I just watched lindy's video on the skinnerian psychology

I think if it was a longer range engagement I'd be able to but if it was up close like room clearing type of stuff I'm not sure. I've never really killed anything before besides bugs and mice.

>>32695349
Bump for interest.

## Some thoughts ##

Training is Paramount, and not only when it comes to foes armed with firearms.

Think of how much training you need to properly hold the line in a shield wall.

When I larp, I keep making some stupid mistakes such as raising the shield too much. Just to name a thing training would correct.
Even so, at least I have a certain mindset. There isn't anything more annoying than trying to boost group cohesion and have a stupid motherfucker abandoning the line just because he thinks he can do what he wants in the middle of the mayhem.
I went to the point of thinking some people just don't get it. They are simply unable to press the pause button of their desires for a second and push the play button of their brains. People have this fucking tendency of thinking rules should apply to anyone *except* them.

Brief, aside from technical errors due to poor training (see above: Me with a shield), there are also disrupting actions on behalf of individuals who simply cannot stand still for a couple of minutes or have something to say every time they receive an order. Like, say, they have to comment fucking everything like old grannies at the bus stop... And if you say A, they do B. So you explain A, and yet they still do B.

I'm not talking people who are required to mount guard for 12 hrs. I am talking dudes who are supposed to hold a battle line for 3 minutes of their miserable lifetime.

Training is always the key.

>>32695596
Not that I have any issues with anything you said, but you didnt really answer my question. Do you personally feel that you would be able to take a life if you needed to?

As far as training goes, I am not unused to killing, from mice and bugs to chickens and such, I admit that I am desensatised to it because even as a child I wouldn't think twice about it as long as I wasn't cruel about it. I dont know how that mental conditioning would transfer to humans, but ive been ready before as I said in the OP.

>>32695349
Thinking of firearms, it comes to me that shooting an enemy is always somewhat a preventive action.

There is a preventative quality that can be found in shooting, but which does not apply to other situations of self defense -- such as hitting back someone who slapped you.

The reason for this is that once you're shot -- well -- you're likely to be gone for good. So you have to act first and take down your foe when he poses a threat (and not when the threat is brought to completion).

This is why, I reckon, it is extremely easy to react in a brawl compared to when somebody breaks into your dwelling.

Consider this: someone slaps you. You survive the slap, and are fully warranted to react. You opponent's attack is somewhat complete once you begin to act... Or maybe you stopped him from hitting you, yet it is strength against strength.

However, when the foe is armed, you have no chances to spare. You cannot play around to "test him". Of course, you can play around tactically, but you cannot wait to be shot in order to react -- you have act first and follow your instinct. Most likely, either you shoot first or you're dead.

This is also why the law should protect people who defend their homes in such a fashion.
Most European legal systems have a concept of self defense that requires people to objectively become victims before their reaction is considered to be warranted. This might be okay in a pub brawl, but it is ridiculous to demand someone takes harm from a firearm before they could even commence their defense. People ought to be able to defend themselves in order to prevent harm, and not just as a consequence of it.

>>32695689
>Do you personally feel that you would be able to take a life if you needed to?
Answer is no.

P.S.: Where's your link to the docufilm on skinnerian training.

>>32695596
>When I larp
Wtf

I know this is gonna sound edgy as fuck but I'm legitimately lacking empathy to the point that I feel I'd do alright shooting someone. Most emotional responses just irritate me or make me feel dissociated so the experience of killing someone would probably fuck me up a lot less than others.

Of course that's ignoring the general stress of combat which would fuck me up just as much as the next guy.

>>32695783
>I know this is gonna sound edgy as fuck but I'm legitimately lacking empathy to the point that I feel I'd do alright shooting someone
Do you have the kind of "empathy", where you feel afraid that someone might be looking, even if it makes no sense?

>>32695349
Lindybeige is a bong that sits on top of Mount Stupid along with the rest of his ~500k Youtube followers.

File: rule19.jpg (86KB, 750x600px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 750x600px

>>32695349
Everyone is different. Some people just come to terms with "They're bad guys and deserve to die." or other justifications. You don't consciously decide, your brain just does it.

I thought I was capable of killing, but initially there's this kind of odd detachment when you realize that yes, that guy down there honestly and truly wants to kill you. It's not something civilian life ever prepares you for. You can see him, he doesn't look particularly special or malicious or evil, but he's doing everything in his power to kill you and any moral reservations you might have held against killing have to be tempered against this new knowledge that the cost of maintaining that conviction will be letting him kill you. That's your choice. You, or him. I'm a bigger fan of me than I am of random fucks I've never met who decided they wanted to do me harm, so I made my choices, and I'm comfortable with that.

For me, it was "That dude is a threat. I'm going to shoot him until he becomes a not-threat." The second that guy behind the front sight post decided to become a threat to me or those around me, and so long as he remains committed to being a threat, he ceased to have the rights and protections extended to every other fellow human.

It's rightly compared to popping your violence cherry, because once you pass that border, you never go back. Common human interactions and especially formalized martial arts put a sort of hard limit on what you do and don't do in a fight. You pull your punches. Without that limiter, "normal" violence just isn't there any more. When someone "rumbles", it's not just beating someone up. Real violence is not a toy. It takes a conscious decision when you're in a fight to not go lethal and remove the threat, whereas beforehand, you probably would have paused to consider if you really wanted to kill this guy.

>>32695783
have you confirmed this by pointing a loaded weapon at a living thing, like any mammal? with or without pulling the trigger, i mean.

>>32695744
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zViyZGmBhvs

It's not the main point of the video: however, the latter half of the video is him talking about the effects of Skinner's theory.

>>32695853
I never said I like him m8, his video simply got me thinking.

>>32695985
I understand that, it makes sense from that standpoint. I hope that I'm never in that situation but if I ever am I hope that I can keep that mindset.

>>32695349

In a civilian setting you probably won't be shooting someone who isn't an immediate threat - if you are doing that then you probably don't give a shit in the first place.

The problem with killing an enemy of your country is the whole situation is impersonal and you may have to shoot someone who isn't directly threatening your life but has to be killed. If you see an armed someone suddenly jump out from behind some bullshit and they immediately start running up the street yelling something to their friends..

They aren't shooting at you. They might be pissing themselves. They clearly don't want to get into a fight to the death with you or your buddies.

But you still need to shoot them. They might suddenly get braver when they are looking at you from a cubby hole on a roof. He might be running to get his friends to ambush you. Too many "might be" situations that end up with you and your buddies getting shot at.

Situations like that are what you need training for. Outside of guys who will straight fall apart the first time they are in contact or people who panic freeze I think almost everyone could kill someone that is trying to kill them. If you saw someone shooting at you and got the chance to shoot them back it would not be very hard.

In a civilian setting, assuming we are talking about scenarios where you are the good guy, you aren't going to be shooting at anyone unless they really fucking wronged you. If someone pulls a knife on your wife and tries to mug you in an alley you aren't going to think about it until afterwords. If someone breaks into your house you aren't going to go 'man its fucked up that im about to shoot this guy in the back'.

TL; DR - Good shoots in civilian situations are really clear cut compared to what people in the military are trained to deal with. You don't have to worry about the implications of shooting the guy who drives around for the guy who sells the meth to the guy who breaks into your house.

>>32696228
Makes sense. But since you brought up military combat, ill reference the video that I mentioned in the post above yours.

Lindy said that over the years as the military started using human shaped targets, the percentage of soldiers shooting to kill was greatly raised, to as much as 95% as he said in his video. Do you think that this has any implications to the mental state and the conditioning of the soldiers to become desensitized to the act of firing at a human? I don't necessarily see how shooting paper or steel shaped a certain way will condition someone to subconsciously be able to shoot the real thing, but maybe thats just me.

>>32696430
Not the guy you're talking to.

I can recall the refereces you use. Human shaped targets, little green cutouts, little green hanging dummies, different colored "ivans" (plastic molds with vaguely human resemblance), are all used to try to force your mind to accept that, when you're firing, you fire at shapes. Vaguely human shapes. Your brain, being the malleable little twat that it is, will start associating the shape with "this spot is where I need to shoot".
So you do.

As for the OP, "without military training, how many of you could actually shoot to kill?", I don't think I could...the caveat is that I have had military training. In essence, my belief is that I am too cerebral of a person to DO without thinking through literally every step of my action.

Military training made me learn how to make shit up on the fly and make it look beautiful when finishing a task that cannot be thought and planned all the way through. For instance, I can plan how to make entry into a room and "neutralize" all targets, but that assumes I know where all targets are, how they will act, etc. It's like brain choreography. Instead, what I learned to be most useful is, in programming terms, various interconnected algorithms that are continuously reevaluated during execution.

I have some booze and patience if you want to go more in depth.

>>32696694
Go for it man, I've got absolutely nothing to do tonight and I was hoping for some more responses and people to talk to.

>>32696817
Ok. Where should we start?

Do you have any questions, comments, or requests for clarification on what I already said?

I dont think anyone knows how they will react to that situation before they encounter it. Ideologically i dont have any problems with the thought, but im not sure what my subconscious will do to me.
I think in a situation where the other guy is actively a threat your instincts should kick in and it wouldn't be a problem for most people to actually do it, the questions how people will handle it after.
Its my understanding that very commonly the main issue people have after is that they were expecting more of an issue to be present and are now worried they are crazy or something because its not bothering them as much as they thought it should have.
I think its safe to say everyone alive today had numerous ancestors who did a lot of killing, id think that the inability would have been selected out by now.

>>32696844
Not really. I guess I'm curious about this:
>I don't think I could...the caveat is that I have had military training. In essence, my belief is that I am too cerebral of a person to DO without thinking through literally every step of my action.

If you have to plan out every action how do you deal with spontaneity? If, hopefully never, you are in a situation where you must act spontaneously how would you deal with it, act now think later sort of thing? As I've said, the only thing even remotely similar that I can relate to is the possibility of someone breaking in and I acted without thinking ready to confront whatever may have been there.

>>32695349
A soldier volunteers to spend his life defending his nation. Though this does not apply to all soldiers, to those exceptions we may assume the conscript risks his life defending his nation so he might return home again. The volunteer hopes the same if he does not have a deathwish. To this, they both give up, temporarily, their natural right to life for their respective terms.

That is, no soldier, actively at war, retains the right to life. Thereby he renders himself or is forcibly rendered into a vehicle by which the nation might carry its aims in extremis.

Thus, to engage a soldier at war and attempt to end his ability to wage war by death, injury, or capture may be carried about in a similar ethical manner to destroying any other weapon platform, rendering it unable to fulfill its mission, or capturing it to aid ones own side. One does not butcher, molest, nor seek to humiliate a tank; similarly a soldier is treated much the same, though as he is rendered incapable of warring, so to do all his natural rights and dignities see themselves returned.

Now I can say all that, but the question remains whether I can sufficiently dissociate the man when the time comes to aim true and pull with concern for nothing but trajectory, lead, and recoil.

>>32696430

I think its a combination of things that add up to people being more willing to shoot to kill.

There are alot of things in our culture that really make it easy to disconnect from reality when it comes to violence. Like your average schmuck in WW2 had never seen someone get shot before. Not in real life, not in a movie, not anywhere. Even if he had seen it in a film it was all obviously acting back then. You couldn't have done a movie like Saving Private Ryan where guys are on fire and screaming and getting shot to shit and stabbed. It was probably a real shock the first time any of them shot at someone because they had nothing going into it. No frame of reference outside of maybe hunting.

Now you see people get shot everywhere, all the time. You can look up real footage of people getting killed in all kinds of shitty ways if you want to. People get shot to bits in movies all the time. People play video games where they do nothing but shoot bad guys. Lots of stuff aimed at guys and especially teenagers features people getting graphically killed, its kind of expected as part of the package at this point.

I'm not a retard who says Doom caused Columbine but I think the amount of realistic violence that people see in fiction makes them less squeamish about shooting to kill. I heard lots of guys talk about themselves in reference to action movie heroes, talking about going Rambo, busting in like a fucking Terminator, doing some Neo shit. You watch those movies and you go into a real situation thinking "of course i know what happens when you shoot somebody, i saw.." and for some people they keep thinking that way after they have.

There are also other factors too. People forget that WW2 drafted many more people than Vietnam. Anybody who is shooting at bad guys today volunteered to be there and at least thought they wanted to be there going into it even if they change their mind.

Also dick wagging is probably involved if the 95% involves self reporting.

>>32696944
>dubs responding to dubs
>damn, dude

Here's what I meant:
Before the .mil, I was always analyzing my possible actions before acting. I was always too slow to respond verbally in debates, but always had a fast response to something that tested my book-knowledge in school. At this point in my life I would have to say that I would, in your situation with having someone break in, sit frozen in my room, gun in hand, pointing it to the door, until I worked out where the intruder(s) would be and how I could end the issue of having my house broken into.

NOW, after my training, it is a VERY different situation. I actually had an instance not long ago where I was woken up from being half asleep by a crashing or slamming noise downstairs. I jumped from bed (nude FTW), grabbed the bedside shotgun, told my wife not to make "a fuckin sound", and systematically cleared the house in near-darkness without making any noise. I later discovered that a shitty fan knocked over something in the kitchen, but the point is that I immediately reacted and knew how to go about doing something.

>>32695349
>lindybeige
>not a shit source for anything beyond the middle ages

He completely shits the bed on anything concerning firearms.

>>32696957
This was an exceptional post.

>>32697040
I can only hope to one day have that level of readiness.

>>32696963
It's been a very long time since I've had a decent conversation here.

I agree with you on the part about the desensitization to violence through media and entertainment, and how it's changed drastically over the last 70 years. But that for me doesn't answer for the people in the very next major war, the Korean war, that had many ww2 veterans in it. Perhaps it's the fact that so many had seen combat before that lends to the much higher shoot to kill percentage, but I don't think it accounts for it all. The entertainment and media hasn't changed much if at all between the end of the second world war and the beginning of Korea, so to blame it on the media and video games and snuff videos on demand that we have now doesn't make sense to me.

I have no doubts that the people of the day were made of much sterner stuff than the majority of people now, but as the years went on the percentage only increased. And taking into account (this is purely from the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zViyZGmBhvs) the raise and how seemingly spontaneous it was, with the lack of change in gore shown in media and entertainment, while it became more as the times went on it was still obviously fake and the majority of people knew that it wasn't realistic. Unlike today where you see gore every day on the news and can find ISIS execution videos of people getting burned alive and gunned down like cattle on the internet after a google search and a few miliseconds.

I've noticed that the kids I grew up with are way more desensitized than their parents, myself included. My parents can't watch some of the things that I have absolutely no problem watching. They think the video games I played are violent, and I admit they were, but I thought they were relatively mild compared to some of the things I saw on the internet even years ago.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see how that accounts for everything from WW2 to Vietnam and beyond.

>>32697112
Thanks, the last time I trotted that out everyone in the room gave me long stares.

>>32697040
> but the point is that I immediately reacted and knew how to go about doing something.

What would you say about my acting much the same way but without military training or any experience whatsoever?

As >>32697113 said, I too hope for that level of readiness to be present should I actually need it.

>>32697113
The difference between declarative knowledge (my book-knowledge reference from earlier) and procedural knowledge (how to do shit, muscle memory, or the 'algorithmic' learning process I mentioned) is entirely based in practice and either forcing yourself to learn it, or being forced to learn it.

I found that adrenaline is one hell of a learning aid. When you know HOW to clear a room, but you've only done it in daylight, and now you NEED to clear a room in near-darkness, your adrenaline is already spiked and your senses are on high alert. This helps with taking what you already know (how to clear) and meshing it with what needs be done (new situation, vague resemblance to what you already know) and creates new neural paths parallel to the old, and you do so more immediately than before.

>>32695596
>larp
LMAO WHAT

>>32697140
We might have a better ability to separate reality from realistic fantasy because of the constant exposure to very graphic entertainment. At some point, I'd imagine the mind gets tired and delays its squick responses until it can confirm reality, which, I've noticed, instead of prompting horrific revulsion we I hit up a gore thread or see something unpleasant, but more a detatched sense of distaste and regret that the event occured alongside the logical end piecing the scene together and analysing where the body parts or injuries came from. I assume being physically present would see me much more distressed because the learned safety of my computer screen and my choice to open the image/video has been removed.

>>32697238
> I assume being physically present would see me much more distressed because the learned safety of my computer screen and my choice to open the image/video has been removed.

That's exactly how I think about it aswell, it's just that seeing gore and violence, even as a kid hasn't affected me as it did older people. I guess that you might be half right on the part about me being able to separate it better, but theres one thing: when I was about 8 or so I saw an old man in the next car hit a telephone poll head on, his airbag didn't deploy and he was covered in blood. He was fine, but even as a little kid I wasn't bothered at all by seeing the guy covered in blood, with glass in his face and cuts all over his body. And I was 10 feet away. I've seen plenty of other gory and grotesque shit growing up, doing some of it myself such as killing chickens and mice without feeling anything at all.

What about you? Do you have any experience with real life gore and your feelings afterward?

>>32697190
There was a pretty widely referenced study where three groups of people were taken and tested for accuracy at the free-throw line in basketball.

The first, the control, group did literally nothing in the week between baseline test and results test. There was a 0% increase in accuracy.
The second group spent a minimum of 30 minutes 2x a day visualizing their throws. They actually made a 5% (or some shit, it's been a while) increase in accuracy.
The third group actually practiced shooting. They practiced 2x a day, half an hour each, actually shooting baskets from the free throw line. They made the largest gains at 12% (ish).

What this has to do with you is that you already visualize what you are about to do. You know what must be done, how to do it, and have probably run scenarios in your mind a few times. Likely, those scenarios are always different and the perp in your house is not always doing the same exact thing. This means that you are mentally training yourself, and, as seen in that basketball study, you are making yourself more efficient and ready to do "what needs to be done" when the moment arrives.

Dealing with the aftermath can only be prepared for up to a certain point. There is too much going on mentally to accurately brace for in the moment that you pull the trigger and make the step from "planned" to "acted".

Like >>32695985 said, there is a border. Only once you passed that border can you start to deal with it. Only when you see from the other side of that line can you know what you are dealing with. Sadly, like many other examples, those on one side of the line cannot understand that feeling, and the other side of that line cannot explain it, but to those on that far side, no explanation is necessary.

File: RThiremepls.gif (330KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

330KB, 960x540px

>>32695596
>When I larp,

>>32697221
It's funny because I understand the process because of both my book learning and reflecting on previous training-to-reflex moments that've occurred. The most I can do to make ready is play scenarios out in my head, winning and losing; winning feels like daydreaming but I know it's important to have them outnumber my 'learning losses' so it doesn't become training to die. Frequently it's less a single path of events and more running a single event through all the setup and choice variables that come to mind and just dissecting each sequence in a rough progress of action-resolution without going into details of technique. The few times I've had an adrenaline rush and not been able to deescalate or completely disengage until the rush passes the only way I describe my actions was my mind and body acting in absolute sync with zero forethought and no sensation of intermediate steps, just and endless loop of perceive-act-perceive-react until there were no moreactions to take and I stood still watching for an action that needed taking long enough for the feedback loop to fail and leave me wondering what the hell just happened. As my first foray into an unsupported leadership role (factory) it remains an interesting to reflect on if highly stressed episode of my life that I don't regret being removed from. Also, it tends to terrify most people.

File: wat.jpg (24KB, 499x541px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 499x541px

>>32695596

Please tell me this is bait.

>>32697434
No, that's about right.

The perceive-react loop is exactly what adrenaline was designed to assist. Your procedural knowledge of reactions is what you constantly reassess and compare to the current situation, which then allows you to make the next action in sync with your perception of what needs to be done.

Most people that train, maybe even train obsessively, and then are engaged in a firefight report that there was a lack of "thinking". That they just reacted and knew what to do, and if they thought, it was later.

>>32697360
>>32697434
>>32697492
This is honestly one of the most mature and deep conversations I've ever had on the chins. Thanks for participating and talking with me guys, now I've got to do something. I'll check in later or tomorrow if it's still here.

>meth head attacks my mom
>start punching him
>realize he can't feel shit
>pull out a knife and hit him as hard as I can with the bottom of the handle
>he finally stops and looks at me
>he looks at the knife
>he looks at my face again and backs off
>cops show up at that moment
>arrest him
>I stare at the spot he was standing in for a while
>realize what happened
>fall over
If he had waited another 3 seconds to respond he would have been stabbed. I have no idea if that's a normal response, I have a brain disorder that fucks with my emotional processing. At that moment I only thought "stabbing man=safe mom" and it was honestly kinda hard to restrain myself.

>>32695853
^^^this. But the mountain is made out of animal dung, and Mr Beige is too fucking stupid to realize where the smell is coming from.

File: 1375647687230.gif (801KB, 250x170px) Image search: [Google]

801KB, 250x170px

>>32695349
I think it's all bullshit. I'll be perfectly edgy on it, and admit it. I think the books about it are shit, the ideals of killing are fiction, and the training and questions you've asked about are bullshit.

If someone has the adrenaline flowing through them, if they legitimately have a threat to their lives or they think they do, if they have a weapon on hand? Of course they'll shoot to kill. How else do we have the accidents we've had? There's too much hard-wired survivalism in our brains. We're hard-wired for eating, tribalism, flight, and, most importantly here, fight.

The question comes after. After the stress and immediate responses, the reflexive reactions, how do we feel about it? That's where the difficulty of killing comes from. After the fact, thinking about it. Wondering if its moral. In most battlefield situations, it wouldn't be a damn question at the time in the slightest. The trauma is the question.

File: 445352.jpg (90KB, 736x981px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 736x981px

>>32695596
>when i larp
care to elaborate?

>>32697322
My father beat my mother, threw food, and smashed furniture and appliances a lot. Rapid-cycling bipolar is a hell of a preparation for split-second events; i find myself reacting faster and with less vacilation than most people.

People being injured sets me into movement and analysis rather quick. Social stuff requires a high degree of restraint and forethought; matter-of-factness and blunt observations aren't well appreciated by most people.

Factory anon, btw, while I was still managing my quad I had a burnout employee come in with a fresh tattoo down earlier that day (graveyard shift) with nothing but a cheap paper sleeve covering it. Lacking saran wrap and the idiot not wanting to go home, my first response given his whole arm was an open wound, i pulled a kevlar sleeve out of the tool vending machine on company dime, told him to wear that and tell me if any dirt, grease, or dust got on the inked area (whole fucking sleeve); he had to soap off twice and ended up waiting three hours to mention a nasty rash that had sprung up on either end of the kevlar where the elastic was pinching. I told him to go home, I'd force him and speak with the super if necessary because he didn't want points, and to gently wash and get tattoo go on the thing before he got an infection or ruined the ink job.

Super ended up pointing him anyways and I didn't argue beyond stating the events, my metric, and my descision. He would've been pointed either way, but it'd be liability on the company if I let it go. didn't help the super never involved himself in my machines and operators when he wasn't stripping our section's logistics personnel to support the rest of the building, so by then I'd gotten used to calling every shot and not being allowed any excuses- lots of stories like that over a seven month period, but new one with such a braindead kid the same age as me pulling that big a stunt.

>>32697673
Live Action Role Play.

Like playing dungeons and dragons IRL, from what I've been told.

>>32697434
>it tends to terrify most people
Can anyone explain this part?

>>32697558
That's normal, you reacted well; so did he, seeing as his perceive-react complex pulled him out of death's range at the right moment.

>>32697713
I'm night-room-clear guy from earlier.

What I think he means is that most people put thought ahead of action more often than levelheaded action followed by thought. Either the idea of acting without thinking terrifies them or they cannot fathom coolly performing under stressful situations because they think too much, and that fact that it is possible for some people to circumvent their thought centers and act immediately is terrifying.

>I think, anyways.

>>32695349

I don't know if I hit or killed, but I have fired upon my fellow man before. Just find something that seems good to shoot at and start banging away.

I didn't think much about it, I was mad. This was before I enlisted. I think I'd think less of it now.

>>32697530
Work time here, I'll be monitoring on my breaks, but i probably won't be able to respond adequately for the next twelve hours.

>>32697713
Normally I make my face show casual emotives that other people do reflexively, when I'm stressed or 'rushing' it drops into what my sister calls resting bitchface, only people say I look like I'm two seconds away from killing someone. When I was in leadership that also came with moving seamlessly from one interaction to the next and barking out directions and requests, quote-unquote "like a drill sergeant having a bad day". The super had to come up one time and tell me to breath and count to ten. Another time my arms were juddering so bad i couldn't hold my clipboard straight while i told the super exactly how bad he was fucking me over, enough that he got beet red and posted up on me so close our noses almost touched before he turned away and stormed off and I had to remember how to blink. Like I said, it was an intense seven months and I would've kept going if they hadn't demoted back to logistics under my previous leadership that had put me up for the position.

>>32697789
See
>>32697902
I don't know what to call it, but it definitely wasn't cool under pressure, or it didn't look that way anyways, my demeanor literally intimidates people. There was just way too much going on to stop moving and everybody had a question about everything at once, literally switching gears on dozens of tasks every few seconds for hours at a time.

>>32697974
Oh. I see now.

Yeah, I get what you mean. I didn't earlier because you were a bit vague, but that you came back and explained it is great. It's a different perspective to productive use of fight-or-flight actions than firefights. Which, personally, I think the non-combat uses of it are more interesting than combat ones.

File: 1472683993342.jpg (197KB, 1670x1743px) Image search: [Google]

197KB, 1670x1743px

It actively takes effort not to shoot people during the course of most days. It's not a question of "could I?", it's a matter of "when can I?"

>-Albuquerque PD Officer

>>32697530
>This is honestly one of the most mature and deep conversations I've ever had on the chins.
When /k/ is in the right mood and on the right topic, it's pretty mature. It just sinks when /po/tards start going on about race or politics.

Even geopolitics tend to be reasonably well discussed on here. I was considering doing a thread about it because it kind of epitomises something Robert Newman said in his show History of Oil. You can get the most honest political truths about war from people who don't give a shit about the politics of war but only really the tactics and weapons of it.

>>32697586
>if they legitimately have a threat to their lives or they think they do, if they have a weapon on hand? Of course they'll shoot to kill
You can think that but it's objectively wrong. US army studied it pretty comprehensively and identified the moral factors and set about destroying them in training. It's one reason that they're are/were one of the best armies in the world.

You can be as edgy as you like but they studied it and their results support them.

Shoot-to-kill rates were low before, they sky-rocketed with their newly developed training methods.

The Falklands war was one war in which one side used desensitisation training and the other didn't. The results in infantry battles and shoot-to-kill rates were consistent with expected outcomes.

>>32698056
>It actively takes effort not to shoot people during the course of most days. It's not a question of "could I?", it's a matter of "when can I?"
Whilst not surprising, you should not be a police officer.

>>32698274
>Robert Newman
On the USA: https://youtu.be/GIpm_8v80hw?t=50

And why I think he's right about /k/ and politics.
https://youtu.be/GIpm_8v80hw?t=140

>>32695349
I'm an incredibly sensitive person, every movie, sad video, dog abuse video, they always make me tear up and cry. But i have absolute confidence that i would pull the trigger if i needed to. Maybe i have no idea since ive never been in that situation with a fire arm, but i already have defended myself in the past from home invaders and criminals and that was without a gun, and this played a major role in obtaining a firearm.

I had the exact same feeling you secribe with the house clearing story after the fact, I realized I fearlessly confronted over 5 people with absoltuely no weapon, i realized my instinctual reaction endangered me incredibly and that i was simply lucky things ended with them running away.

File: 1484519246196.jpg (24KB, 296x283px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 296x283px

>>32695596
>When I larp

>>32695596
>lindybeige detected
He always relates his ancient combat videos to his fucking larping like it supports his argument

Maybe that's more for people living in "peaceful" places like the 3rd world.

Do you think a Central American would give a single fuck if he managed to magdump in the face of an intruder?

In /int/ and /pol/ you can see a lot of people from the 3rd world saying "a good criminal is a dead criminal".

>>32698712
>places like the 1st world

Fix'd. Scrambled things a little bit.

>>32698712
>Do you think a Central American would give a single fuck if he managed to magdump in the face of an intruder?
Yes.

Unless they're a child soldier brutalised into sociopathy, they care about killing people. The success rate of 1st world soldiers against 3rd world soldiers demonstrates this though I grant that there are many other advantages.

>>32698712
>In /int/ and /pol/ you can see...
Please don't suggest /int/ or /pol/ are full of normal people.

>...a lot of people from the 3rd world saying "a good criminal is a dead criminal".
Edgelords are a global phenomenon, not a first world problem. Look at Duertes, an edgelord president if there ever was one.


Something that's worth factoring into your thinking though is that this is a training issue, it applies largely to rookie units, not veterans. Actual sustained combat, assuming you live through it, is likely to provide this kind of training in the course of events. The problem is that without it, your side is much less likely to win and for you to live through it. So your soldiers surrender or die and your unit doesn't become veterans. The side that starts with this kind of training are closer to veterans than yours.

>>32697902
Sounds like textbook sociopathy, which does not mean that you are required to become a serial killer; you just have to be a little more deliberate and cautious in dealing with social situations.

>>32699755
Well, I mean, now that someone else said it I don't feel so edgy thinking I might be, so, thank you. That also means, if that is a correct diagnosis, I can almost assuredly pull the trigger.

>>32700000
Of course that also means I'm a liability in the long-term welfare of a group, statistically speaking, and my relationships will almost always be horrid affairs.

There sure is a lot of reading in this thread. I think you guys are too smart for me

File: 1481514902358.jpg (321KB, 782x788px) Image search: [Google]

321KB, 782x788px

>>32695349
I could shoot to kill with my spandau but now that I'm an officer I can't crouch or go prone anymore.

File: IMG_3426.jpg (27KB, 286x405px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 286x405px

>>32700000
Quints of truth.

>>32695349
Not a good conversation..

File: 1464298302480.jpg (89KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 640x640px

>>32700000
Highly auspiscious quints for a mad man.

>>32695349
In basic the Chaplin told us killing is justified and that killing in war was not the same as murder. It also helps if you dont see your enemy as humans. I know that sounds edgy but it helps.

File: IMG_6659.jpg (65KB, 500x500px)

65KB, 500x500px

>>32695349
I had a dream where I saw a guy walking onto my property and I confronted him just by saying something like "What are you doing, you can't be here." Or some shit like that. Anyway, he pulled a knife and moved towards me and in that moment I was fully prepared to kill him. I know it's only a dream but whilst I was in it I was fully immersed and believed it was real. I was scared but at the same time angry that this cunt thought he could just wave a knife at me and I'd just fall on the floor crying or something. I'm trained in martial arts, I'm not amazing at it but I'm good enough that with a bit of luck I could stop a guy with a knife, disarm him and put him in a restraint. In the dream I had just started to move to begin what was going to be a hip throw whilst controlling the arm he was holding the knife with but than I fucking woke up.

Tl;dr If someone attacked me I'm pretty sure I have the right state of mind to kill them.

>>32701385
See
>>32696957
You can dehumanize the enemy easier if you also dehumanize yourself, no hatred necessary.

File: 1481413823881.jpg (297KB, 1280x1381px)

297KB, 1280x1381px

>What experiences has /k/ had like this.

I'll pasta a post I wrote on another site. It fucked me up for a while, and still freaks me out now and then when I really think about it. My best friend who was there on the night took his own life last month :/. Excuse the wall of text.

"I was just seconds from shooting one of my fellow servicemen...I can't stop thinking about how close I came to killing a man. I know it's the military, killing is what we do. But I never expected it to go down the way it did...
It pitch black at night. CPL, LCPL, friend (PTE) and I (MPs) are tasked to check whoever comes and goes from X gate in and out of the exercise area.

After hours of inactivity, a car comes flying towards the gate, pretty obious driver was probably under the influence of something. He stops, I approach the window, the smell of alcohol is sudden and the driver is clearly off his head drunk.
We tell him to turn the engine off and step out, show us his ID...Tells us he lost it. We ask for name, number etc and we look him up, he's listed. CPL says here's the deal we'll look the other way and not inform your boss, leave your car here and anon will take you to your quarters, collect your car another day.

He instantly became aggressive. Screaming about not wanting to leave his car.
I tell him to calm down and start walkng towards him....that's when he walks over to his car and pulls out a knife...a fucking big one. LCPL and I both drew our pistols, he was on my side and the guy was in front of me.
The knife wielding guy started pacing towards me, the kind of walk where you know he was beyond turning back. I was shouting as loudly as I could for him to stop and back up, he kept coming and closing the distance. I took aim, finger on the trigger, sights square on his chest. Literally about to fire.

I was ignorant to the fact that he had walked right past LCPL, who basically sudenly came up behind him and tackled him to the ground. From there we disarmed and subdued him.

>>32695764
my first thought lol

I like dick.

>>32696067
I've gone on unsuccessful hunting trips (dad's a fucking fudd) and never once felt revulsion or anxiety about killing animals, though I'll admit I've not had a chance to put it into practice.

Animal torture/cruelty does disgust me, but not to the point of an extreme emotional response

>>32695349
not to be edgy but I would skin a fucker alive if I thought it would increase my chance at survival

File: George_Takei_oh_my.jpg (27KB, 325x345px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 325x345px

>>32703865

File: 1471536807304.png (345KB, 500x560px) Image search: [Google]

345KB, 500x560px

>>32695596
>when I larp

>>32695349

I probably could but I would need a really, really good reason for it and I still wouldn't like it afterwards.