it was cancelled and transferred to NASA, they used it to test wing glove with fuck load of holes drilled into it, idea was suck in turbulent airflow to restore laminar airflow over wing. Asymmetric wing make ugly as fuck.

>>32921626
>>32921633
is that an A10 with rotors?

>>32915866
>>32918305
>>32919199
He is talking about the caseless ammo version.

>>32915757
Didn't they have almost 10 operating?

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>>32915617

>>32917448
this thing is fucking insane. it's literally the most deadly weapon ever, you could build a few thousands of these things and have them fly back and forth for a few weeks and scour an entire nation clean of all buildings qith the shockwaves they produce.

>>32918871
That, together with the Energija launcher. Well, it wasn't really cancelled I guess, the country that produced it just ceased to exist.

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>>32921639
>is that an A10 with rotors?

Like filenames say. AH-56 Cheyenne and S-67 Black Hawk. Two different aircraft.

In 60's US Army wanted more capable attack helicopter than AH-1, program was called Advanced Aerial Fire Support System. Competition was mainly between Sikorsky and Lockheed, both offered advanced compound helicopters. Lockheed won as their design was more conventional and less risky, they still quite didn't get it to work and it was cancelled. That was AH-56. Sikorsky privately developed pretty conventional S-67 as alternative, basically stripped off most of fuselage from Sea King, result was S-67 Black Hawk, Army didn't want it. AAFSS was cancelled follow up was Advanced Attack Helicopter program that ended up in selection of Apache.

Currently most major helicopter manufacturers are toying around with compound helicopters.

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>>32920896

>no cyberpunk vision of the 2000/2010s where concorde style supersonic airliners are ubiquitous as luxury first class travel for sararimen and other rich "suits "

y

>ctrl+f
>"F22"
>no results

>>32921868
it's not canceled

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>>32915617
Partial test ban never forget

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>>32917350
They exist, there's just fuckall of them (~6 in South African service)

>>32917527
tfw the nuclear interceptor variant got canned

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what if....

>>32917527
F

>>32915852
It's like a lady F-15.

>>32917648
hnnnnnng

>>32920407
STAR WARS did do its job in a way. It forced the Soviets into total bankruptcy as they scrambled for a counter.

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>>32921798
Damn it man.
If only Concorde had been less fucked over by hysterical noise whiners and had been more profitable earlier - watching a documentary about Concorde, after costs meant only nationalised flag carriers ended up with the plane and a few years running a loss the head of project was at one point given an ultimatum: make Concorde profitable or the project will be canned. So he went and asked the businessmen who flew on the thing what they thought the flights were worth. Turns out they never actually bought the tickets themselves, they had secretaries do it, and thought it was such a big thing that is simply must be expensive - they all reckoned the tickets were well above the price they actually paid. So the prices went up to match their expectations.

With earlier profits and less difficulties, maybe then the Boeing 2707 might have made it off the drawing board and into the skies - it was the US version, and much bigger - it was a widebody Concorde

>>32920334
>even the planes have big noses

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PZL TS-16 Grot

At that time Porand had a very decent aviation industry, successfully exported small airplanes and helicopters thru out the world.

But a polish-made fighter plane was too much to our Russian masters, too much competition, so the project was dumped.

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>>32922145
>Grot
Does that make russians orks? Orks are always wrecking grot-made things

>>32922128
>>32921798
The soviets had one too, and again accidents fucked it.

>>32922226
>The soviets had one too, and again accidents fucked it.
There's a conspiracy theory that says that, brits & french knew ruskies will try to steal props for Concorde, so they deliberately allowed them to copy some plans... that ware tempered with, changed, so that the plane would crash.
True or not, still funny.

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>>32918871
What could have been. I cry every time.
>>32921679
It was cancelled in 1993.

>>32922470
Why do you cry?

>>32915617
Offensive use of the brown note.
It is the culmination of biological warfare and we're ignoring it.

>>32917092
The A-12 offered two big advantages over the F-35. 1) It would have entered service over 15 years ago.
2) As medium attack aircraft it would have a significantly longer range than the F-35.

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>>32922492

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>>32922480
Because ever since the Cold War ended humanity aspires smartphones instead of space.

>>32917527
F

>>32915622

Was that canceled by the government? IIRC Northrop developed it on their own initiative but everyone had already bought F-16s.

>>32922514
Humanity stopped aspiring space long before cold war ended.
But hey - chinks invest like mad in space, maybe they will take up the stick white people dropped.

>>32919890
The need for the Comanche died with the end of the cold war. As for the R&D project surrounding it, it never got "killed". Given the Stealth blackhawks used in the OBL raid, it just got rolled into the black budget and continued unharassed.

>>32921491
Notice most Oxcarts went to museums sans engines.

Remember that the USAF never decommissioned the JP-7 tankers.

We have something, that you can be sure of.

My money's on the A-12 being a gray world engine, refueling, and basing/opsec testbed for something else, something stealthier, which entered service in the late 60s. I'd be shocked if it wasn't the (also J-58 powered) Convair Kingfish or a derivative thereof.

I also think something else came on line in the late 80s or early 90s that the USAF also had access to, which was why the SR-71 was then retired.

>>32921595
You're right. What idiots

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Technically it was in service, but it's was a really short time and never got to do anything.

Coolest strategic bomber ever.

>>32915617
Gunny told me I couldn't wear my beanie. And IT WAS cold.

>>32915639
Fucking retarded plane, sexy tho

>>32917350
Good, fuck Malays.

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>>32917080
>There is an alternate universe where Cheney died from his first heart attack and the US Navy got the A-12 to replace the A-6 along with an EA-12 to replace the Prowler.
>In this universe, the [pic related] was never cancelled, and the Northrop Grumman F-24 Hellcat II hit IOC around 2010, replacing the Tomcats in the fleet defense role.
>In this universe, the Rhino never existed, and was instead replaced by an F-14 strike package to hold the Navy over while the A-12 the F-24 came online.
>In this universe, the 2017 carrier air wing is all stealth consists of E-12's, A-12's, F-24's, and F-35C's (plus the E-2/C-2 and the legacy F/A-18s)

I'm going to go crawl in the oven now.

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>>32922563
It was used a little bit in Korea, though I think only in recon/intelligence roles - the first jet Migs effectively grounded it as a combat aircraft.

It did however set the capacity and standards for all other future bombers, and won a battle against what was possibly the USAF's most powerful foe - the USN

If you want to go fully "never saw service" there's always the proposed X-6, the nuclear-powered version

>>32916464
I don't know how Boeing ever thought they'd get a design this goofy looking past the top air force jocks. There is no way they could picture themselves with their slick mustaches and aviators climbing into an X-32.

The F-35 totally looks like a slick fighter plane that a fighter jock would want to fly. That's why it won.

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>>32917527
F

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>>32922470
>It was cancelled in 1993.
Technically. But it was save to assume that that would happen in 89/90. The russians just didn't have the economic power for a space program with vehicles like that.

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>>32921545

>>32922634
That's just too beautiful for this world, anon.

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>>32922563
Speaking of which.

>>32922541

> I also think something else came on line in the late 80s or early 90s that the USAF also had access to, which was why the SR-71 was then retired.

All very valid points, but this one is the most. The whole "muh sats" argument makes no sense for the retirement of the 71. My bet would be that the US cracked the supersonic flying wing problem and are exploting the fuck out of it.

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>>32922728
No, it is not safe to assume that. In 1990 and 1991 the programme was still funded, but by 1993 its budget was reduced sixteenfold.

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>>32915617
Maybe doesn't mean much to anyone else, but it stresses me out that my country could be making its own supersonic jet fighter but isn't.

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>>32922806
My hunch is that the YF-23 was based on (or possibly led to) a tailless, delta winged variant for supercruising ISR, which is why the YF-23's cramped, linear weapons bay resembled a Q bay more than something designed to hold weapons.

Imagine something along the lines of this rendering.

>>32921947
They stop all production for God knows why.

>>32922047
>Footfall is a 1985 science fiction novel written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

is it worth reading? ringworld din't rock my world desu.

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>>32922806
The 10-year coverage gap in terms of instantaneous imagery capabilities between the A-12's retirement in 1968 and the first EO sensor satellite capabilities with the 1st KH-11 launch in 1978 (and more realistically with the completion of the KENNAN constellation in the mid-80s) says it all.

In the late 60s when spysats were good for little more than mapping and had to de-orbit film canisters to return imagery, they wouldn't have given up on the A-12'S capabilities unless they had something better to replace it. Pic very related.

>>32922598
>>32922598

Yeah..That's what you mother say.

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>>32922839
Just look how beautiful it was ;_;

>>32922893
Or that the SR-71 was doing the job better?

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>>32923007
The A-12 swung a bigger camera and was much better at imaging specific things, while the SR-71's more and smaller cameras were better at mapping and strategic reconnaissance.

If the SR-71 was pic related

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>>32923088
Then the A-12 would be pic related.

>>32917187
I miss seeing these things fly overhead. The dream was alive back then.

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>>32923114
>Implying the dream ever actually died

I just hope we one day get to see all of her, and her Chinook/Model 360-derived big sister.

>>32917648
I....is that a trimaran-design as well? Looks like someone took the superstructure of a Daring and put in on the hull of a LCS

>>32921626
That is cool as fuck

>>32922514

Nonsense.
>NASA is now just the USAF's civilian propaganda sector
>USAF Space Command is a thing and they have an undisclosed budget

>>32923302
I just want to see the Blackstar get declassified.

>>32923302
>>USAF Space Command is a thing and they have an undisclosed budget

t. watched too much Stargate SG1

>>32923357
Please, as if the fucking Gate would require that much funding.
Ofc, if you include the budgets for the Daedalus...

>>32915617
This still hurts.

>>32923389
>Ofc, if you include the budgets for the Daedalus...
thats what Im talking about, the starships and fighters they built.

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>>32915651
the XB70 was really, really fucking cool. it wasn't a bad design at all, it's just some test pilots fucked up and shitcanned two of them, leaving the one, and the AF said fuck it.
it's actually decently viable and if it didn't make an autistically big radar sig it could probably work today.
>dem folding wingtips

>>32917350
They're not dead, just held in captivity by an incompetent air force in a mostly neutral country.

>>32917527
I see it was wetting itself in its old age in that picture.

>>32923457
no, they always leaked. The metal expanded when it heated up as they reached speed, only then did the tanks seal.

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>>32915757
Came here to post this.

If I were a billionaire I would buy pic related and live in it.

>>32923497
i wonder how useful they'd have been against CSGs in the 70s/80s

>>32923497
tailgunner post looks so comfy

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Airships.

>>32923532
>giant, slow moving fuel air bomb thats completely unarmored and not too well armed
gee, wonder why that failed

>>32923531
>tailgunner on an Ekranoplan
>Cyka Blyat all day long as froth and foam is kicked up constantly into your comfy gunnery seat

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>>32923540
yeah but they're cool

>>32923545
kek

desu im not even sure if that's a tailgunner or not. it's a nice spot though.

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>>32923548

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>>32923561

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Twin-seat A-10 Warthog

>>32923416
>mfw the F-35 budget is just front to channel black funds into the Daedalus and F-302's....

>>32923567
Ah, the majestic house-boat-blimp

>>32922872
>>32922047
so? anybody know where you can dl free pdfs of footfall and other niven books?

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>>32923581
She's wasting away right now, /k/.

Why don't you save her?

>>32923457
It's alpha, it marks its territory. It has pissed on everything its been around since it first flew.

>>32922985
I want it.

It looks like a SU-25 and a F-16 had a love child

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Tesla's death ray.

>>32923605
is the gun functional?

>>32923612
>>32923457
they have a nice anecdote about that in the movie Space Cowboys with Eastwood

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>>32923532
Airships are still a thing in Britain.
As it turns out, they're pretty good for hauling cargo.

>>32915617
I have an idea for a (semi) solid state (n)ERA armor (SSSnERA) for tanks. Will you fund me?

>>32923655
Britain is pretty much a non country.

>>32915651

People never really realize how far ahead of their time it was. Look at the background of that photo. That ancient bus and the the piston engined transports were in normal service, the F-80 jet was still used as a trainer, and the P-51 was seeing combat in Central America.

And then you have a space magic mach 3 nuclear bomber in the foreground.

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>>32918546
It was more of a tilting bolt

>>32917952

The Arrow was the best pure interceptor of the time. However interceptors were outdated as soon as good AA missiles came out. All the other interceptors were either cancelled or kept in reserve. Other than the MiG-25 I guess.

>>32918871

>Russians actually let their only space shuttle get destroyed because no one would shovel snow off the museum's roof.

>>32915757
never ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WopbvjBMa3A

>>32915622
It's a turkey.

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>>32923540
>fuel air bomb
Only if you use hydrogen as a lifting gas, otherwise they were actually kind of difficult to shoot down because of how slowly they lost gas.

The idea of them as aircraft carriers is a bit odd, though it's thought that in the future they could serve as drone "motherships"

>>32923655
Interesting thing that, started off as a project by the company that makes it, Hybrid Air Vehicles, they partnershiped with Northrop Grumman on it for a few years and it was in testing-development with plans to deploy it in Afghanistan, but the project got canned so it got sold back to HAV again for fuckall, with a lot of data but no specialist equipment or helium

>>32923791
>It's a turkey.
interesting because the whole F-18 family is based on the F-5. F-5 seems like a great plane.

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>>32923843
They still use them for recon.

>>32920834
>flyangle

best ever. If it never got made it would top this thread undoubtebly, what a miracle that it did

>>32923848
It's joking about Sprey, who thought that the multirole stuff as well as Sparrow capability made it a turkey. Because he's retarded

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>>32923860
Is that just a big inflatable, or is it manned and engine powered?

I feel I should mention that the Airlander is named after the CEO's wife, and this is what it looks like from the front.

God knows how big the planned airlander 50 would be

>>32923746
>museum
if only that, people could have seen the thing then. It was some shed in khazakstan

>>32922047
>external fuel tank on the shuttle orbiter, in space
I find this difficult to believe.

41 for freedom. They should just sail around the world and threaten shit states.
And the Danish submarine program. We are officially not able to even perform coast guard operations without USA.

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>>32917527

>>32917041
Why not named xf-23 ? (Just curious dunno shit about planes)

>>32923357

http://www.afspc.af.mil/

get gud fgt

>>32924062
The main engines wouldn't work otherwise.

>>32924372
Well yeah, that's what the OMS is for. As far as I know, the shuttle didn't have the delta-v to lift it's external tank into orbit.

>>32924407
what would be the purpose of lifting the tank into orbit after it's empty? If you want to lift a tank with fuel left in it into orbit you need to redesign the whole shuttle anyways since it doesn't have the thrust to lift a heavier tank at launcher/after SRB separation.

>>32924431
That's my point. That picture shows shuttles docked to a space station with their external tanks, but that's just not how the shuttles worked.

>>32921659
Both dead :(

>>32924500
I will never forgive Putin for this.

>>32922145
>At that time Porand had a very decent aviation industry

Nope, it sucked compared to Yugoslavian. Polish industry never constructed supersonic engines in quantity bigger than a few prototypes. I mean NEVER - to this day.

>Russian masters

Soviet Union had not interfered in this case, it was just taditional polish retardation.

>>32920942
it worked well for the x-men

>>32924484
ah, that's what you mean. It's not a real concept i think, they probably just slammed them into there as scale. I doubt the shuttle would have the structural integrity to be stuck onto something with nuclear pulse propulsion anyways.

>>32915617
Mp 44, was essentially killed off by the party but was developed secretly

>>32917527
>There were a lot of things we couldn't do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was fun to fly the jet. Fun would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this plane. Intense, maybe. Even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the fastest guys out there, at least for a moment.

>It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the jet was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet.

>>32924746
>I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however. Walt was so good at many things, but he couldn't match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury.

>Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace.

>We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot asked Center for a readout of his ground speed. Center replied: "November Charlie 175, I'm showing you at ninety knots on the ground."

>>32924753
>Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the " Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.

>>32924762
>Just moments after the Cessna's inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed. "I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed." Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren. Then out of the blue, a navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios. "Center, Dusty 52 ground speed check". Before Center could reply, I'm thinking to myself, hey, Dusty 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million-dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a readout? Then I got it, ol' Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He's the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet. And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion: "Dusty 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground."

>And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what? As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of the radios. Still, I thought, it must be done - in mere seconds we'll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now. I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn.

>>32924776
>Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet. Then, I heard it. The click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: "Los Angeles Center, Aspen 20, can you give us a ground speed check?" There was no hesitation, and the replay came as if was an everyday request. "Aspen 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground."

>I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: "Ah, Center, much thanks, we're showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money."

>For a moment Walter was a god. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the Houston Center voice, when L.A.came back with, "Roger that Aspen, Your equipment is probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one."

>It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Speed, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day's work. We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast.

>For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest guys out there.

>>32923990
They're unmanned and they aren't powered, but I believe a few were used in Afghanistan

>>32924484
It's not a space station, it's a space battleship.
They build it on the ground and launch it into orbit with an orion drive.

>>32917527
F

>>32922839
it looks like the lovechild of an F4 and an F16

>>32918515
You can thank the USAF for killing that one.

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>>32923990
dat ass

>>32923990
now I need to play some mass effect 2

>>32924782
Thanks anon, started off slow, but a bug grin sloely grew as I read it. You've probably mentioned it, but where's it from?

>>32925089
My pleasure anon, it's from the book Sled Driver : Flying the World's Fastest Jet.

>>32925015
10/10

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>>32915617
what, no one is talking about this one !?

>>32922492
Also it's a twin seater, looks like it may be stealthier by the shaping alone, but modern materials probably make up for it on the Lightning

>>32924782
Lovely story anon.

>>32922752
>>32919363
I'll never understand why you people hate Sprey, he is one of the last embodiments on John Boyd

>>32923848
the F-5 is a TOTAL LEMON. What our pilots need is the tried and tested F-86. 20mm cannon are unreliable and the bullets are so large that they literally FALL OUT OF THE SKY!

>>32925842
some people can handle the truth. that's why the hate him.

>>32924242
Y designation is for prototypes, X designation is for experimental aircraft. Seeing as the YF-23 was a precursor to a hypothetical production model, it can't be experimental. X-planes like the X-29 are never meant to go into production, they are just technology testers.

>>32925880
Please tell me this isn't bait

>>32915617
why the fuck did we dismantle these

REEEEE


>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH78rEz21AQ
I mean look at that fucking firing rate. And it has a fucking motorized driveable carriage

>>32925842
Boyd was a mediocre pilot (never fired his guns during his only combat tour in Korea and intentionally skipped another combat tour in Vietnam for a desk job) who happened to find a way to categorise conflict - the OODA Loop, a 'system' so basic that it can be applied to almost every action you take in your daily life (Observation: I'm hungry > Orientation: the kitchen is that way > Decision: I'll make a sandwich > Action: Sandwich is made) - in a way which pleases corporate yes-men and self-help gurus aka individuals who can ass-kiss and manipulate their way into gaining media coverage for their whack job theories. Boyd himself was nothing special and having flown flying only subsonic korean war-era jets in combat his experiences were and remain largely irrelevant in terms of modern day air combat

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>>32925916

>>32925916
Poo in the loo arty best arty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaK1jFg8JBE

>>32915622
Dafuq is is with F-20 fetishists? It's less suitable for multimission work and upgrades like CFTs and external pods than F-16. Allah help those teeny wings if the AF tried to make that bird a three-bagger + 4 JDAMS (or the other usual loads) + AMRAAM.

F-20 was another, better F-104 point defense fighter. That's all, that's not enough, buhfuckingbye.

>>32925925
His tour in Vietnam was cancelled, and he had no kills in Korea simply because he never had the chance. You've very clearly done no research on the man, how can you say that he was a medicore pilot when he was top of his class at FWS and was invited to be an instructor before even leaving the school. You say OODA Loop was nothing special, but the fact is that he did it and no one else had. You also conveniently left out he and Christie's EM theory. For the love of god, read the book.

>>32926084
>Teeny wings
Defend the F-35, come on, do it

>>32918368
MML is under development and much more versatile than MMEV.

http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1676424-high-tech-army-missiles-destroy-enemy-attacks

>>32919334
Criminals are a terrible choice for military missions though retards love the idea.

>>32917527
F

>>32917527
>rest in peace, you were too good for us

You or I don't fucking need to know about the black programs which replaced SRs long ago. I really detest the civilian mindset that if they don't see it, it doesn't exist. Transatmospheric airframes make the SR look like a broken moped by comparison. It was a very nice aircraft in ancient times. Those times are fucking OVER.

>>32921392
ill nuke my way into orbit
or
metroid ball jump

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Supersonic harrier

>>32926339
I would take my bollocks off with a rusty cheese-grater to revive the Kestrel project in a modern guise.

>>32926111
Lifting body.

>>32926466
>Whats the best military project to have been killed off by their respective government?
>killed off

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>>32926520

>>32923447
>>32922077

That's just sad..

>>32915622
F-5 is masterpiece but f-20? nah

>>32926492
Uh huh, citate me

Legacy fighters also produce lift of the body, I'm not sure you know how wing area is calculated. Kinematic performance of the F-35 is sub par to almost all legacy fighter, the F-20 had an extremely low drag, a very light weight and a very hot engine. The often said "45% body lift" of the F-35 is matched by the F-16 when turning. Can you honestly say that the F-35 has less drag and better lift than an F-16?

>>32925708
because it would have sucked.

>>32925708
Because you can't kill off something that never existed

Super Tomcat 21

Proposals by Northrop Grumman to improve the F-14 with electronic controls, thrust vectoring engines, supercruise, and other avionics improvements.
Dropped in favor of the F/A-18 Super Hornet and the F-35. Program killed by Cheney which condemned the F-14 to be scrapped. Thanks, Dick.

>>32926744
>The often said "45% body lift" of the F-35 is matched by the F-16 when turning
correct, it is matched while the F-16 is turning, with an increased AoA deflecting air - drastically increasing drag

As for the wing area
F-16C Block 50: 27.87 m2
F-35A: 42.7 m2
F-35C: 62.1 m2

A 50% increase in wing area for the F-35A or a 120% increase for the F-35C

>>32915744
If your enemies steal your secrets. You win.

>>32917628
>Too expensive.

It was more so that drone tech was just on the horizon and by nature, a ground masking helo is already stealthy.

Despite how cool it was, there wasn't actually a whole lot of use for the Commanche, nor was it much of a better attack helo than the Apache, or its radar signature prove uselful in the war on terror

>>32916718

The commanche has a fraction of the firepower of the Cheyanne.

The Cheyanne carried a 7.62x51 minigun, a 30mm cannon and a 40mm grenade launcher. And the 30mm showed first round hits within ten inches at 2000 meters.

>>32927010
Wing area / mass = wing loading

Wing loading is the important number, not wing area.

F-20: 81lb/ft^2
F-16: 88.3 lb/ft^2
F-35A: 107.7 lb/ft^2

Wing loading will be less on the C variant but will not match, the larger still adds more weight. Understand?

>>32915976
Didn't really fit into the organisation of the air force. It was a private venture aimed mostly at Saudi Arabia, France might have bought a batch if the Saudi ordered it, but SA prefered the F-15.

>>32922563

6 turning and four burning. Things were beasts but quickly outdated.

>>32917350
I read something about this, but why is this better than a mi-24?

>>32915617
Slavery

>>32917662
You-owe-me-a-new-pair-of-pants/10

WHAT IS THIS! Why am I only seeing his now?

>>32927267
filename you scrub

>>32927085
Good job trying to move the goalposts there bruh, Your last post was specifically listing wing area, not wing loading.

And as for wing loading
It's surprising I know larger fighters weigh more, shocking isn't it.

It's almost as though their coming to the decision an old lightweight frame with minimal internal fuel requiring extra RCS and parasitic drag from droptanks is less effective than having a larger more powerful aircraft, that can have all they systems that they currently mounted externally built in and carry 70% more fuel than with fully laden conformal tanks, these tanks increase the wing loading to 99.66lb ft assuming the tanks themselves weight nothing, only factoring in the weight of the additional fuel
Your figure of 88.3 is for the Block 50, the figure you need is for the 50+ when conformals where added

>>32927374
How the fuck am I moving "the goalposts", the discussion was about how small wings on aircraft make it less agile, the "wing area" figure alone has no relevance until it is put into the wing loading equation. Larger fighter? Yeah, correct, it is a large fighter, so why the did Lockmart go with stubby wings. Do you also defend the F-104?

The thing about legacy fighters is that they can carry extra fuel, and then drop the drag penalty if need be. An F-35 cannot "drop" it's fat frame, unloaded or loaded internally it still has the same amount of drag built into it. An F-16 will drop it's tanks if it is going to engage in a knife fight, you know that full well so stop trying to be difficult.

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>>32921363

The decommissioning of the SR71 is a signpost in the decline of Western civilization.

We could have been colonizing Mars right now.

Instead we have converted our entire government, economy, and society to subsidizing third world immigrants who are making us a minority in the greatest country the world has ever seen. The country that our ancestors fought, bled, sweated, and carved out of the wilderness.

When we're gone, the mud people will rape our granddaughters and spit on our graves.

Mankind will never touch the stars without us. Our species will go extinct, and the Earth will return back to the darkness from which we came.

>>32922470
Check out what SpaceX is up to. They have plans for a Mars Colony rocket that will give you hope again.

>>32927437
F-35 is objectively proven to have better nosepointing ability and higher aoa than the F-16, tanks or no.

>>32927137
Aka:
2 turning, 2 burning, 2 smoking, 2 choking and 2 more unaccounted for

>>32922514
(((Humanity)))

>>32923457

The SR-71 had a issue - it leaked like a sieve on the ground. Rotating for takeoff would occasionally set fire to the JP-7 on the runway leaving a burning trail behind it much like the Road Runner. Once the aircraft's skin heated up in flight it would seal up.

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>>32926243
Please no bully, she's sensitive

>>32927437
>An F-16 will drop it's tanks if it is going to engage in a knife fight
How often has any F-16 in any combat scenario in the last 30 years, actually dropped it's "Drop" tanks?
You know as well as I do that is not standard practice as drop tanks are not free

Your post >>32926744
>Legacy fighters also produce lift of the body, I'm not sure you know how wing area is calculated.
>wing area

But as I was saying, the figures you cited
>F-16: 88.3 lb/ft^2
Is the F-16C Block 50, Pre CFT fit on the Block 50+

26,500 lb takeoff wieght divide by wing area of 300ft gives you your figure of 88.3 lb/ft2
This is based on an internal fuel load of only 7,000 pounds

The CFT's add 375gal per tank, at a weight of 7lb/gal for fuel each tank adds 2600lb per tank
5200lb total

Ergo Full CFT takeoff weight = 31700lb
I will be generous and assume the CFT's have not reduced the wing area (Which by necessity they do) and use the 300ft wing area
ergo
31700 / 300 = 105.66lb/ft2

Thus The F-16C block 50+ with CFT = 105.66lb/ft2, not including the reduced wing (lift body) area of the CFT or the weight of the CFT's themselves

105.66 with 13k lb fuel for the F-16 with CFT's
107.7 with 18.5K lb of fuel for the F-35A

So now we have the Question of the remaining 5500lb (785gal) of fuel

2 standard drop tanks = 300 gal capacity per tank = 4200lb

F-16C With CFT = 31700 + 4200 in 2 tanks = 35900

so 35900lb divide by 300ft wing area = 119lb/ft2 for an F-16C with 2 drop tanks and CFTs

so, for the F-16 to carry 1000lb less fuel than the F-35 carries INTERNALLY in needs full CFTs and 2 drop tanks, these 2 facts together increase the F-16's wing loading to above that of the F-35

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>>32927565
AoA is a show of controllability, not agility, sustained and instantaneous turn Gs are the most important part and a high wing loading inhibits performance in this regard. Similarly to the use of thrust vectoring to liberally in a phone booth results in a good opportunity for guns but it also sucks up your forward momentum - an F-35 pulling 80* AoA is going to come up guns on an F-16, but nosing back into the trail the F-16 will have outrun the F-35.

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>>32922563
>Look up cockpit images out of curiosity
>See flight engineer's station
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

>>32927829
Nice post, it certainly LOOKS impressive. Your whole argument revolves around not dropping your tanks. So you actually genuinely think that if an F-16 was about to merge with an Su-35 it wouldn't drop it's tanks because they are "not free"? You're absolutely delusional.

>>32927843
Oh god I want to flip all those switches, push all those buttons and watch all those gauges move... This is fucking pornographic, that is the best control panel I've ever seen on anything.

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>>32927865
I quite like this one, though it's not quite so mad

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>>32927924
Plenty of room inside a flying boat.

Do non-plane control panels count?

>>32927858
>Your whole argument revolves around not dropping your tanks
No it doesn't, Conformal fuel tanks cannot be dropped, drop tanks can.

Thus The F-16C block 50+ with CFT = 105.66lb/ft2, not including the reduced wing (lift body) area of the CFT or the weight of the CFT's themselves

Maybe since this thread hit is bump limit, someone could make a thread for cockpits/ crew positions.
Seems like it could be interesting.

>>32927830
Not true, when it's controlled high AOA flight.

In essence a clean F-35 will have a much higher instant turn rate but lower sustained than a clean F-16.

in the age of hobs missiles, nose pointing is everything.

>>32927858
Nice reply, certainly LOOKS like your trying not to be a disingenuous fuck.

So you actually think a F-16 would be taking on an Su-35 as opposed to bugging out and calling for F-22's and F-35 to rape its ass wide open before the Su-35 knows they exist? You're absolutely delusional

Try reading someones reply past the 1st 3 lines, you might learn something.

>>32917527
Lo, tho I fly through the valley of death, I fear no evil. For I am at 80,000 feet and climbing at Mach 3+.

>>32928094
I've got nothing to learn from "F-22 and F-35s are invincible" bottom feeders, but thank you.

>>32928094
OK look, I see two options here:

1. We get into a heated discussion over your "before the Su-35 knows they exist" comment and how passive radar, IRST and RWR come into the discussion.

2. We agree to disagree and go spend our time doing something more productive

>>32917527
F

>>32928435
it was more a snark at the passive aggressive "You're absolutely delusional"

The guy who posted the post with regards wing loadings worked out a reasonable ammount of maths that is really basic once you realize it, and it isn't based on the idea of not dropping tanks and it explains why the USAF is going for the F-35 as opposed to refitting CFT's to their F-16's

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>>32915631
>Project MARAUDER.
>The weapon was able to produce doughnut-shaped rings of plasma and balls of lightning that exploded with devastating thermal and mechanical effects when hitting their target and produced pulse of electromagnetic radiation that could scramble electronics.

>>32928738
I may have boiled over slightly there...

He isn't wrong, and the F-35 DOES have a far greater range than the F16. That was a good decision on Lockmart's part. All I was saying (angrily) was that the F-16 has the option to drop the drag of it's tanks if the situation demands it.

>>32926243
This.

Where do you think the shuttle's thermal protection system's metamaterials tech came from when it magically sprouted from nowhere in the late 70s, completely mature and ready to test on a live crew?

HINT: Lockheed, not Rockwell, owned the patents.

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>>32915800
I miss Convair, at least I have one of these near my house.

>>32928775
In the case of US Block 50's that don't carry the conformal fuel tanks yes.

All other nations Block50+ carry conformal tanks that cannot be dropped and reduce the wing loading to within 2lb/ft2 of the F-16.
The US chose not to fit the CFT's to reduce cost, in favor of having the F-35 with similiar wing loadings

In situations where the F-35 needs to have a lowe wing loading it is easily possible for it to carry a less than full fuel load

If an F-35A was launched with the same fuel load as an F-16, 7000lb as opposed to the full 18500lb tankage, the weight would only be 38500lb

Tha figure would make the F-35 have a wing loading of 83.7ft/lb2, lower than than of an F-16

>>32922522
Northrop was led on by the government when they had basically already decided on the F-16 but wanted to drive down its price.

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>>32921107
Yeah man, the whole plane is freakin' yuuuuge