ITT: /k/ is a Panzer Battalion of Panzer IVs during the

*runs out of gas*

>>32673385
This battalion had a dedicated refueling company, which siphons fuel from any destroyed enemy vehicles.

Is that a Typhoon attacking those allied columns?

>>32673416
Typhoons only killed 3 tanks in the entire war after a study by the MOD

I laugh as I roll past an abandoned Jagdtiger

>>32673354
Calling all Thunderhawks, Calling all Thunderhawks.
You got Kraut Panzers parked within your range.
Good hunting.

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>>32673354
i always liked the stug III

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*drops track and sinks into mud*

>>32673354

Anyone got a siphon hose?

Who won the world series?

What does Mickey Mouse look like?

>>32673416
IIRC During the first few days (day?) there was no fighter cover because the weather was complete shit which is a good reason why the first push was so strong. However after the weather cleared one of the largest if not the largest (in terms of numbers) air missions was started I'm trying to find the source with the correct numbers

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>>32673354
>wanting to be a filthy loser wehracuck
i want to liberate Europe

>>32676080
>I can't pretend because I'm a fag and always have to be a party pooper

>>32673354
>[Dies]

Not in a Stug.
Not onna Pak.

>>32673405
>siphons fuel from any destroyed enemy vehicles.

Take out Diesel fuel from external T-34 tanks.
Fill Diesel in a Maybach Patrolium engine all the way to the tap off.
This kills the engine.

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>>32674123
Stug is in infantry regiments bruh.

>>32673477
Source? Because that sounds like horseshit

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>>32674142
>sinks into mud
The Panzer IV's ground pressure is 0.89kg per cm, while the M4's is 0.96.

>>32678267
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/combat-aircraft-versus-armour-in-wwii/#Normandy%201944:%20the%20RAF%E2%80%99s%20and%20USAF%E2%80%99s%20Story

While this doesn't confirm his claim, it does put into perspective just how overrated WW2 fighter-bombers are when it comes to tank cracking.

>get so ass blasted about green American GIs and fucking Artillery observation units are knocking out my panthers with bazookas I plan the slaughter the first group I capture.

What could go wrong?

>>32678336
Man, Panzer IVs are my favorite German tank.

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>>32673354

"W-Well all the fuel has been reallocated to the Panther's and Tiger II's. G-Guess we're pillboxes!"

>>32678498
that is one cringey picture.

>>32678553

>implying you wouldn't fug a tank girl.

>>32678577
I would fug the tank grills

kursk was the dumbest attack ever and every german general except hitler knew it. the delay he forced upon the army because he wanted his new tanks to be ready was a catastrophic mistake. during the delay the russians turned kursk into an impenetrable fortress, with huge soviet reserve armies waiting to counter attack once the german attack was halted.

it was the exact same mistake hitler made with his delayed advance on moscow (russians fortified city and brought in reserves to launch immediate counter attacks). the germans pissed away all of their primary tank/airforce strength. had the germans gone on the defensive they would have had huge reserve armies of highly mobile and experienced tank divisions which would easily be able to destroy anything the russians threw at them.

but of course hitler being the insecure cuck that he was, he didn't want to be defensive and instead wasted his most valuable assets by attacking at the worst moment. the russians were so well informed over the kursk battle they even launched a massive pre-emptive artillery strike. that must have been a nice wake-up call for those germans who thought they were gonna kick ivans ass.

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*gearbox grinding noises*

>>32678641
In all ways except physical I am a Panther.
[catches fire]

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>>32676080
me too, but with this tank.

>>32676726
Kind-of-sort-of. That was their original intent, and how they were ideally deployed, yes. But as the war drug on, StuGs were used as stand-ins for Panzers in armored formations more and more.

>>32678336
>The Panzer IV's ground pressure is 0.89kg per cm, while the M4's is 0.96.
This is something I wish more people would realize. The pop-history telling of the relationship between the M4 Medium and comparable German tanks is that the M4 was a highly-mobile speedster while the German tanks were all slow. Sadly, it's a far more complex and complicated issue that can't just be summed up in a single phrase like that.

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>>32673354
Here's a novel idea: what if we all attacked at once, instead of one regiment at a time?

>>32678655

The M10 isn't a tonk senpai

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>>32673354
We're gonna die anyway so i want to be transfered to the either heavy tank batalion or to the batalion with Panthers.
>IF IM GOING TO DIE, IM GOING TO DIE HISTORIC IN THE SEXY TANK

>>32673354
>Buldge

We are too illiterate to read maps and drive to Switzerland where we are interned. At least we survive.

>>32676670
>Take out Diesel fuel from external T-34 tanks.

In the Ardennes. Diesel. T-34.

Did you have a stroke or are you always this ignorant?

>Patrolium
A very Patriotic fuel.

>>32678647
You can see the shots that do hit just bouncing off

>>32676726
Wat movie dat from?

>>32679761
Somme Funnland war movie, you can tell becasue it's a stug with a swastika that was placed in a way only Finns did.

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>>32679713
This, we're fucked anyway so i want to ride in the coolest tonk.

>>32679760
Off the ground, perhaps. That's a horse and carriage.

>>32673354

>Anon, why are we fighting the only fully mechanized army in the world when we still use horse carts and messenger pigeons?

>I don't know, man. You gunna finish that steamed chunk of boot leather?

>>32673354
Hey kameraden, Ich habe der neues Panzerkampfwagen V!

*breaks final drive*

>>32679761
Tali Ihantala

>>32673354
I've got a bulge you can battle right here

>>32680800
>>32679713
>>32678641

A lot of crucial german machines were made with salve labor, it does not take a genius to know that there's going to be sabotage. You'd think that germans would use people who wouldn't want to sabotage as many machines as possible, like seriosuly. Those things are supposed to be the core of your army. How about not uisng people who would fuck them up on purpouse.

>>32673354
>wheels break down due to no ball-bearings
>catastrophic transmission and engine failure due to poor quality parts, lack of proper maintenance, mishandling and infrequent repairs
>*runs out of fuel*
>incoming enemy bombing run
>surrender after losing all vehicles and running out of food due to no supply lines
>>32681034
Because they had no choice. Germany had catastrophic shortages of everything starting in late 1941; most of their supply lines consisted of horses and stolen civilian vehicles.

>>32681144
>Because they had no choice. Germany had catastrophic shortages of everything starting in late 1941; most of their supply lines consisted of horses and stolen civilian vehicles.
That's not what i meant. Why weren't they using german citizes who wouldn't want to fuck up their machines during production. Do you have any idea how much of german equipment starting from small arms to the cannons for their planes were fucked becasue slave laborers germans used were fucking up everything they could,
>piss instead of coolant
>not using all screws
>putting wrong parts together
>etc

>>32681210
They had no choice. The entire German labor force was already engaged in the war effort, and it wasn't nearly enough. So they had to use slaves for everything, including building V2 rockets. The only alternative they had to slave labor would be not having those tanks and missiles built at all.

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>>32676080
Agreed.
>this kills the German industry

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>>32679700
You are a burger?
So at least one burger gots tricked. According to Skorzeny only young recruits could be tricked: >„nur des Nachts aus weiterer Entfernung und dann auch nur vielleicht jungen amerikanischen Rekruten gegenüber gelingen“
It´s a german Panther from the Unternehmen Greif.

>>32681210
>>32681244
They were tasked to capacity starting in mid 1942. IIRC the only net positive during the entire war for Axis in terms of production of goods (civil and military) was Germany for a few months in early 1943 under Albert Speer, who was an architect by trade (as in h built buildings until he was told to head wartime production because everybody else was an idiot). Also, rates of sabotage were low, as it would almost certainly result in a one way ticket to a camp, both for you, your family and anybody around you. It certainly happened, but when your biggest concern is survival, you'll play ball, even if it's with the devil.

>>32678655
Wait a sec

Something doesn't seem right... Your wheels look different from an M4, comrade.

>>32681318
I-It's n-neue suspension kammera-friend.

>>32681318

OK, you are no young recruit. Take a look @ >>32681273

>>32681034
Even if there was sabotage on a scale large enough to matter, even well manufactured German tanks had a number of significant inherent deficiencies.

Most had shit suspension and unreliable engines. The interleaved road wheels on the Tiger and the Panther made maintenance and repair a nightmare for the crew, and the Panther specifically had so many problems that I honestly have no earthly idea where its reputation comes from. Extremely weak turret traverse that couldn't turn the turret or keep it straight when moving across rough terrain or up and down any gradient over 20 degrees. The gun's vertical axis stabilizer utilized compressed nitrogen which lost pressure quickly, rendering the stabilizer useless. Contrast this with the gyroscopic/hydraulic system of the Sherman, which rarely ever failed, when the crews bothered with it anyway. Fire control was piss poor, severely limiting the otherwise excellent performance of the KwK 42. That being said, the main gun had one major weakness, in that the recoil mechanism couldn't handle sustained rapid fire. The engine and mechanical systems were unreliable even by German standards, with the transmission being the sole notable exception. The final drive and gear box were particularly poor. Poor quality welds severely compromised what was otherwise fairly solid armor. And the whole damn thing was a rolling fire hazard. A lone Sherman that managed to catch a Panther unawares and put a WP round up its ass could cause the engine to go up like a torch.

Even the Panzer IV, which should have been Germany's main focus in terms of improvement and manufacturing output, was inadequate when compared to its counterparts, the M4 Sherman and the T-34. Late war Panzer IVs outgunned 75mm Shermans, and they pretty much had the T-34 beat in terms of ergonomics and mechanical reliability, but the Sherman and the T-34 both had superior armor, and the Sherman in particular was more advanced in almost every way.

>>32681428
Most of the flaws were fixed in later models of the Panther such as Aus G or A.

>>32676080
>liberate

If only we knew what this liberation would mean to us

>>32681428
>Even the Panzer IV, which should have been Germany's main focus in terms of improvement and manufacturing output

That tank's chassis was out of date by 1941. The only reason it stuck around as long as it did was because it could accommodate a high-velocity 75mm whereas the Panzer III could not. It had shit armor, pretty much no sloping, even after it's front plate was up-armored in the Ausf. G. It was literally the pinnacle of a polished turd, the Germans just kept adding more and more shit to it to try to keep it competitive until the chassis literally could not handle any addition weight and it's speed had been significantly hampered. On top of all that, the difference in cost between it an a Panther was negligible. There was absolutely no reason for the Germans to keep producing that piece of shit.

>>32681428
>and the Sherman in particular was more advanced in almost every way

It goes beyond the design of the tank itself. Manufacturing and quality control were also beyond anything Germany was capable of. They were unable to replicate the large castings of the early Shermans. The ability to do so would have eased manufacturing immensely. Quality control was superb. Every single piece was well made and managed to achieve a balance between effectiveness and ease of maintenance and repairs. This was further helped by the fact that manufacturing was standardized across the board. A part from one Sherman would work in another Sherman from a completely different plant.

And again, the design itself was just better. Even the worst Sherman engines, such as the Chrysler, were better than anything ever put into a Panzer IV in terms of reliability and ease of maintenance, and both the Germans and the Soviets, who made use of captured and Lend Lease Shermans, respectively, have noted its superior power-to-weight ratio, meaning that what power it had, which was significant in all variants, it used more effectively. The transmission was god tier. It was said that any twenty-something of that era who had driven a car before who was put into the driver's seat of a Sherman would have no trouble with it whatsoever. Suspension was smooth and reliable, the tracks were well made (although their high ground pressure proved troublesome until late war), the radio was one of the most advanced fielded by any army throughout the war, and the turret traverse managed to balance speed with reliability. The T-34's traverse was three seconds faster, managing to do a full 360 degree traverse in 12 seconds, but the electric motor powering it was underpowered and overloaded, leading to reliability issues.

I could go on and on, but there's just so much to love about the Sherman design, and the bullshit reputation it's been saddled with all these years irritates me.

>>32678639
Not to mention the delay in Barbarossa. The weather was 3 weeks early and one of the harshest winters in European history. Had Barbarossa started on time the primary objective (the archangel-astrakhan line) would have been achievable, cutting Russia off from lend lease aid and forcing them to retreat to the Urals.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all. They were closer than most people realize.

>>32676524
>gays can't act

>>32681640
thanks, shitaly, truly you are our best ally

>>32681585
That's why I said improvement as well as manufacturing output. The Panzer IV wasn't perfect, but it wasn't an utter piece of shit like the Panther, nor an overweight resource hog like the Tiger. The Panzer IV had the potential to equal the Sherman and the T-34 in terms of armor, firepower, and strategic mobility, and to an extent it already came close. As you said, the problem lay in the major mechanical systems, especially the suspension. Redesigning that alone could've helped solve two of its most prominent deficiencies, namely reliability and armor.

I probably should've been clearer, but when I said improvement, I was thinking of a complete redesign of the suspension and automotive systems. Whether or not Germany was ever capable of that is another matter.

>>32678348
This. I cant stand Wehra-furries, but everything pre-Tiger is just more interesting to me.

You know the tanks the Germans used to actually win campaigns, not lose with

>>32681273
That photo is sort of emblematic of why the Germans simply had no way of winning. If the risk of being destroyed by friendly fire while posing as an enemy is less significant than the risk of being engaged by the enemy itself that's usually a sign that your armoured forces are vastly outnumbered and that your war effort is doomed to collapse

>>32681483
True, but many remained, as the French pointed out in their post-war evaluation of the design.

>>32681334
...That Allied Star looks pretty thick, too. You sure that's an official paintjob, friend?

I dunno... Something seems... Off.

>>32681749
F-Filed modification m-mein freuind.

>>32681428
What a bunch of lies, half-truths and distorted facts.
It's with good reason you don't link to any sources or citations.

>Most had shit suspension and unreliable engines.
Most used single torsion bar or bogie units that were smooth and reliable enough, nothing special but a far cry from shit.
Unlike what the history channel will have you believe the average German tank wasn't a Tiger or Panther.

>Extremely weak turret traverse that couldn't turn the turret or keep it straight when moving across rough terrain or up and down any gradient over 20 degrees.
>The gun's vertical axis stabilizer utilized compressed nitrogen which lost pressure quickly, rendering the stabilizer useless.
Both of those problems have been popularized from that ridiculous post-war french assesment.
Lets put it this way, do you also believe that the Panther could fire at 20 RPM?
Because that's what the documents claimed.

>when the crews bothered with it anyway.
You mean "when the crews were trained how to use/maintain it anyway."

>Fire control was piss poor
Absolutely not.
The Panther, unlike any US tanks, featured gunner's sights with dual magnification (2.5X and 5X) and stadiametric range-finding markings.
This allowed the Panther's gunner to find the target with the 24 degree FOV low magnification setting, before switching to high magnification for range calculation and engagement.
The M4 on the other hand required its gunner to physically move his head from the unmagnified periscope for finding the target to the magnified sight for engagement and unlike German gunner's sights the M4 had no way to estimate range apart from firing and adjusting until you hit the target.
The Panther's lack of a 1X periscope is of course a downside but one that is in part made up for by the commander's superb cupola and the aforementioned dual magnification gunner's sight.

>>32681797
Continued.


>That being said, the main gun had one major weakness, in that the recoil mechanism couldn't handle sustained rapid fire.
That exerpt from the test also said: "A rate of fire of 20 rounds per minute is only permitted in exceptional cases when circumstances so dictate."
Now tell me when anyone has ever fire a tank's gun in a combat situation at 20 RPM?

>The engine and mechanical systems were unreliable even by German standards
That's all true enough.

>Poor quality welds severely compromised what was otherwise fairly solid armor.
Any tank will experience cracked welds if struck enough times, note that the test does not mention how many hits were required for it to happen or whether the armored plates had been damaged previously, or even what kind of hardening they had been treated with.

>A lone Sherman that managed to catch a Panther unawares and put a WP round up its ass could cause the engine to go up like a torch.
Perhaps it would be better to simply put an AP round through the Panthers thinly armored ass instead of trying like an idiot to make the engine catch fire?
Even the 75mm M4's anemic penetration could do the job at normal combat ranges.

>Even the Panzer IV, which should have been Germany's main focus in terms of improvement and manufacturing output, was inadequate when compared to its counterparts
The Panzer IV predated the T-34 and M4 by five or six years.
Just take a look at what other nation's tanks looked like back in 1936.

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>>32681675
>Utter piece of shit
>Panther

KEK

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>>32678655
Hello American friends, isn't it a wonderful day? How about that baseball game? Isn't that Ty Cobb's batting average great?

>it's ameriboos say that german tanks were shit while naziboos say the us tanks were shit all at the same time of not knownig jack shit.

>>32679809
It's a Tiger disguised as a horse and carriage, just like the Japanese disguised elementary schools as troop barracks.

>>32681936
...Hey there buddy. Hey, what's with your gun? It, uhh, looks a little strange, man.

That armor looks a little crumbly, too. Why do you have an MG port in the front, now? You - you need me to climb in and do some repairs, friend?

>>32682260
N-No m-mein frend. W-Wir haben just return f-from die battle, d-das all!

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Reminder the 101st had to be rescued while the 82nd countered and defeated Kampfgruppe Peiper

Nice weather we're having all of a sudden. The clouds are all g

>>32678639

>kursk was the dumbest attack ever and every german general except hitler knew it.


Even Hitler knew it. When Guderian pleaded with him not to green light the operation he admitted he knew that by odds it'd go poorly.

>>32681244
>They had no choice. The entire German labor force was already engaged in the war effort, and it wasn't nearly enough. So they had to use slaves for everything, including building V2 rockets. The only alternative they had to slave labor would be not having those tanks and missiles built at all.
German labor was poorly utilized over WW2. They didn't shift to war time manufacturing till it was far too late, they didn't have the logistical elements necessary to sustain protracted wars, women were never really brought into the work force, and most factories were operating with feudal standards where American and Soviet- since the Soviets literally paid the man who designed Ford's factories- were virtually state of the art for the time.


It didn't help anything that the German armed forces poorly distributed gear as well. Green units got the newest equipment, which often lead to abandoned vehicles and equipment. What's more, the SS was given preferential treatment where they only had 2 or 3 divisions that approached military grade.

>>32678498
Even the German language doesn't have words to describe how cringy that picture is

>>32673354
could you put the Panther turret on the Paner IV??

they probably would have done a lot better by building a shit ton more of these than building Panther and Tigers that had shit reliability and costed 2 or 3 times more than a Panzer IV

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>>32683053
They've done the opposite. They have put panzer ivs turret on Panther's chassis.

>>32681273

I was aware of that, just played along in the meme game that pops up whenever the disguised Panther comes up.

>>32684053
...since when did a jarhead from the pacific do guard duty in the ardennes?...move on.

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>>32673354
just passin' thru

>>32683053
>Panther and Tigers that had shit reliability and costed 2 or 3 times more than a Panzer IV
You actually think you can buy multiple Panzer IV's for the price of one Panther when the Panther only costs ten or so thousand Reichsmarks more than a late-war Panzer IV?

>>32676080
get over yourself, we doomed the world

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>>32679751
Well excuse me for reading more about how the Blitzkrieg in the east had failed more then a last stand in the west.

>>32687470
Panzer IV was a mistake.

>Had same engine than Panzer III.
>No torsion bar suspension.
>Track wheels would fall off.

>>32689473
Panzer III best tank of the war until 5cm KwK 39 wasn't enough.
They should have just made a bigger Panzer III.

>>32678267
No idea how accurate that number is personally but fighter-bombers were more significant for their morale effect and interdiction (i.e. fucking up supplies). Also remember that forcing the enemy to only move at night/in bad weather won't show up as casualties caused but is of major strategic benefit.

>>32683010
You are looking for:
>Krebs
>Schande
>Scheusslich

>>32673354
Wow, this is such a gre

>>32681678
Pz 2 best panzer

>>32679774

I literally saw this movie yesterday. Called "Tali Ihantala 1944". Pretty good!

>>32674142
fearless crew repairs and returns to the fight...Pzgr. 39 through your turret means game over.

>>32676726

I thought stugs were counted as artillary

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>>32678498

fucking hell

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>>32676670
>Battle of The Bulge
>T34s
Do you mean pic related?

>>32673354
*gets destroyed by superior tanks*