Based on what I've read, the Mi-24's usage was not

That was just how they were doctrinally employed by the Soviets, Mi24s and 35s are perfectly capable of standoff. As for Syrians, they use them as bombers for some reason which will naturally expose them to AA.

Those tactics where designed in the days of ineffective MANPADS, SAMS with several miute deployment cycles and limited Radar guided AAA.

It was designed to function more as an ultra low level NOE strike aircraft, in and out, as opposed to the standoff function western Helos perform

File: 1477766116715.jpg (578KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

578KB, 1200x800px

>>32895774
Mi-28s and KA-52s are more standoff in function.

>>32895774
>tahe HIND
>strip cargo bay BS away
>end up with somethim vaguely resembling the Sikorsky CH-54 Tarhe
>get more horsepower for more ordnance
>????
>PROFIT!

>>32895774
>they were often highly exposed to simple AA guns

You need big guns for these. Even the pure titanium rotors can take BMG hits.

>so is the Mi-24 really a worrisome Soviet/Russian weapon after all?

They're very effective at their jobs.

The guys flying them in Syria are top notch.

>>32896106
>They're very effective at their jobs.
They've already lost like, 3-6 of them.

The Apache meanwhile has never been downed in combat.

>>32895774
They work well, they just have high loss rates due to the fact that the doctrine which shaped their design and subsequent employment has been outmoded by the arrival of effective MANPADS.

>>32896487
>The Apache meanwhile has never been downed in combat.
wut?

>>32896487

Hahahah, my favorite one is the peasant with a AK who capped the pilot in the gulf war.

>>32895774
>Based on what I've read, the Mi-24's usage was not to sit back with it's long range ATGMs and use standoff attacks, but rather fly straight into the enemy and strafe them with it's cannon and rockets, which are cool against infantry but not so much against tanks.
That's just one way of using it for particular missions, anon. And I'd say that with its standoff weapons retaining most of their accuracy even while moving unlike Apaches that have to hover all the while, they are even better in the standoff role when most modern tanks today have thermal sights capable of spotting helos and low flying aircraft at far greater ranges the latter two can spot the former due primarily to ground clutter.

>However we've also seen in Aghanistan, Syria, etc. that this is not a very good idea since they were often highly exposed to simple AA guns and the new stinger, so is the Mi-24 really a worrisome Soviet/Russian weapon after all?
The solution against AA guns is good intel of the ground prior to approach and simple fire and movement with adequate armoring. The simple fact is that unless you are faced with automated FCS AA guns which are rather fewer than small-arms, HMGs and the occasional 23 mm guns. and in turn are vulnerable to soft-kill countermeasures, strafing around is enough to avoid getting peppered.
Stingers are a meme, what with the existence of IR missile countermeasures that are very effective, but then again not everyone is upgrading with it.

>>32899544
>unlike Apaches that have to hover all the while,
This is bullshit on all levels.

Your second paragraph is also mostly bullshit.

>>32899555
But its fresh bullshit, which is a nice change

>>32896487
>Apache has never been downed in combat
> Heavy antiaircraft and small arms fire targeted the helicopters. Every single helicopter on the mission was hit and one even survived a direct hit from a rocket-propelled grenade.[7] The flight turned back towards base, with some of the helicopters on fire and others running on one engine or shot full of holes. One Apache was brought down and crash-landed in a marsh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Najaf_(2003)

>>32899587
>amritards claiming Apaches never been shot down
>vatiks claiming Apaches are only accurate when hovering

This thread is going places.

>>32899617
Getting my popcorn ready

File: Sikorsky S-67 Black Hawk.jpg (242KB, 1600x1055px) Image search: [Google]

242KB, 1600x1055px

>>32895948

Mi-28 was supposed to be just that, then small changes led to avalanche of other small changes, decades of delays and they ended up with Mi-28 we know today.

Sikorsky did something kinda similar with Sea King in 70's, ending up with sort of 'murrica edition of Hind. They left a small cabin with room for about 8 troops with gear due to aerodynamics, capacity would be 15 if troops are packed like sardines.

>>32895774
Mi-24 is love, but to be perfectly honest, they arent very good at hovering.

>>32899544
I always thought Mi-24 was developed with Vietnam War in mind, where lots of thin-skinned American helicopters were lost to AA gunfire. Mi-24 was armored to counter that threat, but then MANPADs were introduced which made adding countermeasures necessary.

>>32895774
Which is what they do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVBw6d4KEYA

>A HIND D?

>>32899653
Mi-24 is not as armored as Russians would like to tout.

It's rotors (both), gearbox, and especially engines are just as vulnerable as any other helo.

>>32899756
I wonder how it would have gone in the Vietnam war if the US had used a helicopter like the Hind instead of the Huey.

>>32895774
Even rockets and cannon are used at some standoff, the helicopter breaks off to the side after firing to avoid overflying the target to not get shot to all hell by small arms

>>32899634
Needs more rocket pods.

>>32899756
Main Achilles heel of Mi-24 is hydraulic system. In their indigenous genius slavs forgot to install cut off valves in the hydraulic lanes, single penetration bleeds out all fluid.

>>32895774
How do expect them to be used? Afghanistan is a country with high mountains. Heavy Hind had troubles for general operating on that altitudes, not just about hovering. And it was 80th, do you see any thermals or advanced optics on Hinds? You watched too much video's from Iraq war.

>>32899964
Sounds like something that could have been retrofitted quite easily

>>32896106
>Even the pure titanium rotors can take BMG hits.

If it can take BMG hits then it probably ain't pure titanium. Mild steel is harder and stronger than that.

File: 1485973589370.png (82KB, 928x336px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 928x336px

>>32895912

Yet we never see gun camera footage of either of them. Just unguided rocket dumps, which could be done with any old Su-22.


I'm really unimpressed by the capabilities and utilization of Russian forces in Syria.

File: 1376535235329.jpg (137KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 1920x1200px

>>32905004
>never
nigga what
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgmSJghlqo
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMD-Vgw-AGI
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4TGOJgon4
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXyUO5RXXDo
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ91OQXRFNc

>>32895774
More importantly, where would I go to find Mi-24 porn?

>>32895835
Soviets used them as bombers in Afghanistan as well.

They could hold 1000kg of bombs and sometimes dropped thermobaric weapons.
The idea is that they could provide static air cover, drop a world of hurt very accurately with little to no cost, then continue to provide support with its cannon, machine guns and rockets.

>>32906582
idk but i know there is this type of bio mechanical shit in which regular machines of war are basically living and they fuck or get fucked by us.

>>32906582
>Tfw sexually identify as an attack helicopter, but I'm more romantically interested in strategic lift aircraft.

File: Screenshot_2017-02-07-12-06-33_com.chrome.beta_1486440428182.jpg (127KB, 720x1016px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 720x1016px

>>32896487
>The Apache meanwhile has never been downed in combat

Hurr

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_attack_on_Karbala

And this is against those who only used 60s AA. Imagine what the shitfest might look like if the iraqi had appreciable number of Manpads

>Standoff

All I've seen are cams of them shooting from 6km away, which is not Standoff.

>>32908160
Wow, so losing 1 Apache at the cost of 18+ kills is somehow equated to failure?

Also
>not posting the American victory part of the wiki page

way to skew the narrative

File: Q6hPmz.gif (3MB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 320x180px

>>32908528
>not posting the American victory part of the wiki page
>The Medina Division sustained only limited damage during the engagement, and it is considered Iraq's only victory of the invasion.

Toppest of keks

Also,
>losing 1 Apaches
>1 crashed and subsequently destroyed
>1 shot down
2 damaged beyond repair
>american cannot into kindergarten-tier arithmetics

File: Abrams_Air_Defense.png (203KB, 800x634px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 800x634px

>>32908160

Triple A is potentially more dangerous to helicopters than MANPADs. The thing is that MANPADs are cheaper and more mobile, cheaper because those can be operated with much less personnel than guns and more mobile because triple AAA takes time to deploy, especially towed guns and deployment becomes even slower when towed gun is heavier or just has more sophisticated FCS.

When it comes know nothings of /k/ shit on AAA and SPAAG's because west has gotten rid of most of those, they didn't get rid of because they wanted, but because of budget cuts.

Even Americans, it is just that pretty much all US SPAAG and point defense SAM projects heavier than MANPADs have been utter failures, what got into production was always less sophisticated interim solution or nothing.

>>32908501

It is standoff distance against light AAA and MANPADs.

>>32908528

From pure return of investment point of view, twelve obsolete tanks and bunch of just as obsolete AAA guns with goatfucker crews. Just two captured pilots is more than that, not to mention 4 helicopters.

>>32905004
It's called cost-effectiveness

>>32895835
>Mi24s and 35s are perfectly capable of standoff.

Are they? from what I read the Mi-24 when fully loaded isn't capable of hovering in place, it even has to take off on a runway.

>>32909729
This turnes my peepee into a slightly larger peepee

>>32911455
this was in afgan war, due altitude

>>32895774
>black hind
muh dick

Will Mi-28N carry Hermes-A? Or is it too heavy?

>>32905098
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4TGOJgon4

What platform is this footage from? Mi-35?

The sight picture is very different from the Mi-28 (GOES 521 I assume) in the other videos

>>32911907
Iraqi Gazelle or something like that.

>>32908528
Well the claim of previous post was that no apache has never been downed in combat.

>>32908528
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

File: this havoc is so fierce it has a bayonet on its cannon.jpg (923KB, 1200x908px) Image search: [Google]

923KB, 1200x908px

>>32895948
>get more horsepower for more ordnance
Nigger, Mi-35 and Mi-28 already have 2×2200 hp, and Ka-52 is 2x2400hp. How much more do you possibly need?

File: mi-24a with fenestron.jpg (35KB, 650x216px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 650x216px

>>32911510

File: (you).png (3KB, 284x115px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 284x115px

>>32908528
>someone claims apaches were never shot down
>post evidence
>BUT AMERICA WON YOU JUST JEALOUS

way to move the goalposts you turbosperg

File: mi-24p pilot laugh.jpg (99KB, 600x1604px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 600x1604px

The last face the mujahid sees.

File: mi-35p un.jpg (469KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

469KB, 1920x1080px

Don't have any more black Hinds, so have a white one.

>>32908528
>not posting the American victory part of the wiki page
look it up, the amicans lost that one battle

>>32912121
All of it

File: mi-26 (1).jpg (278KB, 1200x900px) Image search: [Google]

278KB, 1200x900px

>>32912799
Ok.
>Powerplant: 2 × Lotarev D-136 turboshafts, 8,500 kW (11,399 shp) each

File: mil_mi-26.jpg (314KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

314KB, 1200x800px

>>32912992
Mi-26
>when you're soo mad, that you want to deliver ballistic missile to enemy personally


(part of its job is to transport ballistic missiles)

File: 1472692395669.jpg (833KB, 1450x980px) Image search: [Google]

833KB, 1450x980px

>>32912165
got your back

File: 14425627946262.jpg (190KB, 1000x667px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 1000x667px

>>32913133
a lot of these niggers

File: 1465830786464.jpg (432KB, 2048x1492px) Image search: [Google]

432KB, 2048x1492px

>>32913180

File: mi-6prtbv with r-17v missile.jpg (76KB, 1024x607px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 1024x607px

>>32913108
It's job was to transport military equipment in general. Transport, not deploy. Mi-6PRTBV is where the shit's at. The modification was meant to DEPLOY tactical ballistic missiles with launch pads in theatre flying at treetop level in order to preform missile strikes from unexpected locations in a local nuclear conflict.

>>32913714
Now that's cool.

File: mi-6prtbv & r-17v missile.jpg (55KB, 600x767px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 600x767px

>>32913733

>>32904700
>Not making helicopter blades out of Ti-5553 alloy.

It's like you want the helicopter rotor to become unbalanced when taking fire.

>not building the entire helicopter frame and skin out of Ti-5553 alloy

Sure, the price per helicopter would increase astronomically.. but hey, probably worth it.

File: mi-6rvk with 9k53 luna-mv missile.jpg (44KB, 500x328px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 500x328px

https://books.google.de/books?id=Myr3CwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA9&ots=Ny5Sr6w8Ka&dq=Mi-6PRTBV&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>32912121
For a second i thought that there was a bayonet on the gun.

File: Bell IA-407.jpg (68KB, 1023x682px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 1023x682px

>>32911907

>>32915892
forget Hiluxes with M40s and/or ZSU-23-2s mounted in the back, this is now officially the most kebab contraption I have ever seen

>>32915931
But this is how Bell builds them

It's a cut-price (but newer) Kiowa

>>32899859
Probably about the same..

It wasn't really a "war", it was technically a "conflict". The "loss" you're implying there never actually happened - the public didn't support it. Eventually we had to pull out or risk significant political upheaval.

no its russian

its shit

>>32917623
sure your mom would love it

File: uh-72a-lakota_005-ts600.jpg (30KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 600x400px

>>32915931

How so? It is basically Kiowa set up on newest variant of JetRanger family.

>>32915963
>It's a cut-price (but newer) Kiowa

Yet more capable. Laser designators, thermal sights other electro-optics have become much cheaper than those were when Kiowa was introduced.

>>32915963
>But this is how Bell builds them
>It's a cut-price (but newer) Kiowa
>>32921652
>How so? It is basically Kiowa set up on newest variant of JetRanger family.
so it's an American kebab, it's basically a flying technical

>>32921726
so at some point US government decided to start using drastic measures to stop wetbacks from arriving on boats?

>>32921732

The actual answer is that there was a movie produced in the Soviet Union that involved the US Coast Guard in some capacity but of course the Soviets couldn't just call up the USCG and ask them to loan out appropriate helicopters. So Hinds were used in the movie.

>>32921876
why wouldn't they just make the whole seat a cradle from moulded kevlar fiber plastered with epoxy?

File: Миль Ми-24 схема бронирования.jpg (79KB, 726x965px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 726x965px

>>32922533
Ahem.

File: 11351 oryol & whec-718 uscgc chase & 1155 admiral panteleyev.jpg (385KB, 2000x1361px) Image search: [Google]

385KB, 2000x1361px

>>32922521
>but of course the Soviets couldn't just call up the USCG and ask them to loan out appropriate helicopters
More like it was just cheaper to paint a Hind. Here's the said movie, btw:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103321/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0JKlC2U8EY
It is announced in the beginning that it's dedicated to USCG 200 year anniversary. The plot is essentially Russian and American coast guards hunting some bad guys.

File: UVolh.jpg (37KB, 392x480px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 392x480px

>>32922533
Here's the position of 4 mm thick armour plates.

>>32899493
I think it was actually a peasant with a nugget. I remember it vaguely cause I didn't frequent /k/ back then, but the faggots at militaryphotos lost thier minds.

File: 1297384481742.jpg (717KB, 1026x684px) Image search: [Google]

717KB, 1026x684px

I love Hinds

I'm sorry /k/

>>32921652
I doubt it is that capable. Bell 407 is still a commercial spec helicopter, which means it wouldn't be able to stand as much punishment as a proper military-spec helicopter

Military-spec helos had self-sealing fuel tanks, kevlar armor to protect pilots' compartments as well.as uprated engines and other overbuilt features. I bet none of them commercial helos had these features

>>32895774
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_KnT2yTsLI

>>32912165
Looks like something out of Evangelion.

>>32899493
There's cockpit footage of that and the pilot didn't get hit. The bullet merely golden BB'd something important enough to get him to RTB