>FAMAS >Dassault >Non-NATO-compatible ammunition Is

>Is there a reason why France is such a special snowflake military-wise?
It's harder for the enemy to use their own supplies against them.
In fact, their entire military doctrine is based around the enemy finding abandoned French equipment everywhere.

France is a major world power. They have their own space program, the DGSE operate on pretty much the same level as the CIA and FSB, and they deploy their military to protect their interests abroad just like the US and Russia do, unlike the rest of Europe. They are NATO and EU and all that, but at the end of the day they're not looking out for other countries. They use NATO activities as justification to train and deploy troops to protect French interests. While the Krauts pretty much shepherd the rest of the EU around, France is doing their own thing and only has French interests in mind. They're basically the superpower that Britain likes to think it still is. They're pretty much as independent as Russia, China, or the US, except that they kind of hide behind the curtain of NATO and the EU.

>>32614479
>So what gives? Why do they do everything differently compared to pretty much all of their allies?
The Rafale project started when France decided what they wanted in the Eurofighter wasn't what they wanted. Having the capacity to produce their own figher, they did.

As for the Famas, it was designed when France wasn't in NATO anymore. The G2 version was STANAG compatible, but replacing all the FAMAS rifles was deemed to expensive. To add to that, French small arms manufacturers have disappeared, so the best they could do so far is upgrade the FAMAS to "Valorisé" or "Félin" versions, while waiting for the new rifle (HK416, chosen recently).

The ammo problem is related to the original lever-delayed blowback architecture of the FAMAS. You can change the rifle twist to accomodate a different bullet weight, but you can't change the fact that the rifle tears brass casings.

>>32614602
what they saw in the Eurofighter wasn't what they wanted*

>>32614501
Is this true? Is there somewhere I can read more about this doctrine and why it developed pretty much exclusively to France?

And I can understand it for their small arms (it's entirely possible for an operation to go wrong, a squad to be killed and their weapons to end up in Durka hands, in which case it would be useful if it's hard for them to find functioning bullets) but this makes no sense for their jets. Under what circumstances (that wouldn't outright lose them the war) do they expect an airport and/or aircraft carrier to fall into enemy hands?

>>32614602
So what exactly was the Eurofighter lacking in their opinion?

Sorry for being such a newfag by the way. I rarely ever post here but this topic interests me a bit because of how odd it is at first glance.

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>>32614479
They are not alone.

>>32614622
>So what exactly was the Eurofighter lacking in their opinion?
The problem was politics, and also the fact that the French wanted a carrier-version. Maybe also the fact that it was too AA oriented.

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>>32614602
Does that mean French soldiers can pick up spent casings with a magnet?

>tfw "STOOOOOOOOOP! ENDEX!"
>dat glorious feel
>wait, it's not over yet....
>BRRAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ERRYWHERE

>>32614622
>So what exactly was the Eurofighter lacking in their opinion?
It wasn't made solely in France per their specifications. Just like pretty much every joint French project ever. I'm surprised the 40mm CTA happened desu.

The Famas thing is a complete meme that even Frenchfags propagate now. Long story short is that it was an ammunition issue not a design flaw that was causing case head separation.

>>32614829
>Does that mean French soldiers can pick up spent casings with a magnet?
In the past, yeah, they probably could.
Not that you'd want to reload steel anyways.

you realize France made the Eurofighter, well most of it anyways

>>32614865
We just send brass for melting down

It's fucking shit spending hours picking up brass at the end of a day/long exercise

>>32614852
>The Famas thing is a complete meme that even Frenchfags propagate now. Long story short is that it was an ammunition issue not a design flaw that was causing case head separation.
No, the mechanical constraints of lever delayed blowback are much higher than a gas-system which is much softer in comparison. When switching to modern ammunition with higher pressures, the brass gets stuck in the chamber. Note that the chamber is fluted, but it doesn't always work perfectly, as the brass is deformed under the very high pressures.

Think about it, you're basically using the brass as a piston head.

>>32614937
>brass gets stuck in the chamber.
I mean the brass CAN get stuck

>>32614753
Finns are only different because they bent over to appease the Soviets.

>>32614479
>Non Nato compatible ammo
>implying
First of all, their rifles were made before STAGNAG was a thing and they were too poor to upgrade the rest of their military to the G2 that was suited for the SS109 and STAGNAG magazines (HOWEVER, they managed to rebarreled their F1s with a 1:9 twist rate to accomodate the SS109/M855 round). Secondly, enough with the steel case meme, they literally stopped issuing the F1A and F2 and F2A ammunition after the Frogs started adding port buffers to save the brass from tearing and even then, the ammo can still be interchanged to other users with 5.56 rifles. All ammo from F3, F4 and F5 are all brass cased. Thirdly, yes, a 1:7 twist can still stabilize 55gr ammo (No longer an issue since they don't issue M193 anymore and gad their F1s rebarreled to a 1:9 twist rate as stated earlier), with F4 being locally made copy of SS109 and the current issued SS109 F5 that's imported by Britain.
>Tl:Dr: Read a book and get up to date

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>>32614937
Don't quote me if you plan on spouting technobabble that's beyond your comprehension. Fool.

>>32614602
>ut you can't change the fact that the rifle tears brass casings.
>What is the recoil buffer that reduced the speed of the bolt that was culprited to rip the casings

>>32614593
This.

>>32614753
Finland isn't in NATO. They're in the EU, but not in NATO

>>32615031
What a great comeback. You really showed me.

>>32615010
>Port buffers
Correction: Recoil buffers.

>>32614622
>So what exactly was the Eurofighter lacking in their opinion?


ef just damn recently got some ground attack capability french wanted multi-role from the start

and if you remember at the beginning ef was supposed to be more than air superiority fighter and supposed to have aesa tho till delays happened

>>32614593
>France is a major world power. They have their own space program, the DGSE operate on pretty much the same level as the CIA and FSB, and they deploy their military to protect their interests abroad just like the US and Russia do, unlike the rest of Europe. They are NATO and EU and all that, but at the end of the day they're not looking out for other countries. They use NATO activities as justification to train and deploy troops to protect French interests. While the Krauts pretty much shepherd the rest of the EU around, France is doing their own thing and only has French interests in mind. They're basically the superpower that Britain likes to think it still is. They're pretty much as independent as Russia, China, or the US, except that they kind of hide behind the curtain of NATO and the EU.


Somewhat.

There is an element in French politics that was always very anti-NATO and dreams of bringing back the French empire in Africa.