I play a custom RPG system with some friends and they asked me

>>32579335
Look into the d20 modern outlook on firearms. Also the Sidewinder western supplement. Both are really helpful guidelines to look at.

Also fuck off back to the games board.

>>32579335
Allow for a bayonet to be fixed on the rifles, and for the pistols to be flipped around and used as a club (both of these were done frequently with muzzleloading weapons)

>>32579335
High damage low DPS

>>32579335

That's because firearms don't do that much damage in comparison to melee weapons. What you'd need to do is introduce piercing mechanics to have multipliers for bullets.

Hmm, well let's say for arguments sake that the highest level you want to go is Bolt Action

I'll give you some generic details that might fit what you need

>Bolt Action Rifles
High powered
Long Range
Heavy
Requires two hands to operate
For the sake of not being over powered, let's say they require the hand loading of individual rounds, for you that might mean they need to skip a turn every 5 rounds(the general capacity of most bolt actions) or maybe they can fire only one round per turn, up to you I suppose

>Revolvers
Short Range
Not as high powered as a rifle, but carry 6 shots generally
Maybe your character can carry two, but for overpoweredness sake, they're single action, one round per turn, or two if you count that cocking a revolver is quicker than cycling a rifle bolt

>Gatling Gun
Crank operated, you basically spin a lever and the barrels rotate, each time a barrel lines up with a chamber, it fires a round, you could limit it to 5 round bursts per turn?
Maybe they need a turn to set up
Not very accurate due to constant movement of the whole system during firing, so maybe give it shorter range?

That's just off the top of my head

Well, there are single shot pistols and rifles that use modern ammo - which is drastically faster than muzzle loaders.
>you don't have to load a primer, then powder, and then a bullet

Then you have higher capacity pistols/rifles that are semi-automatic
>the introduction of magazines and belt-fed guns allowed for quicker reloading and firing

Then you have fully-automatic weapons
>i.e. pull the trigger once and the gun continuously fires until the mag or belt is depleted

File: 1458943005958.png (159KB, 289x289px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 289x289px

>>32579349
I'll do, thank you so much.

>>32579353
Would that really be a good idea? Isn't a gun structure a very fragile thing?

>>32579396
Are you sure? I thought rifles could shatter plate armor easily

>>32579416
This is exactly what I wanted, thank you so much for your kindness.

>>32579447
it shoots bullets, it's not very delicate...

>>32579335
What system? How advanced do you want to make the guns?

>>32579447
It's a metal tube with a contained explosion on one end. Kids have built semi automatics from scratch before. I'll let you do the math on how delicate they are.

>>32579463
I mean, more delicate than a solid piece of magic steel. Because there are a lot "parts", if any of them is weaker, when the gun receives shock that's were it'll break.

>>32579469
It's a mix of systems.
Advanced enough to deal with katanafags that can deal 20 cuts all around him in 1/4 of a turn (about 5s) or a big sword guy that can behead a man and his horse both wearing heavy armor in one downward swing.

>>32579494
Just make the guns to be almost like one shot one kill, but it takes some rounds for them to be ready to fire again. Used in hand to hand combat the rifle does as much damage as a large club or spear (if equipped with bayonet). The handgun would do as much damage as a light club in h2h combat. For this reason, the shooter would be better off carrying one or two pistols plus a sword or saber.

File: Colt_saa6.jpg (20KB, 640x382px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 640x382px

>>32579494
Ah. You want the Colt Single Action Army "Peacemaker".
Six shots, more than enough to kill anything that moves.
Speed reloads with moon clips optional.

Looks At Warhammer 40k Dark Heresy System,it kinda works balances the guns

File: melee.webm (3MB, 600x336px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 600x336px

>>32579523
Wouldn't that make them ridiculous overpowered? One shot one kill feels a bit too much, it would basically mean that a single gun can do over 200 damage.

File: bradley vs tank.webm (3MB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 960x540px

>>32579597
I will, thank you.

prepare for a lot of shots in the right leg

>>32579537
>Speed reloads with moon clips optional
SAAs do not work that way

>>32579603
Get rid of your hitpoints system or at the very least reduce HP down to something reasonable. Nothing human-sized should be able to stand up to getting whaled on by poleaxes either.

>>32579349
Fuck off. /tg/ has long been kind to us.

>>32579603
I said almost. You didn't give any info about your system, therefore I can only be very vague.

>>32579494
Traditionally, muzzle loaders are designed to be used as hand to hand weapons when lines converge. At that point, the musket becomes a club and spear and they are built to take that abuse.

>>32579846
I know, that's because my objective was not system related, just organizing information, like >>32579416 did.

> I'm not looking for numbers and specific system details (otherwise I would've posted this on /tg/), I'm looking for generic categories of firearms and their main attributes when compared to other guns (highs and lows).

For example:

-pistol
good points
bad points

-assault rifle
good points
bad points

-machine gun
good points
bad points

-sniper rifle
good points
bad points

and so son.

What about glidder mounted ants ?

>>32579909
Pistol: Small, light, easy to carry around, but not very powerful and typically hard to hit anything with beyond 50m.
Assault rifle: Good at everything inside of 300m, they're the primary infantry weapon for a reason
MG: Heavy as fuck and the ammo is even heavier. Some models use belted ammunition (like the M1919) while others can use the same magazines as rifles (like the RPK). Good for suppressing fire to keep multiple enemies pinned down so your riflemen can go get them.
Sniper rifle: Not sure what you mean here since it's not a real category, but I'm guessing some full-power rifle with a scope. You can hit things at potentially over a km away if you're using the right rifle and ammunition. In exchange you get low ammo capacity, ammo is more expensive, and if it's a bolt-action your follow-up shots will be slower. Despite what videogames might tell you, they're perfectly useable at close range.

>>32580028
What's the difference between a rifle with a scope (what I called a sniper rifle) and an assault rifle? What's stopping people of putting a scope on an assault rifle?

>>32580071 Also I'm trying to search what's the difference between a revolver and a pistol and which is better but I'm getting contradicting answers.

>>32580071
>What's the difference between a rifle with a scope (what I called a sniper rifle) and an assault rifle? What's stopping people of putting a scope on an assault rifle?
Full-powered rifles have more powerful ammunition that retains killing power at long range, whereas an assault rifle has smaller rounds that you can carry a lot of but they tend to lose effectiveness further away due to atmospheric drag and bullet drop.
Magnified scopes are actually pretty common on assault rifles (eg. ACOG) but they usually have a wider field of view and lower magnification than ones you'd find on a hunting rifle or a DMR.

File: wep stats.png (382KB, 538x503px) Image search: [Google]

382KB, 538x503px

Use Dis

>>32580071
Assault rifles are generally in intermediate calibers, like 5.56. They can use optics as well, should the situation call for it.
'Sniper rifle' is a vague term, but common usage is a full power rifle with optics. So chambered in the larger and more powerful .308, which does better at range. They generally make use of more powerful optics because the rifle and round are capable of more precision, and they won't be laying down a large volume of fire like the assault rifle. They're doing different jobs and use different optics and rifles for them.

>>32580081
The easy answer is that revolvers have a lower capacity (usually 6 rounds, but can be between 5 and 8) and they can handle larger, harder-hitting magnum ammunition - some of the really heavy stuff like .454 Casull, .460 and .500 S&W even approaches the power of a rifle round. Many other revolvers use weaker ammo on par with semiauto pistols and are popular because of aesthetics and ease of operation.

>>32580081
A revolver is limited by the size of it's cylinder, but the bigger ones can handle more powerful rounds. They will also fire when pressed against something, because there is no slide to move out of battery.
Beyond that modern automatic pistols have outclassed revolvers due to magazine size and how quick they are to reload.

File: maxresdefault (3).jpg (214KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 1280x720px

>>32580071
Sniper rifles are designed for one extremely well placed shot at long range with a large, full sized bullet.

Assault rifles use intermediate sized cartridges and are designed for rapid follow up shots from point blank range to 500 meters. They are handier but less precise and designed to put multiple rounds on target.

As for scopes? Optics have been standard on Assault rifles for over a decade now.

>>32580097
Also, an important note is that military assault rifles will be able to fire in full-auto, while a precision rifle will not (and would be a bit of a waste to add that capability in).

One category that you didn't mention but is somewhat relevant is the Battle Rifle - it's similar to an assault rifle but fires .308 ammo giving it longer range and better ability to shoot through barriers. Many will have full-auto selectors on them but these never proved very useful in combat because the recoil tends to make you waste most of your shots.

>>32579335
firelances (bamboo tubes on a spear that fires flame & shrapnel over short distance), multi-barrel handgonnes & arquebues. clay/metal grenades?

Those types of guns should be able to do alot of damage compared to swords. The large non jacketed lead rounds can expand and fragment severely plus they can cause bone fragmentation making it even worse. Also, old guns could pierce all but the thickest plate armor. It could be because of the armor mechanics you use, humans should be pretty weak to most weapons without armor but a lot of games focus more on giving lots of HP and have armor just reduce damage or hit chance. You should also allow ranged characters to stay at range and not make it easy for an opponent to close.

File: 1457325638786.png (245KB, 500x476px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 500x476px

>>32579831
truth, no hate here

only love

and guns

You could also make it so that targets don't get defense bonuses against guns because bullets are too fast and too small to block or dodge without supernatural powers.

>>32579335

With guns, the best way to introduce them is to give them a shitload of armor pen. (based on the class of gun and caliber of the round being used,) and introduce critical multipliers and status effects for hitting certain parts of the body. If a person is hit in the weapon or arm, they drop their weapon. If they are hit in the stomach, they suffer bleed damage. If they are hit in the head, they are stunned, whereas if they are hit in the throat, they are silenced and begin asphyxiating, etc...

A called, critical shot to the head would be a permissible scenario to give someone instant kill powers, IMO. Obviously, a gun is disadvantaged in some ways because you have to reload every turn if the player is using a musket or rifle of any kind, or every 6 shots if they are using a revolver. You could build a balanced system around reload capacity and effective range, with more modern guns generally having larger magazines, lighter carry weight, and higher power in each round. Your player could invent something similar to a Glock and only need to reload every 30 shots, and pick up multiple skills that allow you to discharge many shots at once.

Obviously, a gun is not going to cut someone in half like a flaming sword would, but it could be even better in some cases where range is optimal, such as if you are fighting a Hydra.

>>32580097
>>32580103
>>32580124
>>32580147
>>32580183
Thank you. This is all very useful information, I could just read some generic information on wikipedia or copy some game gun system, but I wanted to make something more correct, considering I spent a lot of time on melee weapons.

>>32580320
The problem is the characters players are not human, and the monsters they fight are not human either. If a bullet hits a player arm, he can just rip the bullet off and then heal the wound immediately, if the player is a mage, he can just make one of the maggots in his body eat the bullet and then heal the damage. When fighting monsters the situation gets worse because they got massive twisted bodies.

Maybe I'm underestimating how much damage bullets can cause, but there's also the fact that they can't be as powerful as real life, or people will have no reason to use anything but guns. I guess. That's my opinion. Thanks for the input anyway, this is all very helpful.

>>32581180
If you are dealing with superhuman characters you may have negated the effectiveness of archaic firearms. If you are going to stick with slow firing weapons they will need to have some type of special ability to make up for it. To stick with realism you could have the wounds be more time consuming to heal because of the fragmentation inside the body. To forego realism maybe go with enchanted bullets of some kind and treat them like a high powered caster that is limited by time.

>>32581517
I did, and that's why I'm trying to move to more modern ones.

Also this is what I have for now

pistol (1h)
20 piercing dmg
-10 shots per charge
-1 turn to recharge
• ArmBreak: 25%+ dmg against Armor
range: 50m
weight: 1
cheap ammo

Revolver (1h)
40 piercing dmg
-6 shots per charge
-2 turns to recharge
• ArmBreak: 25%+ dmg against Armor
range: 50m
weight: 1
cheap ammo

Shotgun (2h)
50 striking dmg
-1 shot per charge
-1 turn to recharge
• ArmBreak-2: 50%+ dmg against Armor
• Reap: +10% injury damage
range: 20m
weight: 5
medium ammo

Assault Rifle (2h)
40 piercing dmg
-20 shots per charge
-2 turns to recharge
-autofire
• ArmBreak: 25%+ dmg against Armor
range: 200m
weight: 5
medium ammo

Machine Gun (2h)
60 piercing dmg
-20 shots per charge
-2 turns to recharge
• ArmBreak-2: 50%+ dmg against Armor
range: 120m
weight: 20
expensive ammo

Power Rifle (2h)
100 piercing dmg
-1 shot per charge
-1 turn to recharge
• ArmBreak-3: 75%+ dmg against Armor
range: 1000m
weight: 10
expensive ammo

>>32581180
>Maybe I'm underestimating how much damage bullets can cause, but there's also the fact that they can't be as powerful as real life, or people will have no reason to use anything but guns.
Melee weapons are pretty goddamn devastating to get hit by too, if they get through any protection the target's wearing. The issue isn't that guns themselves are super-powerful, it's that pretty much all decent weapons are potential one-hit-kills whether they're a rifle, broadsword, mace, etcetera.

>>32582522
I was thinking now, it doesn't make sense for a bullet to do a ton of damage, what it actually does it just pretty much ignore armor, but a bullet is a bullet. Against something superhuman, there isn't much difference.

File: 1482505165729.webm (3MB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 800x450px

>>32583305

File: ss+(2017-01-09+at+12.29.43).jpg (245KB, 1857x669px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 1857x669px

Question

If a sniper rifle isn't a thing, what is this on picture?

Isn't a sniper rifle basically a rifle used for long range sniping? How is that not right?

>>32583429
Also what's the difference between Assault Rifle and Tactical Rifle?

>>32579494
This sounds fucking retarded on the face of it. Look at a sword. Now look at a set of plate. Unless the swordsman is throwing around that steel at supersonic speeds, he's not coming anywhere close to going through the armor. If he clashes with it repeatedly, he's probably just dulling his edge. Even standard mail is incredibly hard to the point that it is nigh impossible to punch through with a sword. Still hurts like hell even with the padding to get hit, but a thrust or cut usually isn't lethal against mail and certainly not against plate. In the high middle ages and Renaissance, sword fighting became as much about grappling and probing for weaknesses in armor.

I have to ask: what time period is this in exactly? Pike and shot formations lasted for quite a while, but by the time the rifled musket rolled around, the pike was pretty much gone and armor no longer served much use. Remember that we're also talking about warfare, so these are inherently weapons meant for the battlefield, meant to be deployed with units in mind. Swords are fantastic for self-defense, for cavalry after they've shot carbine volleys, and for closing in real close. But most of the time on the battlefield - and that's what matters - the sword is going to sit on your hip for the length of the battle while the musket, pistol, and pike do the work. Armor was still relevant, but it was generally only worn on the battlefield, and plate was reserved for men of means since it was particularly expensive. (If we're talking late 15th-17th century.)

Most RPG systems are meant for small unit skirmish type battles. Squad size elements tops. If we're talking the same period, I could see swords having more use in that setting. That said, all of your polearms and firearms still outrange swords and daggers, and punch through armor better to boot. Armor wouldn't be an issue most of the time when one is merely on a walk through town unless one is a guard or one is expecting a fight.

>>32583429
Assault rifles are generally select fire and intermediate cartridge, generally performing well at a max of a kilometer (though ideally out to 300m).

Sniper rifles are generally .30 caliber+ that are purpose-built for LONG range, and usually are

1- More expensive (long range optics, fancy cheek rests, trigger jobs, etc)
2- Heftier, both in weight and physical size. this can make them less than ideal for mobility
3- have smaller magazines (or internal mags) due to the larger rounds
4- Are often manual action (to squeeze every fps out of the round and to minimize the effect of the guns action on any ballistics).

While "sniper" is kind of antiquated by modern war standards (after all, if you are in Iraq or Afg, if you cant hit it with an M4 you can either try it with an M2 or just blow it with mortars/arty), Designated Marksmen is not.

>>32585018
I should mention that one of the reasons the pike went was the plug bayonet. The plug bayonet was one of the first good means of putting a blade on a musket. It had the downside of stopping the barrel, but it worked very well and now each musketeer basically held a pike. With ring bayonets a short while later, bayonets could be fixed without stopping the barrel (though they usually cause some point of shift impact or other drop in accuracy, barrel harmonics and what).

>>32583429
A "sniper rifle" is basically any rifle that can be adequately used for a sniper's purpose. At this point, a bunch of [Western] militaries have started using really expensive accurized, scoped rifles for this purpose, but in the past it was common for what are essentially now DMR rifles to be put to the same purpose. The Russians use the SVD and a 3.5x optic or something like that and it's not up to snuff for what Accuracy International or MacMillan put out, but it's good enough for Russian doctrine. 100 years ago, the standard for the US was to send the rifles which ended up closest to spec to be fitted for the sniper programs for the Army and Marine Corps.

>>32579447

They don't shatter plate, they just pierce right through, losing kinetic energy of course. Plate isn't brittle.

>>32583429
So basically, you're on the most autistic board on the Chan so I'll enlighten you kindly.

"Sniper" is a role that a soldier plays in combat. His rifle is a "Sniper" rifle because it is used by that soldier, whose job title is sniper. The rifle may be built for the job of precise fire at long range but it's just a rifle until a sniper takes it and uses it.

Think of it like this. Say carpenters used a specific style of knife because it was useful to them in a lot of ways. After awhile, that style of knife becomes called a carpenters knife even though it may not be made explicitly for carpenters and the manufacturer calls it something completely different.

As for tactical rifle vs assault rifle, you're just running into gun nomenclature that isn't easy to explain to a novice. "Assault" is a verb and the term is generally attributed to the STG 44 whose name, sturmgewehr translates to "Storm Rifle." Storm, in this sense, being a synonym for assault hence assault rifle. It has come to be the term for a rifle in intermediate caliber capable of automatic fire with a detachable magazine. "Tactical" is an adjective used to describe the style of a rifle. I don't know if I made things more clear but hopefully I was somewhat helpful.

>>32585018
It's a fantasy universe, it's not any specific time period. Currently firearms are becoming popular so all humans are picking them up instead of melee weapons, while heroes and players stick with their orichalum swords of magic bullshit that can cut clean a tank in half.

My plan is firearms will get even more advanced so troops can actually become dangerous instead of being just mobs to the players to cut down until a hero shows up and kick their asses with his excalibur of holy light +10

>>32585123
>>32585091
>>32585221
I see, that's very helpful

>>32585221
I enjoy a lot reading posts like these, actually.

>>32579603
>Wouldn't that make them ridiculous overpowered?
But they are overpowered. After maturing of the guns war and fighting became guns spam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygaSMeTh-f0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Umh-pa7FA

>>32581621
Shotguns are worse at piercing armor than rifles and in some instances, handguns.

As far as armor penetration goes it should be

Sniper/Power Rifle > Assault Rifle = Machine gun > Handgun > Shotgun

You could balance the shotgun by making it have very poor armor penetration and range but very good damage against unarmored/soft targets

>>32583429
/k/ is autistic and gets triggered when you refer to any rifle that's legal for a civilian to own (which includes any and all military sniper rifles) as a sniper rifle because they're scared that they'll be banned by overzealous politicians.

>>32585345
Well, when you have a bunch of turtles in mail and plate running around the battlefield and you can just point your boomstick formation at them and they all keel over, it's pretty fucking powerful. I guess guys tired of the oneupmanship of armor. With flintlocks as good as they were, it's easy to see why. Artillery and small arms both were advanced enough to the point where armor didn't do a god damn thing. Even your kettle helm or stahlhelm wouldn't have done much since most of the artillery was direct, usually solid shot or canister shot. At that point, you're better off shedding the weight.

>>32579447
It's a big chunk of wood and metal, on a flintlock unless you hit them with the lock it won't damage it. You might lose a flint or something, they are fairly robust though. You could include a very low chance of breaking something on a critical miss.

>>32585358
I did some changes
it's like this now:

Pistol (1h)
20 Piercing dmg
range:50m | 20shots/magazine | 1 turn to recharge
+25% dmg against armor
weight: 3

Revolver (1h)
35 Piercing dmg
range:50m | 6shots/clip | 1 turn to recharge
+50% dmg against armor
weight: 3

Shotgun (2h)
50 Striking dmg (variable with distance)
range:25m | 1shot/shot | 1 turn to recharge
+25% dmg against armor | Causes injury damage (hard to heal)
weight: 5

Assault Rifle (2h)
35 Piercing dmg
range:200m | 40shots/magazine | 1 turn to recharge
+50% dmg against armor
weight: 6
expensive

Machine Gun (Mounted)
45 Piercing dmg
range:100m (low acc) | 200shots/magazine | 1 turn to recharge
+50% dmg against armor
weight: 30
expensive

Power Rifle (Mounted)
35 Piercing dmg
range:1000m | 3shots/clip | 1 turn to recharge
+100% dmg against armor
weight: 12
expensive

what do you think?

>>32585481
Forgot to mention, plate armor has default 30 def. If anything above 30 damage hits it, it breaks/bends/makes a hole.

>>32579335
Here's an idea: you don't necessarily need to avoid having overpowered weapons like revolvers and stuff, if you set it right.

Revolvers and lever-action rifles could start out great, far overpowering swords and axes, but they do require maintenance. If the DM plays it right, he could be throwing swamps and mud at the players, that gets into the gun mechanism, rain soaking the powder, random 'bad luck' events like that which makes firearms temporarily useless but don't really affect a sword.

You could also introduce other random penalties/mistakes, just to mess with firearms users, like revolver chainfires https://youtu.be/Ne4VgCdAy7Y?t=58 or squib loads (bullet gets stuck in the barrel).

Basically, make the normal stuff linearly good, but make firearms non-linear: they're excellent when they've been maintained, random penalties might take up time to correct, and certain circumstances might render them useless.

>>32585565
This, there's all sorts of penalties you can add to guns to make them worse to compensate for their higher lethality.

Reliability penalties like the anon above described are a good start. You could also introduce an accuracy system, determined both by an innate characteristic of the gun and the player's stats. Further penalties could be added for quick follow up shots due to recoil. In addition, firing guns in enclosed or dark spaces can be extremely disorienting for the user and those around them. You could definitely discourage people from using guns while spelunking if the muzzle blast reduced players' ability to hear and see.

>>32585288
If they're anything like real flintlocks, a .50 or .55 caliber or whatever will punch clean through whatever armor you put in front of it and whatever guy is wearing it. The thing about armor is that it is made to do things: 1) stop most blades and arrowheads, and 2) retain mobility. There has to be some compromise here, since armor that could stop everything is a tank. No one can wear a tank. At the same time, you have to realize that some of your mobility is going to be restricted or else you're going to have too many vulnerabilities. That's just life. Now that goes for mobility in range of motion in the joints and in the gross weight.

The French found at Agincourt that even good arrows can kill plated knights on bad ground. A bullet travels far faster and distributes the energy over a smaller area than the arrowhead, even the best armor-defeating arrow is far outstripped by good musket shot.

Magic armor or special alloys might throw a little something into the mix. You could plausibly say that they might stop a few bullets. How many though? We have hardened steel plates these days rated for armor, but they're rather heavy. Front and back plates both might be 5kg a pop. So it has to be something around as hard as modern steel alloys that we use in armor without being so heavy. You don't want any metallic armor that would be much harder generally speaking for fear of brittleness.

>>32579335
Realistically guns would be pretty good against (living) humanoid targets. However they would struggle against other fantastical beasts. The undead for example would be very tough to kill, as a zombie doesn't care if it's bleeding out or has its CNS severed. Unlike a sword, axe or mace which can rend, chop and crush a zombie, a firearm is just gonna fill it with a bunch of relatively tiny holes. Also the effectiveness of a firearm rapidly declines with the size of the target, so they would be pretty ineffective against shit like dragons or giants unless you where shooting them in very specific places.

>>32585565
>>32585634
Those are really great ideas and I'll sure use them in future campaigns (seriously, I really liked them, never thought about it in this angle). The problem is right now it doesn't matter, players are so overpowered that guns became useless, not too strong. That's why I want to throw in organized troops with modern guns, maybe they'll make a challenge.

>>32585660
The human troops should all stop wearing armor then, I guess, only for status maybe. Specially because I'm throwing in modern guns, not flintlock stuff.

>>32585745
If you're using modern guns why not use modern armor capable of stopping bullets?

>>32585783
Because it doesn't look as cool as plate armor.

>>32581621
Machine gun should have a larger magazine, say 40 instead of 20, and give it a small, 5-10%, accuracy penalty and some kind of status effect that reduces the movement of the target and any other enemy within 5 meters of the target.

>>32585481
You can lower the weight on the mg and increase the reload time to 2 turns, machine guns that aren't fed by regular box mags take a good deal longer to reload than an assault rifle would. Also giving it a medium accuracy while mounted and a severe accuracy penalty for something like a snap shot would be a good idea.

>>32585783
Players have no reason too, they can dodge most bullets and the ones that hit them can be healed.
Heroes just have better armor that can take a tank shell to the face and not even move.
Humans troops might actually do that.

>>32585841
I'll do this, thanks for the suggestion!

>>32585855
> they can dodge most bullets
The player characters can move at speeds up to mach 3?

>>32585745
>players are so overpowered that guns became useless, not too strong.
You could also go with the specialized ammo angle, where if you have enemies that require specific shit like silver for werewolves, you could have ammunition types that would shred certain enemy types.

>>32585880
You don't need to be faster than a bullet to dodge it, just fast enough to get it out of its trajectory. If you can predict where it will be before its even out of the gun, you can dodge it.

Also I'm not a pro or anything, but I believe that it's pretty hard to hit a moving target. So hitting a moving target that can move so fast the human eye can barely keep on must be way more hard.

File: 8017773_orig.jpg (17KB, 541x376px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 541x376px

>>32585841
Are you sure machine guns are super heavy?

It looks heavy to me

>>32585967
I meant "aren't super heavy"

>>32585921
>You don't need to be faster than a bullet to dodge it, just fast enough to get it out of its trajectory.
Modern handgun rounds: 1000-1600fps
Modern rifle rounds: 2000-3200fps
At 20m, a pistol round traveling at 1000fps needs just 0.16 seconds to hit its target. that's 0.06 seconds to move out of the path of the bullet accounting for a nominal 0.1 second reaction time. That means moving at least half a meter in 0.06 seconds. That's just a slow pistol round.
The hard to hit a moving target thing can be accounted for with accuracy penalties.

>>32585967
That's not a machine gun.

So, not to derail, but I'd kinda like to bring guns into a D&D 5e game I run.

5e is far too simple to allow for much of what you're doing here, but it's expandable. Special rules can be added to most weapons.

The typical ranged weapons for such characters are thus

Short Bow - Simple
DEX based
1d6 P damage

Light Crossbow - Simple
DEX based
1d8 P damage
Requires Feat or can only fire once per turn

Heavy Crossbow - martial
DEX based
1d10 P damage
Requires Feat, or can only fire once per turn

Longbow - martial
DEX based
1d8 P damage

Matchlock Pistol - Simple
WIS or DEX based
2d6 Damage
Requires action next turn to reload

Matchlock Musket - simple
WIS or DEX based
2d8 damage
Requires action next turn to reload

That makes it slightly better than the bows, and better for non weapon using classes. Bows will be superior for classes that get more than one attack per turn, which is most weapon wielding classes. Ironically this might make Guns the ideal weapons for Clerics and Druids...

>>32585975
>>32585967
The FN Minimi, which is a very common LMG, is 7.1 kg.
The FN Mag, which is a very common GPMG, is 11-13kg.

>>32585967
M249 should be used as a base comparison for Light Machine Guns. It weighs 22lbs when loaded.

Characters using machineguns should also take a pretty decent accuracy loss when not bracing the gun against something (ground, fence/low wall, window sill, etc...) unless they're REALLY fucking strong. Accuracy in volume is definitely a thing though.

Hitting anything past 200m while standing with any firearm is pretty difficult.

File: 1.webm (3MB, 500x280px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 500x280px

>>32586004
It's not? Thanks google.

>>32586034
The weight is not in kilos tho, is just a game measurement for balance. I don't want anyone dashing around like a fairy while carrying a machine gun.

>>32586061
>M249
Sorry if this sounds terribly retarded but I'm having a hard time writing a flavor text for machine guns. I can't make they sound different enough from assault rifles without getting into technical.

>>32586092
>LMG vs ARs

The difference is in use. MGs are for suppression and laying down a field of fire.

ARs are general purpose do-all guns. Standard issue.

>>32579537
You're a moron.

>>32586092
Machinguns are really used more to suppress enemy.

https://youtu.be/uZ2SWWDt8Wg


200rds while taking a decent accuracy penalty from weight/recoil/design compared to Assault Rifles.

Use them to keep enemy heads down and prevent them from advancing from cover as well as to cover your teams advances. It's sort of a team weapon when used correctly. Maybe use that As a background for flavor text?

>>32586128
>>32586102
I'm trying something around this, thanks for the help. My main problem is suppress doesn't really translate well into spanish, it loses its meaning.

>>32586102
This isn't necessarily the only difference. LMGs are usually also built with quick-change barrels, and occasionally a belt feed system. They tend to be slightly heavier due to this, but they're still usually shaped like rifles.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms

>>32585481
Power rifle should do as much or more damage than the machine gun, since they would fire similar rounds and the power rifle probably has better ballistics.

File: Objekt_136706_00_700x700.jpg (129KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 700x700px

>>32579335
if you're in a low fantasy renaissance period setting then your only choice is to make guns OP and shit in your other characters cornflakes

firing mechanisms
>literally just a venthole you light with a slowmatch
like a handgonne or some early longer barreled guns.
>matchlock
>mechanical matchlock
>wheellock
>if solidly in the 1700's then add in flintlocks and place them a step below the wheelock
quick and dirty mechanic is have the firing mechanism modify how many turns it takes to load the weapon and/or the chance of a misfire

barrel length=increased fps=increased damage
caliber=increased damage

rifling has existed since the ~15th century and was on a lot of hunting rifles, as well as sights. not common on military rifles and increased fouling

ammo type
>iron round ball
>steel bolts
for use in the hand gonne. highly innacurate but OP damage
>lead round ball
>special snowflake alchemical projectiles up to and including area of effect because D&D

and contrary to popular belief multiple shot firearms were not "common" but exist all over europe. also early cartridge firearms(via removable breach)
most common is actually superimposed load, 2 or more projectiles in the same barrel with their own ventholes and multiple locks or a system to choose where the spark goes. manual revolvers with different mechanisms also existed.

Anything that isn't purpose built shotproof armor should not stop bullets one iota. anything human sized or smaller should go down in one shot to the chest or head.

or you could just swipe the crossbow stats and fire rates and call it a day because it's just D&D.

Dump of random 14th-18th century firearms incoming

File: RP,Hinterlader,~1545.1 kl.jpg (188KB, 920x597px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 920x597px

>>32579603
>shoot gun into crowd of kolbolds
>kolbold 1 drops like a fucking rock
>kolbold 2-15 keep coming
>get rekd but for your paladin/warrior aggroing like a motherfucker

if you're having a 5 man party fight 1 enemy at a time then you need to work on your dungeon, not mechanics.

File: St-Hinterladerbüchse m. Patronenkoller. 4 kl.jpg (245KB, 920x562px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 920x562px

>>32586788

File: St-Hinterladerbüchse m. Patronenkoller. 1 kl.jpg (148KB, 920x294px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 920x294px

>>32586849

Fighting with guns is all about shot placement.
Damage should be based on how many points over the minimum to hit is.
Grazed
Non lethal minor damage
Non lethal high damage
Head/ heart shot
And can have effects like Disabling a limb or causing severe bleeding
Large calibers could ignore armor