If WW3 happened in late 70's/early 80's, would Soviets

Nah, air superiority and that Soviet has no real way to get to America.

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>>32791618
They'd have rushed through the Fulda Gap and gotten nuked, nuked, nuked again and the nuked.

>>32791626
I didn't say "conquer America", I said maul NATO forces in Germany.
And air superiority is far from granted, in late 70's/early 80's period I speak of Soviets had highly developed AD and their airforce wasn't that inferior in any case.

>>32791631
Yeah, I don't see any other option for NATO given the inferiority in equipment and numbers. But Soviets had plenty of nukes too, and envisoned a nuclear conflict. They were arguably more prepared for it than NATO troops.

>>32791637
Then everyone gets nuked.

>>32791618
>I know it's not that simple as just comparing the tanks
That's an understatement, to say the least. I think you're forgetting something...might it be... nukes. The fulda gap would've gotten literally flattened by nukes. Supply depots and lines-nuked. Corps and divisional HQs- nuked. Airfield- nuked. A cold war ground war in Europe is the sole biggest historical meme people fall for.

The entire NATO plan was fighting withdrawal and nukes

There was a reason the M1 Abrams had a gunsight designed to automatically shift the turret between targets as quickly as possible

It wouldn't have been pretty

>>32791640
We almost got nuked in the 80's

Look up Stanislav Petrov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

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>>32791644
>There was a reason the M1 Abrams had a gunsight designed to automatically shift the turret between targets as quickly as possible

>thinks hunter killer systems were not in use decades before the Abrams

>>32791626
Is not as much as airsuperiority but what soviets could do with that air superiority. Hole in russias military that still isnt plugged.

>>32791721
That had a system where the gunners sight would match the commanders sight?

>>32791631
FASCAM came into being because the Us believed that its ability to use air launched nukes on the Fulda Gap would not fully meant the need.

>>32791626
>Nah, air superiority

This is not USA V USSR it is NATO v Warsaw Pact. Our allie had very dated air forces in the 1970s. If we are talking 1980s that changes things a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkrtxDdaWuM

Watch that for details.

>>32792305
>FASCAM came into being because the Us believed that its ability to use air launched nukes on the Fulda Gap would not fully meant the need.

False. It came from a newfound understanding that nuclear conflict was an escalation and could be desescalated, thus the need for additional conventional assets.

Carrasco is a faaaaaaagggg

>>32791618
>If WW3 happened
MAD would've happen way before that.

>>32791618
>If WW3 happened in late 70's/early 80's, would Soviets cut through NATO forces in Germany like hot knife through butter?

At that point both the USSR and US were dead-set on removing Europe from the face of the planet, or the civilized world whenever the other side attacked (not with nuclear weapons, a conventional attack would have been enough).
Tactical nukes fucking up everything bigger than a small town in Europe would render any conventional fights pointless.
The first armies of both sides would rush in, end their existence in small shootouts or tactical nukes and they'd call it quits over a wasted Europe.

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>>32791618
they couldn't with the afghans back in the 80's.
I don't think they could make it. many coлдaты but most of them like what? 16 years old.

>>32791618
Yes, they would.
>>32791626
>Muh air superiority
USSR operated the largest air and ground forces on the planet. Go play with your navy elsewhere.

>>32791631
>B-b-but muh nukes!
Lol, technological inferiority of the west is showing. It's like an ape with a hand grenade - no one purged American filth out of Europe just because you would probably destroy it before being thrown out.

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yeah

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0005517771.pdf

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>>32791700
That's nothing. You almost got nukes in the 60s, but American equipment was so shit that they missed Washington by 250 miles, the plane crashed and the bombs didn't explode.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash

>>32794510
>you would probably destroy it before being thrown out

It might've even been as damaging as nearly forty years of Soviet control.

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>>32794590
>forty years of American control
No, thanks.

>>32794660
Not even american but that pic is so cherrypicked is not even funny.

I was always under the impression that Soviet superiority of conventional forces was untouched from the 50s through the mid 70s, and only getting into the 80s did NATO's growing technological advantage begin tipping the scales.

>>32794660
I think you mean Democrats

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>>32794660
>Implying the standard of living in ANY communist country came close to the west

Stop being silly Ivan.

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>>32794685
Is it?
>>32794710
>No true Scotsman

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>>32794754
>Muh standard of living of one system measured in another system
Stop being ignorant, Eugene.

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>>32794660
The Soviet Union managed to turn all of Eastern Europe into Detroit.

>>32794799
>MUH GDP IN MUH CURRENCY
>In a socialist state with planned economy
Stop being so ignorant, Eugene.

>>32794794
>dat number 10
Muh dick.

Also, my name is not Eugene, it's Mauricio.

>>32794771
>tfw I thought your pic was of a true Scotsman

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>>32794799

plus russia as a whole is more of a AIDS ridden junkie ghetto than any part of detroit

>>32794794

Yes, because being sent to a gulag because your neighbor got pissed at you and sent a false report to the secret police is perfectly fine as long as it isn't unfairly measured against those stupid biased western standards of "freedom" and "rights."

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>>32794794
>I-It's just a different system guise!
>Baiting this hard

>>32794435
>USSR cas 15.000
>Afghani cas from 200.000 to 1.000.000
how can vietnam era usacucks compete?

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>>32794883
Gee, it is so good they have all these western capitalist liberal values, right?

>>32791618
Probably. The US had not recovered from the Vietnam War. It was in the process of modernization and recovering discipline and morale. Give it until 1985 for a decent fight.

>>32794827
The planned economies of the Eastern Bloc are what killed them, they were unable to get out of the early 1980's recession because of it and that's ultimately what killed them.

>>32791618
You realize that's why the Soviets lost the Cold War, right? While they were stretching their industry thin with overproduction of military arms and vehicles, we just said "fuck it" and kept building up our nukes. We threatened nuclear retaliation for a conevntional attack. And it worked. All the tanks in the world couldn't save the Soviets from the threat of NATO's nuclear arsenal.

They literally lost the arms race by building more arms than us.

>>32794899
The key word is 'Living'

>>32794890
>Muh GULAG!
Ask gooks immigrants in the US after Pearl Harbour about "freedoms and rights", faggot.

>>32794899
The United States has over twice as many people as the Russian Federation, a comparison on a percentage basis is needed for a proper comparison.

>>32794922
The people who were released from internment just after the war ended? Those people?

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>>32794892
>MUH SYSTEM IS BETTUR! BETTUR! USA USA USA!

Pretty much. Before Airland Battle and the mid-late 80's increases in conventional NATO forces, the inofficial assumption everyone amde was that we'd fight Ivan conventionally until we started losing in earnest, then we'd fight with tacticla nukes until we'd lose that too and then we'd blow up the world.

>>32794883
That's a map about heroin addiction, not AIDs prevalence. It shouldn't be a shocker that they have that kind of a problem considering the unemployment (boredom) and proximity to Afghanistan.

>>32794931
One of these systems collapsed due to totally dysfunctional economy and horrible fiscal policies.

>>32794928
So people who were released from gulag after Stalin's death and The XX Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union?

>>32794955
No, imbecile, It collapsed because a handful of criminals signed Belavezha accords and dismantled it in spite of the will of the people shown at the referendum. Was it not dismantled, it had a chance to evolve in a way similar to China.

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>>32794931
>Intentionally starving MILLIONS
>The same as an economic depression

I know you're bating but still

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>>32794899

>posting total numbers of HIV sufferers
>not per capita

nice try Yevgeny

>>32794941

opiate addiction rates and HIV rates are deeply connected especially in countries like russia without proper needle exchanges

>>32794955
More like one colapsed three decades ago and the other one will collapse on the next three.

>>32794931
The difference is America fails we pull the rest of the world down with us.

and im not implying that its a bad thing.

>>32794984
So if I'm going by colors the burgers are only slightly less AIDS ridden than the Slavs. Which is something I didn't need a fucking graph to know.

>>32794923
USA has more AIDS, deal with it.
>>32794978
If you are going to imply implications instead of addressing the actual arguments, I advice you to bandage your ass and GTFO.
>>32794980
>Intentionally
Oh look, an Ukrainian poster.
>>32794984
>Posting per capita
>Not total numbers
Nice try, Eugene.
>>32795004
And that's what I said initially, that you're like an ape with a hand grenade.

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>>32795034

>>32794922
>Muh GULAG!

Not an argument.

Nor is the argument that because the USA is guilty of any human rights violations that automatically means the Soviet Union is no worse. Because I'm pretty sure the Soviet gulags lasted for several decades, far more than the four years of internment of Japanese- Americans. Would you like to keep trying?

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>>32795034
>Implying I'm a slav

Sorry, try again next time Ivan

>>32795063
I'm saying that the US was never any better.
>>32795067
>Implying anyone by hohols seriously believe such thing as holodomor existed

>>32794977
The Soviet Union was in dire straits even before this occurred. It had been in decline since the 70's (could be argued it truly began in the 60's) and the stagnation got even worse with a global recession and oil was one of the only things keeping the country afloat. Problems worsened in the 80's and they began to use large amounts of their foreign reserves to have the funds for the military and to cover their failing economy. The Belavezha accords were only the formal end to the country but it had been falling apart years before that document was ever signed, blaming the signatories is just denying there was ever a problem to begin with, a rather childish notion that ignores nearly two decades of failures.

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>>32795034
>And that's what I said initially, that you're like an ape with a hand grenade.

I prefer 'moon monkeys' ;^)

>>32795097
It was in decline only during 80s exactly because it failed to reform properly and then was dismantled instead of proper evolvement, which only assured another decade of freefall.

>>32792305
>This is not USA V USSR
Even still, morale and training in the US Army was complete shit following Vietnam. Never mind the poor coordination of the services and special forces that wasn't properly fixed until after Grenada.

I have no doubts that the Soviets would make it to the sea, at least through the low country. The Iranians had just spent a fortune upgrading their military, so if it's pre-revolutionary, then we can count on them to help with Central Asia. North Korea would invade South Korea, but I imagine the Chinese would sit it out and instead take the opportunity to bring Vietnam into their political sphere.

I'd have to look into the state of the Turkish military, but I'd have to imagine they'd have their hands full in the mountains.

>>32795087
>I'm saying that the US was never any better.

And I'm saying you're wrong. Your attempt to equate four years of internment of Japanese-American citizens to the decades of widespread use of the Gulag system throughout the majority of the entire existence of the Soviet Union is pathetic. If that's really the best argument you can make I really have nothing to say except marvel at the results of a typical Russian historical "education."

>>32795120
>proper evolvement

None of the good countries wanted to be Soviet.

The economy was in free fall.

I'm pretty sure Gorbachev spent ten years trying to find a form of Soviet Socialism that could actually work, and failed hideously.

>>32791618
Not like that
They would have made progress yes, but it wouldnt have been pretty

>>32791618
look to the mid 1950's if you want to see Pact supremacy 54's and 55's vs m48's bad times.

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>>32795110
>Muh moon
Sorry to break your delusions, but Soviet Coat of Arms was on the Moon before the American flag and Soviets took the first pictures from its surface too. Call me back when you will have pictures from the surface of Venus.

>>32795139
Bitch, please, only dwarf non-states wanted to leave or left the USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_referendum,_1991

>>32795134
Not him, but it's not like american historical education is any better, it's also a bunch of propaganda revisionist bullshit sprinkled with a bunch of "MURICA!" and "FREEDUM".

The fact that the Soviets Union what on itself and died of starvation a quarter of a century ago and the burgers are still heavily indoctrinated since children to hate and fear and been paranoid about the "ever constant threat" of a political and economical system that is long gone and obsolete is a big proof of it.

>>32795134
"Decades of widespread use of gulag" was condemned after Stalin's death and The XX Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, retard.

>>32795120
The economy during the second half of the 70's was stagnant, and that's also when they became dependent on oil exports. Failing to reform properly was a result of the inefficient bureaucracy that was in place, they consistently failed to solve the problems that were destroying their economy and tearing their bloc apart for over a decade. There is no one thing that destroyed the Soviet Union, that and evolving was one of the things the Soviet Union was unable to do considering the rigidity of the bureaucracy they had built.

>>32795170
>Russia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Ukraine, and the stans

You mean the poorest, shittiest parts of the USSR?

>>32795184

So what, because it was condemned that means it never happened? You're failing to make an argument that it somehow wasn't worse than the US internment of Japanese-Americans, in either length of time, number of victims, or treatment of prisoners.

>>32795182
>whataboutism

>>32794931
you know that the woman's family members stepped forward and said this was staged, right? she never approached them for help or complained before the pic.

>>32795034
>implying Stalin didn't have options outside of letting people starve

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>>32795158
>B-but we took the first pictures!
This is getting sad

>Choosing to go to Venus
>Bragging about being retarded

Shoulda went with Mars, Ivan.

>>32795182
>burgers are still heavily indoctrinated since children to hate and fear and been paranoid about the "ever constant threat" of a political and economical system that is long gone and obsolete is a big proof of it.

Wrong. Children are largely taught that fears about communist infiltration were nothing but paranoia and the crimes of the USSR are largely downplayed or not talked about at all.

t. actual American who went to public school.

>>32795198
And that's why it needed a reform that could prevent the crisis of the 80s. the reform was carried awfully and so the crisis began in the 80s.

>>32795182
The only time Americans learn about the USSR is in history classes. You know, like other failed states?

>>32795220
So isn't the fact that adult people think what I said about fear and paranoia even worse?

>>32795212
>Implying this was about options, not about an attempt to force industrialisation that failed and resulted in famine instead
>>32795216
>BUT MUH APES ON THE MOON
No one cares, you can't even repeat it anymore.
>Not having the pictures of Venus
>Being salty

>>32795250

Except they don't. Your conception of US views towards the Soviet Union seem to be stuck in 1950.

>>32795250
No, since it isn't true. Anyone today who goes on about communists and communist infiltrators et al. is dismissed as a paranoid crackpot.

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>>32795220
>Children are largely taught that fears about communist infiltration were nothing but paranoia
Then how come the McCarthyism and Russophobia in on the rise again?

>>32795254
>Attempt to force industrialization that failed and resulted in famine instead

There was no failure involved in the Holodomor. It was intentional.

>>32795275
Might be something to do with Putin publicly saying and demonstrating he'd like the good ol Soviet Union back.

>>32795275
Because Hillary was trying to appeal to Neo-Cons who are stuck in the Cold War by building up Russia to be a major, existential threat.

>>32795286
This, too.

>>32795267
Is that why people are seriously discussing that Russians made Trump the president?
>>32795286
Except he said, literally, "anyone who wants the SU back has no brains".

>>32791618
>late 70's
The US Army was so depleted and underfunded after Vietnam the Soviets would have annihilated them. It wasn't until Reagan that this was reversed

>>32795297
And it looks like she succeeded.

>>32795263
>>32795267
This explain the russiaboos all over /k/.

Since I personally have no quarry on this subject because I come from a "neutral state in the cold war" (i.e. a capitalist country that was threatened by the US to not turn into a commie state basically with a stern "OR ELSE...") I couldn't care less about this particular Ivan wannabee trying to justify the millions of civilians who got killed in Stalin's gulags.

I just like to pinpoint the hypocrisy on both parts.

>>32795300
They aren't talking about a communist conspiracy, they're just ass blasted that Hillary lost and are looking for any reason other than their own failures to explain it. Even the CIA report doesn't say that Russia interfered in the actual election IE rigging votes.

>>32795313
Not really, seeing how she lost and Trump doesn't have a hawkish stance towards Russia.

>>32795300
Saying and doing are completely different things. Putin is basically exerting the same authority the Soviet party leaders of old wielded.

>>32795283
>It was intentional.
How's weather in Ukraine?

>>32795254
it was abject failure, but he still chose to let it ride, rather than cutting deals with other nations to bring food in or get the farmers back to work.

>>32795334
>You don't suck Stalin's cock like good comrade?
>You must be Ukrainian

The weather in Virginia is actually quite nice today. A bit of a chill in the air, but that's typical of the Eastern US.

Why are you trying to defend Joe Stalin, exactly?

>>32795323

It's not hypocrisy to point out that a country did horrible things and had a terrible human rights record simply because your own country wasn't perfect. It's just pointing out facts. Anything else is historical revisionism.

>>32795326
They are literally talking about Russian hackers infiltrating the vote process and Trump being Putin's puppet.
>>32795329
No, he does not.
>Saying and doing are completely different things
Then why you yourself referred to words, not deeds?

I could see why the Russians would see the Ukraine as a bunch check if "ungrateful fucks", but bitching about it just shows a huge lack of understanding of the big picture just like the Americans do.

But seriously, fuck Putin and his megalomaniac delusions.

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>>32795254
>Be Soviet
>Think that if there's other life in our solar system its on 'Venera'
>Waste decades trying to get there only to find it's a literal hellscape

Congrats.
Neat photos though.

>>32795355
>They are literally talking about Russian hackers infiltrating the vote process and Trump being Putin's puppet.

And even the CIA report from which these allegations originate says that the Russians, if they really were behind anything, did not tamper with the votes themselves, IE they did not "infiltrate the vote process."

It is ass blasted Democrats salty about losing to the Don.

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>>32795349
>Why are you trying to defend Joe Stalin
He was kinda cute when young.

>>32795229
I agree, problem is that centrally planned economies can be quite difficult to fix. I really only wanted to say that people blaming the Soviet Union's collapse on the accords are doing themselves a disservice if they have any interest in the history of the country.

>>32795352
>your own country wasn't perfect
Well that's an understatement.

>>32795342
>it was abject failure
Only post factum.
>cutting deals with other nations to bring food in
And be left without any money?
>or get the farmers back to work
That's what they tried to do. And failed. Holodomor as an intentional genocide is a complete hoax. Look at the fucking map, every farmland suffered from it from Ukraine to Russia and Kazakhstan. If anything Georgia should pay reparations to these nations. They still have a fucking Stalin monument there.
>>32795349
>Fixated on sucking cocks
>Thinks Holodomor was real
Why did you move to Virginia, hohol? Is life in Ukraine unbearable nowadays?

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>>32795366
>>32795254
Almost forgot
>Made it to the moon with computers less powerful than modern calculators, not to mention the one you're shitposting on now
>LOL you can't even go back

We have no reason to, surely you can bait better than this.

>>32795366
>Be american
>Think that if there's a life in our solar system its on a dead rock called Mars, not on a rich atmosphere planet called Venus
>Waste decades trying to get there only to find it's still the same dead rock
Congrats. Neat rover though.

>>32795399
>Hohol

I don't know what that means, because I am a born and raised burger.

There's a pretty big world beyond your cold, gray apartment complex and state run media, Yevgeny. I suggest you look into it a bit more.

>>32795393

Doesn't change my point.

>>32795384
Accords were the reason of the country's political collapse, while we are talking about the economical one here. Was it not for the Accords, they had a chance to fix the economy and the will of the people indicated that this was in their interests to save the country from dissolution. No one says Accords caused the economic crisis.

>>32795402
If you have no reason to how come NASA is struggling to build a heavy lifter? You want to. But you can't.

>>32795434
And in this big world no one except for the hohols really believes holodomor was real. So why did you move to Virginia, hohol?

>>32795399
>he thinks revisionist propaganda is real

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>>32795399
>Only post factum
the realization of the problem was, his unwillingness to sacrifice ideology for the lives of his country's citizens was not

>And be left without any money?
they had no money. they were beyond broke when lend/lease ended. they could have traded commodities or labor

>muh blight
bullshit. they stole everybody's land, made communal farms, then never bought equipment, paid anybody to work them, nor offered to buy the product from people willing to.

the farmers subsistence farmed, while people in the cities starved to death.

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>>32795510
>He thinks holodomor was real

>>32795434
>Not knowing the meaning of a world
>It's your fault, you ignorant close-minded foreign.

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>>32795416
This damage control has literally made my day, thanks Ivan. I can only imagine how difficult it is to justify searching for life on a planet that has an average surface temperature around 800 degrees, rains sulfuric acid, and has an atmospheric pressure 92 times that of earth compared to one that once had a stable atmosphere and rivers of liquid water.

I actually admire your dedication.

>>32795483
>This poor of bait
You're gonna have to try harder than that, buddy.

>>32795496
>Literally ignores entirety of my post
>Still thinks I'm Ukrainian

You're thicker than shit, aren't you? But anyways, plenty of historians don't doubt the fact that an event occurred which killed hundreds of thousands to millions of Ukrainians either intentionally or otherwise. the only people who deny anything happened are RIDF like you.

>>32795537
>Word in a foreign language I haven't studied
>Implying I was blaming him for my lack of knowledge

>>32795516
Yes, they tried to force industrialisation right away. The realization that it didn't work the way they tried to do it was post factum.
>lend/lease
Do you even know which decade we are talking about?
>made communal farms, then never bought equipment
No, idiot, they made the communal farms that people refused to work at, which caused blight all across the fucking farmlands of the USSR, not just in Ukraine.

>>32795216
>Hey let's send our spaceship to the acid planet that melts lead!
>Great idea comrade.You will get Order of Lenin!

Ivan is dumb.
>>32795275
>Then how come the McCarthyism and Russophobia in on the rise again?

I dunno.You should ask some of those little green men on Krimea.
>>32795416
>Think that if there's a life in our solar system its on a dead rock called Mars, not on a rich atmosphere planet called Venus

Ivan doesn't know chemistry.He thinks lifeforms can survive in 737 K sulfuric acid.

>>32795520
Judgeing by a quick Google, it seems pretty god damn real, and very man made. First time learning about it. Interesting.

>>32795563
>>32795416
>Rich atmosphere

This will never not be funny

>>32795520
>not a single relevant scholar or historical source denying the holodomor
>debate is purely around how much damage was intentional and how much was caused by mismanagement
>HURR DURR HE BELIEVES THE HOLODOMOR IS REAL

>>32795587
Oh, but comrade, don't you know google is of capitalist lies? Only Russian state media and official history is of trustworthy!

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>>32795589
>Comrade, I am of thinking I have Lead poisoning
>Do not be of the silly Vlad, you are mineral rich!

>>32795614
Looking further, the poor fucks in kuban were legitimately and intentionally starved.

Having played the leopard 1 in Warthunder v cold war slavshit, yes.

Germany's glass rod firing paper thin shit boxes would have been shredded by Russias light armoured vanguard before the main armour even showed up

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>>32791631
>>32791637
Russia knew NATO was going to use tactical nukes if WW3 started. That's why all their vehicles are amphibious and NBC proof.

The NVA of East Germany had radiation detectors sewn into the armpits of their soldiers' uniforms so they would know which areas to avoid.

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Mikhail Gorbachev

>1989: Chairman of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union
>1998: Pizza Hut Spokesman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgm14D1jHUw

>>32795561
>The realization that it didn't work the way they tried to do it was post factum.
it continued after they knew about it, and they never took advantage of other options.

>Do you even know which decade we are talking about?
I'm not actually the one that brought up Holodomor, but my argument was demonstrating the continued lack of concern for the starving, post war, when other options were even more numerous, and totally available. they had leverage in Europe, post-war, that they didn't have pre-war. did nothing with it.

>>32795652
*Laughs in capitalist*

>>32795644
War thunder is shit

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>>32795664
>>32795644

I would take that game with a grain of salt, because pic related.

>>32795672
Don't forget the broken angle mechanics that use a percentage chance to determine whether a shell bounces. Fuck, World of Tanks might even be more accurate.

>>32795663
>>32795652
I knew capitalism won, but god damn did it win.

USSR ashit

>>32794510
Euro here, I'd gladly live like an American and watch my country burn in atomic hellfire if I knew it was happening to yours too

>>32795647
Wrong way around vatnik. Virtually all soviet operational plans included the use of tactical nuclear weapons to disrupt NATO armored formations, which ever the Russians considered to have superior firepower.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563692/Soviet-plan-for-WW3-nuclear-attack-unearthed.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_to_the_River_Rhine

>>32795543
>Dead rock without magnetic field or atmosphere
>Life
Please.
>You're gonna have to try harder than that, buddy.
This fits perfectly to the state of technology that NASA is at now compared to what they need to fly to the Moon again.
>>32795551
>Literally thinks Holodomor is real
>Still acts as if he is not a hohol
>>32795563
The same men that were stationed there for centuries? What about them?
>Eugene doesn't know physics, thinks there's life on a dead rock with no atmosphere
>>32795587
The Holodomor is claimed to be an intentional genocide of Ukrainians, dumbass. No one is saying there was no famine or that it was not caused by men. There was and it was. And people across the entire USSR suffered and died from in, not just hohols.
>>32795590
"Holodomor" specifically refers to the hohol belief that evil "Russian" Stalin tried to kill them all. What "not a single relevant scholar or historical source" denies is this:
https://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333
>>32795661
>it continued after they knew about it
Because they tried to enforce industrialisation.
>my argument was demonstrating the continued lack of concern
You brought up lend-lease in 1933 famine discussion. This was pointless.
>>32795723
>Euro here
No one asked The Cuckold.

>>32795275
Because Russia has always been an imperialist threat to Europe. Ask the former Warsaw Pact countries if they want back in rather than be in NATO.

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>really like 70s-80s cold war gone hot discussion and just 80s military hardware in general
>op is a bit slanted but it's probably still salvageable
>open thread to find the eternal vatnik and his massive inferiority complex shitting up yet another thread

>>32795819
Have you looked at a map anytime you Slavic spastic, where do you think Russia is?
Unless you happen to be a fucking yellow monkey man, in which case your sabre rattling is even funnier

>>32795644
Now imagine if war thunder limited you to the installed optics, had 'defend objective' missions, didn't overcharge you for HEAT, and once hit a crew wouldn't function well, probably bailing after a penetrating hit.

>>32795819
Fuck NASA, let the commercial space industry haul shit. There's nothing useful on the moon. When it becomes profitable to go there, then it will be worth it to investors.

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>>32795865
Unlike you, I actually did, retard.

>>32795869
You forgot actual stabilised guns.

Or APDS and APFSDS rounds that actually work and create massive spall. Or real gun sights


So much we could have.

>>32795876
>Fuck NASA
No, fuck Musk and all the muskfags. Steve Jobs of space industry is useless.

>>32795416
>rich atmosphere
Rich in acid you mean.

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>>32795819
>>32795819
>Please

Do you lack reading comprehension? Read through that post a few more times, Ivan.

>This fits perfectly to the state of technology that NASA is at now compared to what they need to fly to the Moon again.

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/nasa-knows/what-is-heavy-lift-launch-vehicle-58.html

>What Does the Future Hold for Heavy Lift Launch Vehicles?
>NASA has a new plan for the future of space exploration. The new plan will eventually lead to human exploration of Mars. Many steps will be needed in order to get there. New technologies will have to be developed. NASA is working on a new Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle. The new vehicle will use many things NASA has learned about rockets. It will also use brand new technologies. Engineers are working to figure out the best way to prepare to explore the solar system.

;^)

>>32795880
>Shills the fuck out of his shitty backwater of Europe state
>Calls euro cucks
>Is one
Put down the vodka you stupid cunt

>>32795889
Musk isn't the only player in private space development, you know.

>>32795644
War thunder
Fuck off.

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RIDF is out in force these last couple of days

>>32791618
>If WW3 happened in late 70's/early 80's, would Soviets cut through NATO forces in Germany like hot knife through butter?
>70's
yes
>80's
NATO would cut through Soviets like a hot knife through butter
>Not only did they have superiority in numbers
Yes
>they had a lot better equipment too
Not once the 80's started
>I mean in 1980 majority of US tanks were M60A1's with some minor upgrades.
And then the M1s were already rolling as well as the Leopard 2s... superior to every soviet tank ever made in every way, shape, and form

>>32795819
>No one is saying there was no famine or that it was not caused by men.

Which is why you've been claiming throughout the entire thread that either:

A. The Holodomor never happened, Stalin and USSR dindu nuffin

or B. Holodomor was accidental and affected all of USSR

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>>32795771
First fucking sentence.

>>32795889
You're just butthurt at Elon-sama you filthy burger.

>>32795935
>WWIII would have been totally fucked up

Who would have thought?

>>32791778
Dating all the way back to the T-54 in 1951

>>32795894
I meant to say dense.
>>32795897
>Do you lack reading comprehension?
Do you?
>NASA has a new plan
They want. But they can't.
>>32795907
>Is yrocuck
>Thinks Russia is one
Yrocuck, please.
>>32795908
Others are even more pathetic in their attempts. NASA has actual perspectives to put a man, or at this point anything at all on another celestial body again. Privates are just playing around with space tourism and stock markets.

>>32794894
By extending our useless and strategically unjustifiable war to Cambodia and Laos!

Not sure why Russia copied US fuckups, but at least they were smart enough to leave A-stan when they realized Afghans were shit "allies".

>>32795957
>Afghan
>Bad allies
That Rambo movie seems to think different.

>>32795956
>They want. But they can't.
And then, afterwards...
> NASA has actual perspectives to put a man, or at this point anything at all on another celestial body again. Privates are just playing around with space tourism and stock markets.

Are you incapable of shitposting consistently?

>>32795908
Richard's doing well, topkek

>>32794922
Our Japs lived. Soviet prisoners, not so much, and the Soviets even gulag'ed their own people who managed to survive German captivity!

Let us also remember the Berlin Wall. Vatniks had to kill people to keep them inside the Warsaw Pact. Any EUSian who wanted to leave was and remains welcome to GTFO.

>>32795928
Holodomor never happened. Because "Holodomor" specifically refers to the hohol belief that evil "Russian" Stalin tried to kill them all. Famine did happen and it was man-made. But it was neither intentional not accidental, it was a direct consequence of idiotic stalinist policy of forced industrialisation by all means.

>>32795956
>Is Russian
>Doesn't know basic geography makes him a eurocuck himself
Alternatively
>Is Russian
>Is disgusting 3rd world yellow monkey man
Kys either way faggot

>>32795972
They can't. But they want. In perspective they will probably be able to. But they now can't. Speaking of being incapable to shitpost consistently, lol.

>>32795984
>The US never killed anyone who wanted to turn commie
At least they generally did it in privacy, unlike the russians.

>>32795945

It's not "automatic" the way Conqueror was.

The tank commander had to communicate verbally the bearing of the next target, which is what tank commanders did dating all the way back to 1939.

IIRC the first Soviet tank with automatic Hunter-Killer capabilities is T-90A.

>>32795994
>Is yrokuk
>Is kuk
Sums it up.

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jesus christ people, stop feeding the RIDF, they get 12 kopecks for every (You)

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>>32795956
>Do you?
>They want. But they can't.
Aw, come on Ivan, it's like you're not even trying anymore!
I was having fun humiliating your pathetic attempts to delegitimize American achievements in space!

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>>32795969
>Rambo movie
The quintessence of burger backpedalling.

>cuck
Shut the fuck up you stupid interracial fetishist shits.

>>32796026
Which one was first?

>>32796019
Come on, Eugene. Either name a way NASA can send a man to the Moon or shut your whore mouth up. Either way, try harder.

>>32796009
Yeah, European Russian cucks being cucks, shame they're so fucking stupid that they can't understand simple things like geography

>>32795122
>Even still, morale and training in the US Army was complete shit following Vietnam.

Not in USAREUR. I enlisted in 1981 and greatly enjoyed my paid vacation in Germany. The Brits were in good form too. (BAOR et). Not that things didn't get better with the Reagan era mass cash infusion. Readiness rates promptly skyrocketed.

Still it would have likely gone nuclear in the end. Sir John Hackett wrote an excellent book on the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-John-Winthrop-Hackett/dp/0025471600

US morale Stateside in the Army was shit though. I thank my Nam vet friends for dissuading me from joining the Army or Marines. The Air Force was always in decent shape because educated people enlisted to escape the draft.

The Reagan era was fucking wonderful for the military, as demonstrated by Desert Shield/Storm. Saddam had the bad luck to face the best trained and equipped US force since WWII.

>>32796061
No, yrokuks being kuks. Shame they're so stupid they can's unkuk themselves.

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>>32796006
>The tank commander had to communicate verbally the bearing of the next target
You're thinking WW2.

>The biggest breakthrough from this new device was that it could be used to designate targets for the gunner. This is done by simply aiming at the target and pressing the left thumb button. An electric signal is sent to the turret traverse motor, and by referring to a sensor attached to the cupola ring, the turret is automatically rotated to meet the target. As the gun elevation mechanism lacked power controls, it was still up to the gunner to adjust in elevation. The commander does not need to hold the button. A single click will do. This arrangement can be fully described as a fully fledged hunter killer system, making the T-54 the first tank ever to implement such a system, followed by the Conqueror heavy tank in 1955.

This system had been in Soviet tanks ever since.
TKN-3 found on the T-72 was also implemented on IFVs like the BMP-2, giving it a capability that western IFVs at the time also did not have, never mind the 1PZ-3 that allowed the commander to assume direct control of the gun with a flip of a switch

>>32796085
How many rubles have you gotten for shitposting at me about how you're a cuckhold?

>>32796115
Due to the current economy they can't afford rubles, only beets and warthunder golden eagles.

>>32796115
How many immigrants enjoyed your hospitality since you identified yourself as yrokuk?

>>32796101
The soviets were stuck on the TKN-3 so long that the gunner sometimes outranged the commander during the night depending on what tank of the Tripple T series.

Too long for their own sake. Atleast the T-80U and UD had newer optics for the commander that were as good as the gunners.

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>>32796047
>retrofit a saturn 5 with an up to date capsule

Ironically my Grandfather's middle name was Eugene

Guess what he worked on in Huntsville and in Cocoa Beach?

>>32796164
>retrofit a saturn 5
Eugene, are you this desperate? So nothing then?

>>32796126
Russia has loads of shitskin muslims, and yet your people are so spasticated they're actually on par with your massive amount of shitskin trash
Now that's truely laughable

>>32796123
That +1 GE for every 10 shill posts must really motivate them

>>32795819
>You brought up lend-lease in 1933 famine discussion
my argument was that they let it roll when they have other options, which they did. THERE WAS ZERO EXCUSE FOR PEOPLE IN RUSSIA STARVING POST WW2

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>>32796201
Stay mad slav boy

>>32796208
Russia has shitskins living in their own shitskin lands. Yrokuks have shitskins living in their homes. Literally. Answer the question, yrokuk. How many immigrants enjoyed your hospitality since you identified yourself as yrokuk?
>>32796210
>PEOPLE IN RUSSIA STARVING POST WW2
What does it have to do with Holodomor?

>>32794685
It's because it's cherrypicked that it's funny anon

>>32796240
Next time in order to not get rekt bring up something that actually exists, burgerboy.

>>32796072

I second Third World War, is a good book.

>>32795887
Well yes
Also add to that the fact that IRL Soviet suspensions produce a much rougher ride, and you end up with a tired T-54 crew, having to fire from a short halt (or not-so-short) with fullbore AP at a hull-down leo, and that's only if they could find it from its firing signature. And all this without getting killed.
And this is while only carrying 34 rounds, of which at least half are HE-NATO carried almost exclusively AP and MP.
There's a lot more to be said, including training and so forth.

>>32796240
Get off of /k/, craig.

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>>32796264
>Saturn V rocket
>Doesn't exist
You're just embarrassing yourself now, pal

>>32796292
My name is Bill, anon.

>>32791618
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKbDKsNsjac

Remember that nuclear war is a meme, because no one would be dumb enough to launch the first nuke.

>>32791631
Just want to point out the Fulda Gap was only one of many ways into Europe, it just happened to be the only passage into the American controlled sector. The Fulda Gap was not important in the grand scheme of things.

>>32796247
None you moronic Russian spastic, I'm from Finland you fucking stupid prick
You just have shitskins, and your people are such scum all around that the shitskins aren't even noticeable as the dregs of your society, all your people are just dregs of society

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>>32796332
>Saturn V rocket
>Exists
>Talks about embarrassment
Any M48 tank still going exists more than Saturn V, which is nothing but a museum showpiece nowadays.
>>32796401
>I'm from Finland
And we finally get to the reason of this yrokuk's saltiness.

>>32796395
While the North German Plain was where I think the main Soviet armored thrust would've come, the Fulda Gap is only a short drive from Frankfurt am Main, the economic nerve center of West Germany and the HQ of V Corps. I doubt the Soviets would pass up that opportunity.

>>32796247
>actions after an event aren't telling of the mindset that was present during an event
kys, commie scum

>>32796459
There was never a mindset "to eradicate all Ukrainians", retard.

>>32796453
Why would anyone have a rocket capable of a lunar landing if no one has wanted to do one in over 40 years? That's horribly wasteful and not how any space program is run.

>>32796401
>Finnish hating a russian.
Woah, never heard that one before, nope, not at all.

>>32796482
The point is why would anyone imply they can go to the Moon if they don't have a rocket to do so?

>>32796457
They would, actually. Soviet doctrine emphasized not getting stuck in large cities. Those would be megaton-scale nuclear targets instead. Crushing the enemy industry and economy comes later, in WW3 maneuvers and offensives are a matter of days and not months or years.

>North German Plain
Don't forget the 3rd Brigade of the 2nd Armor Division was in Bremen. They would have been able to hold off the entire 2nd Guards tank army on it's own.

>>32796482
It's no use anon, he's just arguing to get the (you)s.
I've stuck around to see how desperate he'd get, and I can't say I'm disappointed.

>>32796526
>Brings up Saturn fucking V as a way to get to the Moon in 2017
>Anyone else is desperate
Eugene, please.

>>32796517
Well, the US does have a rocket capable of a lunar landing, Saturn V, they would just need to build another one. You build a rocket as needed per mission.

>>32796479
>There was never a mindset "to eradicate all Ukrainians"
no, there was a general lack of giving a fuck mindset. demonstrated post realizing there was a problem, and post losing any fucking excuse to let it continue inside your borders

>>32796357
>Remember that nuclear war is a meme, because no one would be dumb enough to launch the first nuke.

Don't presume so much from your young, comfortable, naive, internet-conditioned hindsight!

Western troops and our Soviet counterparts trained seriously during the Cold War because small tactical nuclear wars are VERY practical. Might have scuffed up the locals a bit but you should also remember many commanders were WWII veterans, not babies who think a couple hundred thousand dead people is too horrific to contemplate.

You might have heard of the "neutron bomb". What enhanced radiation warheads were designed for was not to spare property but to kill Soviet tank crews under armor and debilitate them by rad sickness before they died. Atmospheric nuclear testing wasn't done for shits and giggles.

>>32796558
No, it does not. It had.
> they would just need to build another one
Which they are incapable of, since production lines are long time dead. They can develop a new one and they try as of now.
>>32796589
>no
Then we have nothing to argue about.

>>32796479
Confiscating food from the kulaks wasn't exactly an act of kindness.

Apologists make me want to puke. ALL apologists. Own your countries murders and if they fucking GOT THE JOB DONE, be proud of them! Enemies don't deserve to exist, at all, so why snivel and deny? I don't deny muh American ancestors democided prairie niggers, and I'm not going to hand the deed to my property to their descendants.

Might shits all over rights which are words on paper. It's no accident every apologist from Americans to Vatniks to Japs to Naziboos is a lying sack of childish angsty shit or (in fewer cases) just a calculated political bullshitter.

Apologize for nothing. Those who deserve life win. Those who don't lose. There is no "justice" in nature but the rule of tooth and claw.

>>32796743
I am actually a 55 year old nuclear deterrent analyst with a background in human psychology and behaviouralism in the cold war. I remember the cold war and I am an expert on all topics related to this.

You on the other hand are just a naive internet generation kid trying to pretend like you know something.

No one was ever going to nuke anyone.

>>32796791
>Confiscating food from the kulaks wasn't exactly an act of kindness.
And neither it wasn't an act of genocide.

>>32795029
its because we have blacks

>>32796812
Did mom and dad help you make up all that bullshit?

>>32795381
while he has good face structure, that picture is touched up, same face but imagine it with smallpox scar pitting.

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>>32796906
>Blacks
>As opposed to American "whites"

>vatniks crying how USSR was great
>fatniks getting spasms because someone said that 1 US tank doesn't kill 10 Soviet ones like in his video game
>butthurt belters foaming at their mouth because someone mentioned USSR or Russia
And I, the OP, feeding on collective butthurt.
Keep being easily trolled you shitheads. Literally dumbest board on 4chan.

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>>32794931
>90+ million murdered people is equivalent to the great depression.
>Implying you're either baiting, or just thought the Red Army had cool uniforms.
>Implying you aren't stupid.

>>32796945
>Implying you wouldn't bang that slav

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>>32796958
>Keep being easily trolled
>He thinks he trolled anyone, not just started just another shitposting thread

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>>32796958

I troled u

>>32797032
this

>>32797022
>90+ million murdered people
And a trillion shot personally by Stalin. McCarthy, what are you doing on 4chan, you're long time dead.

>>32796958
>fatniks getting spasms because someone said that 1 US tank doesn't kill 10 Soviet ones like in his video game

That would happen in real life, though.

>>32796934
Did mom and dad help you understand all that bullshit?

>>32796772
So then they restart production of the rocket, its not as if the design is lost.

This thread is shit.

>>32796958
>i am the rusemaster
go proof it, delete the thread, i dare you

>>32797080
>Restart the production of Saturn V
Lol. Like I said, production lines are ling time dead, the project is obsolete in every sense of this word and to do such a thing they would need to develop it anew from scratch.

>>32797136
Also this.

>>32796958
Give us a proof that you are OP, and then, kill yourself.

>>32796812
Oppen? Is that you?
Why would you show up in a shithole like this? It's just a bunch of shitposting with no real goal other than shitposting. Stay away man and spread reason and logic in some other thread, where it will be well recieved and enlighten some fools. Your knowledge is wasted here.