Are brush guns real deal or is it fuddlore? I'm writing

My father preferred the M16 but yes, he said there were some soldiers who preferred the M14 because of various factors, "stopping power" being one of them. He said one of the guys in his platoon carried one almost exclusively to cut down banana trees with it for lunch.

Weapon acquisition was just different in Nam. People would buy issued guns off each other. He said people were always trying to buy his issued CAR-15 off him, and everybody, including him, to get their hands on the pilots .38 snubnosed revolvers.

>>32500513
That's a red Ryder buddy.

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>>32500513
Mad Dog Shriver was known to have used a .444 Marlin to 'bust bunkers'. Probably the only documented used of such gun in 'nam.

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>>32500628
110% baddass if you ever get the chance to read about the guy btw. There's a story of him taking a shit in the NCO club after some guys mistreated his dog.

https://army.togetherweserved.com/army/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=Person&ID=68593

http://www.taskforceomegainc.org/s139.html

>>32500513
More inertia in 7.62x51 vs 5.56x45 leads to it performing better in punching through vegetation, but I honestly don't think 5.56 will have a problem cutting leaves as long as you're not trying to shoot through tree trunks.

>>32500513
Is that image real and Ive just never noticed he had a fucking lever action all these times or is it shopped?

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>>32500711
Real

see pic

>>32500711
Ya, his character in the book carried a Red Ryder too.

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https://youtu.be/P5dve7vAY9I

>>32500513
pretty sure 'brush gun' doesnt have to do with shooting through vegitation but shoot in vegitation. A levergun is superior to a bolt action for firing while standing or crouching or pretty much anything but prone.

I've had two Nam vets rip on the AR platform in front of perspective buyers because of how the 5.56 "is weak and basically a .22 mag", they also said they picked up enemy AK's and used them because the M16A1 sucked but stopped because people recognized the sound of AK's and tried to call artillery on their location.
I can't delineate between truth and lies with 'nam vets, they all seem very convinced with what they experienced but some of it sounds like bullshit.

>>32500830

>I picked up AKs and used them instead!

Yeah total bullshit.

>>32500830
>people recognized the sound of AK's and tried to call artillery on their location

Gonna call BS on that. In Nam engagements were often close quarters, and chaotic. I doubt someone could distinguish the difference between the US and Viet weapons by sound, at a distance, and confidently enough to call in artillery.

>>32500830
Probably more likely to get shot carrying an AK if someone saw the weapon before a positive ID on the uniform.

>>32500941
WEW DAT FAL

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>>32501111
PRAISE KEK

>>32500513
That's a BB gun. Don't think it gets mentioned directly in the film, but in Hasford's novel that character carries a BB gun 'cause he's a bit fucked in the head.

>>32501083
Eh, in current battle zones, the sound of guns are unique and are often used as identifyers of friend or foe.

If you hear ack acks, then, must likely it's an Ak-47 used by a Hadji.

>>32501134
In a desert environment sound is likely transmitted more clearly, not to mention better modern comms would make it easier to know where friendlies are located.

I still don't think sound alone would give someone the confidence to call in artillery. It is common for hadji's to celebrate by firing into the air. So the sound of an AK firing does not necessarily mean a hostile either. I don't know, but I imagine it is very seldom that artillery is called in without some form of visual confirmation.

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>>32500513

That's a Red Ryder BB gun though.

Hauling around an additional full-sized rifle would be impractical.

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>>32501111
SLR

>>32501083
It happens multiple times in the various LRRP/LRP/MACV-SOG memoirs

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>>32501244
Thats pretty cool, not only an SLR, but also mounted with an XM148 GL. I'd have no doubt that is the only SLR that ever got one of those honestly. Anyone got info on it?

>>32501322
>Anyone got info on it?
It's Australian SAS, I remember the picture from previous threads, and people complaining that the guy's got the barrel on the ground.

>>32501343
Thanks Anon, that gives me a lead. I figured they were some form of ANZAC at least, but in the back of mind I half wondered whether some G.I. on R&R in Saigon ended up picking an SLR up off the black market

>>32500830
>they also said they picked up enemy AK's and used them because the M16A1

Full of shit. I've heard the exact opposite, using an AK was a good way to get friendly fired.

>>32501083
This is the number one reason my dad said he never picked up an AK.

His CAR-15 jammed once, and it was his fault. You had to sleep with a round in the chamber because of constant ambushes, but it was important that in the morning you eject the round. Overnight, humidity caused the case to expand which would make the round fail to extract. One day he forgot to do it, and surprise surprise it failed to eject.

The biggest draw for the AK was the reliable 30 round mags. He was only issed 20 round mags and they became horribly unreliable if you loaded them past 18~ rounds. So to him, the AKs definitely had the M16 beat in terms of the amount of fire you could put out.

>>32500941
>>32501111
>>32501244
>>32501322
They were SLRs modified in the field and each one was known as "The Bitch"

Under mounted launcher, chopped down barrel and a full auto receiver were the usual combo for these guns.

>>32501366

That problem was fixed when they finally started issuing 30 round reloadable magazines. Originally mags were 20 and intended to be loaded, used, and disposed of.

>>32501376
In fucking nam?
For real?
Like the same nam that "if it ain't nailed down and somtime if it is imma gonna make it go boom, because I'm a commie gook and that's what we do" nam?
What the fuck where they thinking?

https://youtu.be/P5dve7vAY9I
I'm surprised that no one has posted this yet. Scientific evidence that brush guns actually isn't just fudd-lore

>>32501395
The idea was that like Garand en-blocs, you deliver the ammo to the front line in a disposable packet, simplifying logistics. The problem was that mags are expensive, more so than en-blocs, and so they were never truly disposable as ammo was supplied by the can not in single use mags- thus forcing the recycling of worn mags. Combined with the tendency of grunts to load 21 into a 20 rounder, thus wearing out the spring very fast, as well as trying to insert said mag against a closed bolt, led to rather extreme wear on the mags.
The official solution was to load only 19-18 to avoid excessive wear, and the 30-rounders were designed from the ground up to be reusable.
I have a feeling that part of the reason disposable mags never were a thing is that Mcnamara was chief bean counter at the time, and he wouldn't let grunts throw away a "perfectly fine magazine, lightly used".
Interestingly the French tried to do the same thing eith their FAMAS 25 rounders, and it failed in exactly the same way.
The later G2 FAMAS was designed to use USGI pattern mags to increase interoperability and reduce mag issues.

>>32501395

Dunno. One of the same issues with the Pancor Jackhammer and why it never took off.

The M16 was pretty shit, issued with no cleaning kit or instructions, had no chrome lined receiver, and the ammo it was tested on was not the same ammo issued, which was more corrosive. The M16A1 was fine, the mags were trash. Finally when the mags were fixed, we were more or less done with the whole Vietnam thing.

The M16 development cycle was actually not that bad, and the time from "this gun has some issues" to "nyet, rifle is fine" was actually extremely short for a weapons procurement standpoint. 90% of the issue is that this entire weapons program was ran during A WAR IN A FUCKING JUNGLE WITH A CONSCRIPT ARMY.

Politicians, ladies and gentlemen.

>>32501395
Americans were dropping booby-trapped arms and magazines too, you know?

>>32501417
>which was more corrosive
The issue was that its pressure curve was different, which played hell with the functioning of the mechanisms.

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>>32500647
> you will never run around the bushes of 'Nam with a suppressed Greaser

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>>32501322
>>32501370

>>32501443

The gun was tested with cleaner burning stick powder, the rounds issued were cheap, corrosive ball powder. Probably a little of both.

I can only talk from my own experience in Lebanon in 1991. Whenever our QRF went out the insurgents dissapeared once they knew we were there, Because they knew that our 7.62x51 punched through the thin concrete walls of the buildings they were hiding in, not like the 5.56 used by most other peacekeeping nations.

>>32501464
Again, the issue wasn't corrosion. In fact, powder is never the corrosive element-it's the primer that's problematic. They switched from IMR to ball powder, which mostly changed the pressure curve- notably, significantly raising gas port pressure. This resulted in significantly more violent operation, which wore out parts faster and had a negative impact on reliability, for multiple reasons:
-less time for the mag to present a round for feeding
-faster bcg leading to more forceful feeding and increased chance of deformation
-more carrier bounce resulting in greater incidence of hammer follow
-faster extraction caused more issues with extraction under residual pressure, exacerbating the torn cases problem
-cyclic fire rates above maximum spec, colt had to get waivers for this problem
Eventually these were solved by modifications, such as the free-floating-weight buffers, case head hardness specs, and tweaks to the gas system.
But the Olin Ball Powder wasn't more corrosive than DuPont IMR.

good deal on 223 if anyone needs it, youre welcome

http://www.wbarmory.com/product.federal-american-eagle-ammo-223-remington556mm-nato-55-grain-fmj-boat-tail-on-stripper-clips-900-round-case-78?utm_source

>>32500575
Echoing what you said , my dad bought a AK off the street when he arrived in Vietnam with his first paycheck , I don't remember the exact price, about the cost of combat pay so it didn't cost much. He went into Laos so all their guys bought and used AKs. He was just as much as a fudd for the M-14 as everyone else was by calling it a beautiful rifle.

>>32500575
>>32500575
>Weapon acquisition was just different in Nam. People would buy issued guns off each other. He said people were always trying to buy his issued CAR-15 off him, and everybody, including him, to get their hands on the pilots .38 snubnosed revolvers.

That's awesome

>>32500513
>wanting to carry an m14 and it's ammo through the hot ass jungle all day

>>32501417
90 percent of the issues was Ordinance Corps dicking up the M16 on purpose so they wouldn't shut down the armories and M14 production.

>>32501484
The corrosion element was caused by a lack of chrome lining the barrel + tropical climate

>>32502034
And exacerbated by the lack of cleaning tools- most particularly, bore and chamber brushes.
My point was that the corrosive ammo bit is a meme.

>>32501244
Is that Stalone on the left?

>>32500608
This

>>32501132
This

He loses his shit and dies when he tries killing gooks with it

>>32501450
Thanks, looks like I got a whole new chunk of books to pick up. That Sterling with the grenade launcher is hilarious as fuck

>>32501444
Well not with that attitude anon

>>32500628
>.444
Fug, I have one. That shit ain't no joke.

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>>32507368
Fun fact, you can use the brass for .410 shotshells.

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>>32507909
>Using a fucking expensive case for .410

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>>32509243
You can also use .303 and 9.3x74R, brass is ideal for black powder loads. Probably get more reloads out of it than regular hulls.