Bullpup Advantages?

>>32495854
Better balance for one handed shooting

More efficient with longer barrels

>>32495854
A more compact design. That's why they were developed.

>>32495871
Wrong and Wrong.

All the weight in the back makes it harder to control when 'firing one handed' and as ops picture works they have the same length barrel.

>>32495871
>>32495879


To be honest there are more cons with the Bullpup design then there are pros.

They're still pretty cool though.

>>32495854
Easier to control muzzle rise

>>32495888
Have you actually fired a bullpup or are you just memeing?

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>>32495888
it really depends on the rifle in question. The actual performance advantages of most common-and-garden variety bullpups are indeed questionable, but combine the layout with advanced engineering and a pinch of magic and weird shit starts to happen.

>>32495893
Like? The only real con is having an inherently inferior trigger, which isn't even a big deal as a service rifle as grunts could care less.

>>32495871
>>32495879
>>32495893
>>32495903
Are bullpups are more ambidextrous compared to ARs?

>>32496338
lol, no

shit triggers

>>32495926
w... what is that?

>>32496338
No, with non-convertible bullpups if you try to shoot them left handed, brass hits you in the face.

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>>32496338
I shoot left-handed due to a strong left-eye dominance.

Imagine your cheek on the other side of this gun.

>>32496338
Debatable, basically all bullpups have swappable ejection ports or non conventional ejection ports and most have ambi charging handles and mag releases.
>>32496346
lmao
>>32496362
Non-convertable bullpups such as?

>>32495871
>Better balance for one handed shooting
under what circumstances would you ever be firing and above pistol sized firearm one handed?

>>32495871

Longer barrels for rifle of similar lenght- yes, but I would argue about the better balance. It is hell of a lot easier to get better balance with "traditional" rifle design.

Longer barrels is also only a thing if (terminal) ballistics of the cartridge (as with 5.56 NATO / .223 Rem) are really effected by it.

>>32496360
A old russian gun that somehow works on magic. It loads from the back and ejects out the front. Last I saw people here where trying to figure out how it worked exactly.

>>32496360
Bull-pup ak

>>32495854
more expensive, less ergonomic, worse trigger, non ambidextrous, awful to run suppressed

seems like there'd be more parts that could fail in a bullpup compared to a conventional platform

>>32496373
This is why the P90 is the best bullpup.

>>32496391
>non ambidextrous
lmao no
>less ergonomic
mostly subjective but generally they're pretty comfortable
>more expensive
Not really a complaint as OP is asking about the concept

>>32495926
How does that even work

>>32496338
Not inherently. The only thing a bullpup is, compared to a conventional rifle, is shorter. Some are more ambidextrous, some are less so.

>>32496375
the Bong SA80 family

>>32495854
You will never be able to sell them to the US

>>32495854
For some arcane reason, every military unit that 1. does their own procurement and 2. uses their weapons frequently buys non-bullpup weapons.

It is a mystery.

>>32496416
The Kel-Tec RDB and RFB, and FN F2000 also have unique ways of dealing with ambi ejection issues.

>>32496447
Yeah, it's called modularity and cost. That's why the AR15 is going to be the ONLY military arm for most nations in 30 years.

>>32496373
that particular design

p-90s eject from below.
fn-2000s eject from the front
im pretty sure some designs allow you to configure whether it ejects to the left or right

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>>32495854

It's way cooler

>>32496447
>one of the largest countries adopts the AR-15 and it becomes popular on the civilian market resulting in a huge market which companies follows suit to accommodate
If we adopted a bullpup instead of the AR, most companies would get on that train leading to large amounts of bullpup designs in the civilian market which would then lead to a large aftermarket and eventually other countries would get on the bullpup train as it would be more developed than conventional rifles on the market.

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>>32495854
The compact design is the real selling point, you can have a longer barrel with less overall length. Other than that theres not much, other than looking like a European or Israeli rather than an american.

I still prefer conventional, at 6'4 it feels more natural, and its not like im clearing rooms or anything.
But even if I were clearing rooms, give me an HK416 over a tavor any day.

>>32495854
they piss off fudds.

>>32496603
Pretty sure any modern semi auto military rifle does.

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>>32496338
Depends. The P90 and F2000 are some of the most ambidextrous weapons today.

On the other hand, the AUG hates anyone on the wrong side of its ejection port, and you have to pay like, $200 or something for the left-hand modified bolt. Once you have your AUG setup for left-handed use, it hates righties just as much.

One thing I've noticed is that when you mention bullpups on /k/, the shitposters instantly substitute it for AUG. The ejection port shooting brass into the faces of southpaws is mostly an AUG issue. Complaints about the ergos always mention AUG specific issues.

I mean, look at this. >>32496391

This guy is conflating every bullpup with the AUG (and probably Tavor) and comparing it to the AR-15. Shit like the P90 and bullpup shotguns are more or less addressed as their own things.

It's annoying because its like watching someone air all the grievances they have with, say, Glocks, against all semi-automatic pistols.

>>32496375
>Debatable, basically all bullpups have swappable ejection ports or non conventional ejection ports and most have ambi charging handles and mag releases.
I guess that's why bong military literally forces everyone to shoot right handed.

>>32496883
>>32496435
Bong rifle wasn't a very good design, and I forgot about it.
>MOST bullpups have swappable ejection ports or non conventional ejection ports and have ambi charging handles and mag releases.
Better?

>>32496883
The L85 is a piece of shit that will knock teeth out.
The majority of bullpups are thankfully designed by people smart enough to not put a reciprocating charging handle next to your face. Outside the AUG (which can be configured to eject to either side) most bullpups can be worked from either shoulder with no difficulty.

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>>32496338

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>>32496388
we figured it out long time ago

>>32496390
no

>>32495888
nice meme poorshit

>>32496974
>oh look it's this shitpost again

>>32496354
bench queen problems

literally nothing wrong with bullpups as far as combat rifles go

>>32497070
Yes but where does the vodka go?

>>32497157
in your mouth

>>32496944
You're a fucking retard. Knock your teeth out? Fire it right-handed you spastic.

>>32496500
I've always wondered if swapping out the barrels on that effects the zero on it

>>32495871
no guns here but arent bullpups all back heavy?

>>32497246
only if you arent shouldering it properly

>>32497246
they are more balanced to carry at low ready

The barrel is fore weight
Mag and action are rear weight

But when firing they suffer muzzle climb far worse as the lack of fore weight means you need to fight the muzzle down

>>32496493

P90 reload is dildos and the action is not suited to anything more powerful than a pistol cartridge

F2000 and RFB reliability suffers because of the front-ejection chute

The RDB system seems to have the best possible system for a bullpup but I don't know how reliable it actually is.

>>32497317
>F2000 and RFB reliability suffers because of the front-ejection chute
[Citation Needed]

>>32496974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BASgtPpYfF0

MAC guy helped out with the last revision of the RFB and he claims it's pretty nice now.

>>32496379

Teal'c

>>32495854
You can replace submachine guns and service rifles with one weapon system. Also balances well with an underbarrel grenade launcher

>>32496493
>tfw no F2000

>>32495940

You have the put the receiver up against your fucking face. If it explodes, you lose your damn face.

>>32496419

>Steyr Aug
>Tavor

Are you autistic

>>32498244
But has this happened?

>>32498244
don't buy a shit rifle then, idiot

>>32496974
I used to have a version of this that said something like "I wish I was at home with my Tavor"

>>32497277
>when firing they suffer muzzle climb far worse

That's on full auto, right? I've never had that issue firing on semi.

>>32498262
What are you referring to?

>>32495926
does that have like a thing that shoots back and strips rounds which are then slung forward and then the bolt comes up and locks in? that's the only way I could see it working for shit without ejecting upward.

>>32495854
well one major disadvantage when talking about military rifles, if some poor guy has a catastrophic it will be right next to his face causing much more damage then a standard rifle.

>>32496500
I love the design on the AUG. It was certainly designed ground-up for being bullpup, with few if any traditional leftovers. I have couple nitpicks with the execution though, like a metal trigger group instead of plastic would be better, and the reciever behind the bolt seems longer than it needs to be

>>32497234
Different barrels have different zeros. You can remove and reattach the same barrel with a good degree of accuracy though

Bullpups only offer unsupported firing. It hinders the ability to take supported accurate shots.

Even if they were such a great cqb platform Delta would be using them, but they're not. There's nothing a bullpup can give you that a 10" barrel can't, and that is impossible for a 14" barrel to handle.

>>32497222
Try to fire it from the left shoulder, dipshit.
What the fuck do you think ambidextrous means?
Jesus christ the average poster on /k/ is dogshit stupid.

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>>32497116

>Not knowing proper balance.

>>32496391
Whats the problem with running them suppressed? If anything a suppressor wouldn't make it too long because it's already short, and might just improve the balance

>>32497317
>>32497371
I know if you need to clear a jam on the F2000 there's a door for it
I haven't ever handled a RFB so I don't know if it's got a system for that

>>32496599
5'9 manlet here. I wonder if that's why a lot of shirt euros and israelis use it? I mean I would take a long barrel over a short one, and a shorter weapon would be more unwieldy for me. The thing that would annoy me is loading behind the trigger hand. That would really jostle my jimbobs in the beginning, and it seems harder to reload quickly

>>32497234

The impact shift is very minimal. It's probably more noticeable with newer optics though. The A1 scope is mainly meant to hit man sized targets so it's hard to get an exact zero or see impact shifts.

>>32496375

L85A2 isn't swappable. It's right hand only.

Can easily be remedied by telling your leftie that he's on Minimi duty and he either quits or lumps it.

>>32495854

More compact design.
Better barrel control.
More barrel for the length of the rifle which allows you either to have a longer barrel and thus better ballistics or a shorter weapon at no loss of range or effectiveness.

There's literally no 'disadvantage' to having a modern bullpup. Yes they had teething issues but so did every rifle ever introduced.

The only real idiot move was the L85A2 not being able to swap the ejector port so lefties can use it but that's easily remedied by giving your poor left handed cunt the LMG and laughing as his inferiority makes him suffer more.

I've shot a tavor and have handeld an AUG
not for me at all, shit weight, weird ergos, crap triggers, bad suppression, unbalanced as fuck, harder to shoot, less accurate too.
Some of them are picky with mags also.
Just not my type of rifle, I can see the benefits of being in a car a lot and using one but nothing else, give me an SBR AR over one any day

>>32501460
>handeld
woops

>>32496338
>slap slap slap slap slap slap
Yeah I love em

>>32497317
>The RDB system seems to have the best possible system for a bullpup but I don't know how reliable it actually is.
It is awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQRUl_iFEA
Action is open from all sides.

>>32501485
it's kel tech what do you expect

>>32498265
>>32498266
>>32498244
Only issue is if you're taking in dirty ammo, ala vietnamese ammo courtesy of the USA.

Singapore got spooked, and put a kevlar plate on their rifles.

>>32501485
Wow, it's as reliable as a sig p226

>>32501460
>less accurate

pls go home

>>32496373
Then shoot right handed. Eye dominance is not a real thing.

>>32501766
>x95 3 moa gun
I can buy a 500 dollar ar with the same accuracy and spend 200 bucks and make it even more accurate
you go home

>>32499511
It's even worse with an M4, though. The bold flies straight into your face.

>>32501485
>Mud test
Here fishy fishy fishy.

>>32496944
The L85, leftie-hating ergonomics aside, was a good rifle.

The L85a1 was awful. The L85 proved itself adequate, but the powers that be wanted it cheaper. The a1 was just that, cheaper, and suffered for it.

The L85a2 is a good rifle, much improved over the a1. At the very least I never had any problems with any I was issued.

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>>32495854
They look sexy as fuck

>>32497389
Bong Hasguns here. Would buy one of those in .22lr or straightpull if they came out.

>>32501345
>The only real idiot move was the L85A2 not being able to swap the ejector port so lefties can use it but that's easily remedied by giving your poor left handed cunt the LMG and laughing as his inferiority makes him suffer more.

This forever and a day. Many, many keks were had at his expense, poor cunt was ginger!

>>32500021

What you're posting is not balance, that's continuous recoil. And it completely different from balance. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

>>32501345
>>32502114
is tormenting lefties a specifically british armed forces thing, I see it come up all the damn time when the brits are discussed

or is it just because you have that idiotic rifle

>>32502123
More of a British thing that an armed forces thing really I think.

>>32496802
The new f90 AUGs have a brass deflector that alleviates this problem.

>>32501787
>Eye dominance is not a real thing.
When you have as large a discrepancy as I do, you can confirm it's a real thing. I shot billiards and shit as a kid left handed without realizing until someone pointed it out. It was just so natural I didn't even notice. My optometrist, with all his scans, photos, and internal pics of my eyeball - and I supposed being a doctor helps - can confirm that my left eye is vastly dominant over my right eye. When I was a kid I was supposed to wear this eye patch thing over my left eye in the evenings when doing what I do - watching cartoons, drawing, whatever so my right eye got off its ass and stopped relying on the left one. I didn't listen and now here we are. It's weird though, it feels totally natural to do some things left handed and totally natural for most things right handed, just depends on the thing.

Anyway, I can confirm that you're wrong. Eye dominance is a real thing.

>>32502955

I have a tiny scratch on my right eye due to deflection of unburnt/lateburning powder against the bottom of my cap & got behind my glasses. Freak accident really. Not very annoying in every day life unless I'm reading a lot and my eyes get tired.

But in shooting it becomes really noticeable, so I shoot rifles lefty.

Eye dominance is certainly a thing.

The only legitimate reason for having a bullpup is that it forces the shooter to fire from the shoulder so that troops will use aimed fire instead of spray&pray. This means that the bullpup should ONLY be used as a field rifle and is entirely inadequate as an assault rifle. Using a bullpup in close quarters does not work because it forces the shooter to use a sling to hold it at ready level and shoot at hip level. People who know nothing about guns think it is good as an assault rifle because its so compact. But being compact does nothing if the gun is unbalanced.

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>>32496360
TKB-022PM, Korobov's magnum opus. It competed against the AKM for adoption in the Red Army. It demonstrated excellent performance during testing but there were concerns about whether the polyphenolic resin shell could handle harsh abuse and decades of storage, so the project was shelved.

seeing as how they eventually made AK magazines out of the same material, their concerns were completely unfounded.

>>32496431
>>32498414
see >>32497070

the extractor doubles as a bullet ram that forces rounds forward into place. The bolt itself moves vertically upwards once a round is chambered. After the gun is fired, the bolt swings back down, the extractor pulls the spent casing backwards and sends it into an ejection tube that runs on top of the barrel. The cycle then repeats itself.

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>>32495854

>>32497142
Wrong.

>>32495854
Pros
>shorter length makes easier to conceal
>easier to transport
>easier to use in cqc
>easier fire from a vehicle
>more accurate and often more powerful than smgs used in similar circumstances
>easier to hold for prolonged periods of time
>easier to shoot single handed
>
>looks cool I guess
Cons
>AUGs are awful to shoot offhanded, P90 compromises by ejecting brass from the bottom, why don't all guns
>harder to clear jams
>some people say harder to reload from prone
>harder to clean

Overall they are great guns, I'd use them for urban and cqc, hell, even an hd weapon, especially the P90 (granted it was sbr), but even if I did fill out all the paperwork for an sbr, it would be $1700, at least, secondhand. For now I'll stick to my shtf akm

>>32503932
>seeing as how they eventually made AK magazines out of the same material, their concerns were completely unfounded.

I disagree. A magazine doesn't have a reciprocating bolt slamming back and forth inside it like the shell of that gun would have had. The magazine would experience far less harsh and possibly damaging forces.
Also if you damage a mag you throw it away and get another one. If you damage the shell of your gun it might stop working or worse fragment and throw shards of resin in all directions possibly hurting the shooter and anyone nearby.
I think their concerns were quite well founded.

>>32503857
I don't see your point there...
>spray and pray
Ok, I got trolled.

>>32495854
Better to have when entering small enclosed spaces.

>>32504870
>I don't see your point there...
I know, I used clear simple language and made unambiguous points, I can see why you would so bewildered

>spray and pray
>Ok, I got trolled.
wow, Ive been defeated by british 'logic' in a british troll thread

>>32495888
>All the weight in the back makes it harder to control when 'firing one handed' and as ops picture works they have the same length barrel.
Guess how I know you've never fired a rifle with that weight distribution?

>>32495888
>I don't have shoulders

>>32495854
bullpup pros:
shorter, but of course not shorter than a rifle with a folded stock in transport
bullpup cons:
non adjustable stock and shittier ergonomics overall

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>>32495888

Sorry but I'm not putting my face right next to the chamber on any gun.

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>>32496338
>Are bullpups are more ambidextrous compared to ARs?

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I want a Groza

The 7.62x39 version, not the autistic 9x39

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>Muh length!
Get an SBR. Also learn how to properly clear corners, sling up, stop being a nitpicky bitch and realize 3" isn't that big of a deal (M4 vs L85 for example), and so on.

>But muh fragmentation!
Get better ammo or a new caliber (Mk318, M855A1, 6.8, etc.)

>Muh balance!
Most AR's balance at or behind the mag well, and SBR's tend to be too rear heavy for me (which is personal preference), especially when you bolt shit on top of the gun, but if you *REALLY* want a rear-heavy gun, get a heavier stock, a lighter forend, etc.

>Muh balance! Part 2:
Bullpups suck shit in awkward positions, especially the meme length ones that have you all scrunched up on your gun. When you're running, learn how to cradle the weapon better instead of running like a moron without supporting the weight of any rifle/carbine/etc. you're using.

>Muh balance! Part 3
No adjustable LOP, which is a deal breaker for some, and the ones that do have it often are horrendously too long.

>M-Muh...
I find it strange that nearly all world champs and other practitioners of 2 and 3 gun matches tend to all use AR's or AK's, as well as special forces from many bullpup-using countries tend to use AR's, plus the fact that bullpups are getting replaced or at least supplimented by conventional-style rifles in France, Britain, China, and others.

>M....
What's even MORE interesting is that for all the bullpup designs that have been proposed over the years, even dating back to WW2 (Model 45A), the SPIW projecy, bullpup concepts for the FAL, and so on, they never really gained traction, and when the did (AUG, SA80 family, FAMAS, Tavor, QBZ, etc.), they're STILL not as good as conventional weapons.

>...
Going back to this point: Why is it that countries that use bullpups (Russia, Israel, France, UK, etc.), have conventional rifles in large numbers? If the bullpup were really the wave of the future and so advantages in every conceivable way, why aren't there more of them?

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>>32507164

Other than that, I could be wrong, who knows. Maybe bullpups will be adopted en masse in the future. Perhaps in fancy LSAT calibers or .264 USA? Or maybe something more normal like 6.8 or 6.5...?

>>32507164
Modularity and accessories are the answer to half your post. Everything revolves around the AR15 now in terms of aftermarket, so that's what everyone is going to go with. Remember all those proprietary magazines and accessories you'd see with milsurp rifles? Yeah, that's expensive and time consuming to develope. In a world where less and less attention (and money) is paid to small arms, it's going be increasingly common to just take the most workable solution from the commercial market. Doesn't matter if it's actually better or not, just has to be good enough.

>>32495871
perfect for a sniper rifle

>>32507164
>Why is it that countries that use bullpups (Russia, Israel, France, UK, etc.), have conventional rifles in large numbers?
A whole lot of "good enough". Russia has lots of surplus an aversion to fielding anything too outlandish. France and the UK made garbage bullpups so the traditional rifles are better there. The Tavor is relatively new so Israeli is still phasing it in, still using old surplus.
China is still mostly bullpup. There's no way to tell if they actually plan on implementing their traditional layout QBZ-03 or if it's just traditional-fudds or political BS or what, their government is too closed to tell.
Australia is doing well with their AUG/F88. It was decent at the beginning but now it's pretty good a few versions later.

What bullpup is the best for entry level? FS2000 is hard to find and Tavor blows hot gasses in your face.

>>32507422
That's a shit response. Nearly every bullpup has RAILZ compatible with modern accessories. They accept "modern" mags. And as for modularity, nobody really uses that outside of the commercial market. Conventional weapons are just better.

>>32508420

Some might interpret that as "bullpups aren't as advantageous as some make it seem" on the other hand.

Even when given the choice of "good" bullpups, many units simply don't take them, with even Merk Gunner saying some units got Tavors but didn't like them as much as their old AR's for example (IIRC, he, or someone else had said that even Israeli special forces like using AR's instead of Tavors, even if you'd think "muh extreme CQB" and "muh tunnels" would be "better suited" to bullpups). Another example is Australia's SASR, and other units, using AR pattern weapons even with, what I agree, is a good weapon in the AUG. Maybe that'll change with the Atrax?

Furthermore, it's not as if countries that are replacing or supplementing their bullpups with conventional weapons didn't have solicitations or couldn't look at existing weapons and said "we want a bullpup since they're so amazing", in any role. They could've ordered bullpup DMR's, IAR's, etc., but they didn't if though there are offerings out there that they could've gotten at similar prices, or at least been justified in "spending a bit more for MUH BULLPUP AWESOMENESS".

Not everything is designed to do everything, everything has it's intended purposes (can you believe people complain that JLTV's can't fit internally on Chinooks and that they aren't parachute rated yet? They weren't even fucking intended to do that shit in the first place so of fucking course they can't! ...Sorry, work-related stresses are leaking through...), I don't think many (well, you know...) would disagree, but the AR comes damn close to doing it, as you say, and in many situations, simple doctrinal/tactical/etc. changes are all that is required for AR's to be effective in near any role, roles you'd think bullpups would shine, so it just seems to me, based on all that's happening with bullpups and what we've been talking about ITT, there's next to no future, or little outside of niche applications, for bullpups.

Pro:

Its short.

Con:

Everything else.

The best bullpup Ive ever messed with was the X95. And id still much rather have an AR.

>>32508649

(2/2)

I could be wrong, as I said. Though, with police forces, competition shooters, special forces, and so on throughout the world choosing conventional patterns, I can't help but be skeptical of bullpups.

Again, that all may change. I'm waiting to get my hands on the MDR if it's ever released to maybe change my opinion where the X95, original Tavor, AUG, and PS90 (personal protection my ass, just get a folding SMG or some shit with AP ammo, way more concealable...) have failed to. I kind of like the RDB and KSG though, but that's another matter... (I'd try and get an FS2000, but they're literally unobtanium around my area for some reason, unless I'm just not looking hard enough...)

I think they have great potential, but just aren't quite "there" yet. (Seriously, tweak the promises of the MDR, RDB, etc. with some of that sexy LSAT ammunition, or just put it in 6.5, 6.8, or .264 USA, with some fancy optics, and you just might have a winner...) Until then though....

>>32508512

Not disagreeing, just wanting to point out that I think his point is more that the AR is much MORE modular than most any current bullpup. Lowers, uppers, rails, stocks, optics, calibers, etc. are damn near endless for AR's, but let's see a bullpup go from 5.56 to .300 Win, try lightening up or balancing out a bullpup without changing the overall weapon or making it fuckheavy, or so on.

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>>32495854
It's the future.

>>32508498

I can't seem to find FS2000's either, and if you're not feeling the Hebrew Hammer, I'd say try and get an RDB if you can find them, or scout out online for an AUG, though that's probably a bit more expensive. RFB's are nice too if you like real fuckin' NATO powah.

>>32508674

Speakin' of the Gas Chamber...

It's either just me, or it's really that damn unbalanced, but every Tavor (original and X95) I've ever handled is horrendously rear-heavy, moreso than I'd expect from a bullpup. It's just my personal preference, but even on my Mk.18 clones and the like, I try and keep the COB near the magwell. It's not a huge problem, just a pet peeve of mine I suppose. I like putting pads on my Garand and AR10's (more specifically my SR25) though, so maybe I'm just built weird. (I'm only 5'10" though)

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>>32508782
yep

>>32508782

I can do that with my AR, what's that webm supposed to prove?

(Putting an UBR on a Mk.18 was a mistake)

>Obligatory "If they're the future, why are bullpup-countries dumping them for AR's hurdydurr"

The only reason the Australian Defence Force doesn't have AR's as the primary weapon system is because Colt refused to sell the rights to allow the Lithgow Arms Factory to manufacture them. The Commandos use the HK416 and the SASR use M4's, but thats SF so they don't count.

Fun fact! The "F90" is actually called the EF88 (enhanced F88) because the government didn't put out a tender to other firearms manufacturers before agreeing to adopt the new rifle. This could be grounds for other companies to sue, but if you call it "enhanced" it is not a new weapon system, just a different model.

>>32508846
> can do this with imaginary automatic AR you don't have.
Lets see it then.

>>32508859

I'll be interested to try the Atrax when it's available. As I've said above, not a real big fan of bullpups, but I like the AUG well enough, so maybe it'll sway me?

(I'd try to say I'm biased against bullpups because I grew up firing long and heavy weapons so I must have an automatic bias against "tiny fragile non-fudd (don't you fucking dare call M1-sama or M-14-chan fudd guns) toys", but considering I love my SBR's, that can't be the case...)

Quick aside; I've only ever shot 150 grain stuff out of my 1903's, would going heavier be harmful in any way? There's some 175 grain stuff I was eyeing up, but I'm afraid of damaging certain 1903's of mine. (Sentimental value and all that)

>>32508896

>Recording your funs for the gubment

Nice try ATF, but have these instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrJqLJovUwE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THHCHRRKrQE

>>32502003
is that a famas?

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AUG is GOAT

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>Bullpup advantages
This thing

>>32495854
Heavier rifle means can hammer in tent poles with it more easily, un-adjustable stock helps for this too.

Shitty trigger gives a better dispersion pattern in situations where long range area fire is desired. Can aim at one place and bullets just naturally fall all around (larger beaten area).

Mis-location of controls means ergonomics has to be trained and noobs can't or don't want to use. If bullpup weapon is captured the enemy can't benefit from it.

Picks on lefties - straight bonus

>>32509091

You can apparently use AR's as step ladders. Stand on the magwell to get a boost over a wall if your squadmates are lazy asses I guess.

>>32508801
I'm looking for ambidexterity and being able to pull the gun out of a truck easily so I'll take a look. The Tavor went off my list since I didn't like the Jews trying to get revenge for the Holocaust every time I took a shot.

>>32505818
>but muh balance

jesus all these faggots spouting fuddlore in this thread. it's as bad as the
>M16A1 got american soldiers killed
meme

fuck stop talking about shit you've never handled. This is a great example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

>>32509174

>The Tavor went off my list since I didn't like the Jews trying to get revenge for the Holocaust every time I took a shot.

Kek. I tried suppressing mine. Didn't do it twice.

The RDB and RFB are pretty decent in regards to bullpup ambidexterity. The RDB is right about 27" OAL, and the RFB a touch over 26" IIRC, so they'd make pretty decent truck guns if that's your cup of tea. Got an SBR 6.8 (yeah yeah, snowflake gucci blah blah, heard it already) in my car I like, and even extended to ~30" (I like longer LOP) it's pretty handy, so no doubts one of lel kek's offerings would suit you. I wouldn't personally put an AUG in a car though, just because of some stories about the stocks being fragile. Not sure how true that is, but I'm easily paranoid.

>>32508498
>Entry level
There isn't one. The RDB will be the cheapest though, and it takes all manner of AR15 mags. After that, I'd say the AUG. The FS2000 isn't imported anymore.
>>32508512
A few inches of bolt on picitinny doesn't make it as adaptable or modular as an AR. Or hell, how about spare parts? Anyone, in any nation, can go online and find about a billion different parts for AR rifles, almost all of them interchangeable across all platforms (except for things like pistons and shit for piston driven rifles, but you get my point). Even the Russians and Chinese are trying as hard as they can to copy as much into their rifles from the AR as possible, because they like the modularity and price point.

Military procurement places cost first, and performance second. Never look at the adoption of a system or a weapon as proof of superior performance but rather marketing and price.

>>32508846
You could also put a gun in your mouth and kill yourself.

>>32509527

Sorry memepups suck so hard friendo :^)

>>32506386
WTF, this is real? I thought it was just a silly gun the developers of STALKER made up.

I want one

>>32509657
>STALKER made up.

Everything in STALKER is of true, Comrade.

Vodka curing radiation? Absolutely true for example.

Don't ever question STALKER.

>>32496379
When I'm using my other hand groping your mom/sister/"girlfriend" while spraying lead at you.

>>32507164
your gf said my extra 3" made all the difference

>>32508984
>doesn't do one continous full-auto magdump

>>32495888
>hey have the same length barrel.
nice non sequitur, I r8 banana/bottle

>>32501787
It is tho
I don't have any pictures to prove to you, but I fired off two mags from a 10/22 which were all very consistently in two spots, one on the bullseye, one about three inches left of the bullseye

>>32495871
>Better balance
This is why I don't ask /k/ anything
Because you get retards like this giving out shit information

>>32508984
Boy you sure demonstrated how easy those 16" barreled ARs are to shoot one handed, they aren't sacrificing any barrel length to make the weight and balance more manageable in those one handed examples or anything!

>>32511562

>Muh goalposts

>>32512593

Boy, it's sure good for you that there's no sort of lightweight barrels, forends, heavier stocks, muzzle brakes, and so on for AR's to totally destroy your argument, guess you got me huh?

>>32512593
>16" barreled ARs

Stay retarded nigga, SBR master race.

See >>32507164

There's little benefit to longer barrels in the context we're talking anymore. Even out of a 10.5" barrel, Mk318 or 6.8 still get the job done. (Just getting this out of the way in advance; Don't even try and start the "muh long barrel accuracy!" crap, as you'll instantly discredit yourself)

A 9 pound AUG is significantly easier to hold up to your shoulder one handed for long periods than a 6 pound 16 inch AR.
Source: I have tried. The weight in the back is much easier to hold up than the weight out front.
Muzzle rise between them is very similar, the AR is heavier out front, but also generally has a shorter length of pull and sticks out way further from your body. If you put the same muzzle brake they have very similar muzzle drift.

>>32513061
>SBR master race
Wait, what if someone made... stay with me here, an SBR bullpup?

>>32512962
The AR is a uniquely lightweight rifle which makes this whole thing more managable, but
>lightweight barrels
sacrificing sustained fire performance
>forends
yep, but could be equally applied to bullpups
>heavier stocks
hurr adding weight instead of subtracting in order to balance
>muzzle brakes
equally as effective on bullpups or conventional rifles
But the bullpup is still better in this regard. Just look at the cranked wrist angle in that video. Yes it's doable, but it's sure a hell of a lot more doable with most bullpups.

In broad strokes, ARs are good, bullpups are conceptually neat but still poorly executed

>>32495940
Not if the trigger can be placed wherever you want if it's an electric fired gun . How about an ergonomic design where you can plat the electric switch anywhere you want. Even on your cock flexing muscles or PC in the case of girls.

>>32495903
Especially on blow forward designs and where the entire receiver travels on a slide.

>>32496362
What if the ejection port was downward ?

>>32505372
>>32503857

Remember me, spay and pray is to empty your magazine from cover without your target in proper sight?
Why wouldn't one be able to should a bullpup from somewhere else than shoulder?
No bullpup force you to use a sling to hold it ready since good ones have their point of balance right up your firein hand.
So what's the point?

>>32495940
This can be fixed by placing the sear close to the trigger, like the RFB.

>>32517164
>spay and pray is to empty your magazine from cover without your target in proper sight?
I guess youve watched enough Rambo and Vietnam movies that your meme level of knowledge of spray&pray has made you an expert, but if you actually talk to trained soldiers you would understand that there are different levels of control of fire that soldiers maintain at different ranges, the one at the shortest range is described as spray&pray

>Why wouldn't one be able to should a bullpup from somewhere else than shoulder?
law of physics
>No bullpup force you to use a sling to hold it ready since good ones have their point of balance right up your firein hand.
find a video of you shooting a bullpup at full auto holding the rifle at your side, simple newtonian physics prevents someone firing a rifle held at center and forward center from preventing muzzle flip compared to someone holding it behind and ahead of center

>since good ones have their point of balance right up your firein hand.
also you are using the Steyr AUG as an example of 'good ones', the action of the AUG is highly irregular, much lighter than average, and the action sits wedged in a molded platic stock which means it doesnt have the rigidity that a serious field rifle would require. Sorry, but you bought into the space-rifle meme, but go ahead and keep using it

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>>32495854

>>32509032
I've been out of the lingo loop for a while. The fuck does GOAT mean?

>>32520331

Gayfag
Operators
Anally
Teasing

>>32520331
Greatest of all time

>>32520425
Okay, cool

>>32502003
chimas

>>32502955
Close your left eye when shooting.

Having used both the Steyr (lots of time on it) and the M4 (qualifying shoots), the M4 feels and shoots way nicer. But that could just because it feels fresh.

>>32496802

what would it take to make a bullpup be able to spit cases towards the ground like a p90?

or would it just be too complicated / expensive to do that?

>>32520531
Which would you rather be in a firefight with?

>>32520670

I don't have any field time with the M4 and I'm super POG so I couldn't really say with any great authority.

My mind says the M4 is the better system but I'm more confident with my drills etc on the Steyr

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It's important that we don't forget just how much of a weak fucking sister 5.56 out of a short barrel is. 5.56mm M855 ammunition is optimized for a 20" barrel with a 1:7 twist. It is not surprising that its greatest velocity of 2979 ft/sec is obtained in a 20" barrel. After all, Stoner designed the cartridge for the 20" barrel.

Decreased velocity with barrels much shorter than 14.5" (the M4 carbine barrel) have a number of unwanted effects. Lowered linear velocity produces lower rotational velocity, which will result in diminished gyroscopic stability of the bullet. It will also result in significantly decreased projectile kinetic energy, decreased ability to generate a significant would channel, and will reach a point of diminishing returns where lethality of the round definitely comes into question. Once you go below 11", muzzle velocity nose dives. M855 bullets traveling below 2500 fps when impacting a target will not produce a lethal wound channel. On the graph, anything below the red line is shit).

Secondly, with shorter barrels, tuning of the gas port for weapon cycling becomes more critical. Adding a suppressor, which does slightly increase bore pressure, will result in more erratic and forceful cycling of the weapon leading to earlier weapon failure. It is also apparent that the pressure near the barrel rises exponentially with less barrel length, which necessitates that suppressors on shorter barrel weapons be designed to handle much higher pressures. The M4 does use appropriate suppressors, but many casual gun owners may put themselves at risk by putting one of those on a 10.5 inch barrel AR.

In short, there has been a cultural shift from the 20-inch barrel length in AR-15/M16 weapon systems chambered for 5.56 to progressively shorter barrels for the purpose of producing an increasingly more compact assault weapon without resorting to a bullpup design. This causes problems with sound and lethality. If you don't want those problems, just use a bullpup.

>>32520841
What's a POG?

>>32508498
the tavor is worth it
i have an original and its not that bad

>>32508859
so the ef88 is not a steyr weapon?

>>32495926
i want to throw up

>>32521154
Person other than grunt