Is 9x18 a meme? Do they actually make decent defensive ammo

>>32888601
They're hot little rounds, they'll definitely put a hole in somebody. I'd actually recommend hollow point if you're using it for personal defense.

>>32888607
Is there any practical use for them in this caliber saturated market? Do they hit some sort of goldilocks zone between a 380acp and 9mm? I'm asking because I'm trying to justify buying one.

>>32888671
>trying to justify buying one

The fact that it's a cool surplus piece that also makes for a decent cheap CC gun and will eventually go up in price is enough of a reason

>>32888671
Different anon here, i have a p83 wanad. I love that gun. The ballistics are right between those two. That being said you can get a bulgarain mak or p83 for just a touch of 200. So stop being a shit and just buy one.

>>32888601
So can you actually shoot .380 out of this or was that one anon bullshitting? I'm pretty sure that 9x18 has a slightly larger bore so I can't imagine it being all that accurate.

>>32888601
>Do they actually make decent defensive ammo for makarov that can compete with commercial 9mm?
No. You can get some absurd power out of 9x19 with modern loads. 9x18 and the maks limitations thanks to it's blowback action give makes 9x18 sadly lacking today.

9x18 is still a bullet, however, and will ruin someone's day real fast if they're shot with it, but it can't compete with 9x19.

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What ever happened to 9mm largo?
To me it seemed it was used in the STAR and Astra then disappeared.

>>32889428
As far as I know, it was only ever popular in Spain. So, it's pretty much irrelevant and antiquated.

I was also wondering if i should go with a 9x18 for my ccw

how does it compare to the 9x19 round?

Is it just sub-par soviet shit?

>>32889458
it's a slightly hotter .380

>>32889262
I have a radom p-64 and a bulgarian mak.

I have fired a FEG pa-63.

I keep suppressing a desire to buy a wanad, too. I'm not consciously a collector, but I seem to be acquiring a collection.

Think I should get a wanad instead?

>>32889454
It was also used in the Bergman pistols.

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>>32888601
Кapтpидж хopoшo, тoвapищ.

>>32889678
So 9 Luger then?

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>>32888601
>гoвopить o 9х18
>He oтпpaвляя Cтeчкин
yбить ceбя

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Makarovs are stolen German designs, this thread is rightful deutsch clay

>>32892812
>slightly hotter 9x18 is 9x19
nigger 9x19 is screaming hot compared to x18

>>32889272

You can, but accuracy is gonna be shit as 9x18 is indeed slightly wider than 9x17 or 9x19.

>>32889272
You can't shoot .380 out of (OP)'s pic, since it's a BB gun, but you can swap out barrels to shoot either caliber. The magazines will hold both.

I wouldn't recommend shooting the wrong round out of the wrong barrel if you valure your fingers.

>>32891016
Yes i think you should, i had a bulgarian mak i gave it to my sister inlaw. I love the wanad so much. Its my nighstand gun at my vacation place. It carries nicely, if you fix that snagtastic hammer.

>>32893016
you mean "liberated" German designs, right? Don't make me call the black Volga.

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>>32893935
you had to put that in quotation marks because you know the russians can't do anything right without stealing technology

>>32888601
There are 9x18 hollow points, should be good for defensive use or carry.

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>>32888601
I carry a East German Makarov with hornady critical defense 9x18. If you google it there are good defensive rounds for Maks.

Hornady makes 95 grain XTP loads for the Makarov. My wife carries those, and I'm confident with their performance.

9x18 isn't a meme, but it is fucking annoying to find. The loads are decently close to 9x19, and much faster/better performing than .380 auto.

Main reason to buy it or a Makarov is because you like them.

>>32888601
It's also extremely reliable! There are videos out there made by the military arms channel on YouTube. It did better than pistols made by HK and other big name brands.

>>32893351
Uh you do realize mak barrels are attached to the frame right?

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>>32895208
Folks swap them out all the time. Just takes a barrel press (pic related)

https://youtu.be/OXJx7PMbdbA

>>32888671
>Is there any practical use for them in this caliber saturated market?
As the One True Combloc Pistol for 40+ years there a metric fuckton of them already out in the wild. Much like AK food, the gun keeps the caliber alive.

>>32889262
>get a bulgarain mak or p83 for just a touch of 200
Link please? I'd buy a bulgarain mak for $200 in a heartbeat

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>>32888601
How much is a good price for a Makarov?
What regions are best, or how do you tell a good one from a shit garbage one?

It's either one of these tiny lads or a glock 43 for me to CC, which I'd prefer to save a few hundred to throw towards an AK and some extra ammo to flow through the gun.

I find it laughable people actually care about 9x18 being less powerful. My only complaint is less plentiful.
Who cares about the power, a 9mm won't shred armor or even a car door very well regardless.
It serves it's purpose regardless, the only concern with caliber should be you can't get it as cheap or simply find it everywhere in a shtf.
Good thing though: you shouldn't be using your pistol much at all anyhow.

>Is 9x18 a meme?

It's a bullet that can End your life, which is what you should do for talking like that.

Caliber wars are dumb. There are certainly better/more modern weapons out there than those that'll be found in 9x18, but if it's all you can afford, it's the best gun available

>>32888601
>mfw OP's pic is an air gun

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It's a cool round. I own at least 10 firearms chambered in it. It will never be as powerful as a 9mm and none of my 9X18 guns are as light as my Kahr PM9 which is why it's my carry gun. Those 9X18s go to the range a lot and are more accurate then any 9mm I own. CorBon used to make a great round for it and I still have some stockpiled, and keep my coffee table Mak full of it, but if you want defensive rounds now Hornady Critical Defense is your best bet. If you live where it gets cold and your using it for defense I would recommend FMJ in the winter months for penetration.

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The Maks are a nice pistol in my opinion. 9x18 is not really the best cartridge however, but if you're using it to save your ass, it gets the job done. I had to use my 9x18 one innawoods a few mobile ago to deter some wild dogs. I have a .380 one but I haven't bothered to shoot it.

>pic related, 9x18

>>32898802
Its a p83, not a mak, but here:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/century-arms-lucznik-p-83-semi-automatic-9x18mm-makarov-used-81-rounds?i=666637&p=WX2

>>32894139
>The loads are decently close to 9x19, and much faster/better performing than .380 auto.

Eh debatable and usually marginally so once the barrel lengths are the same (CZ82 vs CZ83). The 2-3 115gr loads make the 9x18 into baseline 9x19 but underwood and corbon aren't exactly on shelf and those same companies offer hot .380 as well. 10-20gr wt and 100fps don't mean that much

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?299-9x18-Ammunition-Data

I have a P83 from SG and it came real nice. almost new with 2 mags for 189. Good deal but Maks are 199 and a better deal if you can have only one.

Snackarovs are great, fuck on outta here

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Here are the P83 and Mak I got from Sportsmans Guide last month if you want to see the quality. Not bad for about 400 delivered. As you can see the 83 was in better shape.

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>>32901001

>>32901040
Shoots like a dream with the ammo from Academy.

Guess they raised the price 10 bucks since I ordered my Mak. Still the cheapest place around. A lot of other dealers are selling the Maks for 299 now and they come caked in Cosmoline. Mine from spostsmans guide were pretty clean and could have probably been shot right out of the box.

>>32901260
Yea, mine >>32901040 had a tag on it that said clean before you shoot but I didn't because I forgot. Shot a few boxes with zero problems. I actually still haven't cleaned it…

>>32899129
East German and Russian are considered the "best", but the price difference between the two is significant. Chinese Maks are the holy grail of collectors. Bulgarian are the min/max of cost vs. value for Makarovs.

>>32901408
Bulgarian Maks are shit?

>>32901488
No, Maks are excellent guns but they don't have any kind of collector's value compared to the other countries' versions so they're always a good value if all you want is a good shooter. The differences between Bulgarian and East German aren't significant, but the provenance of East German commands a higher value.

All Maks are great and will only go up in value. The premium paid for Russian, East German and Chinese ones is only for collectors value. For shooting the Bulgarians are just as good! Some of the Military Russians without import marks are going for over 1200 bucks now!

>>32901538
*Bulgarian Maks are excellent guns

>>32901408
Anything to watch out for in terms of quality/use?
Is buying them off gunbroker and the like a bad idea? Many are sitting around $240 plus $20-40 shipping, which seems pretty good to me.

>>32894109
Beautiful pistol anon

>>32892755
It's пaтpoн. Кapтpидж would be correct for a pen instert or printer cartridge.

Are Polish makarov's shit, or are they good but just mass produced and worth only the value they can shoot?

>>32901408
What about this? http://www.gunbroker.com/item/619214831

>>32903786
>Are Polish makarov's shit, or are they good but just mass produced and worth only the value they can shoot?

"Polish makarov" is usually a contradiction in terms. Something sold under that name is usually a Radom P-64, a different gun.

Wanads are also Polish handguns chambered in 9mm Makarov.

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I carry a mak every day. Heavy but it works.

>>32905539
To answer the question, a P-64 is more concealable than a Makarov PM, lighter, less capacity. It has a godlike single action trigger and the worst double action trigger I have ever felt.

The sights on both are pretty tiny.

My P-64 has not been very reliable (while the Mak has never had any malfunction of any kind), but that might just be my gun or the mags.

Disassembly on the Mak is pretty easy, on the P-64 I've had to google manuals to figure out how to get one of the springs back in (that flew out without me trying to remove it).

It sounds like I am recommending a Makarov over a P-64, and I am.

>>32888601
Yes it is
7.62x25 is the best

>>32903630
Not really aside from what you'd usually check for with buying surplus. They're all pretty much the same in my experience. $240 on Gunbroker isn't bad considering the only places that still have maks want $300.

>>32901488
no. bulgy's are really just more prevalent in the markets and not from two countries that dont exist anymore, is all. East germans are rare so theyre more expensive, and do have some 'better' features, like the mag release is smoother imo. but its really irrelevant except if youre a collector. if you want to drop 500-600 on a gun, just go get a different gun instead of a mak.

>>32903786
the p64 polish 'radom' makarov is not an actual mak and is indeed shit. just get a bulgy for $50 more and have a nicer gun with history.

>>32905539
>Something sold under that name is usually a Radom P-64, a different gun.
Yeah, just realized that.

>>32906071
It'd primarily be for concealing, but realistically there's only a .3inch difference in length from what I've found so it's extremely minimal.
Both are more concealable than even the glock 42 (or 43) from what I've found, so I'd say they'll work.
My only question now would be if I should get the bulgarian mak or get a glock 42 for $30-50 more, personally I feel like getting the mak.

>>32906360
The ones for $240 are P-64's, but I've found some bulgarian Mak's for $300, not including shipping for either.

Issue is, the $300 mak has no holster or cleaning rod, just mags and the gun.
$20 more to hand select one, but from the looks of it unless they pick the shittiest one they have I'd say it's unimportant, but I'm not particularly familiar with buying milsurp so if that'd be advisable then let me know.

>>32906666
The holster that would come with a mak would be a leather flap holster. Super classy and secure for outdoor carry, totally worthless for concealed. You're going to end up finding a crossbreed or alien gear holster for additional moneys. I've got a flap holster too, for innawoods.

My mak came with a cleaning rod, damned if i could find it now. I just use 9mm brass brush etc.

>realistically there's only a .3inch difference in length from what I've found so it's extremely minimal.

Length is just one variable, the p-64 is more easily concealed by a noticeable margin. You should not bother anyway.

The bulgarian Maks I think were standard police issue (holster wear, barrel great) for quite a while. I bought mine from Buds about five years ago, no hand select fee, and some of the bluing is gone but it's a rock-solid gun.

Glock wise, I don't own one but I've fired one. Liked it more than I thought I would. I still prefer a big fucking piece of steel.

Also, say what you will about the potency of 9mm mak as a cartridge, but it's fucking SNAPPY out of a little pistol, even a hunk of steel like a mak or p-64.

My main full-size handgun is a Witness in 10mm autard, which feels like nothing by comparison (2lb death-brick).

I love my cz 82 but it's pretty heavy. Probably wouldnt carry it, but it has an excellent trigger and good capacity for range time/something sitting around at home

should I buy one of the classicfirearms latest mak shipment bruhs?

>>32907792
no, buy from SOG instead

>>32908106
this?
http://www.southernohiogun.com/military-bulgarian-makarov-pistols-excellent-condition-appears-unissued.html

>>32908163
ja

>>32908193
have you gotten one of them? they do look pretty dang nice

>>32888601

Are these drop safe?

>>32908202
yeah, mine had no cosmoline on it, took a load off my back

>>32908215
Bulgarian ones are

>>32908257

What about cz 82's/70's and PP/PPK's?

>>32908106
Why?
From what it looks like it'd cost $9-12.50 more ordering from SOG due to payment restrictions.

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>>32888601
PA63 with hornady 95gr FTX critical defense. 971 fps out of a 3.6" makarov barrel, probably more out of a PA63 since it has a 4" barrel. PA63 is alot thinner and lighter then a Makarov aswell. the factory grips are a little thick for EDC, I'y buy thinner ones or make thinner ones.

>>32908582
>>32908257
payment restrictions? also I am a retard or do I just set the shipping address as my gun store since I don't have an FFL

>>32908799
From what I understand when buying from SOG you have to pay $12.50 for the pay on delivery or 3% (which would be $9) if you use a CreditCard.
On the other site it's not like that, it seems to have no charge for a moneyorder or the like.

>I don't have an FFL
Go to
http://fflgundealers.net/
and plug in your zipcode.
Slap it down as the shipping address (I believe).

I'd wait till tomorrow and call the shop or wait till someone more experienced to confirm that though.
You might need prior approval from the gun shop, and you WILL have to pay them a transferring fee of like $15-25 usually.

I'm not too sure myself, never bought online.

>>32908588

Have any reliability issues?

>>32908847
sorry, I meant to say I am not personally an FFL, I have a gun shop that I use all the time to ship online shit to, SOG just seems odd in how they handle shipping

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>>32908852
Only problem was caused by a lack of clearance inside the grips I made. once I fixed that it had no problems.

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>>32908960
>the grips I made

nice

>>32908588
I like my FEG, but its not my EDC, its my tacklebox/glovebox/beater pistol. Its a solidly built $200 pistol. Only bitch about it is that it wont feed HP Silver Bear rounds reliably, but fuck it, FMJ/HP are just about equal in my book. Also, I really like the smell of whatever plastic grips they come with, and It cures my Bond itch.

Not sure if its been mention here yet, but have fun buying spare magazines. Looks like 35 and up for a single one. Really the reason I hold off on buying one.

>>32900580
>I own at least 10 firearms chambered in it.
>Posts some pic grabbed from Tumblr

Pics of these guns, now.
With a timestamp.

>>32889454
>>32889428
Wasn't it one of those rounds that was popular because local gun laws restricted civilian ownership of military calibers?

>>32888601
In Bulgaria we just carry with steel core FMJ. You can definitely break some bones with that.

>>32900514
actually a co2-powered bb gun.

Although you could convert it to 9x18 if you replaced the barrel/chamber, firing pin, and extractor, since 90% of the parts are the same as used in regular Makarovs (which are made by the same company, in the same factory).

>>32888601
>defensive ammo for makarov that can compete with commercial 9mm
No it's just not physically possible. Makarov round is just slighty more powerful .380.

Even heaviest P+ loads will still be below basic 9mm luger rounds.

>>32888601
How big is a Makarov compared to a p938 or other subcompact?

>>32911012
>tfw you're not forcefully ejectulating in your significantly younger sister

>>32911775
For a very good reason. Guns chambered for 9x18 are so because their blowback design places an upper limit on how powerful a recoil their cartridge can have. 9x18 was alreay at that limit, developed for that very purpose. Making a more powerful 9x18 would be retarded.

(Its only purpose would be making a loaded captured gun self-destruct as a trap - which admitedly has a veruy limited market niche.)

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>>32912793
>which admitedly has a veruy limited market niche
Is that so?

>>32914757
AFAIK, there is no Glock made in 9x18, senpai

>>32888601
God damn you /k/, I can't look at a Makarov now without seeing the dick grips

>>32888601
Yes

No

LC9s Pro, Winchester Ranger-T 124gr standard pressure

They will seriously debate whether 70 year old slavic weapon designs are competitive with modern Western weapon designs when they were demonstrably inferior to Western designs of their era.

>>32889272
you can shoot 9x17 (.380, or 9 short) out of it.
You can also shoot 9x17, or 9x18 out of 9x19 (standard 9mm)
you'll just run into some failure to feeds and failure to ejects
https://youtu.be/xNqP_nhZaOU

>>32914757
nice meme

>>32915442
you can't shoot 9x18 out of a 9x19 chamber, the diameter of the cartridge is greater than the diameter of the chamber

>>32912793
9x18 Ultra ring a bell? Oh and there was a run of 9x19 barrels made for the PMs that seemed to work just fine. Well, for standard pressure 115gr anyway

Be honest, have you ever rubbed a Makarov grip and expect for something to happen?

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I think for $200 EDC its bretty good. Could you do better for more? absolutely.

>>32917172
Do you need to do anything to protect the metal when you remove the bluing? I have a spare mak that's worn like the one in the picture and I've been thinking about redoing the finish.

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>>32917604

No. just dump it in white vinegar and let it sit for as long as it takes to remove old bluing. Mine took two days. I then boiled to convert red rusts to black. after rubbing with steel wool i decided to just keep it bare instead of rebluing so lots of 320 sand paper and clp as wet lube.

Is $250 for a Polis P64 an alright purchase? I'm in CA and a local store just put them on sale. I don't have any 9x18 but it could be a fun little gun right? Would you say its more concealable than a M&P shield?

>>32898802
Jg sales give it a go

>>32918237
>Would you say its more concealable than a M&P shield?
Roughly the same concealablity.

>>32918267
def 300 on there man

>>32918237
P64 is a gun you buy because you are making a mistake or sincerely want one of each Mak pistol.
For almost the same money you should be able to get a P83, which is the gun Radom made out of all the complaints about the P64. It has modern safety features, they fixed the trigger, and except for being slightly thicker (but still thinner than all 9mms until the recent line of subcompacts arrived) is superior in every way.

>>>32918524
>def 300 on there man

$199 on sportsman's guide a few weeks ago with 4 x $50 poorfag payment plan.... You may have missed the boat...

I love dick grips

>>32900608
>wild dogs

Where the fuck do you live? Africa?

>>32918637
Well whats wrong with it? Would it be a poor choice for motorcycle conceal carry?

>>32917172
That looks really good in the white. Any issues with rusting? I bet it would look good hard chromed.

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>>32919097
That looks really good in the white. Any issues with rusting?

Thanks anon. Don't know about rust issues but if rust did develop I would just reblue the internals. For now I just apply eezox. pro-tip if you boil the parts after removing the old blue your magazines will belch rust on everything else but it comes off.

What are the better quality makarovs and what are the poorer quality ones?

>>32919514
That's really interesting, I need to find a Mak to try this on, I might have to re-rust blue it because I want to carry it, but I kind of just want to put a mirror finish on it and see if that's sufficient, looks like you have close to a mirror finish on yours.

>>32896321
D I C K G R I P S
I
C
K
G R I P S

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>>32905586
> double stack Mak

Out of all my 9X18 pistols the PA63 is the only one I ever had that was just a plain turd. I would never trust my life to it. I changed all the springs, polished the feed ramp, cleaned it perfect and it still would fail to fire and fail to feed sporaticly. I still have it cause I would never want someone else dying because of that piece of junk. Stick to Maks, CZ82, P64 and P83s

>>32888601
Underwood makes 9x18 Mak in +P hollow point and in hard cast lead
https://underwoodammo.com/product-category/caliber/9x18mm-9mm-makarov/