Why leo 2 is such POS? I tried defending it on my russian imageboard,

>Single goatfucker jihadi can simply waltz up to an Abrams, toss a grenade into the crew commander hatch, kill the crew and cause the loaded road to cook off
Abrams BTFO'd.

>>32772352
You know, even in this case the worst which will happen are dead commander/gunner/loader. In leo case, the entire hull ammo compartment will cook off and blow tank into smithereens.

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>>32772268
>who the fucks put ammo storage in hull and doesnt even bother covering it with reactive armor
Pretty much everyone does.
The only tank I can think of that comes close to not having any ammunition storage space in the hull is the M1, and even it keeps six rounds in the hull.

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>>32772439

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>>32772465
>It even has a blowout pannel

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Challenger 2 has wet stowage in the hull. Any tank that has blow out doors with a ready rack will most likely store rounds in the hull anyway due to space limitations. OP tank looks like it was hit with a fuck off mine or IED desu; that's too much damage to the hull to have been caused by a cook off alone.

Any tank that gets hit anywhere other than the front 60 degree arc is pretty much fugged regardless. Pyrophoric effects from LRPs will completely destroy exposed ammunition (not forgetting the 2k+ rounds of 7.62 in the turret) and the overpressure will kill or critically wound any crew in the fighting compartment anyway so who cares honestly?

>>32772268
You mean the 2a4 crewed by Turks?
Yeah the 2a4 is hardly a modern day tank and the Turks arent up to the same standards that are being met by Europeans or Americans

>>32772439
m1 has ammo in armored containers and under blowout panels
t-90 relies on ERA and active countermeasures
meanwhile brave Leo 2 rides into battlefield with huge JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP written on the side of his hull

>>32772487
Propellant needs confined space and pressure to cause detonation, otherwise powder just burns rather slowly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYxTsyQ2eks

With blowout panels pressure will kick panels out before other rounds start detonating. Then it's just a big bonfire in ammo rack with occasional round exploding.

>>32772491
The Leopard 2 has a blow out panel as that directs it away from the crew compartment, and the ammunition is houses in containers as well.

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>>32772268
Oh look, it is this thread again.

>>32772465
>>32772478
Fucking saved.
This is the first time I've seen decent images of the M1's hull ammunition storage.

>>32772491
>t-90 relies on ERA and active countermeasures
The T-90 is also over a decade more recent than the Leopard 2A4, compare it to the 2A5 or 2A6 and you'll see that modern Leopard 2's are better than the T-90 in pretty much every way.

>meanwhile brave Leo 2 rides into battlefield with huge JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP written on the side of his hull
As does every other western tank that isn't the M1, so what's your point?
Any situation that would result in the Leopard 2's ammunition igniting would do the same in the Leclerc, Type-10, K-2 and every Russian tank.

>>32772539
Doesn't the Leclerc have an autoloader with blowout panels and and a fighting compartment protected by a blast door? As far as I'm aware it's quite similar to the Abrams in that regard.

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>>32772539
1 more

>>32772519
The entire side armor plate and turret act like a blowout panel it seems.

>>32772539
T-90 has ERA as standard hull side protection. And western tanks ARE M1 and Leo 2. I don't think anyone thinks seriously about leclerc battle deployement.
Also define "modern Leopard 2". Every operator country seems to invent its own modernization kit.

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>>32772573
>The entire side armor plate and turret act like a blowout panel it seems

Fucking lol

>>32772521
the replies are guaranteed, I wonder if it's the same fella who has made all these

>>32772612
You can bet, i am pretty astonished by the amount of people who didnt already see this, there seems to be an endless stream of "new" people who need to discuss it.

>>32772612
Sorry but it took some time for my butt to get healed after I got kicked hard trying to defend it by memeing "it's only huge IED" and "it's airstrike on abandoned tanks"

>>32772554
The Leclerc stores some its ammunition in the bustle and some in a space beside the driver.

>>32772573
>And western tanks ARE M1 and Leo 2
As far as production that might be the case, bute very few of a certain tank being built isn't any reason to ignore it as a design.

>define "modern Leopard 2"
Anything that isn't a stock standard A4.
Though really I wouldn't consider anything modern that doesn't have a CITV, reactive armor and things like a quickly replaceable engine/transmission pack.

>>32772651
>it is real in my head
was so fucking obvious it is just another butthurt vatnik

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>>32772487
>Challenger 2 has wet stowage in the hull.

GRP bins are no longer used since the FV4030/4 Challenger 1 Mk. II ACB you britbong.

>>32772660
Are there even vatniks that arent mad about anything all the time?

>>32772602
>4chan laughing react.png
Why would you even name a picture like this, beside when you are a paid shill, that got scripts how to answer in certain places on the internet and specific pictures handed to it.

>From one of the other 3000 thread about it:
>>Since we already had a lot of those threads and the obvious vatniks will always leave out vital stuff in order to create a wrong vibe around stuff or just directly lie:
>>-Leopard with blown off turret or broken hull were hit by turkish airstrike after the tanks where abandoned or by a VBIED
>>-other Leopards were hit in the side by ATGM, which means any other tank, would have not performed better in >the same situation (actually worse since most tanks dont have a seperated ammo rack in the turret)
>>-there has been no confirmed kill of a Leopard from the front
>>-the tanks were send in without infantry support and hit in the side like in a traditional middle east fashion
>>-turkey internals revealed that a good chunk of the tank crews survived either by fleeing after getting hit, running away from an suprise attack or approaching VBIED when they were camping outside of the tank or driving off with the damaged tank
>>-there has been no video or picture of a Leopard who got directly hit by a ATGM in the ammo rack of the hull

>>Now prepare for the manditory vatnik butthurt of calling me Turk/Fatnik/... and or demanding proofs, while at the same time the thread is full of their lies without any proof whatsoever.

>>32772695
>getting this vexed

Easy naming so I can find it in my image catalog.

>>32772738
>Easy naming so I can find it in my image catalog.
You mean like a paid shill?

>>32772744
Now we can prepare for the standard russian shill answer with the typical ridiculing exaggeration ala
>Yes, you got me i am a paid shill, Putin send me

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>>32772744
>inb4 that's exactly what a paid shill would say

Yeah definitely a paid Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsvatniken shill. Not Britbong at all.

>>32772763
>>32772784
Called it.

>>32772602

" the outside walls will fracture within a few milliseconds when there is large increase in pressure as a result of exploding ammunition, so that the load on bulkhead 25 of the combat compartment remains within the limits this bulkhead can withstand. The built-in indentations, 30, ensure that the outer walls will fracture when pressure increases inside the ammunition stowage compartment, and will, at the same time, fragment into small pieces, so that relatively small masses are accelerated and the pressure in the ammunition stowage compartment decreases rapidly."

https://www.google.com/patents/US4864913

>>32772268
Does it makes the Merkava IVm the best tank?

>>32772352
Friendly reminder that video is obviously staged

>>32772835
Nice find, thanks for that. What about the cook off of hull-stored ammunition though?

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>>32772268

Tank is fine, it just lacks competent crews and INFANTRY PROTECTION.

>>32772478
Where on the tank am i looking? Rear half, under the turret?

>>32772519
No containers in the hull storage though. At least not on the A4

>>32772489
Turks are European you racist

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>>32773343

Roaches are sandniggers you liberal faggot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9QRa0hdf9E

>>32772728
post proofs, turkish fatnik

>>32773528
>me so edgy
>doing exactly what was said shills would do
>but of course i am no butthurt vatnik
if i would get a penny everytime this happens

>>32773343
Technically Istanbul is European up to the Bosporus, the rest is all in Asia. It's not because they play in the European football league that they really are in Europe. Israel plays in Euro league, too.

>>32773418
roach = turk
you stupid slavshit

>>32773219
Yes see>>32772465

>>32773557
>not getting sarcasm

>>32772268

Considering we've seen several hit in the sides and roof with ATGMs and no catastrophic kill from such, it seems like they're working just fine.

Its only problem is the hull ammo stowage, but then, all tanks outside of the M1 has that.

>>32773890

That one was hit in the roof too, and there was no catastrophic kill.

>>32774368
The vatnik whos sarcams no one understands is back.

>>32774692
That did look like actual sarcasm, but to be fair vatniks on this board push poe's law to its limits.

>>32772666
Alright. Sauce on that then?

>>32774716
The situation is a bit unbalanced in this, when you say something like
>now the next vatnik will call me X random insult
you will almost always get a reponse, may it be "ironic", "sarcastic" or honest. on the contrary you would hardly get a fitting response to something like:
>now the next fatnik will call me X random insult
simply because there isnt someone so mad or insulted that he needs to make a comeback and if it only is "ironic" or "sarcastic". If you ever had the "pleasure" of moderating a chan and were able to look into the country IP where such posts come from you could see that this is indeed something where russians stand out a bit.

>>32772539
>The T-90 is also over a decade more recent than the Leopard 2A4

Not the original design. After all, the T-90 was supposed to be called T-72BU at first.

Funny thing: side hull hits across much of its profile on the T-90 will send its turret flying if it has ammo in its mag.

The Leo 2A4 needs to be hit in the front portion in line with the drive to do the same from the side.

Vatniks will never tell you this.

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>When someone says that the Leopard 2 is a good tank.

Jesus fuck, quit slitting your wrists sideways.

>>32772268

Other than hull ammo stowage, the Leopard 2 is pretty much the same thing as an M1 of comparable upgrade. Albeit, the bustle isn't as well protected from the sides, but that won't matter with ATGMs.

Meaning, it's arguably one of the best designs around.

I wonder if any of you armchair generals and defence technicians ever even saw a tank in real life

>>32775078

I jacked off on one once

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>>32772268
>I tried defending it on my russian imageboard
Boт ты гдe, шaкaл eбyчий.

>>32775240
How often did you get called hohol and churka?

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>>32775561
Never. Why?

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>>32775577

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>>32775590

>Russian forum
>T-64 vs T-72
>the T-72 only blows into 2 pieces! The T-64 pops welds!

When you're arguing how much your tank blows up from internal combustion, how many pieces more than 2 really don't factor into it.

>people still fall for the "ERA is magic anti-everything armor" meme

>paid shills
>on a weapons board
>where there is literally no money to be made nor any other kind of incentive to pay people to spout bullshit

can someone explain this fucking meme

>>32777125

Pretty sure there isn't any other than rabid fanboys

They kinda got collective PTSD after ODS, so it kinda makes sense that they'll latch onto any success of the T-90 and overlook any failure, all whilst being subjective over say, the Leopard 2A4, which hasn't fared any worst than the T-90 insofar as ATGM hits are concerned.

>>32772268
Because the Leo was designed as a hit and run tank against Russian armored companies that could easily Penetrate the armor so there thought process was to build a glass cannon of a tank and that's how you got the Leopard 2

>>32777901

Ironically, the Leopard 1 was a pretty smart idea for a small timeframe when ERA and NERA weren't around to offer high resistance to CE with massive weight savings.

>good gun
>great FCS and sights, especially the 1A5
-good mobility and endurance, plus reliability

The biggest problem is that it was still a big tank for its armor level. Which did give you a lot of internal space, which increases the ability to fight, but they could have decreased its internal volume and made it smaller for less weight or made it smaller and more armored for the same weight.

>>32777125
U.S and Russian intelligence agencies actively pay for people("shills") to shape discussion on websites such as 4chan and reddit. whether they're actually active on /K/ however idk.

>>32778288

I can't really recall any US shills, other than CTR stuff on /pol/.

There might be Russian ones when anything Ukraine is mentioned, as Russian flags pop out of nowhere to spam up those threads with "proofs" and "not government sanctioned" when proof is given. But, that could just be Russians only talking about such because it's related to their side (fanboys).

There's been lots of childish arguments over the years regarding false facts or erroneous assumptions over tanks, which brings on the whole, "LEOPARD 2 IS SHIT BECAUSE IT WAS HIT IN THE SIDE WITH AN ATGM!", and they figure that is somehow bad for the tank that wasn't designed to take ATGMs (even old ones) in the side.

>>32772489
Do you have any evidence of substandard turkish tank crew training? Because it sounds as generalized racism otherwise.

>>32777091
>people still fall for the "ERA is magic anti-everything armor" meme
I'm not claiming that. But ammo compartment defended by 80mm of armor and ERA is at least marginally better than 80mm only, don't you think?

>>32777901
If 60 ton Leo 2 is a glass cannon, I wonder what 46 ton T-72 is. And how much weight you need not to be a glass cannon?

>>32778632
Tanks WILL be hit by ATGMs on modern field. It is reality because ATGMs are cheap and widely available. Tanks are expected to try counter that by active protection measures, ERA, or the very least, by organizing the internal structure in such way that a single hit to side won't result in catastrophic kill. If tank does neither of that, it is a turd which should not be fielded, period.

>>32780259

>will be hit

Leopard 2A4, the M1A1/2 (no TUSK), and T-64/72 derivatives, were made to get hit on:

the front

ATGMs will perforate all of them from the side, and that's because they weren't worried about that; it was advance and defend (in reverse), in a Cold War battle, and losing the odd tank to a flank hit didn't matter much.

Cold War tanks on a modern asymmetric battlefield isn't the fault of the tanks.

It's the fault of the countries that don't upgrade them to asymmetric threats.

Tanks are always designed against current and near-term threats combined with what they're planned to be used for.

>>32772268
At least put some effort into it next time.

>>32775621
It does if you're putting them back together, I guess?

>>32780819

Not fully; internal combustion inside the hull tends to burn the hell out of the turret and hull insides in most cases.

I've heard of a few instances of T-55s/T-72s having a new turret mated to the hull after an internal combustion, but mostly they end up burnt out husks.

In the end, it's arguing over how lost you want it to be.

If the Leo 2's hull ammo goes up, it'll most likely pop or displace the turret and burn the insides badly, so it's a loss for both parts. If it's the bustle, then it's possible that the fire won't spread from there, and you'll have a good hull and turret in more cases than not.

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>>32774845

Daily reminder that only one turkish Leo2 crew was injured till now and no deaths at all have occurred.

>Leopard confirmed superior to vatnik trash

>>32781027
>believing turkish state propaganda

that country is down the dicatotor path you could almost call russia a functioning democracy in comparison.

and as far casualties go every country lies about them until much later. It's just bad for morale. And who is there to say otherwise.

Besides this whole Leo2 is shit meme is beyond retarded.

>>32775590
Nice rare pepe. SAVED. >:)

>>32774997
Why is it a bad tank?

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>>32778632
Russian shills are always eager to create a wrong vibes around things, the typical "everyone does it", without taking any proportion or amount into count and the "no you" when they just declare everything is acutally the other way around. Picture related.

>>32773343
no, they're not.

Why Turkey fields obsolete tanks vs modern ATGM? Did they contract autism from germans? Or is it a mastermind ploy to get tankers killed as revenge for participating in gulenist rebellion?

It would be interesting to see a land confrontation between Greece and Turkey,as they both field leopards.