There is literally no point to red dots anymore with variable

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>>32674259

yeah but scopes look like AIDS on an AK, I like my T2 aimpoint on my SLR

>>32674259
I guess...Maybe? I disagree, sir!

>>32674259
variable scopes can have bad parallax errors.

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>>32674295
>Looks

>>32674259
$200 can buy you an excellent red dot, but a shitty scope.

>>32674259
Infinite eye relief.

>>32674358
Decent point I suppose but for a general purpose combat rifle it's inferior.

>variable scopes
Are bigger, heavier, frequently don't have true 1x,and parallax issues.

>>32674295
why'd you mount a flashlight in front of your scope, you won't see anything lmao baka fucking retard!

>>32674259
So, what was the point of this thread?
Why say something is "literally useless" and than go on to give an exact use for it?

>>32674571

>it's offset to the left

are you retarded?

>>32674579
Because you see everyone's general purpose combat rifles with red dots because they think it's tacticool when it's pretty shit at the job compared to modern variables.

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>>32674571

Hmm...good thing they make offset mounts!

>>32674602
If money wasn't an issue sure but variable scopes are pointless for most intermediate rifle calibers.

>>32674674
How? .223 is easily effective up to 500m how is a scope pointless for those distances? Even less a scope beats a red dot.

>>32674259

>GUISE.....GUISE. I HAVE AN OPINION ON SOMETHING AND IF YOU DONT AGREE YOU'RE A FAG. IT'S NOT LIKE MY FAT ASS WILL EVER ACTUALLY USE THIS CRAP I'M BUYING IN ANY REAL SITUATION I JUST WANNA PRETEND I'M GONNA SHOOT IVAN AT 400 METERS BUT IN REALITY I'D DIE IN THE FIRST WAVE BUT DON'T DO WHAT I DON'T LIKE THANKS.

So can you list some decent variables that are cheap or at least before 500

>>32674767

Below 500*

>>32674259
I use a T1 on my AR because I don't have delusions of grandeur in which I can hit anything smaller than a man at 200 yards.

I can ring a 14" plate all day at 150 yards or so even standing but a man has to know his limits.

>>32674713
It's already been said for the money of a scope that doesn't have parallax issues you can equip two rifles with great low magnification red dots. You can use them great for up to 300 yards just fine and further if you practice. Variable scopes for a .308 have a much better argument

>>32674259
>there is no point to variable optics if you're shooting inside of 300 yards
>if you're shooting past 300 yards you need a minimum 4 power
>if you need to shoot at close distances and several hundred yards you have severely misunderstood your "mission"

>>32675069
More than 1x even helps even out to 100 yards certainly under 300.

>Noguns
>Can't greentext

>>32674585
>>32674613
it's obviously directly in front you fucking retards s m h

>>32675086
Variables are a completely different topic you stupid shit, magnifiers also have their downsides but are magnitudes less shitty than a poorly made variable

>>32675962
Lmao a good magnifier and red dot is more or as much as a variable and shittier retard

I'm intrigued. I was going to buy a T2. Are there any good variable scopes for around that price point?

A lot of 1x in variable scopes aren't actually 1x. Especially in cheaper scopes.

>>32676056
Trijicon accupower maybe

765 on optics planet right now no first hand experience but I've heard good things

>>32676008
>he thinks the 50 dollar budget variables are worth anything

>>32676223
>50 dollars

Viper PST is a good budget variable I hear positive things about and is under 500 right now

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>>32674259
>There is literally no point to red dots anymore

The fuck does my WASR need a variable-power scope for? That's my AR's game.

>>32676240
I hear positive things about PTAC too, that doesn't mean anything to anyone who actually plans on using it for more than pinking, Either spend the money for a good variable scope or don't bother with middling nonsense

>>32676298
I have no probs with vortex optics

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>>32676056

t2 is good to go with g33 magnifier if personal defense is your MO, assuming this a 5.56 carbine or an SBR we're talking about

a side note on scopes both variable and fixed, make sure you get one with mil dots or some sort of ballistic drop measurements if you plan on doing serious work with it cause it will be easier to commit to muscle memory what distances are where with those little markings

>>32676056
>I'm intrigued
Please don't be, OP is fucking retarded and probably hasn't dealt with either variable power glass or red dots. Red dots have better eye relief, are quicker in target acquisition, and have less parallax. Users with variable power optics almost invariably just leave them on the 4x or 6x setting.

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>>32674259
Why not both?

>>32674259
Weight probably. And I don't care what anybody says, it's still slower to acquire a target unless you've practiced getting the perfect cheekweld and eye relief like 10000x

>>32674783
>Can't hit anything smaller than a man at 200 yards
Nigger what? That shit is beyond easy

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>>32676816
You are like a little baby.

>>32677053
People have done loads of time tests and comparisons and it's always either the same or basically within the margin of error

>>32677110
Like I said, I don't care. I can't get it to be as fast so I'm selling my 1-4. End of discussion

>>32677123
Also paralax is fucking aweful. God forbid I move the tiniest bit or my sight picture goes to shit

>>32677110
Try moving targets.

>>32677079

fuck this optic my eyes dont do chinaman shit

>>32677123
>Hurr I'm retarded muh anecdotes end of discussion

Whatever faggot but don't act like everyone else is an incompetent dumbass like you

>>32677198
>Just me
>Not multiple people
You can stop defending your purchase now, vortex has already deposited your weekly stipend

>>32677224
No you fucking retard because like I said all tests actually numbered (actually TIMED) show that a variable is the same or within margin of error from a red dot. Every one I have seen. I even recommended a trij earlier you fucking mongoloid so get out of her with that vortex shit.

>>32674782
Strike eagle

>>32677238
Just as many people don't like them as do. It's okay, people are allowed to have opinions that are different than your own, it's part of what makes america great

>>32677250
And I said if you're slower or FEEL like you are then fine but don't act like that's not a worthless piece of anecdote and that they are in actuality slower than a RDS because it's not true.

>>32674259
>wanting eye relief on your 1x optic you need to have the fastest speed possible on

LOL!

>>32677262
>Multiple people have this opinion
>Don't act like it's not just you
Okay dude. It's gonna look like I'm leaving but.. yeah.

>>32677283
An opinion you dumb redditard not verifiable proof. Go look up timed runs for yourself.

>>32677238
different guy but I put a 1-8x on my AR but considering taking it off. the almost pound of weight it added really shows. magnification helps but isn't really seeming worth the weight

>>32677298
How fucking heavy is it man

If I had a gun I knew was only cqb AND for SURE sub 50 yards yes I would run a micro but other than that no

>>32677293
>Autists playing high speed with their rifles is representative of your usual shooter
Jesus christ can you just stop? How is it a good thing that it takes training to be able to use it somewhat as effectively to use as something it's supposed to be just as effective as when what it's supposed to beat is basic plug and play shit? Do you even listen to yourself? Am I supposed to run around timing myself like nutnfancy to be able to have an opinion on shit?

>>32674783

You're pretty limited, so red dots are meant for you I guess.

I carry a red dot because my department won't let me carry anything else. They know most cops suck with their firearms and can't be trusted to make good decisions with them, so I carry an Aimpoint.

>>32677330
It's not "training" one I'm talking about is literally someone running a course with a variable and then switching and doing the same with an RDS

I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion retard the problem I have is you saying they're slower than an RDS based on nothing but one anecdote and we don't even know what variable or RDS you use.

>>32677305
>sub 50 yards
what? sub 50 I wouldn't even spend the money on anything and just run irons. have you ever left your house? do you know how close 50 yards is.

>>32674613
I'm comvinced anyone who posts like this is high

>>32677371
Yes and do you know how close you're likely to defend yourself from or where you'll actually reasonably use an AR ?

If it's for hunting or outdoors non urban I'll go with a variable. If it's super close quarter indoor I'll go RDS .

Still better visibility and acquisition than irons

Are you one of those people who think you don't have to aim in close range?

>>32674713
>.223 is easily effective up to 500m
>200ft-lbs of energy
you're over stating your case

>>32674259

Well you have some point but the best thing about red dots are they do not need eye relief , unlike a lot of variables even those that don't "have eye relief" still need to have a certain relief along with a certain angle to see it. Red dots don't have that issue. Granted best suited for 1-200 yards hell 300 yards can be fine but after 300 is pushing it a lot.

I'll post pics of my AK with a PK-01v later.

>>32677407
I get it but I don't see it being an issue with consistent cheek weld and a forgiving optic

>>32677383
>Are you one of those people who think you don't have to aim in close range?
I'm the type of person that knows I can almost instantly find my front sight just over top of my rear aperture, and hit center mass on any person within the distances limited by the interior of my house. I don't need an RDS for that. professionals have been doing this for decades, and I've practiced it.

do you even have an AR? I'd love to see your set-up.

>>32677469
Why do you think people buy red dots then? If iron sights are just as good up close according to you then why would everyone buy a no magnification red dot

>>32677079
>>32677144
It's a fucking Leopold D-EVO

So memetastic but I want one. Fucking $1500.

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>>32674259
I was hitting pop cans with ease at 75 yards
>5.5" barrel
>subsonic ammo

>>32677433

It's harder to get a more accurate shot if you have to snap the rifle up with a varible than red dot and with dimmer light it's also hard to see the target. Other side easier to pick a target from far away with the variable also easier to know if the target is really down or if they require another love tap.

Both have negatives and positives , just have to weigh in what you like and what best suits your needs. Red dots are not going to be replaced any time soon.

>>32677491
>$1500
that's like mid-range price for a optic, you fucking poorfag.

>>32677532
$1,949.99

>>32677488
>Why do you think people buy red dots then?
why do you? RDS are great, because they are VERSATILE, but you seems to hold the opposite opinion, and think that their effectiveness ends at 50 yards. if they stopped being a benefit at 50, nobody would by them, they'd just stick to irons for that role.

I'm just getting the impression that you've watched too many Nutnfancy videos, and don't actually shoot an AR

>>32677558
Nope I just think past a certain distance having the option of magnification is far more useful and as it stands high end variables are far better for an general purpose optic than a red dot.

>>32674259
Maybe.. until you have to shoot at a weird angle.

>>32677621
it's hard to find a variable that is both durable and not a boat anchor. if you have suggestions, I'll take a look, but as far as I can tell, it's better to just learn to shoot a RDS at 3 and 4 hundred. it's really not that hard. worst case, maybe a QD magnifier that you drag out when the situation dictates, but not even really a big fan of that

>>32677532
In the past five years I have dealt with getting brain damage and gaining $54,000 in total accumulated debt. I just paid it all off and I've only been able to seriously pay it for the past two years. Eat a sack of dicks random internet twat.

>>32677621

red dot fills more roles

you can switch between a quick detach magnifier and night vision device without having to change zero and throwing off rifle weight balance and its far easier to acquire a target in close quarters than any variable scope on 1x

using NODs with a 1-6x or a fixed power scope like an ACOG presents problems unless you have PEQ15/DBAL or other IR laser on your shit, most tritium scopes wash out and variables are hardly useable with pvs-7s or a pvs-14 without an awkward posture in conjunction with a scope

different uses, red dots in the civ world are really just for competition an home defense though

>>32674259
yes, that's why 3 gunners no longer use red dots

>>32678044
This

For all the tards shit talking me when speed counts even the pro competition guys don't agree with their red dot philosophy for varied ranges and scenarios.

>>32674259
>Being this retarded
You can put hits on targets easy 500-800 yards with a dot. They are incredibly lightweight and compact.

>>32678479
Yeah that's why 3 Gunners and hunters all use red dots right

>800 yards with no magnification

lmao

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>>32674295

Fuck your shit. I like being able to see what I'm shooting at.

>>32678485
Doable if you know hold overs like the back of your hand and don't have shit eyesight.

>>32678505
Yeah I'd like to fucking see it

That doesn't mean 30x30 targets downhill on an open desert painted neon green either.

>>32677079
so... why doesn't this $1900 scope have co-witness?

>>32678059
Pro competition guys have different goals than most people, there's a reason why the speed chute and shotgun speed loaders aren't market standard or why people don't drill speed holes in their AR receivers and why they sacrifice cover to find a better shooting angle.

Red dots work fine for 99% of shooters using intermediate caliber rifles and is at price point where you can have a great one compared to an okay ish to poor variable scope .

>>32677715
Maybe if you had stayed away from 4chan, you wouldn't have had brain damage.

>>32678485
3 Gun is the equivalent of fencing compared to HEMA and most hunters who take out their rifles more often than once a year for durr season use irons just fine.

>>32678044
>3 gunners
>open class
>pistol: red dot
>shotgun: red dot
>rifle: magnified scope plus red dot
>no longer use red dots

>>32677737
>using NODs with a 1-6x or a fixed power scope like an ACOG presents problems unless you have PEQ15/DBAL or other IR laser on your shit

also

>having to go active and make a literal line from wherever you are aiming to where you are
>every time you want to fire at night

There is a reason why red dots are good, even if you are using a variable scope and need to slap one at 45 / on top. You should never NOT have a red dot

>I need the image of my target to be blown up 8x in front of my face to be able to hit it: The Thread

The only reason you don't like red dots is because you can't shoot for shit.

>>32678573
>What is target acquisition
>What is extended rage

Laughing at all the hard kids here who think its super easy to make a shot out to 500 yards with a 2 moa 1x red dot.

But, I do only shoot indoor distances with my HD rifle, OP.

Stick to reading Chuck Tingle and stay off this board.

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>>32678578
>extended rage
Like that one.

>>32674503
This
>>32674559
And this

I love variable power
But they don't replace red dot completely

>>32678495

>tapco

opinion discarded

>>32674259

I'm glad that you like the new scope you saved up for (or just put on a credit card). Howeevr, in the future, please don't shit up this board trying to justify your decisions.

>Red Dots are fun.
>Magnified scopes are fun
>iron sights are fun

Basically, putting the bullet where you want it to go is fun, and it's neat that there are many ways to do it. However, trying to wrap your preferred style of bullet placing fun in some sort of tactical/happening/I'm the most prepared for for zombies package is just embarrassing. Get some self confidence, and care less about needing strangers to agree with you. You'll be much happier.

>>32677332

"They know"

Says the guy wearing the same uniform as "they".

If I wanted the 2cents from some civil servant who needed a Government job, I'd hang out at the DMV.

>>32674358
>$200 can buy you an excellent red dot
What do you consider an "excellent" red dot for $200? Any recommendations?

>inb4 Primary Arms
Tried them, they're shit.

>>32674783
>can ring a 14" plate all day at 150 yards
>can't hit anything smaller than a man at 200 yards

an extra 50 yard makes that much difference in your accuracy that you can hit a 14" target at 150 yards but completely miss anything smaller than a man at 200?

Red dots are for guns dedicated for use under 200 meters, after that a variable scope outclasses it but something like 95% of all gunfights happen under 200 meters anyway.

>>32680280
Vortex Strikefire II nigga

Got mine for $170 or so. Fuckin' love it.

>>32680280
>Tried them, they're shit.
What the fuck issues did you have with their $170 dot you cretin?

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>>32674713
Holosun and Primary Arms have dots with BDC out to 600 yards. They also feature range estimator.

>>32680328
I can't hit it reliably like I can the plate. Those extra 50 yards must be enough to throw off my left to right hold.

>>32681321

if aimpoint released a t-3 with a similar reticle it would probably shit all over eotech and you'd see guys using this over an eotech in combination with a magnifier

that would be ideal as all hell and weight saving since the 2 moa dot leaves alot to be desired

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>>32681474
It is nice to see that smaller companies are still driving innovation. ACOGs picked up the primary arms ACSS.