Possible G36 successor from austria. So, what do you guys think,

because Germany at least has enough of their military knowledge left to know that bullpups are for cucked countries.

>>32543857
>proven bullpup design

hmm cant think of one

>>32543857
Because people are getting over the bullpup phase and realizing that Eugene Stoner's pattern is the best in the world.

You see, NATO euro countries are like rebellious teenagers. They'll go off and do their own thing for a while, waste time, money and their health on useless projects like "bullpups are so much better" and "muh .280 british" and "muh indigenous designs." But like all teenagers, they eventually grow up and come to realize that Papa America had it right all along and they should have listened to him first.

>>32543870
>Aug
>German
Pick one.

>>32543857
Instantly knew it was Steyr. Pretty slick AUG style optic.

>>32543857

never ever they will pick not a german producer.

I bet my ass that they will go with heckler & Koch

>>32543857
>that's....yeah that's an ar-15 with a piston.

PROVEN DESIGN
R
O
V
E
N

>>32543893
The piston and QC barrel are also taken from the AUG

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Bullshit, they will stay with the g36.
The only change will be the barrel size.

As the US Army changed to the M4 they will change to the G36k.

>>32543857
And here I am just trying to find a decent AR in Europe. Fuck this noise, give us a civilian model!

Basically a modern hk416.
clearly the proven versatility of the AR15 combined with the ingenuity of hundreds of american companies all trying to build a better rifle has paid off, and it's being recognized.

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>>32543948
There's been a bunch of political bullshit where the German government thinks H&K has too much influence and basically has a monopoly in the German small arms industry. They're using the "accuracy tests" as proof that they should ditch the G36 even though they're about as dumb if not dumber than the US Army's dust tests with the M4/SCAR/HK416/XM8.
The Defense Minister has already stated that there is no future for the G36 in the Bundeswehr

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>>32543857
Oh boy, a new AR clone.

>>32543857
>AR with AUG gas system, barrel, and sight
muh dick

>>32543934
Goddamn, I wonder if we'll see one in Burgerland.

>>32543948
>>32543948
why is that stock so goddamn fuglgy
who the fuck thought THAT would be a good idea over the original easthetic one

>>32543889
>AR pattern
You do realize the G36 short stroke piston was influences from the AR18 like nearly every single short stroke piston rifle that ever encountered Stoner's designs, right? They simoly added their own methods.

>>32544029
I mentioned the AR because of the lower is almost 100% ar15 when you look at it, but the gas piston style is more HK

>>32543948
>>32543994
>>32544019

G36 series parts kits when?

>AUGR15
I never knew I wanted this until now

>>32544020
everyone who had to get a good cheekweld with an optic

>>32543857
shit idea, HK416 is already proven by SOF across all NATO as well as Norwegian regulars. Only reason to choose this instead is to send H&K a message

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>>32543889
> Because people are getting over the bullpup phase and realizing that Eugene Stoner's pattern is the best in the world.

look at this AR fag

>>32544206
>Wanting milk jug plastic gun that you can count on not holding zero

>>32544258
he's right ya know

>yet another AR knockoff with parts incompatibility

Meh.

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>>32544245
>HK416 is already proven by SOF across all NATO as well as Norwegian regulars.
>Only reason to choose this instead is to send H&K a message

HK Fanboy much?

Here is an image copied from the service weapon replacement trials held by the New Zealand Defence Force. Unfortunately, commercial sensitivity forbids me posting actual test results, but they were thorough and 'cost-blind'.

>>32543889
The adoption of the M16 and subsequent adoption of 5.56 by NATO is so shameful, you can actually read the congressional investigation online. The investigation reveals that corruption and incompetence in the US government and Armed Forces lead to the cucking of the M16 and 5.56x45, which indirectly cost the lives of US Soldiers in Vietnam. None of the Generals or politicians involved faced any punishment, and Remington seems to be doing just fine... What a great example you guys have set!

However, I will agree that Stoner's original AR15 design and the ammunition that went with it was fit for purpose.

>>32543870
>Germany
>not cucked

>>32544318
Nothing I wrote about the HK416 is false. Everyone I've spoken to who was issued one has at least found it to be reliable and accurate, and there are plenty of government customers who are pleased with their decision. As a civilian I wouldn't care for one myself, but it's undeniably a better choice than some bizarro AUG/AR bastard gun.

Also in your infographic the Suitability Effectiveness criteria includes "price". How is this cost blind?

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>>32543857
hideous

>>32544334
>but it's undeniably a better choice than some bizarro AUG/AR bastard gun

To my knowledge there are no public performance tests available but you already know the 416 is better - how's life in the H&K marketing department?

>>32544402
how is it not better to choose something already battle-proven over a complete unknown quantity?

anyways you still haven't answered the question about cost blind testing.

>>32544437
>how is it not better to choose something already battle-proven over a complete unknown quantity?
With that approach we'd still use muzzleloaders. I'm not saying that the 416 couldn't be the better gun, but why not do some extensive field trials to find out.

>anyways you still haven't answered the question about cost blind testing
I'm not that anon - but cost is always a huge factor in military procurement.

>>32544262

>he fell for the meme

>>32544459
>With that approach we'd still use muzzleloaders.
Seeing as this new rifle is heavier than the 416 and has a stupid quick change barrel button right on the part of the handguard you want to be empty, I don't see what would make this rifle better. If it actually brought some useful functionality to the table it would be worth considering but there's nothing to indicate that's the case.

Anyways field trials are far from foolproof. When you test a rifle for 3 weeks and field it for 20 years, you find out that the 3 weeks field trials told you barely anything.

>>32544486
It doesn't need to be better, it's enough to bring similar performance at a lower price point. If Germany intends to replace a significant amount of their service rifles every cent will count.

>>32543857
will they at least make the takedown pins actually keep the upper from rattling around?

because they are a serious weak-point in the AR design

>>32544245
>>32544334
>>32544437
>I'll just take the proven design without even testing wether something else is better
This is how you get mediocre equipment that will only be changed when someone else who didn't embarasses you for it.

>>32543965
>Oberland Arms
>Schmeisser
>Hera Arms
>DAR
>SIG
>HK
>Haenel
And that's just domestic producers in germany.

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>>32544505
>Seeing as this new rifle is heavier than the 416 and has a stupid quick change barrel button right on the part of the handguard you want to be empty, I don't see what would make this rifle better.

Again nothing about this rifle tells me Steyr is making an improvement. It's literally all the same features plus even more weight, but with a stupid quick change barrel. Steyr completely missed the boat with this one.

Honestly the Colt Canada MRR seems like a much more compelling choice, based on their track record and civilian reports.

>>32544533
>Colt Canda
You realize the chances of a non-domestic supplier are already low and for a company not located in the EU it's about 0.0000%.

>>32544526
>SIG IS DEAD IT IS SIG SAUER

>>32544583
other europoor countries have been happy to give Colt Canada business

there's also about 0% chance of it being steyr's dead in the water design from like 5 years ago

>>32544263
Bullpups are superior. It's just that countries are scared of them. They look at america and think, "if they do okay with an AR, so can we". But the truth is the the M4 sucks at everything except CQB. It has no range or lethality. It's shit. A bullpup at distances beyond 300m will outperform an M4 because bullpups have longer barrels.

>>32544626
>It's just that countries are scared of them.
Is this bait?

>>32544626
but plenty of countries like Israel, France, the UK, Australia, etc have all tried the bullpup style service rifle with middling results, and oftentimes their SOF units end up with conventional format rifles.

the muzzle velocity advantage of a bullpup is highly theoretical. On a weapon system when hit percentages are relatively low, and the inherent precision of the rifle is already around 2 MOA, sometimes made worse by bad bullpup triggers and poorly thought out optics mounts, the improved lethality of a bullpup doesn't really manifest in actual use.

>>32544642
I'm pretty sure all those countries lost less soldiers during the 2003 invasion of Iraq than america. This is evidene that their guns are better suited to defeat AKs than ARs are.

>>32544668
The fuck....

>>32544674
Check and mate, Yankee!

>>32543857
The stock looks awful and that optic looks like they hack sawed it off an aug and jb welded a male attachment point to it. Other than that, seems pretty good, I like the barrel system.

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>>32544437
You realize the 416 was going against a near identical weapon with decades of proven experience right? By your logic the 416 should of just been thrown in the garbage instead of being given a chance. It should still be thrown in the garbage but that's beside the point.

>>32543994
Also H&K has been romping the first tier arms market for a decade now. Making everyone else look stupid, no other company having a look-in. I wouldn't be surprised if there has been government-level international negotiations: indirect threats, conciliatory concessions. H&K themselves recently said they will only sell to "NATO nations" now.

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>>32543857
Oh look. Another AR-15 pattern rifle. Who could have thought

>>32544604
But usually these countries don't have a domestic small arms industry left.
As I said, I doubt that anyone outside of Germany will get the contract but Steyr/Rheinmetall is still more likely than Colt.

>>32544704
The 416 actually brought new functionality to the table with a short stroke piston. Meanwhile this Steyr rifle is bringing yet another short stroke piston, only heavier.

>>32544682
>>32544668
Hang on how many did the yanks loose again 47 I believe.

>>32544715
>H&K themselves recently said they will only sell to "NATO nations" now.

I bet they'd still sell to Australia.

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>>32544668

>>32544746
Australia is not in NATO? The fuck?

>>32544642
To be fair, SOF have different needs than regular infantry.
Either way, triggers and optics are not inherent bad in bullpups, just a bit harder to get right.

>>32544766
>To be fair, SOF have different needs than regular infantry.
this is true but in the context of a intermediate caliber service rifle the differences are extremely minor.

>Either way, triggers and optics are not inherent bad in bullpups, just a bit harder to get right.
agreed. Not opposed to bullpups on principle, but none have got it quite right so far.

>>32544764
https://www.rt.com/business/368548-heckler-koch-no-supply-non/

>>32544809
>"Company products like the G36 assault rifle are standard issue for armies worldwide"

What the hell? No they aren't.

>>32544837
but they are
The G36 is standard issue for the German army, the Lithuanian military, and the Spanish military, and this is not counting a bunch of Europoor SOF.

The HK416 is the new French service rifle and the Norwegian service rifle, plus it's issued to the USMC as the Infantry Automatic Rifle and to a million random SOF and police units.

>>32545008
Also Latvia
t. Lithuanian

>no barrel extension
Way to go backwards. I hope they have a steel trunnion pressed into that aluminum upper.

>>32544746
Probably. They have 417s.

>>32544746
>>32544764
>>32545082
>North Atlantic Treaty Organization
>Democratic, noncorrupt NATO countries or partners
Of course they sell to australia.

>TOP CHARGING
>NO FOLDING STOCK

C U C K E D
U
C
K
E
D

>>32545662
What do you prefer? Bottom charging?

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>>32545697
Side charging like God intended

>>32543857
>get piston AR
>slap AUG barrel and reflex sight

innovation!

>>32543994
I mean, what other german small arms companies can you name?

>>32544258
>Meanwhile, the entire world is basing their military weapons on the stoner platform

>>32545718
Walther

>>32543857
The G36 isn't going anywhere, the STM556 was just a bid and there isn't even a program to replace the G36.

>>32544668
>I am retarded
we know

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>>32545703
Left side charging is pretty based

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>>32545008
>The world
>List countries that bought maybe 50, because that's all they can afford

The Austrians realized that bullpups are a meme and like the communist countries a weapons platform that is widely used by NATO is a wise choice. Digging the aesthetics of that carry handle optic by the way.

>>32543857
>it's another AR15

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>>32545703
>reciprocating charging handle
>overpriced AR-15

>>32545760
>Inducing complex failure prone mechanical linkages
>not having your CH directly attached to your bolt

>cost having any relevance amidst the military industrial complex

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>>32545752
>carry handle optic

>>32545782
I know its an AUG style optic but it gives me AR carry handle vibes

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>>32545778
>cost having any relevance amidst the military industrial complex

>proven bullpup design
u wut

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>>32545789
>AR carry handle

>>32545798
You know the shoulder thing that goes up. Are you being dense or autistic here?

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>>32545718
Rheinmetall, who is partnering with Steyr on the rifle in the OP. They also make the MG3 and bought out Mauser more than a decade ago

Haenel is starting to make a comeback. They manufactured the MP40 and STG44 back in the day. Their CR223 got adopted by Hamburg police and their RS9 bolt action rifle was recently adopted by the German Army as their new sniper (G29)

>>32543857
Is this just an AUG in a different package?

Why not adopt the AUG?

>>32546213
Bullpups are an old meme
AR-15 mutants are the new hotness

>>32544318
Oh my god. Only one of the rifles (the 601) had compromises and that gun wasn't even widely deployed.

>>32546238
The AUG is not related to the AR-15 so neither will this rifle be. If I can get something cheaper than an AUG that uses AUG magazines, tho...I'll welcome it.

>>32544318
>Unfortunately, commercial sensitivity forbids me posting actual test results, but they were thorough and 'cost-blind'.
Did the 516 outperform the 416? Same guy made both but the 516 supposedly has some upgrades.

>>32545795
Alright, fair enough, but the cost of small arms is peanuts compared to anything else.

>>32546323
And militaries trying to cheap out on them seems odd to me.

>>32545703
Is he gonna be ok?

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>>32546240
>9. Changes made necessary by ball propellant fall into three categories: (1) strengthen parts which were failing due to added stress associated with high cyclic rate; (2) change finish to prevent accumulation of carbon deposit; and (3) slow down cyclic rate.
>16 Jun 65 Change hardness of bolt
>13 Sep 66 Shot peen bolt face
>16 Sep 66 Chrome plate bolt carrier key
>16 Jul 66 Change action spring guide assembly

>11. Certain modifications made to the rifle at the insistence of the Army were unnecessary and were not supported by test data.

>12. The change in barrel twist from 1:14 to 1:12 decreased the bullet lethality.

>16. The rifle project manager, the administrative contracting officer, the members of the Technical Coordinating Committee, and others as high in authority as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Installations and Logistics, knowingly accepted M16 rifles that would not pass the approved acceptance test.

>17. The failure on the part of officials with authority in the Army to cause action to be taken to correct the deficiencies of the (Remington) 5.56mm ammunition borders on criminal negligence.

>18. There is no proof that the modifications will eliminate the malfunctions experienced with the M16 in Vietnam.

>23. No instructions regarding tightening of production quality controls were issued by the rifle project manager, Army Materiel Command, or anyone in high authority after continued reports of malfunctions were received from Vietnam.

>24. Bias and prejudices of individuals associated with Army commands or agencies responsible for development and testing of weapons made it extremely difficult for higher authority to obtain objective information upon which decisions could have been made.


What a great example to follow! USA surely are the masters of procurement!

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a953110.pdf

>>32543870
They are fun. Also I like more barellel with less space.

>barrel to bolt interface is aluminum

no

>>32543857
....so it's an unbullpupped aug?

>>32545008
>The HK416 is the new French service rifle
>80 000 units sold to france
>only issued to SF
>everyone will and still use FAMAS G2/FELIN

ladies and gentlemen, i present you the H&K shill, only cost 0.01$ a post and can do damage control, shilling, and shitpost all day because he has nothing to do with his life

>>32545750
France is buying 102000 Hk416s by 2019, the Norwegians have already fielded 42000.

>>32548217
kek good job quoting only the parts that sound bad

how about
18.
Concur with the finding. However, the independent test conducted
verified the value of the changes in question. Malfunctions
have been reduced but will never be "eliminated."

>>32548423
you realize they're supposed to get 102000 by 2019 and the guns are supposed to keep coming for 10 years, right?

>>32548893
>quoting only the parts that sound bad

Character limit, I couldn't be bothered doing two posts.

Do you know what 'concur' means?

>>32543857
>rails on top the scope
ÖSTEREICH WARUM

>>32544719
Eagles
> strong
> just taken off the endangered species list
pick one

>>32549224
>Do you know what 'concur' means?
Yes.
Did you read the rest? The report basically says that the changes made a big difference in independent testing, but that it's impossible to completely eliminate malfunctions (as in no weapons system has 0 MRBF). In other words the question was poorly posed and taking the answer out of context is very misleading.

>>32548423
100.000 HK416F have been ordered already, and will start being fielded during the year. Another order of 12.000 more rifles will be made next year.
All troops are going to get it eventually, front line troops in foreign theatres being the priority, but in the meantime they'll indeed still be using the FAMAS FELIN and F1 (not G2 because only the navy has got those, and in very limited numbers.) alongisde the HK416F on a timeline of 10 years for the order to be complete.

>>32546213
It looks like 80% AR with some AUG for flavor

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>>32548423
>being this retarded
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/23/breaking-french-defense-procurement-department-confirms-heckler-koch-hk416-win-french-rifle-contract/

>>32544318
>arx
needs a italy BTFO too

wonder how it performed though, never heard much about that rifle since it came out

>>32543857
Why do the Germans even need rifles when they can just present their anuses at the Russians and Muslims?

>>32543881
good bait.

>>32545703
That deer is tiny. Where's it's parents?

>>32548217
>>12. The change in barrel twist from 1:14 to 1:12 decreased the bullet lethality.
Anyone who memes about overstablization is not a reputable source, even if they are a congressional inquiry.

Jesus fuck.

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>>32543857
>that scope

holy shit thats sexy

>>32551360
This

>>32551390
And everything else is fucking gross.

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>>32551390
not gonna lie, I want to see one on an AUGA3

So is the ar15 the new FAL? Right arm of the.. well, they're no longer free i guess.

>>32543889
>Papa America had it right all along
>pushed 7.62x51 on everyone
>adopted M14

>>32553323
I'll concede the M14 but everyone still uses .308.

>>32553338
because everyone invested heavily in it, not because of its inherent qualities.

>>32553374
No, because of its inherent qualities.

>>32549336
>0 MRBF
Lol, that's just broken. You mean infinite MRBF.

>>32553338
We'd be using .280 british and .30-06 if not for your meddling.

WOW a piston AR, how cool and new...

>>32553323
Don't be sad, since you gave china the specs for the m14 i now have a wonderful cheap Norinco M305 thanks USA

>>32556933
Shhhh don't tell them that, cheap milsurp and Chink guns are all we got left anon

>>32556933
No one gave China the M14 specifications, they reverse engineered them.

>>32556803
>.280 british and .30-06 becoming standard calibers
>thinks clearing houses and CQB with a .280 is a good idea
Please shut the fuck up