the 223 is a useless round You aren't in the military

>>32647464
>better for armor penetration
Most plate armor can defeat non AP 7.62 and 5.56 and anything less can't defeat any 5.56 or 7.62.

Game, set, match

>>32647464
I hunt coyote with it, .308 it a little to much for coyotes. Also, If I'm not in the military why should I care about armor penetration?

>>32647464
.300 blk is better then both though

a good bonded 223 will take down a hog reliably

>>32647464

I am in the military, though.

>>32647464
>Not in the military
>Needing to worry about armor penetration or """"long range shots""""

Hmmmm

223 is cheaper but gives you the centerfire rifle experience.

I buy and own what I want faggot.

If I want 5.56 I will buy it. Fuck off.

>>32647464

Its like you dont even participate in shooting sports

>>32647464
>>better for armor penetration
Unless you use M993 not really. Among modern ammo lead core 7.62x51 is weakest round when it comes to armor penetration. M193 at least could defeat steel plates sometimes. Neither calibers could defeat ceramics.

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>>32647464
They are perfect and cost effective for shooting Kangaroos, you fucking faggot

I don't need .308 for what I do and .223 is cheaper

>>32647464
>no """need"""
go fuck your mother

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>>32647480
>not packing AP

>>32647874
This, 5.56 can punch through level III if it come out of a 20" barrel.

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>>3264787
>tldr: speed kills
On my extreme hardened farm steel, M193 makes a complete fool out of 308 and steel cored 54r surplus from my 23.3" barrel. And of course any 545 flavor and 762x39 do nothing to that steel other than stain it.
On softer steel, it punches twice as deep as lead core 545 and ~4x as deep as golden tiger 762x39.

>>32647464
I shoot at paper, .223 is fine, fug off.

>>32647967
.30-06 M2 is usually what the level IV plates are rated to. M993 and M995 on the other hand will defeat them.

>>32647464
As a civilian, if I need long range shots and armor penetration then I'm likely going to need the ability to carry 300 rounds, suppressing fire is also a possibility then, even if it is semi-auto fast as I can pull the trigger.

You guys are idiots. Stop acting like every shot you take during SHTF/WROL is not to be accounted for. Law and order will be restored and it will be awfully difficult to explain why you were shooting at someone 200+ yards away. What is the likelihood that you'll need armor penetration?

These SHTF fantasies need to slow down and be a little bit more realistic. Do you have a proper survival kit? Med kit? Food and water rations/purification? Communications equipment? In a real bug out/bug in WROL/SHTF scenario those are all going to be far more important than whatever gun you are carrying.

Do you even have plans? Are you aware of evacuation routes? Shelters? What about the possible hazard/risks in your community? Fuck off, OP, and kys.

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>>32647967
Fucking Christ. You sure those things even shoot?

>>32647498
>.300 memeout
>2x as expensive
>half the effective range

pass

>>32650434
...only one way to find out

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>>32648306
>>32650434
Where can I get AP boolits for reloading .308?

>>32647627
>nobody ever shoots long range for fun
>nobody hunting has ever had to make a long shot

Okay noguns.

>>32647464
Its useful to punch paper. Consider your self proven wrong.

>>32650434
Probably. Cartridges last a long time.
Worst comes to worst and you can pull the bullets.

>>32647464
I literally just ate 7 tacos made with ground venison. Shot with a .223. so OK buddy.

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>>32647464
the 308 is a useless round

You aren't in the military
>no full retard
>recoil is not as important
>noise doesn't matter
>no need to carry 100 rounds with you

as a result you are better served by a .50 BMG platform
>better for hunting/putting down elephants/armored vehicles
>better for extreme range shots
>better for building penetration
>superior wounding on human targets

prove me wrong.

>>32652402
ammo price and gun price make it impractical for people to use as a primary system as it's impossible to train with without breaking the bank for most people.

your bait is invalid

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>>32652402
>filename
>308
>Clearly a .223/5.56 next to a .50 bmg

>>32647464
Or just use 6.5 Grendel or some other meme round and get the recoil and ammo capacity of an intermediate round with better long-range terminal ballistics than .308.

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6.5 is the GOAT

>>32647464
You never 'put down' any hogs, you lying jackass. .22 is good enough for that. Source: killing 'em on my family's goddam ranch.

>>32647972
>20" barrel meme
show proofs

>>32650571
>.223 is a useless round because I have more fun with .308

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>>32654535
For me at least, that couldn't be closer to the truth.
If I want real fun off of paper, it has to be 762x39 or better.

>better armor penetration

Nigger, a 17 grain .17HMR can get through armor

>>32653965
>>32653973
we're almost definitely going to see a 6.5 or 6.6 for the new single-caliber system... but i'm pretty sure its not gonna be fat-assed grendel

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>>32647464
>the 223 is a useless round

>>32650516
I've looked and it's basically impossible to find anything you could consider AP in bulk. FMJ was the closest I ever found but obviously that's still not AP.

>>32656388
did he died?

>>32656686
nah little neosporin and a hello kitty band aid and he went on his way

>>32656364
>we're almost definitely going to see a 6.5 or 6.6 for the new single-caliber system
Haha, no.

>>32656588
All that makes a bullet AP is the shape and density, right?

Wouldn't it be possible to melt down projectiles and reforge them? Although I feel like this is a topic deserving of its own thread since now I'm thinking about melting down beer cans.

>>32657075
You're not making armor piercing ammunition from beer cans. Speed and hardness makes for armor piercing ammunition.

>>32657094
I didn't think you'd be making AP from beer cans, that was unrelated.

AP rounds however are just really dense and pointed projectiles, afaik. Generally tipped with a much denser material and backed up by a typical material.

>>32657124
Tungsten is a common AP penetrator material and its density is inconsequential. You'll notice most AP bullet very light compared to the standard bullets in service (M995 is 53gr compared to 62gr for M855). The real important factor here is it's hardness. And the faster you push that hard projectile, the better.

>>32657198
Sectional density is a huge factor though, which is dependant on weight. A good penetrator has high sectional density

>>32647464

.223 will kill the fuck out of anybody and anything just as dead .308

>>32656686
He's just sleeping.

>>32650681
>not making a new friend by inviting me over
Smh

>>32657374
Sectional density is great, which is why they use long sub-caliber penetrators made out of tungsten, or even just hardened steel.

>>32647464
OP trying to argue an irrational idea with no logical reasoning.

>>32647464
I love 308 but
>You aren't in the military
>better for armor penetration
just lel

>>32656686
>merely pretending

>>32656364
Bullshit, we are going to field an AR platform rifle chambered in 5.56 until energy weapons become a reality.

>>32654081
Not sure what kind of hogs live in your area, but in southern Georgia I wouldn't trust anything less than a .223 for removing pig, and would prefer a 30 cal.

>>32654338
multiple youtube channels that provide content involving ballistics gel and armor tests

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>>32647464
I honestly don't understand why anybody would reply to this.