What does /k/ think of the Autodefensas? >a vigilante group

I'm presuming that any central leadership they have will be immediately bribed, and the carters will start pinning their hits on other cartels as autodefensa activity.

But yeah, a flawed system of self defense beats no self defense.

>>32661542
it's actually the other way around, central leadership is rock solid but the smaller branches and related groups are very shaky

Trust no one, not even yourself

Why did they try and paint him fucking 16 year olds as a bad thing? What else are 16 year olds for?

They're old news and have more or less fallen apart. They operated pretty hard when they first started up, but now they're all either dead, imprisoned, have stopped activities at the request of the Mexican government, or have been assimilated into the local power structure of the police and cartels. The ones that are still active are pretty much the exact thing they formed to fight.

>>32661573
its more along the lines they killed cartel members who had serious crimes to there name and gave probation and community service to the ones with minor crimes which they'd join after they did their time. low an behold the cartel members that survived would create another cartel with in the group.

>>32661602
>low
It's lo

>>32661552

What?

don't these anti drug vigilante groups always just end up selling drugs themselves?

>>32661866
That's what the Columbian autodefensas did in the 90s.

>>32661866
they need income for their operations.

>>32661811
Umberto and his fun delivery ass, Don Carlo.

They got disarmed and arrested by the (corrupt)Government and because they wanted to show how not corrupt they were they handed over their arms.

>>32661522
The problem with groups like this is they always turn out to be just as bad as the people they claim to be fighting.

Wetbacks killing wetbacks.....that's alright with me!

>>32661522
they will have the same leadership problem mexicos had since emperor Maximilian I, i.e. they tend to get lined up and executed

>>32661522
My friend who lives in Mexico (I don't remember where) says the leaders were working for one of the cartels (I don't remember which) and that they've pretty much dissolved.
>>32661542
Hey, I'm a Carter and I aint never bribed nobody.
>>32662668
This. They also wanted them to become an official state group in order to keep their guns. Most said no.

They did great when it was literally neighbors patrolling their area of the sticks. When the movement started growing and showing its effectiveness it was infiltrated by thugs and agitators wich undermined their legitimacy leading them to be disbanded by the gov.

People say it more or less went back to its roots and they operate more discreetly in their areas with a few guys going legit as Rural Police.

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if i may, i live in the town where all the movement started back in 2013, i know things not told by the media, if you've seen the documentary cartel land you'd know a bit, but that ain't even 20% of all that happened, the cameraman/director couldn't roll with any other militia leader or boss so he stuck with mireles and that guy didn't do shit. ill answer any questions if anyone is interested

pic is proof of location, google the town name felipe carillo puerto or la ruana

>>32665783

Start with a tl; dr of the general situation and events

>>32665792
as of today in the region

the viagra cartel currently controls the city of apatzingan and surrounding towns , meaning they dominate the area of tierra caliente, they rolled into my town last week when the forces of el americano finally retreated, the viagras posed as vigilantes and helped in the movement from the beginning, but secretly they never stopped being knights templar, in interviews they denied it but we all call bullshit. they officially became a cartel last year but separate from the knights templar though still allied. there have been skirmishes viagras/knights and forces of el morisqueto and the town of tepeque in aguililla and buenavista this week, and its rumored that the new generation cartel is planning to roll in with force to clean the state, compared to the generation cartel the viagras/knights are but your neighborhood gang of thugs going against the a major player. have you heard of a man named hipolito mora in the news?

i might mention the viagras allot, but at the moment they dominate the area so all that happens its all them or the rivals, pardon my chaotic writing

>>32665875

How many cartels are there operating now? I assume these groups are strictly local and not big shit like the Sinaloa and Golfo were upon a time.

Which states contain most of this cartel warfare?

>>32661811

>Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain (2015)

>>32665921
the viagras cartel, the knights Templar(remnants) vs the H3 cartel, new generation is unknown if involved for now, and many individuals and towns not affiliated with any cartel but have they're own manpower to fight against los viagras/templars. said individuals and towns are allied with the h3 cartel. many keep too their towns and surrounding areas but when the viagras push they back each other up, the town telpacatepec alone is known to have close to 3000 members believe it or not, well armed but took a recent hit in aguililla days ago due to an ambush and backstab from a thought ally in the town who turned viagra

compared to the powers of sinaloa, golfo, zetas, or jalisco , no, they are local with most of the fighting in the state of michoacan, the only real regional power are the viagras who are spread almost state wide with a constant influx of reinforcements, there are also the knights templars but the vigilante movement took a heavy toll on them,they are now a shadow of their former glory one might say. an example: in the city of los reyes if they find out your a templar and they capture you, those in power will fight each other over who gets to kill/torture you as vengeance,there is no turning you in to the police. they really hate templars.

again, please forgive my writing.

>>32665982

So are you personally ready for the American intervention? Will you sign up to be a translator for American forces or will you stay out of it?

>>32665982
Your writing is fine mexibro. This is interesting stuff.

>>32666002
in my honest personal opinion. i´m an american citizen already, and i'm cool with the intervention. just not to let it come to the point where we end up like lybia or syria, a shithole worse than it is, my loyalty cant lie with either nation, neither america or mexico, my loyalty is to my family, 'ive been protecting them for years and i will still do, if i shall become the inevitable local militia raised by american forces to fight the cartels and any govemnent deserters for them i'm game. couldnt join the army here or in the usa so i might as well be useful to the inevitable occupation any way i can

>>32666006
thank, there is allot the media wont say and will decieve and i've not even started yet

>>32666048

Nah. The US won't let that insane level of instability exist right on its border.

Methinks it will be more of killing lots of cartel members and possibly installing a better government.

>>32661811
>You will never have a Colt 603 with an M203 attached to it
I don't know why I live.

>>32665783
Wtf you have an area named March 18th?

>>32666188
>Nah. The US won't let that insane level of instability exist right on its border.
wut

>>32666188
well that's true but people as a whole are gonna try to resist the occupation, the united states must approach peacefully in that matter as to not light the fuse that is the population, anarchy is only one damn Facebook post away, Mexicans aren't stupid as one might think but we sure as hell believe whatever bullshit is thrown at us. for Christ sake there are people looting and and threatening to burn gas stations over a 4-8 peso gas price hike and they're calling it peaceful protest

>>32666204
yeah, its a small town named after a small bridge situated close by that was named after the date it was completed. we call it "el diesiocho" or the 18th

A joke.

Unorganized and easily defeated by gangs.

>>32666254

Mexico has somewhat of a government. America won't let complete insanity with hundreds of thousands dead like in Syria.

>>32666260

I just want us to go and kill the cartels honestly. I can't stand them. I cannot stand criminals like that.

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>>32666279
>America won't let complete insanity with hundreds of thousands dead like in Syria.

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The old autodefensas threads in /pol/ were fun. Tons of good OC

>>32666279
>>32666291
better for your neighbor to have random skirmishes leaving criminals dead than large scale engagements that displace entire populations at once plus your daily car bomber.

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>>32666301
>Eric Holder

>>32666301
"hipolito mora", let me tell you something you wont ever hear, for the media sucks his attention whore c*ck,

he aint no leader he aint no hero, manipulates everyone and is in cahoots with the viagras, recently 4 of his men were found executed and tortured, he instantly claimed it was the h3 cartel, truth was it was los viagras, he sacrificed them like pigs to win the people and media ´to facilitate viagra control in the area, he always carries a little girl with him in his lap or any kid on him because he thinks rivals wont have him killed when there is a child in his arms

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>>32666002
>>32666048
The only intervention we should do is end NAFTA, the drug war, and secure our border.
>>32666188
The more governments fight extremism, the more they create it.
And there already is that level of insanity.
The biggest thing we can do to fight the cartels is end prohibition in the US, their biggest market.

Also, the Obama administration has a big role in creating the instability in Syria.

>>32666752
The US has never been hard on drugs, like Singapore or even modern Pinoy level.

I'm talking about hanging drug dealers and the like.

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>>32666771
Spending billions on the drug war, imprisoning and killing people for participating and handing the entire drug market to criminals by making all transactions part of the black market is hard on drugs.
We incarcerate more people for non-violent drug offenses than most countries incarcerate all together.
That's why the US has become the vast majority of the Cartel's market.

>>32661522
bet you good money they are being financed by the cartels or from big people to keep little hoodlams in check

>>32666260
>for Christ sake there are people looting and and threatening to burn gas stations over a 4-8 peso gas price hike and they're calling it peaceful protest

So BLM is in Mexico too, huh?

>>32666812
The drug war is a pretense for getting blacks off the streets. That is why crime is at an all-time low.

>>32667226
False and false.
There are no laws that target on group and not another based o race or ethnicity.
And crime is at an all time high in the black community because the inner city governments are getting tougher on drug and gun crime and are getting billions in federal funding to do it.
If there was no federal funding incentive, most states would've legalized weed, if not all drugs, long ago.

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>>32667254
Laws target certain groups because those groups commit crimes disproportionate to the general population. The crime is exploding because of the Ferguson effect. What we need is LAW and ORDER.

>muh weed
Your economic arguments are sound. I'm not even arguing with you. I was just giving you the part of the picture that you're missing.

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>>32667254
Also, you're under the impression that blacks that are caught for non-violent crimes are just like your pothead buddies in college. They're not. Complaining about incarceration rates of non-violent crimes is therefore disingenuous.

>>32666771
Legalize ands subsidize drugs for addicts. It'll be cheaper, way smarter, way better. Dope heads will stop robbing for money when they can get 2 free shots of heroin from the local recovery clinic and provide mental health programs. That's the answer. Legalize all drugs. Subsidize heroin coke/crack and meth.

The killings andcrime would go down by over 90% and the black market would die. It'll be wayyyyy cheaper this way.

>>32666771
>The US has never been hard on drugs
stolen industrial alcohol was the primary source of bootlegged alcohol during prohibition. the US government intentionally poisoned industrial alcohol, and estimates are around 10,000 people died because of it. I'd say that's "being hard on drugs".

>>32667307
I agree.
But your previous statement that they are targeted because of their race is still false.
>>32667340
I don't claim to know the motivation of each criminal.
I do know that violating the rights of those who have not violated the rights of others is immoral and will be used in the future to violate my rights.

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>>32666301
>Eric Holder

>>32667354
>subsidize drugs for addicts
fuck no. not spending my tax dollars to buy dope fiends drugs, just because you think it'd be cheaper.

>The killings andcrime would go down by over 90%
who fucking cares? those killings are mostly contained to the dregs of society, and I'm quite happy about them killing each other.

>>32661522
>a vigilante group which defends Mexico from cartels and their influence
>bunch of moderately equipped farmers
>Mexicans cartels with millions of dollars and military grade munitions and arms

These guys will be dead in a week.

>>32661522
They seem to only have members with mustaches.

>>32661522
DIdnt they end up making drugs themselves?

>>32667465
They did enough of a decent job before the feds closed in on them.
And while cartels might have money and gear, they still lack air superiority meaning any low-level conflict is hell

>>32667465
they are successful at managing the roads via roadblocks and ambushes. it's pretty effective. idk why the cartels just don't get some armored vehicles. I doubt these people would really want to blow up their own roads with IEDs

>>32667465
Did you even follow the news?

>>32667395
>But your previous statement that they are targeted because of their race is still false.
Autism.

>I don't claim to know the motivation of each criminal.
Lol yeaok

>I do know that violating the rights of those who have not violated the rights of others is immoral and will be used in the future to violate my rights.
I understand that you want to ensure your liberty under the law, but please understand that those are your personal values and specific to your culture. The law is written to deal with all the cultures in this country, not just yours.

Liberty is only viable when we presume the people have moral motivations, people like you. That's great. You have a culture bred for high trust and personal responsibility. That doesn't exist in the ghettos. The only thing that works for the aggressive elements of the inner cities is fear of punishment.

>>32667696
>Liberty is only viable when we presume the people have moral motivations, people like you. That's great. You have a culture bred for high trust and personal responsibility. That doesn't exist in the ghettos. The only thing that works for the aggressive elements of the inner cities is fear of punishment.
Exactly.
That's why when you violate someone's rights, you lose your liberty.
My rights end where yours begin.

Owning plants does not infringe on anyone's rights.
When someone breaks into your house, robs your store, rapes your wife, they are violating your rights.
That is what they should be punished for.

>>32667765
>Owning plants does not infringe on anyone's rights.
It's also an easy thing to get away with when you're a hwyte suburban college student. WHOSE rights are really being violated in reality? Do you think those people have genuine respect for your moralizing? Are you familiar with the Prisoners Dilemma?

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>>32667805
I have white suburban college student friends who have served time in jail for possession.
I also have a couple black friends who have never been to college who live in Pig Town in Baltimore who have never faced any legal repercussions.
Please give me the title of the law that only applies to one race and not another.

Until you realize that the Democrats, who have been running the major cities for decades, have been pushing an expanded war on drugs and an expanded role of government, you'll continue to think it's about race.
Because when it's about race, it's not about the deficit.
Because when it's about race, it's not about gun rights.
Because when it's about race, it's not about foreign wars.
Because when it's about race, it's not about inflation.
Because when it's about race, it's not about government transparency.
etc. etc. etc.

There is 0 evidence that one race is treated worse, BECAUSE of their race, by the government.

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>>32667889
Beautiful.

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>>32667889
Anecdotes are not valid. Your black friends are outliers or enculturated to a dominant majority. Your false dichotomy is an effective rhetoric for boomer cuckservatives and autistic lolbertarians.

>There is 0 evidence that one race is treated worse, BECAUSE of their race, by the government.
That's irrelevant to our discussion. I have no idea why you keep bringing that up.

>dems are the real racists
Classical liberalism is INHERENTLY racist. Stop denying it, since there's nothing at all wrong with that. All your rhetoric does is pay lip service to progressives. A system based on merit will produce results that delineate along racial lines, among other things. Again, there is nothing wrong with that.

>WHOSE rights are really being violated in reality? Do you think those people have genuine respect for your moralizing? Are you familiar with the Prisoners Dilemma?

>>32667465
>These guys will be dead in a week
Anon I......

>>32668608
>Classical liberalism is INHERENTLY racist
Wow, please kill yourself.

>>32661552
Amen.

>>32670218
Nice argument. Reality isn't nice sometimes. I guess we should just pretend it doesn't exist for the sake of appearances. We wouldn't want progressives to think ill of us.

>>32672056
That isn't reality, that's some shit your closet racist ass made up.

Keep that shit over with the libertarians, we don't want ya.

>>32673175
>closet racist ass
What? I was calling out libertarians for avoiding the issue...

>made up.
So you think meritocratic systems will show no difference between the races?

>Keep that shit over with the libertarians, we don't want ya.
I don't even.

>>32668608
Your example of "those people" is completely anecdotal.
Your statement is based of correlation equaling causation.
I was simply stating that not only does your statement not prove anything, but the correlation can go the other way.


>"I have no idea why you keep bringing that up."
You brought up race in >>32667805 >>32667696 >>32667340 and >>32667226

>"Classical liberalism is INHERENTLY racist."
No it's not. Race is not a factor in any of the principles of classical liberalism.

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>>32665783
>mireles
>that guy didn't do shit
Seems about right. I remember watching that shitty doc and thinking this guy was busy getting laid and shit. Dude was chasing that pussy.