What is the simplest fire control group ever used in an

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>>32688397
>open bolt conversion
>No hammer, and simpler safety selector
>just a large lever connected to the trigger, and a notch cut in the BCG
>FA only

Hard press to find a simpler trigger design in a rifle caliber

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When it comes to semi-auto, I doubt you can beat the AR-7's bizarre integrated disconnector trigger group for simplicity.

The hammer basically slaps the trigger into disconnecting. Feels weird man.

>>32688397
gatlin gun

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>>32688397
probably something open bolt but as an amerifag i don't have much experience with or knowledge of open bolt firearms, i would be willing to bet a tube gun though. in terms of numbers of components you can't get much simpler than trigger, sear, bolt.

>>32688909
maybe getting a bit semantic but a gatling is not automatic in both senses, it is not self loading nor is it capable of true automatic fire

>>32688397
The simplest triggers are those found in open-bolt machine guns. The trigger simply lowers a hook. Holding the trigger down releases the bolt, letting up catches it.

If you don't count MGs, then next simplest would be something like the AR-15. If you think about it, it's exactly the same principle as the Garand, but with several parts combined, greatly simplifying things.

If by automatic you mean full auto capable, I would nominate an AR-15 with a lightning-link.

But I'm sure someone will come along and point out why I'm dead wrong, and I will probably agree with that person.

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is "nothing" an acceptable answer?

>>32688882
sounds awful. Would be cool if the hammer move in a way to avoid the slap though. Like put a groove in the bolt to slide the hammer to the side and then back under the disconnect

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>>32689115
>no trigger

fucking triggered.

>>32689160

To be fair, it slaps it further backwards.

Though if you've pulled it aggressively, it'll slap it forwards, and then backwards again, which might be uncomfortable.

Like the whole AR-7 package, the trigger group is not really built for comfort or precision.

>>32689115
>start shooting
>cant stop

>>32688397
Open bolt slam fire.
No trigger.
No sear.
Pull the charging handle back and let it slam.
Fires till empty.

>>32689115
Now just slap a sleve on there with which you can rotate and force the bolt handle back in the safety notch during the back stroke.

>>32688991
How does the AR trigger compare to the AK in terms of complexity?

>>32690291
pretty much the same thing really.

>>32688397
>spot weld firing pin
>remove whole FCG
>drop bolt

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>>32690291
pretty much the same, the difference is just how the primary sear holds the hammer

here's an AK

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>>32690764
here's an AR

>>32689165
kek

>>32688472
Has some dude in an armory ever gotten bored enough to put rifle furniture on this thing?

>>32688882

That thing is a fucking PITA to get back into the gun.

It wouldn't be so bad if the pin that the spring hooks onto was actually permanently attached to the trigger. Instead, you have to push it through, hold it while you hook the rear side of the spring onto it and then somehow get the other side on without the pin falling through.

You guys got any good drawings of DAO triggers?

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>>32691836
From what I know of the gun you can't swap out the buffer tube because the buffer tube / buffer system is different because of the open bolt function. They did have grease gun style stocks though that were sexy as fuck

>>32690769
For some reason this .gif is mesmerizing to me.

>>32690769
what would happen if you shaved the hook off the top of the sear in the green?

>>32692681
it would fire 1 round normally then stop working entirely. youd get hammer follow since the timing would be all fucked up. the hammer would fall before the bolt closed.

>>32692681
Yeah I just thought the same thing

>>32688397
open bolt

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FG-42
it's like an open bolt, but it's also closed bolt.

>>32691836
Some have wire stocks

>>32692712
I wonder if removing the firing pin spring and having a heavier hammer spring would cause it to fire with the hammer down. Maybe thats how the m27 and Jim Sullivan m4 mod work with an open bolt.

>>32692895
there is no firing pin spring and also no a heavier hammer spring would probably not do anything other than affect how much resistance the bolt carrier faces on the rearward stroke and make the trigger worse

>>32692895
No, it wouldn't. What you are proposing will not work. Stop, you aren't smart.

GUYS

What is the trigger and hammer were a single piece, with a central pivot pin? And you just had to slam that shit? Would it work?

>>32694883
>What is the trigger and hammer were a single piece, with a central pivot pin?
Huh???

>>32688397
basically any open bolt tube gun ever made

>>32694921
It makes complete sense as a mechanical concept, it's just completely retarded in application.


Think of a two bladed windmill, one blade is the trigger, the other is the hammer. You pull one blade towards you, the trigger, and the other moves away from you, the hammer.

>>32694883

>What is the trigger and hammer were a single piece, with a central pivot pin? And you just had to slam that shit? Would it work?

Yes, however, it would probably also break your fucking finger when the thing cycled. and pushed the hammer back.

>>32688472
It's funny because this is actually a thing. You don't even need a trigger group, just add weight to the firing pin. Fire by releasing the bolt and stop firing by dropping the mag.

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/4y2zcc/guns_gangs_and_the_glawk_40_part_3_class_3_edition/

>>32694965
Wow, I didn't think he could get that stupid.

>>32695049
>It's funny because this is actually a thing.
Yes, open bolt firearms are a thing. Welcome to 100 years ago.

>>32695168
Welcome to 15 years ago, chimps did this in Chiraq to make choppers F/A.

>>32694883
It's a simple way to make muzzle loader that uses a burning cord to ignite it be a little less clumsy, so you can hold the thing with 2 hands. In other words, it's a centuries obsolete idea. Trying that shit in a modern auto-loader is a recipe for getting your finger knocked off when the bolt moves back. The closest you could get to this is a lever action with a lever that locks the bolt in, and then in the last 2 degrees of rotation, releases the hammer.

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>>32689273
if you only needed semi auto you could curve the charging handle slot so that it goes back into the notch every time. Make it less of notch, more a shelf, and move the handle with your finger to fire. It's not safe at all, but fuck it

>>32695652
you could have a bunch of rubber bands on the charging handle instead of a spring too

>>32695652
Why wouldn't it be safe? Just add a little slot somewhere in there for a safety and you're good.

>>32695043
The trigger doesn't move that far. Just put some cushioning on that shit, don't be a pussy and you're good.

>>32696060
I was thinking drop safe. Yeah just keep the regular safety slot on there

Someday if ever, when full auto guns become legal again. The gun industry would have to reinvent the open bolt gun.

The first few years they would be shit. Everyone on /k/ would shit on them and call open bolt a meme. Then gun manufacturering would finally figure it out and make killer open bolt guns 20 years later.

>>32689115
>this tube made the ATF have a shitfit

>>32692681
The hammer would ride the bolt of the second shot and it may fire out of battery.

>>32689256
why would you want it to stop

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>>32697163
What if you gave it something to hook and hold onto? And what if you made that surface able to rotate over at the flick of a switch so that you can have it not engage if you want.

>>32697202
I don't get why you think this would happen. Open bolt blowbacks can't be substantially improved upon, especially not at a good price point. I would like to see what companies could come up with, but they wouldn't be much more than repackaged Uzis or Swedish Ks.

>>32697599
I think a simpler solution is just tacking a little hook/wire loop on there that holds the charging handle when engaged.

>>32692681
The hammer would follow the bolt immediately and nothing would happen.

>>32692776
It fires automatically from an open bolt, and from a "closed" bolt for semi.

>>32695043
What if it was some form of ratchet system, so it only goes one way?

>>32688472
This, fixed or weighted firing pin firing from an open bolt on full auto only is so simple they literally handed out plans to build them in Britain and instructed people to build them in their garages. They named it the STEN. It took about five man-hours to make one weapon and it cost about $10 to produce—about $130 a weapon today when you account for inflation. The Sten was highly unreliable, prone to jamming, and inaccurate beyond 30 meters. It was unsuitable for guerrilla operations in open country because it encouraged waste of ammunition. But it was easy and cheap to produce.

With modern technology one could easily convert practically any semi automatic into full auto in a few hours with easy to obtain parts and tools, people don't because full auto has no practical purpose and is highly illegal. Negros would do it as they are naturally criminals but after all, as a species, they never even managed to invent the wheel.

>>32698259
>Sten
We're talking about rifles, everybody knows that blowback tube guns are as simple as it gets.

>>32688472
Port guns are badass. I've fucked with one on open range days.