China's best fighter isn't even Chinese. Really

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>>32597572
None of China's fighters are Chinese.

>>32597603
>its a "the J-10 is a copy of the Lavi" episode
stop this meme

>>32597572
yep, how fuck dumb ruskies are, little pat on their heads and 24 fighters to reverse engineer

>>32597610
Implying the Jooz didn't sell F-16 fly-by-wire technology to the Chinks. Implying the Chinks aren't Asia's merchants. Implying Jooz and Chinks aren't the same annoying, claw-fingered and greedy species hidden under different skins.

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Is there any reason why they shouldn't steal other people's designs instead of spending billions on r&d besides MUH HONOR?
Will you witness a thousand F-35s set afire and say "at least we made the design ourselves"

>>32597572
Bought technology based on merit instead of political stance.

Sounds sensible desu

>>32597788
>Will you witness a thousand F-35s set afire

With those enignes? No.

>>32597788

>Chink garbage ever being competitive

They will never, ever make equipment that isn't just a less capable knockoff of someone else's idea. The chink mind hasn't been capable of doing something new since 1500. All the opium has rotted their DNA.

>>32597892
you should tell your parents that inbreeding is bad. And then tell them to perform a post birth abortion on you.

>>32597572
every fucking week you post this exact shit. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

>>32597862
I bet you don't even know that these are RD33s. You know, KIMOV RD33s.

>>32597967
Yes I know, and what's your point?
Blaming the Russians for using an engine from the 70s?
And even then, the final design is supposed to use the WS-13E with up to 20,000 lbf and a weight of around 1135Kg.
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 8.083

Meanwhile, in comparison, we have:

The EJ200 from the eurofighter, an engine developed in the 80s that weights less than 1000kg and offers 20,250lbf
Thrust-to-weight ratio: > 9

The F119 from the F-22 another engine developed in the 80s. This engine is heavier in comparison, 1,800 kg, but offers more than 35,000 lbf of thrust.
Thrust-to-weight ratio: > 9

Those are 30 years old engines, and they already beat a yet to be revealed chinese engine

>>32598048
You're dumb as fuck. Don't post here again.

>>32598048
And here you have the F135 from the F-35 if you want a modern engine.

1701kg 43000lbf (190KN)
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 11.467:

>>32598051
>Posts data showing the trash that chinese jet engines are

>YOU ARE DUMB

Nice arguments, Zhao.

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>>32598048
J-31 ver 2.0

Look, Ma, No Smoke!

All it takes is to switch from RD-93 to a Chinese WS-13E.

Why cant Russia?

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>>32598639
>WS-13E
>"""5th""" gen fighter

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>>32597572
But China's best fighter is Chinese.

600 J-20 ordered vs 24 Su-35 (with Russia pushing involved, originally, China only wanted 4)

This tells you everything.

The only good thing about the Su-35 is its 117S engine. But there is no need to copy it since the WS-15 is under development anyway.

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>>32598656
More 5th gen than the T-50 at least.

And better than the F-35. But that wasnt hard.

>>32598665
>But there is no need to copy it since the WS-15 is under development anyway.
Is that why they wanted 4 for reverse engineering, or what?

>>32597957
I think he does it to trigger the Chinese on here. And he succeeds weekly.

>>32598639
You do realise the latest RD-93s have long solved that problem?

And Chinese engines are still fucking shit, hence importing the Su-35s.

>>32598665
The J-20 only looks the part. The Chinese are importing the Su-35s to gleam up more useful technologies to jam into the J-20 and other projects.

>2017
>Just figured out the ballpoint pen

Chicoms a fucking shit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38566114

Su-35 was part of some gas deal between Russia and China.

Russia would sell their grandmother for China buying more than 24 Su-35.
But that not gonna happen.

>>32598991
No, the deals were unrelated.

That said, the Chinese only wanted to buy a few Su-35s to rip off the technology, the Russians knew this but wanted to make a quick buck. It's why negotiations dragged out for so long.

>>32598991
>Russia would sell their grandmother for China buying more than 24 Su-35.
Russia understand that China is buying those for reverse engineering and forced Chinese to buy more planes and sight some paper about not selling their copies to other countries or something like that.

Wait, I thought China made a new plane with stealth? Why'd they buy Russian planes?

>>32599086
They run out of engines for new planes with stealth.

>>32598668
>Better than the F-35
>>32598062

>>32599086
Because they don't know how to make engines for the Flanker family, which is still the bulk of the airforce. So Russia says: "you buy the whole fucking plane or you don't get shit"

>>32599404
That's incorrect. See ws10a

>>32599002
>>32599029
>things out of my ass

>>32597572
J-20 is the best and Chinese-made

>>32597892
Americans said the same about Japan and Japanese in 1960.

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>>32598668
>More 5th gen than t50
>can't build your own engines
china truly pathetic country

>>32599609
name 1 good japanese tank/fighter

>>32599086
SU-35 has certain capabilities that are very useful for the PLAAF, and its engines are useful as well.

>>32599609

Russia boos also said the mig-25 was competitive with the F-15

>>32599666
F15 was created to counter mig 25
Ameritards were so scared they developed plane to counter fucking stone age plane

>>32599675
>Ameritards were so scared they developed plane to counter fucking stone age plane

Not exactly, but it seemed that way based on intelligence reports at the time

>apparently low wing loading
>high top speed
>high acceleration

>>32599086

Ready for a true red pill?

The J-20 is not a dogfighter, but does not have the sensor fusion of the F-35.

The sensor fusion is based on publicly released show photos of its "DAS" (actually an IR MAW like the F-22) and "EO" (Is actually an IRST,), lack of Helmet Mounted Display to fuze, more of soft evidence the complete lack of any real evidence of sensor fusion, sensor propagation, meaningful data links, etc.

As for the kinematics, we have seen nothing impressive, absolute zero sustained high AOA maneuvers, extremely few high AOA maneuvers with zero extreme maneuvers, evidence of stall recovery, with current engines less than 1.0 T/W.

Whats the conclusion? Well, its simple. Its a god damn MIG-25. Its a fucking interceptor than can do strike fighter work. Its meant to fly in, unload its payload, and leave. It most likely has good subsonic range, which means its size is all towards tanks, this is evidenced by its extremely low payload for its size (ignoring the heaters, it has the same internal payload of the LRIP F-35, less than the block 4 F-35).

>>32599752

Oh, to add its stealth is completely frontally focused, which again makes sense in a interceptor type airframe.

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>lets put ventral strakes on a stealth aircraft

Maybe redflag exercises since some of its regional neighbors are getting them.
Also maybe useful in false flagging

>>32599781
see
>>32599752
>>32599759

The epiphany hit me like a truck.

EVERYTHING points it to being more like an F-111 than an F-15.

>>32599752
There's videos of it doing high TWR maneuvers from the airshow without afterburner.

Also
>soft """""evidence"""""
No.

>>32597572
Oh yeah, almost none of the People's Republic's hardware is actually Chinese. That which they didn't buy from the Russians they copied from the Soviets.

Which means they either don't know or don't care how shitty their weapons are.

>>32599879
>There's videos of it doing high TWR maneuvers from the airshow without afterburner.

No, there is not. None of those maneuvers broke AOA, nor were they impressive at all from an kinematic sense.

>No.

Oh yes. There is zero real evidence of what i said.

>>32599916
>There is zero real evidence of what i said
Exactly, there's zero real evidence of what you said, i'm glad you see reason and acknowledge your error.

>>32598689
That's why they want 4 to gauge the performance of the 117S against that of the WS-15.

Seriously, "reverse engineering" is fucking hard and you cant do that so easily. China took 30 years to "reverse engineer" the core engine of the CFM-56 civilian turbofan to make it the foundation of the WS-10/WS-20 series of engines. The WS-15 was long under development ever since the late 90s, based on a completely different core engine which was successfully tested in 2012. It's simply too late to integrate 117S technology into that project, now when the core is already finished.

Same with that F-117 meme. China cant have used the stealth coating for the J-20, simply because the J-XX was already in the works long before the shotdown. The F-117's material was anayzed to compare it with the stealth coatings China already had in that era, but to reverse engineer something from scraps is easier said than done.

>>32599623
>No S-ducts
>Russia cant build their own S-ducts
>Russia cant build non-smoking engines

The engine does not smoke, hence it isnt a Russian engine.

In fact, none of China's indigenous engines ever smoke. Only Russian imports do.

>>32600075

Context, buddy. I already stated no evidence for various things in the referenced post.

But, i mean, if you just want to shitpost we can shitpost.

>>32599781
Ventral strakes shield the engine signature from the sides.

>>32599691
Americans consistently overestimated Russian aviation technology, with a couple exceptions.

Pretty funny for them to be thinking that Russia has this evil super plane only to find out that it's entirely made out of fucking stainless steel.

>>32600092
Simgle crystal fan blades. Their problem is materials science, only recently habe the made some SCFBs, they need more foreign equipment to analyze to unlock their final secrets.

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>>32599752
>low payload.

Yeah, about that...

4x 2400 litre external fuel tanks = 9.6 tons of only external payload.

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>>32600135
China has Single Crystal Blades.

In fact, they have already upgraded their earlier Russian AL-31Fs with them to extend their lifetime.

>>32598707
>implying the Chinese Government even lets them access this site
OT: How many are they ordering from Russia?

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>>32600145
Source on 2400 litre: J-31 carries standard PLAAF fuel-pods. Which are 2400 litre and not the standard 1700 litre as used by the NATO.

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>>32600182
F-22: Only two 1700l tanks.

Very low payload. Very low range.

J-20 wins.

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>>32600182
Internal payload of the far smaller J-31: Six BVRAAM.

The J-20 will be able to carry that as well, when they decide to use the small diameter PL-15 and not the big diameter PL-12Cs anymore.

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>>32600182
>>32600145

That would be 7 tons, not 9. AVGAS is .72 kg/l.

>>32600199
F-22 can have 4 tanks friend. Has 2 more hard points total.

>>32600163
I did say recently. Newer WS10 engines are rated dor 1300 hours of operation, a big improvement over the old 400 hour engines. Western ones will do 3000 hours.

>>32600171
24 of them

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>>32600219
>>32600182
F-22 carries 4 2,500 liter drop tanks.

>>32600119
>Americans consistently overestimated Russian aviation technology, with a couple exceptions.
I'm fairly sure this was at least partially on purpose to allow more money for better planes and missiles.

>>32600199
See
>>32600255

J-20: Very low payload, very low range.

BTFO

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>>32600236
>>32600255
>>32600281

Ok, nice. The F-22 still carries less internal fuel than the J-20.

J-20 unrefueled range with internal fuel only: All capitals of Asia.

F-22 cant compare.

>>32600219

PL-15 don't exist yet, friend.

Furthermore, there are only 2 hard points for pylons in the bay.

>>32599810

Oh I know

It seems pretty odd that a vlo fighter would have strakes like that unless its meant for a sam killer role and pretty much nothing else

I wonder if the strakes are necessary because of blanking the vertical stabilizers at high alpha - a problem that a canard like that would have.

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>>32600300
>PL-15 don't exist yet, friend.

It does. The USAF General confirmed it, friend. And numerous pictures as well.
>Furthermore, there are only 2 hard points for pylons in the bay.

Irrelevant. Hardpoints can be added and removed in the internal bay.

The F-22 at the beginning also had only 2 hardpoints per bay, when it still used the AIM-120B. Only when the AIM-120C came, they added another hardpoint per bay.

>>32600296
>The F-22 still carries less internal fuel than the J-20.

Actually, with drop tanks it does not, even though its smaller. Total fuel is 23,000 liters.

Its range, with TWO (not four) drop tanks is 2,960 km, witch is longer than your pic.

>>32600269
>I'm fairly sure this was at least partially on purpose to allow more money for better planes and missiles.

It had more to do with milling titanium and high temp aluminum alloys. Soviets didnt have the same expertise in that field that the US did.

>>32600332
Nope. That's the ferry range.
Combat radius for the F-22 is:

>Combat radius: 460 nmi (with 100 nmi in supercruise clean)[269][N 6] (529 mi, 852 km)


And my pic showed the combat radius of the J-20. The ferry range is that pic multiplied by 2.

>>32600332
>internal fuel
>drop tanks

wew lad

>>32600329
Confirmed its development. There are pictures of CUDA and other new missiles for the USAF, does not mean they exist. That picture is pure cancer btw.

>Hardpoints can be added and removed in the internal bay.

Not with a redesign, as it only has 2 physical hookups.

>The F-22 at the beginning also had only 2 hardpoints per bay, when it still used the AIM-120B.

No.

>>32600296
>supercruise and engine efficiency doesnt matter

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>>32600366
Correction: Real, non-propaganda F-22 can only carry two missiles.

Pic related.

Only two hardpoints and no visible hook up points.

>>32600347
>Nope. That's the ferry range.

Nope, thats range. Ferry range is 3,220 km.

>The ferry range is that pic multiplied by 2.

Absolutely not.


>Combat radius: 460 nmi (with 100 nmi in supercruise clean)[269][N 6] (529 mi, 852 km)

Thats clean.

The full combat radius is..

>Combat radius details: 590 nmi subsonic clean, 850 nmi subsonic with 2× 600 US gal tanks, 750 nmi (with 100 nmi in supercruise) with 2× 600 US gal tanks. Figures include -6% routing factor, combat and 2× GBU-32 + 2× AIM-9 + 2× AIM-120.

750 nmi is 1389 km, which is longer than the J-20.

>>32600351
He said no refuels, not internal only.

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This kills all US AWACS and Tankers

>>32600408
Wow, you can have a longer combat radius by ruining your stealth with external fueltanks! Didnt know that.
Man, you sure showed the Chinese.

Not.

>>32600401
>>32600401
>mfw 3 visible pylon hookups, 2 points installed.

That pic was taken in 2008 at an airshow btw, thats in its strike config. The bomb is carried in the middle.

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>>32600401
>Only two hardpoints and no visible hook up points.

lol this nigga

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>>32600366
> There are pictures of CUDA and other new missiles for the USAF, does not mean they exist.

There is literally no picture of the CUDA inside a flying and operational USAF plane.

But there are quite a few PL-15 pics showing it onboard of PLAAF birds.

>>32600441
Comparing apples to apples. J-20 with tanks to F-22 with tanks.

>>32600448
I know right? You can see, in his pic, 2 amraam and 2 GBU hookups. What a cuck. In your 3 and 1.

>>32600329
>Only when the AIM-120C came, they added another hardpoint per bay.

>AIM-120C deliveries began in 1996
>F-22 First flight: 7 September 1997

Really made my neurons fire.

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>>32600448
Where is the hookup point beneath the hardpoint?
It is not visible. And just because it isnt visible, doesnt mean that hardpoints cant be added.

Pic related is how the J-20 works. You actually can see the hookup points for the missile ejectors there, unlike the F-22.

>>32600459
Thats a PL-12, first of all.

For your next trick you will show a PL-whatever that fuckhuge joke of a missile is, and claim THAT is the 15.

>>32600489

Are you saying they plan on ripping out the center wall?

WEW LADDY.

There are only 2 hardpoints, as pointed out by the picture, for the pylons.

>It is not visible.

It is viable, its a bomb rack, if you dont want to call it a pylon. You are blind.

ITT: chicom memes about the J-20 comes tumbleing down.

Less fuel, less payload, less range, less hardpoints, less manuverable than the two decade old F-22.

All for a plane that is still not in OIC.

I think i need to order a suicide watch.

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>>32600401
Bro, thats the JDAM, AMRAAM config you can see it clearly in this picture.

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>>32600491
There are exactly two next gen AAMs confirmed: PL-15 (PL-12 sized missile with reduced wing and dual-pulse motor giving it 200+km range) and the PL-XX which is an airborne ballistic anti air missile with 300+km range, shown here:
>>32600424


The thing is, the future is on my side and not yours. Consistently burgerclaps have claimed that something didnt exist in China's arsenal, only to be BTFO when they actually appeared. Do you still want to bet?
I made one guy eat his hat who claimed that the J-20 didnt exist and those first photos were fake when they appeared.
If I win the PL-15 bet, I demand that you fuck your mother and upload it on liveleak.

>>32600538
>dual-pulse motor giving it 200+km range

That's not why it has an increased range.

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>>32600517
samefagging wont help you, amerifriend.

Go and tow back your overpriced garbage to port.

>>32600489
>I have no idea how a configurable bay works
>I think something structurally vital can simply be ripped out with no ill consequence

lel

>>32600538

>Y...YEAH THEY ARE IN DEVELOPMENT!

Thats my entire point, thank you.

>blah blah blah muh E-PEEN!

Yeah, there are still people who think the F-35 is getting cancelled and never see service. You dont see my claiming i BTFO random anons on an Jamacian black hole research forum.

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>>32600489
Here you have a better picture of the weapons bay of your country's flying piece of shit, now, could you kindly tell me how are you going to fit a third missile there?

>>32600571
I know right? Damage control at its finest!

>Y...yeah we have less h...hard points b...but if we rip out shit we can g..get m...more....r..right guys???

>>32600549
Nope, just saw a chicom get fucking destoryed over the fuel issue, then scrolled up and saw some anons post about the J-20 logically being a damn attack plane.

This shit is great.

>>32600597
DUDE JUST RIP SHIT OUT LOL

>>32600617
LOL, SO TRUE LETS LIKE RIP THE LANDING GEAR OUT AND PUT SOME BOMBS N SHIT RIGHT THERE, I MEAN SUPERIOR CHINESE PLANES HAVE INFINITE RANGE SO THEY DON'T NEED TO LAND LOL

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>>32600597

yankee magic, aka designing the bay to handle 3 hard points

>>32600646

DUDE, SUPERIOR CHINESE PLANES ARE BOMBS. THATS ONE MORE BOMB PER PLANE!

AMERICA IS DEAD, BTFO FOREVER AND EVER!

Itt: chicom shill damage control

>>32600670
The problem is the lack of space, not the design of the hardpoints. It barely fits 2 missiles, putting another one is going to be hard

>>32600677

The worst part is, they did it to themselves.

They are as antagonistic and wrong online as they are IRL.

Posts like >>32600199 shows this.

Not only was he wrong about everything, he brings in a win/lose qualifier to it.

They literally shill for America when they do this. If it was any worse i would think it was a blatant falseflag, instead of pure incompetence.

>>32600743
>It barely fits 2 missiles, putting another one is going to be hard

It was designed to fit 3

Not hard to do when you properly design shit and dont need to resort to fixes like ventral strakes lel

>>32597572
China wants to reverse-engineer the engine design so they can build their own fleet. Thats the main reason for those jets. Russia has been fearing competition from China due to this. If China gets hands on jet engine technology, they will cut out Russia completely in the 2nd/3rd world market completely due to cheaper costs.

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>>32600842

semi-relavent to this is the FC-31

FC is a designation for export models, not PLAAF aircraft, which has said they aren't interested in the FC-31.

It seems like this might be intended to compete with the PAK FA on the export market.

>>32600785
>antagonistic and wrong online as they are IRL.
This. They're catty and get pissy faster than a gay hairdresser. I can't believe I'm related to them.

At least Hong Kongers give proper change, Shenzen was full of virtual gypsies.

>>32598051
the last original idea the yellow horde had was gunpowder and they didnt even know how to use it right.

>>32600949
>At least Hong Kongers give proper change

Thats because they escaped communism.

>>32600974
It's still pretty bad over there by the way. Hing Kongers are chafing at the People's Republic.

China already reverse engineered the Su-27 airframe with their J-11. All they care about the Su-35 is the new engine, which they will copy. China is basically 100% self sufficient now thanks to Russian idiocy. Would be funny if China exports Russian copies in the future and take Russian market share. Actually, they already export Su-300s clone.

>>32599086
Because every force needs a grunt unit.

Those stealth planes are for the elite pilots. Like a hero unit.

Just like the F-16 was a grunt for the F-15.

Or the F-35 is the grunt for the F-22.

>>32603024
>t. Retard

>>32603024
>Chinks actually believe this
wew

>>32599781
>lets put ventral strakes on a stealth aircraft

by that logic, YF-23 should have been chosen

>>32603265
Go ahead and do me a favor and circle the ventral strakes on the f-22

>>32600463
Chicom shill BTFO for all eternity

>>32597603
Wrong plane. J10 is not Lavi but MiG LFI.

>>32603024
>F16 is a grunt for the F15
yeah, because being superior in every way but range is so gruntlike.

>>32603364
>Go ahead and do me a favor and circle the lateral strakes on the YF-23

>>32605162
>doesnt understand what a ventral strake is

>>32605338
>doesn't understand what an analogy is

>>32603143
High Lo doesnt exist, TIL

>>32597572
>Really makes you think.
no it doesn't. fucking slopes cant innovate, they can only copy. poorly.

>>32600083
>Seriously, "reverse engineering" is fucking hard and you cant do that so easily.
still easier than coming up with your own shit...

copying something is fucking simple compared to coming up with your own shit from a blank sheet of paper.

>>32605902
Yeah no shit but you don't just start creating from a blank piece of paper.

>>32599636

How about how their car industry is top quality? Not only top quality but affordable.

>>32603110
>>32603143
>>32603495
While retard that does explain the high-low strategy of the US military. While the only applied for the early F-15/F-16 models and the F-14/F-18 models it was a US policy at one point. Now the US multiroles everything.

>>32606748
the first fully FBW system in the world sure is low

>>32608485

Right, and the F-35 has the F-22 beaten in several areas of technology, but the F-22 is undisputedly the high and the F-35 the low.

Big, twin-engine air superiority fighters will perform better than an equivalent smaller single engine fighter in several key ways (speed, range, payload, radar size). The F-16 is great, but there are just some areas it can't compete with the F-15, while the F-15 can't compete on procurement & operating cost.

>>32605854
>Hero units
>Grunts
Wew lads, live is a videogame confirmed!!!!1!!!!
What lvl are you? Im a lvl 838 chinese paladin xDDDD

Fuck off

>>32609042

>Whats a planes role?

B-2 is a shit plane, its unable to destroy planes
The Strike Eagle? Its a grunt version of the Eagle xDDD thats the real role of attack planes, being a fucking shit

t. Chink

>>32599086
They only look the part, Chinese planes are shit on the inside.

>>32597610
>>32603457
Fuck off JIDF