Do you believe that all rifles should have irons sights? I was

>>32907594
Most modern glass is at least as durable as irons.

Iron sights are for old fudds

It's 2017, use a scope

>>32907594
Yee, see through scope mounts are severely underrated. Have them on my BLR.

Give one good reason to design a gun large enough for a scope, but WITHOUT irons.

>>32907665
Mounting irons on a featherweight profile barrel can put the barrel's integrity at risk

>>32907594
just 1v1 no scope the enemy

>>32908070
Aren't heavy barrels objectively superior to light barrels in every way other than simple weight?

>>32908082
For bench queens, yes

>>32908109
I don't know about you, but I don't hike within 10oz of my break limit.

>>32907620
t. I shoot from a bench under a covered awning and have never gotten my gun I pretend to have wet or dirty or dusty

>>32908129
That same 10oz difference on the end of a rifle sets it a world apart when you're trying to make quick offhand shots

>>32908189
Ah yeah, ISIS started recruiting deer, forgot about that.

>>32908174
Not him but I'd argue a swfa ss fixed scope is more durable than most irons

>>32908209
>muh ISIS
Do you like to LARP when you shoot from a bench?

>>32908268
No, but I don't 360 wall bang when I'm hunting either.

>>32907594
I think it's retarded to have irons on a rifle with passive optics.

It's a contingency that will never come to pass.

>>32907594
If SHTF and everyone has a gun with optics. Your gun would be the last to be stolen if it only had iron sights. Like that retarded kid that still uses velcro shoes even though everyones already on laces, you could steal his velcro shoes but it'll just make you the new retard.

>>32908109
>having bad eyes

>>32908456
>>32908354

>>32908338
they're nice if the scope is high enough so you can see the irons under them. A high-power scope is pretty bad for close quarters.

>>32908174

>t. I pretend to operate and went for a hike with my nugget once so I'm super experienced

Have you had a scope fail? Do you own any? I'm interested to hear about your extensive experience.

Iron sights should be completely phased out
They inhibit rifle performace by adding bulk and weight while occupying rail space and pushing useful optics forward

Backup irons have never been used in their intended purpose and are a range queen novelty

>>32907665

If you mount an optic in such a way that you get a proper cheekweld (i.e. low), your mounts and rings obscure the sights anyways. If you have a rifle that's intended for precision and to be used with optics, there's just no point in putting them on. If anything they're going to obscure part of your sight picture, and will get removed.

>>32907636

See through scope mounts suck donkey dick. Enjoy your chin weld and parallax issues.

>>32908216
if you drop a rifle on the ground scope-down its probably going to break. if you drop a rifle on the ground irons down, it may break, but you can probably fix them

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>>32908070
>featherweight barrel

>>32908533
>Iron sights should be completely phased out
>They inhibit rifle performace by adding bulk and weight while occupying rail space and pushing useful optics forward
>Backup irons have never been used in their intended purpose and are a range queen novelty
are you implying nobody has ever broken their scope? moron

>>32908577

I've had both happen unfortunately.

Didn't break the scope. Did have to figure out how to straighten the front sight blade on a 94 Winchester, and my hunt was over until it was sorted.

Also, I'll leave this here

http://soldiersystems.net/2016/08/13/gunfighter-moment-frank-proctor-16/

>>32908643
Nobody has ever broken a scope and reverted to iron sights

Name one time this has happened

>>32908689
that time i broke my scope and reverted to irons

t. Tier 0 operator

Holy shit, I hope you people are fucking around.

Irons are way more durable than scopes. They just are. They are big chunks of steel compared to literal glass in a metal tube.

Why restrict yourself? Learn to shoot accurately with both, pick whatever works for the intended purpose. It'd be fucking dumb to put a scope on a shotgun, the same reason it would be fucking dumb to use irons for a 500+ yard shot.

But hey, that last one was actually done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55hBG21su7w

lern to git gud

>>32908696
Nobody has ever used iron sights in a real engagement. In theory you may be able to use them to align your rifle toward the target, but the details have never been worked out.

Iron sights are literally a meme. Nowhere in history has a professional ever used iron sights

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>>32907594

i like shooting irons, its a good challenge; not to say shooting with a magnified scope cant be a challenge, but its my preference to shoot irons.


pic related, its me

>>32908737
>Iron sights are literally a meme. Nowhere in history has a professional ever used iron sights
now i get it. youre trolling

hey

hey guys

hey guys check out this idea

buy two scopes

do you even prep?

>>32908689
>>32908696
Iron sights do not physically exist

The idea of iron sights has been proposed but they have never been observed; scientists do not have an accurate measurement system to record them in an iron sight event

>>32907594
>all rifles
no. it's not really necissary for ALL rifles to have iron sights.
>SHTF
yes. if anything happens to your optics (cracked, scratched, foggy, too dark, etc.) it's nice to be able to use the irons. quick release or just high-rise mounts are good.

even for hunting I like them. sure, I plan to shoot something far away (why else would I have a scope) but when stalking (yes, REAL hunting) you I sometimes happen upon a target of opportunity at a close range. Inside 50 yards I'd rather use iron sights and shoot offhand. my scope has 6x minimum power so it's a bitch for anything even a little bit close.

FYI a bolt action that's optics ready AND has iron sights is usually referred too as a "scout rifle".

All that being said.... running JUST irons on a rifle is not a great idea IMO. It's just a waste. These days, iron sights are best served as a back-up sight. optics are just better in pretty much every way.

>>32908750
no, that wasn't me

>>32908577
The SWFA SS is retard durable.

>>32908758
>Taking a nice afternoon at the range in post-SHTF dystopia to sight in another scope

>>32908826
I've read many good things about those, kind of want

>>32908689
Out clearing rabbits once and my rear scope clamp came lose, realised it after my shots started going wild, slid the scope mount off and finished the rest of the day with irons.
Got about 40 that day.

>>32907594
It's the Year of Our Lord 2017. It's time to give up the SHTF meme.

>>32908872
that did not happen

>>32908830
you can sight in a scope good enough as long as you have like 10 minutes and something to shoot at

have you ever even left your house??

>>32907594
>Do you believe that all rifles should have irons sights?
>I was thinking, if SHTF and your glass broke what would you do if you didnt have irons? Since you cant go out and buy a new scope, and assuming you cant barter for a new one what would you do?
>Having thought about this alot i have come to hate glass on rifles, and try to only use irons


I have lots of scopes.

>>32908082
>Aren't heavy barrels objectively superior to light barrels in every way other than simple weight?

Yes due to barrel harmonics. However adding a weight to the end of a light barrel, damping harmonic nodes or fluting can also help. It is a trade off. Thin barrels are indisputably shit in any gun.

>>32908920
>have you ever even left your house??
>implying this man lives indoors, and not under a bridge posting from his obama phone

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Scopes breaking is a fucking meme

People act like these things are spontaneously bursting into clouds of powdered glass and magic. When's the last time you saw a good one break? They're durable as fuck, there's a good chance that any fall hard enough to fuck an optic up would not only bend or distort your irons, but break stocks etc.

Here's Frank Proctor talking about why he ditched using BUIS's entirely

http://soldiersystems.net/2016/08/13/gunfighter-moment-frank-proctor-16/

Here's cringelord Larry Snickers shooting an AR w/ aimpoint with no8 birdshot (granted a few pellets only), running over it with a jeep 3 times on dirt and on gravel, dropping it optic down 3 times including from a helicopter, and blowing it up. It still works by the end to a degree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUASQMt5l8

Here's a guy literally throwing a Nightforce like a baseball, and hammering shit with it on a fencepost before remounting it on a rifle and shooting with no loss of zero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3F6Ye1IWM

Heres another vid of some guys giving a US Optics SN3 the same treatment. Once again no loss of zero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ewpwPTA6Q

Another aimpoint, this time used for batting practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOyZdnpKs4

>>32908872

>rear scope clamp
>slid scope mount off
>got about 40

ehhhhhhhh....

>>32908881
This pls

>>32907636
I only like those on 22

>>32908871
Super cheap for the quality you get. Some people say they're up there with high end brands like Steiner on tracking. Glass was comparable with a Vortex I looked through tbch.

>>32907594
I used to believe exactly that but then I started fucking around with optics on my chinese M14 and I gave up.
There's just no winning this battle, might as well be a true battle rifleboo and git gud with iron sights.

>>32909351
Gracias you're practically selling me one and I don't even have a bolt gun to put it on

>>32909370
Put on a semi faglord. They come in 6x. https://youtu.be/nky0voYC7gQ

>>32908577
if you drop a 10lb rifle with a swfa ss on it, scope side down from 10ft in the air it wont break

sniper101 did it in one of his vids

>>32909368
>exactly the opposite of that*
How did I misread that badly

>>32909389
ok thanks mom

>>32909489
Welcum son

>>32908737
>not know Simo

Literally confirmed for not knowing what the fuck you are talking about

>>32910400
this

>>32907594
Sako 85 Black Bear, hooded front sight, flip up v notch mid barrel...still scope usable.

>>32908689
Vietnam, WWII...

>>32907594
I think a bead like on shotguns should exist standard incase you don't have a working scope...basically you are just aiming down the batrel like a musket.

>what if your optic breaks?
Just as likely to happen as your irons breaking.

>>32908577
8541 tactical did a test like that on a bushy 6-24 and iirc on grass the scope held up but once he started dropping it on concrete it got screwed up but I'd say even a rifle that had irons only would have screwed up as well if dropped onto concrete

>>32908830
Mechanical zero at 50yds then shoot 3-5 rounds to confirm zero and then g2g. If you can't get it done at 50yds you shouldn't be shooting with glass anyways or your scope isn't on secure

>>32909196
Should be noted that perception of optics is heavily skewed by living in desert and fighting in the desert.

>>32908174
I regularly go hunting and put my scopes and irons through hell.
Gotta remember that if you knock an iron you fuck it up too anon, scope at least have a stronger shape than simply bits of metal jutting off a pipe.
>pro hint this is the reason for the cylindrical irons at the front of newer varmints

>>32908737
>nowhere in history has a professional ever used iron sights

Except for every military engagement involving firearms up until 20-30 years ago. Regular soldiers relied on irons.

>>32908977
>"posting from his obama phone"

What is this meme?

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>>32908689

>>32911680

Care to elaborate? Optics are superior to irons in low light environments, and 2-3x magnification really doesn't hurt time in snap shots. I think our view of optics is being skewed by luddites.

>>32909368
>Chinese M14

This may be the root of your frustrations anon.

>>32914809
Rain, snow, freezing temperatures. Things that are lacking in the desert.

>>32916079

I do not live in a desert. I split my time between coastal & northern BC. Rain, snow, etc.

When visibility is poor, optics are even more useful. Hell, that's why my rifles wear them. Despite everyone in this thread going "hurr git gud," shooting man sized silhouettes with irons is not difficult at 1pm in sunny weather. Ramp up your ladder sight to the desired range and have at it. Try it at dusk in a drizzle and all of a sudden you can't see your front blade, or the target, and it's getting darker.

All optics do is help you to see your target better. I don't understand why people think that with more challenging conditions, the more limited sighting option is superior.

>>32907594
all guns should have irons if only for
A E S T H E T I C
My gun has just enough of a Pic rail for scope pillars that I could mount a set of back up irons under it.

Planning on having the LGS cut dovetails in my next barrel anyway so I can git gud with irons, putting my current scope on a different gun eventually anyway.

>>32917246
BTW since I'm thinking about it, I'm doing a hooded front sight with and extra fine bead and torn between a peep sight in the back and a notch. what's your take on the best rear iron sight?

>>32917246
>Planning on having the LGS cut dovetails in my next barrel
Do it yourself with a dremel like a good bubba

I think so. I want to be able to shoot my gun right away without dropping an extra few hundred dollars on glass. I want to get a feel for my rifle before I decide what kind of optic I want on it. I really wish more bolt guns had irons.

What's the general consensus on canted sights? In the event that an optic were to become unusable, and you didn't have or where unable to use irons through or because of the optic. I'd think canted iron sights would serve a purpose. Plus I think they're pretty cool.

>inb4 CoDKiddie

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>>32918275
Forgot pic.

Or even maybe just a back up red dot or something instead of 2 piece irons.

>>32907594
of course, when you first buy your weapon you should zero your iron sites than zero your scope (if you have one). Always have a back-up. It's common sense.

>>32918299
looks dumb tbqh

>>32918382
Really? Which is quite a subjective opinion really, as I myself think they're pretty neat. But do you think they're a viable option for use?

I think of a SHTF rifle to be more of an AR or AK, which should probably have irons + red dot or optic. If your one rifle is a bolt gun for deer, just go with a small 9x or less that rides real low. It won't break from mishandling, but if you're worried about it just braise a bead onto the top at the muzzle like a shotgun and call it good.

>>32918275
They are kinda bulky for back up. It would be nice to see micro sights rail mounted directly at 2 o'clock position.

>>32908533
>Iron sights should be completely phased out
>They inhibit rifle performace by adding bulk and weight
>bulk
>weight
>irons
wat the fuck

>>32916079
>freezing temperatures
>lacking in the desert

Idiot.

>>32918275
>>32918299
Overly complex solution to a problem inherent with picatinny rail mounts desu.