In a 1 on 1 war who would win, Nazi germany in its prime

>>32421378
WWII-era Germany, no question.
Modern Germany has almost no civilian gun ownership, their military is almost nonexistant, and they refuse to fund, equip, or train said almost non-extant military to the point that some of their infantry have not only never fired a rifle, but have never even held a loaded gun.

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>>32421378
>who would win?
das juden

>>32421595
You might literally be retarded.

Literally how would WWII Germany deal with Modern Germany's superior tanks and air force?

>>32421378
Modern Germany immediately gains air superiority to a hilarious extent
All nazi tanks obliterated from the air
All nazi soldiers bombed to hell

>>32421714
Not enough bombs, missiles or shells. The modern US had its ordinance supply stretched to the breaking point by the low intensity wars in the mideast. How the hell would Merkal-Land have enough to combat one of the greatest land powers in history?

>>32421595
>civilian gun ownership

lmao

Yeah that will be the tipping point vs a 70 year tech gap

Holy shit who thought this was fair? I'm assuming we don't just drop them both in the same place- otherwise, Nazi Germany overlaps Modern Day Germany and they both undergo mutual annihilation, destroying civilization as we know it.

Now, assuming some arbitrary set-up, say, they're both put on a landmass that resembles Europe, a hundred miles away from one another? Man, I just don't see how the fuck Nazi Germany is gonna compete with complete lack of air superiority, armor so incredibly advanced compared to what they have it might well be magic, tactical out-matching thanks to the leaps and bounds in infantry weaponry and kit, and communications that allow an OODA loop any Wehrmacht general would've sacrificed his son to Satan for. Right off the fucking bat, Nazi Germany is gonna get fucking reamed when all their production capability is destroyed by precision bombs from planes they can't hope to shoot down. Entire armored columns are going to be obliterated similarly, or by artillery that's going to be entirely uncontested once it counter-snipes Nazi arty. Nazi Kraut with his little bolt-action rifle is going to have his head sent fucking spinning by the sheer volume of lead a modern rifle can spit out, and flabbergasted further by the survivability of a modern soldier. This is fucking cruel.

>>32421692
>das juden
>das
NEIN!

>>32421746
This. You can have over half a century tech gap as 32421769 mentions, but modern Germany simply can't field and equip enough soldiers or fly enough missions to halt the blitzkrieg before it reaches across the whole country.

>Holy shit who thought this was fair?

Probably a kid from /pol/ who thinks the Nazis were the most powerful nation ever and modern germans are weak "cucks"

>>32421786
i don't know about that, they can barely handle ISIS who hasent even reached half the military power of Nazi Germany.

they may have superior planes, but could they handle thousends of luftwaffle?

Nazi germany seems larger but with crappier tech.

>>32421378

I wouldn't find it surprising if a significant chunk of the modern Heer defected because they'd much rather fight for people who supported them than those who moaned at their attempts to defend them.

>Implying they wouldn't just join forces and purge the fuck of out some juden.

>>32421850
Bigger ain't shit when your enemy can strike with impunity and act within your own OODA loop several times over. The only damn thing Nazi Germany could feasibly try is a full-on Zerg Rush, but we don't try those anymore for a good reason: machine guns fuck hordes of men. Nazi Germany is going to have blitzkrieg re-defined for them as a much faster, stronger, and well-coordinated enemy attacks wherever they want, as they please, and absolutely crushes any ranks they could possibly form on any battlefield.

>>32421864
>weapons from defects reverse engineered by Nazi geniuses and mass produced and improved by Nazi industrial might.

>>32421712

By actually having functioning shit.

>>32421850
If the nazis were all emotionless robots who moved relentlessly until death maybe.

Would probably be some severe moral issues when trying to deal with seemingly immortal tanks.

>In a 1 on 1 war who would win, Nazi germany in its prime or modern day germany?
If they both had their own respective Germanies? Probably Nazi Germany, once they've infiltrated modern Germany, done some wholesale industrial espionage, and closed the technology gap.

>>32421712

As the recent conflict in Turkey has shown, the Leo2's armor is a meme and would do nothing to protect it agianst either aerial attack, anti-tank mines, or even the heavier WW2 anti-tank guns from the size. What few tanks Modern!Germany had would be eaten by attrition faster than the Tigers themselves.

>>32421378
How is that even a question faggot?

WWII Germany, assuming that it's Germany's military in the state it stands right this second of course. If Germany was given a few months to beef up their defenses and enlist the support of their allies then obviously WWII Germany would be beyond fucked.
>>32421712
By having easily ten times the sheer manpower, weaponry, and vehicles they have?

It doesn't matter if they're a little outdated, 10000 men with MG42's, Panzers, and Mausers defeat 1500 with Leopards and G36's every time.

>>32422062
What is it with idiots believing that if a tank is not literally invincible its useless?

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>>32421378
Everyone today compared to their WWII era counterpart comes up wanting. We're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots now.

>>32422129
Because they know nothing beyond CoD

Nazi Germany. Modern Germany is full of multiculti cuckolds.

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>All these Naziboos grasping at the false hope that an archaic military force can stand up to a modern one that is vastly technologically more advanced by over 70 years

True, modern Germany would get it's teeth kicked in just by the sheer numbers but in the end they'd win out I think.

>>32421769
What if it was Germany-Modern vs. Germany-Retro insurgency?

Nazis for sure. I don't think the Bund has literally enough tank shells and AT weapons to fight off the entirety of 1943 Germany's tank battalions. What are their infantry going to do, spit at the Nazi infantry? And again I literally don't think the German Air Force has enough missiles rockets and 20mm shells to shoot down literally all of the Messerschmitts.

>>32422129
What is it with idiots thinking that 410 modern tanks could defeat 25752 Panzers and Tigers?*

I don't know if you can do math or not, but that's a force 62 times larger than modern day Germany's.

*source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tanks_in_World_War_II

>>32422221
They didn't have all of those at once.

>>32422204
>one on one fight
You do realize that Germany won't be receiving any aid from foreign countries in OP scenario, right?

I don't think modern germany could win a war of attrition against Nazi Germany, but that might be just because I assume that the scenario was that modern day Germany maintains it's borders and tech as is while all of the rest of the territory occupied by Nazi Germany is reverted back to the way it was at the peak of Nazi Germany.

>>32422245
Obviously not, but I think it's safe to say that at Nazi Germany's peak they still had a military and armored vehicle force that was easily (and this is an extremely conservative estimate) 10 times the size of Germany today.

>>32422142
The only modern country that has an easy chance to defeat its WWII self is the US. Other nations have become too weak.

>>32422142
Any country that has nukes, military satellites, radio communication, and missiles would stomp their WWII counterpart.

>>32422272
Britain and Frrance could probably nuke their 1940's selves.

>>32422272

Modern France, even in its current state, is still a major leg up from WW2 France. At least they'd know not to make the same mistake twice.

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>>32422204

*cough*

You mean, the country in which half the population is rocking themselves to sleep in their safe space because they just lost an election?

Yeah.

>>32422321

Few hundred farmers? Roodypoo we were killing them by the hundred thousands. The overall outcome was less than ideal for the US, but the north had more than a 'few hundred farmers'

>>32422331
>You mean, the country in which half the population is rocking themselves to sleep in their safe space because they just lost an election?
...no, I don't think he does.

Because Germany didn't just have an election...

>>32422321
>Who would win?
>An incompetent group of rice farmers supported by US troops who can only perform operations in Southern Vietnam for fear or starting World War III?
>A few hundred thousand communist gooks backed by the American media, China, and the entirety of the Soviet Union who had one of two of their major fighting forces (the Viet Cong) utterly destroyed in the Tet Offensive but managed to take over South Vietnam after uneducated Americans demanded the US exited the war due to a perceived loss?

>>32422360
Oops, I meant to quote >>32422272

>>32421378
Modern Germany can't attack them so even if the multi-million man offensive of Nazi Germany is defeated by ModGer's technologically superior but meager in numbers defensive force, it's not like they can do anything about it besides hope NATO invades or something.
I don't think modern Germany has the stomach to kill that many people. They would feel bad and surrender while feeling secretly grateful that Baddies would take care of their current ethnic problems for them (but against their will and amidst much protest surely!).

>>32422321
HAH! Pretty much.

>>32422106
>Wehrmacht Infantry Soldier's standard loadout
Kar98k with 12 spare 5-rnd clips (60 rounds) of ammunition

>Modern German Infantry Soldier's standard loadout
Assault Rifle (G36 I assume) with between 6-8 spare mags more than likely (180-240 rounds)

Each individual soldier will have over 3x as much ammo (keep in mind that the rifle will be initially loaded with just 5 rounds and the assault rifle will have 30-31), not to mention armour (though granted it's probably questionable at best against rifle ammo), and modern equipment like radios as well as grenades that aren't the size of 1980s cell phones. Oh yeah, speaking of armour, they sure as shit will stop 9x19mm so all those MP40s aren't going to be overly effective, even with center mass hits. Yeah it'll still suck and be scary as shit, but it won't penetrate. By far, the most common automatic firearm was the MP40. Only about half a million G41/G43 were created as I recall, and same with STG44 and variants. As for LMGs, they're basically tied. MG42 and MG34 vs MG3.

Let's also not forget the fact that modern Germany would know the dated tactics of Nazi Germany (Blitzkrieg sure did work... against nations that still had shit like cavalry), and as for air force? Please... what was the maximum speed of one of those prop planes that the Nazis had, what were they, Stukas? I really don't know shit about tanks/planes, but I'm guessing around 300 km/hr. Jets... well... it'd be a one-sided situation.

Back to the ground though; every modern German soldier basically has both an SMG and a rifle with their assault rifle. Full auto with manageable recoil, or at the flick of a switch, semi-auto with capabilities well beyond the average combat distance of 100-300m of WWII.

As for tanks, come on. Surely the modern computer shit in modern tanks would blow the Panzers and Tigers away. Dialing in the distances more precisely and quickly, probably using ammo that's more effective...Hitler ded

>>32421378
Doesn't Nazi Germany dwarf Modern Germany in terms of manpower, by like a butt-load? Can we get some metrics up in this bitch?

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assuming they border each other, the Germans win in the early phase. Anywhere they can concentrate their fire, they win. And due to their technical superiority, they can focus that superiority anywhere.

HOWEVER, like a lighthouse they can only focus in a narrow area; the Nazis are far larger a target, and had proven itself a ruthless foe.

It would never be 2 modern jets vs 2 nazi prop planes. it would never be a Leopard 2 vs a Panzer III. It will be a brutal attrition strategy, forcing the Germans to burn through vital weapon stocks (GPS kits, jet fuel, air-air and air-ground missiles) until they start to be literally overwhelmed. The Germans have quality, but at some point quantity has a quality all its own.

and thats BEFORE we consider any effects of nazi v1 and v2 bombing. Perhaps uneffective, but it may force the Germans to burn precious air resources to deal with them.

A Leopard 2 would likely be a tough customer. But what happens if it gets encircled or the Nazis overrun its staging area? it wouldnt be automatically immune to mobility kills or mechanical failure...

pic related

>>32422422
But look at the manpower. Merkel-land would get Zerg-rushed... again...

>>32422472
Numbers don't always mean victory, and neither does the best technology. It still remains that aside from numbers, the modern German Military has all the advantages. Firearms, tanks, aircraft, ships, submarines, and so on. Artillery caused the most deaths in WWI, and I dare say the same might have been true in WWII as well. Well does Germany own one of those fancy AC-130 things or whatever they're called? Could you imagine the devastation one of those things would bring down upon a bunch of unsuspecting soldiers from the early 1940s?

Speaking of which, let's put a date on this... we're talking Nazi Germany in its PRIME. So it's DEFINITELY going to be pre-Stalingrad. Let's say...

Early 1942. Operation Barbarossa was Summer 1941, and while it went FANTASTICALLY well for the Fascists, it didn't go as well as they'd hoped, because they believed the Russians to be 'untermenchen' or whatever and would be completely incapable. Well, to an extent, they kind of were, but not because of who they are. It's because of the shit Stalin has done, what with the purge and what not of the 1930s. Russia was still recovering, and had high-ranking Officers who were still brand new to their posts.

So, early-mid 1942. That means probably at most 50 Mkb.42(H) (prototype STG-44s, basically), no G43 so they have the shit-tier G41 for a semi-auto rifle. Even the MG42 might not have been put into service yet so it's MG34 which is heavier and more expensive than the MG42, meaning it's likely heavier and more expensive than the MG3. What kind of tanks did Germany have in 1942? The Panzer was their middle-weight one and Tiger their heavy-weight, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm probably using incorrect terms and sounding like a dumb-ass, but the Tiger was bigger, right? Or does Panzer just MEAN Tiger? Come on, call me a dumb ass and get it over with, and then educate me. Let's see what hardware we're dealing with here. The Nazis probably have no missiles yet, obviously no nukes.

>>32422575
The big one though is that modern German soldiers will know all about old strategies/tactics, but WWII soldiers won't know about how things are done nowadays. But on top of that, yeah... for ground troops, it's basically going to be bolt actions, SMGs, and LMGs, vs assault rifles and LMGs. For the most part. SMGs will have minimal effectiveness due to the helmets/armour, and bolt actions will be utterly shown up by assault rifles, meanwhile each individual assault rifle is basically like having their own machine-gun. Each soldier has full auto fire available, and controllable full-auto fire at that.

>>32422422
A group of ten people break into your house armed with Mausers and an intention to murder you, you have an AR 15 and literally hundreds of loaded mags.

Think you'd survive? Because you're delusional if you do.

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>>32422460
>But what happens if it gets encircled or the Nazis overrun its staging area?
Interesting notion.

>>32422663
Depends on whether you can hold a strong point, repeatedly retreating if necessary.

>>32422663
A thousand people with Mosins (because let's be real, they're basically on the same level as Mausers) go against 100 modern soldiers. Do you think the guys with Mosins would win?

So do you want to keep moving them goalposts?

10 Stukas go against 1 modern high-tech fighter jet

100 Panzers/Tigers go against 9 modern tanks... and an AC-130 or whatever the fuck it's called.

A Stuka is sent in to surveillance the situation... meanwhile the other side checks in on them instantaneously with modern satellite technology

It's nighttime... one side has top-of-the-line nightvisions shit and the other has, at best, fancy flares that are made to parachute to the ground to give a bit of light for a while. Flare will probably be shot down each time to allow for the advantage of night vision.

One side uses modern camouflage, have silencers/suppressors available, and optics widely available. Other side has optics only for specially trained troops and everyone is wearing grey. Oh, and what's silencers/suppressors?

Yup, one civilian with a semi-auto rifle can SURE be compared to the modern German Military going against another entire Military!

>>32422713

But everytime you retreat, the 10 attackers gain nothing. Everytime a nation-state retreats, the invading power gains something useful (unless you scorch the Earth, which, can Merkle-Germany do that? I don't think they could bring themselves to do it).

You also run into the problem that the commanders of the Wehrmacht are not stupid; if they capture some modern equipment they will figure out how to use it fast. Maybe not the jets or Leopards, but certainly the G-36s.

Also, and I think this gets lost, is the question of will to fight. Does modern Germany possess the insane will to fight Nazi Germany had?

I have no definitive answer to offer, but considering how hard Germany cucked itself for more or less unarmed 'invaders', I don't know if the Bundeswehr has the stomach to fight jackbooted extremists willing to die for their dream of a 1000 year reich.

>>32422731
A thousand people with mosins against a hundred E11's?

The E11's are fucked bud. Nazi Germany may be significantly behind when it comes to a lot of tech but the difference in small arms is negligible and something that would be remedied extremely quickly.

>>32422731
>A thousand people with Mosins (because let's be real, they're basically on the same level as Mausers) go against 100 modern soldiers. Do you think the guys with Mosins would win?

Yes

>10 Stukas go against 1 modern high-tech fighter jet
the jet kills stukas till it runs out of missiles and then the remaining stukas bomb something

>100 Panzers/Tigers go against 9 modern tanks... and an AC-130 or whatever the fuck it's called.
Panzers are fucked, but some of the modern ones and the ac-130 are killed by the remaining stukas

Night fighting would need to be avoided

>>32422713
It's a ridiculous scenario. One civilian with a semi-auto rifle in a house that is already filled with enemies who are all within 20m of you. This, compared to a professional modern Military complete with advanced aircrafts, advanced Navy, with top of the line Infantry complete with armour and select-fire rifles... come on. Even look at how food will be managed; modern German Military will have well-preserved food of very high quality that can be easily cooked without a fire. Meanwhile, the Nazi Germans will get whatever gruel they're given, and if they can't manage a fire, then they eat it cold or raw. If they end up over-extended like with Stalingrad then they'll rarely eat at all. Considering train tracks can easily be bombed and the modern Germans will EASILY dominate the skies to air-drop whatever supplies needed for their side meanwhile the other side will get nothing but hostile fire/bombings... yeah, being cut of from supplies is a very real possibility.

With domination of the skies, the modern German Airforce can destroy Nazi-controlled transport with ease. Whether it be aircraft meant for resupply, trucks, a fucking train... do they still use trains in Germany? Not the modern super-fast ones, but like, normal ones, with old-school tracks? Nazi Germany wouldn't know WHAT to make of a bullet train, and even if they did, the tracks could be bombed from the air with ease due to said air domination. Honestly, JUST the fact that the Nazi German Air Force would get completely buttfucked is enough to say they haven't got a chance. The jets would make mincemeat of those propeller planes, keep their allies steadily well stocked with supplies, oh, and about those half-tracks... I wonder how they'd fare when they get hit by one of those underbarrel grenade launchers. You know, the ones that are probably available by at least one soldier in every unit?

But no, yeah, sure, the Nazis still totally have a chance...

>>32421378
As an American male of German ancestry I never am sure where I stand on Hitler. He was kinda cool. and also started some major shit.

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>>32422813
good post

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>>32422806
>>32422761
I only commented on the home defense scenario /k/ids. Control your tisms.

>>32422794
1000 bolt actions, 10 propeller planes, and 100 Panzer

100 assault rifles, 1 fighter jet, 9 modern tanks, and an AC-130

You think the top group would win... I did a touch of research on the aircraft issue, by the way. Stukas didn't do well at high altitude, which is typically defined as being 8000 feet above sea level. Meanwhile, the typical altitude of an AC-130 is about 12,000 feet, where it has been found to still be capable of reaching moving ground targets. That's a difference of over 1200m (over 1300yd) of elevation. So even if a Stuka was RIGHT under that AC-130, it's still trying to hit it from, what's 1200m, 3/4 of a mile? If 12,000 feet is its standard altitude, I'm certain it can go even higher. Rise up, wait for the jets to deal with the Stukas (which by the way, I'm certain that jets have more weaponry than JUST the rockets, surely)

In fact, I just checked. The Tornado jet, which is apparently still in use, has a 27mm (over 1" in calibre) machine gun, capable of 1000-1700 RPM, and a muzzle velocity of 3600 ft/s in spite of that insanely huge bullet. So yeah, their range will FAR exceed the little 8mm Mauser pellets that the Stukas will be spitting out. Literally over 3x as big a bullet, with a faster rate of fire (since the Stuka's MG can only fire while the propeller blades are out of the way), and with over 1000 ft/s more velocity. So the jet will be going faster, has the advantage of missiles (I assume guided missiles), not to mention their MG which is, compared to pretty much anything in WWII, God tier. Those Stukas are fucked. Not just a little fucked, like tickling their butthole with a well-manicured pinky finger, but big-black-bubba locked in a jail cell with the guard passed out, who's new bunk mate is Adolf Hitler himself in a tutu with permanently-applied make-up and his comb-over replaced with pony tails, fucked. Dyed blond instead of his natural brunette, to go with his Aryan ideals.

So I repeat; modern Germany owns the skies

>>32422861
You shall never contain my au's.

>>32422999
That's great and all anon, but how long can Germany afford to feed that plane without outside intervention?

How many germans would defect to to Nazi Germany and bring state secrets with them?

Where do they store that plane when it's not on bombing runs?

War isn't just about who has the best guns anon, especially not the kind of total war Nazi Germany was so adept at waging.

>>32422999
>would win
It depends on the circumstances.

Its hard for a jet to shoot down a prop plane, they are extreemly maneuverable in comparison and stuka pilots are going to be used to dodging boom and zoom. a number of stukas equal to however many missiles they carry will will die.

>>32421595
How about WWI era Germany vs. modern Germany?

>>32422129
because many ppl here don't read books and are 16 years old

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>>32422813
He was an idiot and a con man of the highest order.

Out of all the krauts in the history of krautdom, there are few worse than him to admire.

>>32423059
>It wouldn't take long to get sky superiority; they'd have the Stukas shot down before they even knew they were within range. Radar would also help tell them where they were so they could jump from one target to another, spread out.

>Defect to Nazi Germany? With how much white guilt and guilt in general that Germany still has, if anything, they'd be signing up to join the German Military left, right, and centre in an attempt to be rid of it. "I fought the Nazis! I killed the Nazis! I'm a hero! I have purged myself of the disgusting history that Hitler has soiled our nation with!", etc.

>Nazi Germany had their Stukas running 24/7, as I recall, to try and keep the 6th Army supplied at Stalingrad in late 1942. It wasn't working, and indeed their planes were being worn out at a rapid pace. Similarly, the modern German Luftwaffe could have their Air Force run in shifts to have the jets running 24/7. Honestly, they could probably ignore the missiles entirely. Just take them out with the cannon of a machine gun they have. The rate of fire is adjustable, up to 1700 RPM. Over 1"-thick (27mm) bullets, and at 3600 ft/s. Seriously, 7.92mm 197gr bullets going 2500 ft/s (if the barrel length is 24") can't compete. It just can't. Spot them on radar, face them, use the techno-gizmos to "lock on" or whatever the fuck, and like I said, they'd be crashing to the ground before they even knew another plane was within range of them. They wouldn't get close enough to that AC-130 to take pock-shots. Speaking of which, what kind of velocity does 8mm Mauser have at 1200m/1350yd? My guess is it'd be like .45 ACP at the muzzle, except a smaller bullet of course.

>Nazi Germany had air superiority, but in this hypothetical war, they would not. Not by a longshot. With the air clear, they would cut off Nazi supply lines, and the AC-130 would cause utter chaos and havoc. It would be Stalingrad all over again with the lack of supplies, only worse... so much worse.

>>32423059
Now we're getting into something that OP did not at all define: battlefield topology.

Is Germany suddenly divided into equal parts (speaking in terms of resources, not land area), and each side must defeat the other with no help from outside allies?

Is it a scenario where both Germanys are fighting to capture one particular objective? e.g. taking France, Poland, Britain, etc.

Or does modern Germany have to fight invading Nazi forces who are given roughly the same amount of equipment, resources and manpower that they had at the height of their power?

Hypothetical scenarios can be fun to discuss, but OP has left the door wide open to all kinds of different interpretations that make a reasoned, sensible discussion all but impossible.

tl;dr, OP is a fucking faggot.

>>32422321
The US military crushed the NVA and the Viet Cong. Their job was won and done.

It's not their fault they had a weak support base in the American youth (whose degenerates are now in office), the spineless propaganda of the media (who still pollutes the masses today), and a government which was hellbent on holding them back from what they could do and instead relying on a weak and fractious state that could barely stand even without armed conflict (similar to Iraq and Afghanistan).

>>32423195
Terrible strategist. He was only a Corporal; one step above Private. ONE! Germany never could have won the war against the Soviet Union, but, they'd have done far better if Hitler would have kept the fuck out of it. But oh no, he wanted to play General or some bullshit.

>>32423174
Add 10 years. Also, Stalingrad: The Infernal Cauldron by Stephen Walsh... or Welsh. I always forget his last name. Anyways, awesome book, goes VERY MUCH in detail about the Battle of Stalingrad, and also includes a lot of the build-up to Operation Barbarossa, as well as I think covered on the final bit of the Eastern Front and 'The Great Patriotic War'. I've put one bit to memory...

In the first 6 months of Operation Barbarossa (basically from July-December 1941 or so), the Russians lost 6,000,000 wounded, 2,000,000 captured, and over 20,000 tanks put out of commission. The war went terribly for them to be sure, and Nazi Germany had air superiority the entire time. They were actually hoping to have the Western Front won by... was in 1942? I don't know. In truth, the campaign started incredibly successfully, but they SERIOUSLY overestimated themselves and also underestimated their enemy, and NOBODY ever did well in underestimating their enemy. In the end, they simply could not keep the front supplied once they reached Stalingrad, and even leading to it things were a struggle to keep fuel in the tanks, ammo in the firearms, and food in their bellies, in spite of as stated, having air superiority. The planes were running around the clock, but it was never enough.

As Napoleon said; "An Army marches on its belly." I might be paraphrasing, but you get the idea. Anyways, with Hitler leading the Nazis in this war against modern-day Germany, that would be a great advantage. All his success stemmed from how well trained his troops were, and to an extent (the Kar98k is unremarkable in functionality and the MP40 isn't anything special either) technological superiority. Particularly tanks

>>32423248
>does modern Germany have to fight invading Nazi forces who are given roughly the same amount of equipment, resources and manpower that they had at the height of their power?
This is the scenario I assumed in all my posts tbqh.

>>32421378
Modern Germany setting off a series of EMPs and then allowing the refugee population to rape the ww2 soldiers to death

>>32423248
I think in this hypothetical situation, the entire world is just two nations of Germany. One Germany in 2016, and one Germany in Spring or Summer 1942.

In truth, if this happened, say if somehow a second Germany magically rose out of the Baltic Sea or some shit and it was already infested with Nazis, can you just IMAGINE how quickly everyone would want to bum-rush them with their own Blitzkrieg and completely curb-stomp the 'Heil-Hitler'ing Krauts?

Yeah I know, people on here hate to hear it, but it's simple fact; people who like Nazism is in an UNIMAGINABLE minority meanwhile the amount of people who HATE Nazism, in EVERY sense of the word, makes up the VAST majority. I don't use the word 'hate' lightly.

>>32422422
they only have like 200 aa missles for their jets

>>32423267
Well there is one step between private and corporal actually.

>>32423102
>it's hard
Radar lock from 20 miles away and missile away

>>32421712
The moment the motivated and trained Nazi force captures a few tanks and operations manuals, they will beat the shit out of the modern German """army""". Papa Hitler probably would also get to feel vindicated at his reluctant acceptance of the StG44 way back then.

>>32423308
As i said, missiles would kill stukas but its gun is going to be of limited use, we have examples of ww2 jets trying to dogfight prop planes with guns in history. So some stukas would get shot down by missiles but the rest could take out some of the modern tanks.

>>32423285

It would be the final straw needed to get the EU to collapse regardless, as such a response would nessitate a unified military command that is currently implausable given their present state, with collaboraters feebly believing they could negotiate with the Nazis (you know, like how hey belive they can negotiate with terrorists) and lobbyists and nations who literally don't care if Nazis are invading such as Greece trying everything in their power to keep out of the fight.

Even if they're a minority, the resurgence of a third Reich would embolden existing facists who have already started to regain traction in Spain, and the prospect of fighting their countrymen would put ever more strain on the already quite unhappy conservative part of Germany that has had to dealt with refugee harassment to a not too small degree and would not like the prospect of being drafted while the latter takes over his job. Hell, Nazi Germany itself was on pretty good terms with the Muslims and could incite the refugees to go full akbar by promissing to destroy Israel with ISIS and a dozen extremist groups pounding Europe from the east and making attacks of opportunity as everyone is focused on the Nazis. China is a wildcard, as the Nazis treated them relatively well and they could easily use the situation to jocky additional world control, so don't be surprised if you see Type 69 RPGs in Wehrmacht hands.

About the only positive would be a fix in Russo/American relations as we team up to take out Hitler a second time, and maybe Israel using the excuse of ME nations such as Palestine literally siding with nazis to wipe them out while the situation diplomatically allows, repairing Middle Eastern stability.

>>32421830
Modern Germans are weak cucks, though.

If you think thats just a /pol/ urban legend then you might need to get your brain checked.

>>32422422
Are we talking about early Nazi Germany or late Nazi Germany here?

Because the latter will be able to muster companies of all assault rifle troops + a few MGs who have the basics of modern infantry combat down. The only thing they lack is body armor.

It kind of depends on the timetable of this duel though. Do they go at it from day one or do they get a few months to size each other up first? If the Nazis see that their Bundswehr opponents have a mix of assault rifles and battle rifles, they may consider trying to produce more FG42s as their own stopgap equivalent. I mean, that shit was seriously ahead of its time.

>>32423431
Nazi Germany in their prime, meaning I figure Spring or Summer 1942. Either shortly before or not long after Operation Barbarossa. By January 1943, the Battle of Stalingrad has been won by the Soviets, the legendary German 6th Army has been crushed, and the so the Russians start their long march to kick the Fascists out of their Motherland... so yeah... it's before 1943. No G43, no MP43/MP44/STG44, and I just looked up the MG42. Less than 18,000 units built in 1942. In 1943, over 110,000 were built, so the MG42 must not have entered mass production until REALLY late in 1942, meaning that there will be no MG42 either unless this hypothetical war lasts several months. Speaking of which, Hitler will also see the value of assault rifles so as soon as the Mkb.42(H) becomes known, he will probably be inclined to not ignore it like a fucking moron. Still, it'd be nowhere near as good as the G36. It's not even as good as the AKM, which was lighter, cheaper, and undoubtedly more accurate due to 7.62x39 being hotter than 7.92x33.

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>>32421712

And who says Nazi Germany wouldn't have Leopard IIs?

>>32423423

Not the Heer, but the Heer would find it difficult to justify gunning down fellow Germans because Merkel told them to. I think the biggest problem with the OP's proposition is that these two armies have no objectives aside from fight each other. If the goal is just to unify themselves, they would do so peacefully because ATM Germany could use the help of Nazis if it meant a competant force to bolster their current inadequate military and strengthen their economy, and the Third Reich would squeal at the idea of getting the EU's reigns, more than it would care about gassing Jews.

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>>32423534
>And who says Nazi Germany wouldn't have Leopard IIs?

Uh, fucking history maybe?

>>32423555

>Implying that every Leopard II driver would be 100% loyal to the modern Germany that treats them like crooks

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>>32423534
>>32423561
>And who says Nazi Germany wouldn't have Leopard IIs?
>>Implying that every Leopard II driver would be 100% loyal to the modern Germany that treats them like crooks
Are you a idiot

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>>32423561
>implying that that not every German has a guilt complex

Modern, and it's easy. Smart munitions would scare the hell out of Nazis. Reload times and gun range on tanks makes an easy win. Air superiority for Nazis would deteriorate faster than he'll. They'd pray for lucky hits while modern ADA would drop every Nazi bomber out of the sky. Attack choppers... I'll be honest, I don't know if Germany has them, but... My God, there is simply no way Nazis win unless they go guerilla and manage to reverse engineer some stolen shit. The gap is way too large. Computers launched humanity forward like no invention, before.

The Nazis would win because modern Germans would be afraid of shooting their grandfathers and then ceasing to exist.

All these faggots talking about how chunks of the heer should be instead asking how many members of the Wehrmacht will break ship from Hitler's game when they hear that a bunch of new jobs in Modern!Germany's military will now be open due to the sudden political shift and gives them actual money. As technically German citizens, it would be entierly legal for them to do so as well, and with Modern!Germany having non-existant borders they would be welcomed with open arms.

>>32421712
>using "literally" every sentence like some 14-year-old dumbshit girl on Instagram

>>32423423
>Modern Germans are weak cucks, though.

Which is why they outlived the past Germans who got their shit pushed in by Russia.

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Modern Germany is being mercilessly genocided by words and NAZIBROS had Sabbatean-Frankist hypno wizards.

>>32423697
>>32423390

I think the irony of this is that Nazi Germany could probably get the conservative Syrian refugees and the conservative German right to unite over something.

As amusing as the question is over whether numerical superiority or modern tech will win out, I'd be more curious to see how the populations of the two temporal versions of Germany would react to being confronted with the future/past of their nation.

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>>32421378
To make it fair, get this euro-centric world map and mirror it 180 degrees on the opposite side. Forget America and shieeeet, it's just uniform symmetry on both sides of the world.

Conditions are as presented
>No pre-existing allies
>Allies MAY be acquired, but only AFTER the war has begun
>There is no moral reason for why they are fighting, they're just fighting...because
>Nazi Germany MAY reverse-engineer modern tech
>Modern Germany MAY appeal for additional funding, as may the Nazis, but since the Nazis are not "evil" in this universe, it'll be hard for the UN to pick a neutral stance
>If the Nazis decide to Nazi it up (ie. genocide the Jews, kill the homos, invade Austria), other countries will react accordingly, as if it were the 21st century and everyone had 21st century sensibilities (same goes for modern Germany)
>Nazis get Hitler, Modern gets Merkel
>Begin

>>32421378
Both would lose. Germany loses.

>>32423801

WWII! Germany gets cockblocked then as the modern airforce sinks any attempt to make it to the other Germany. Modern Germany probably manages a couple successful landings with their own navy and airforce, but it's highly improbable that they can capture and hold a significant amount of their counterpart's land with their current logistics and so would eventually be driven back. It would be a stalemate, followed by the Nazis angering the UN doing Nazi stuff and getting subsequently BTFO, with our without Modern Germany.

>>32421378
Modern Germany. 75 years of weapons development, modern armor, air power trumps anything from the 1940's. Oh, and let's not forget night vision, infrared, drones, and satellite communication. Modern Germany would dominate completely.

You would have to be an ignorant retard to think the fucking vehrmacht has any chance.

>>32423960
> olden Germans Cranking their backpack Radios to try and get a single out to the battle front
> kids nearby live blogging about it asking what they're doing

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>>32422336
>>32422362
>>32423266
>These excuses
lol amerifats

No matter how you play it, you lost a war to a poorly armed, trained and equipped force.

You failed to take ground, you failed to influence the local populace, and you failed to prevent the spread of communism into South Vietnam

Worse than that, when you realised you'd failed you left the South Vietnamese to die.

Pathetic effort amerifats, just keep out of other nation's business.

Oh not to mention you ruined a perfectly democratic election. Truly pathetic

Anyone who tries to defend Vietnam as a worthwhile conflict is fucking retarded.

It was waste; and that's entirely the fault of the US for mishandling the conflict. Anyone who blames hippies is fucking pathetic.

>>32422204
Modern Germany can't even stand up to Somalia.

>>32422272
2016 Australia would likely wipe the floor with 1945 Australia, too.

>>32421818
die Juden

>>32422272
>>32422295
>>32424142
-cough- CHINA, Poland as well

>>32422000
Yes, because Nazi Germany was effective at spying in WW2, right? Everysingle spy on UK soil was discovered and turned.

You can't close the tech gap without production capabilities. Making a Leo 2 would be as hard for NG as making T-72's was for Saddam, if not harder. There simply isn't enough ammo production in the entire (non-bombed to shit) NG to supply an army armed with full auto 5.56 rifles. Communications parity? Hell no. Logistical parity, while the adversary is invading and bombing you to shit? Not gonna happen.

>>32422221
>>32422258
You're forgetting that Modern Germany's Wiesels and Pumas are capable of destroying early Panzers with their autocannons, and everything, including Konigstiger and Elefant, is fucked against a modern anti-tank missiles. Then there's MG's aerial superiority, combined with modern artillery. It's scary how accurate those PzH2000 units can be, and they'd certainly give a frontal tank assault a lot of trouble.

>>32421378
Nazi Germany would eat shit, their logistics were beyond retarded and modern day Germany has such a technological and logistical advantage over them that it isn't even funny.

>>32421378
90-95% of modern germans willing to fight would defect to Nazi Germany in the first day, the war would be over in less than a week

>>32421595
>Modern Germany has almost no civilian gun ownership
Civilian gun ownership doesn't win any war except a civil war.
>their military is almost nonexistant
200,000 including reserves, with a draft in place, could very well exceed Nazi Germany's size within a year. There's no reason for them to have a large active army right now, but give them a reason and they'll be forced to build it.
>and they refuse to fund, equip, or train said almost non-extant military
And they will once they are in total war against an opponent. They aren't right now.

>>32421746
But raw production capabilities that would make Speer cream his pants. Rheinmetall and the likes of them nowadays can make plenty, it's just that Germany refuses to go into a wartime economy over some dhurkas.

>The modern US had its ordinance supply stretched to the breaking point by the low intensity wars in the mideast.
To the breaking point of current capabilities, sure. There's plenty of reserve that they simply refuse to activate because of economical reasons.

>How the hell would Merkal-Land have enough to combat one of the greatest land powers in history?
Because of the technical disparity between them, they'd need less heavy munitions.

>>32421850
ISIS isn't a good example because Germany aren't even fully trying. They've got economical problems to fix, and adding a fulltime war on the agenda isn't going to fix them.

The Luftwaffe wouldn't have time to react to the engagement windows provided my a modern aircraft.

>>32421899
>reverse engineered by Nazi geniuses
So complicated beyond repair?

>mass produced and improved by Nazi industrial might.
So they'll make 2000 out of the two bombed-out factories they have left?

>>32422663
I'd have a pretty good chance.

>>32422062
>Conflict in Turkey
Syria.

>aerial attak
Improbable. Aerial attack was already laughably ineffective in WW2, nevermind when the entire Luftwaffe is shot to bits and the Leo2 has countermeasures.

>Anti-tank mines
Not a viable anti-tank measure, just an area denial measure.

>Heavy WW2 anti-tank guns
I doubt a Pak 44(pretty much the biggest they had back then) will be enough to penetrate similarly to a Rheinmetall L55. Abrams and Leo are often thought to have similar defensive values, and a modern 120mm APFSDS doesn't achieve frontal penetration on the Abrams - I doubt it will on the Leo. Nevermind that pig iron 128mm shell from the Pak - oh, and nevermind the detection systems on the Leo, that'll spot the Pak from outside of it's effective range, and nevermind air superiority and drone observation.

>>32422062
>the Leo2's armor is a meme
>he bought into the durka durka propaganda

>>32421378

Has everyone in this thread been shaken as a baby? Honestly?

The advanced optics on a modern tank means it would pop anything the Nazis had before the Nazis could even see the opposition. The end, that's it. Look at how American Abrams tanks wrecked Saddam's tanks. Just fucked them, and those were more advanced Soviet designs from the Cold War.

Every plane the Nazis had would be shot down at the absolute leisure of the modern German jet aircraft.

Modern German artillery would just shit all over the Nazi artillery with superior guns and guidance systems.

And the Nazi troops without air, armor, or artillery support would get fucked mercilessly by cluster munitions.

The Kriegsmarine would be sent to the bottom with simple guided bombs from the German air force, we wouldn't even need to shitposting about muh Bismark. It wouldn't matter. Literal guided munition would just fuck it to pieces.

How in God's green earth would the Nazis stand for even a week against the absolute fucking they would receive?

>>32422713
i think the Nazis would be unable to effectively defend, they'd have to go offense just to have a chance.

I think troop experience is worth mentioning too; if we ase peak ww2 Nazis, then a lot of their troops and commanders are going to be very experienced in actual force-on-force engagements with equal foes, as opposed to the German army which has, at best, a few leaders who participated in fighting Gaddafi and ISIS.

Modern tech certainly gives advantages, as mentioned earlier. But proper tactics could greatly reduce the ability of the Germans to use their full power or range; certainly they'd struggle to use their full range if Nazis make good use of scouts and terrain to force closer fighting, which may benefit the Nazis due to sheer numbers (ie.., if you cant beat them, pin them and go around to their staging areas).

I think the shock aspects of modern tech wouldnt be as big a deal. Fundamentally much of our modern equipment is largely refinements of ww2 tech, instead of brand new innovations. Helicopters would probably be the biggest battlefield consideration that ww2 commanders would have to learn to deal with, which ironically fits into their AA capability as opposed to jet fighters flying above them.

>>32422999
risking your modern jet to get in a gun fight is beyond stupid. Dump your AA missiles and rtb. the prop pilots were literally trained exclusively for dog fights, and while modern jets are indesputibly better, you are potentially risking your irreplaceable plane (or at least hard to replace parts) for relatively little gain.

>>32424317
Fighting in an open flat desert =/= fighting in german forests or hills. Cover and Concealment apply as much to tanks as infantry, maybe moreso as tanks are less manueverable. Range and power force the Nazis to be very cognizant of what is happening around them, but it isn't instant death.

Modern air will kill nazis all day erry day... except there are only so many jets in Germany, and only so many AA missiles. Between mass-V1 V2 attacks and various Me-s and bombers the Nazis may simply be able to swamp the Germans via sortie rate; it gets worse if the Nazis manage to hit a few runways in Germany and cause a bottleneck (either they have to RTB and get swamped, or Nazi rocket attacks cause damage) whereas a number of prop planes can take off from flat fields.

You are asking a LOT from the modern German AF between strategic bombing, tactical air support, and combat air patrol. Its good butter, but i question if there's enough to go around if the Nazis play their cards right.

>>32423213
>The jets would shoot down the Stukas with missiles and then their far more advanced aiming/radar/MG system which outperforms the MG34s on Stukas by a wide margin

>AC-130 would obliterate supply lines and cause such destruction to their soldiers, especially when in tightly knit groups, that they wouldn't know what to think. All while flying over a full Kilometre above the maximum height that Stukas can fly without their pilots passing out.

>Almost Universal worldwide hate for the Nazis (especially in Germany itself) would give unabashed support to waging all-out war with them because they're in the process of trying to round up innocent Jewish/homosexual/disabled civilians once more.

>Jets would be running around the clock, just like the Stukas in the Eastern Front, dominating with both guided missiles and MG systems. I imagine they'd slow their speed to where they're barely outpacing the Stukas, gun them down before they're in range of the 8mm rounds, swerve, speed up, and be long gone before they're anywhere close to within range. That, or just keep going straight at them. By the time they're within range, the Stuka is already going down.

>In instances where there's no air support but control of the air has been maintained, each modern Infantryman has an assault rifle accurate to beyond 500m and capable of controlled automatic fire, while the majority of the Nazis either have bolt action rifles which will be utterly outclassed, or SMGs which won't be able to penetrate the modern Infantryman's armour.

>As far as tanks go, again, outclassed, especially if range or speed is involved. Not that it matters; the Nazis won't be able to keep their tanks refuelled because of the menacing jets and the AC-130s overhead denying resupplies. Even if it were just jets, the jets would know of potential enemy Stukas well before they'd know of the jet's positions, and so begin picking them off at extreme distances. Over 1km away.

>>32424601
And what keeps the Germans from doing the same to the Nazis? Precision guided munitions are scary shit- a single plane on a single sortie could drop a bomb that absolutely coats a Nazi runway in landmines. The accuracy allowed by modern munitions is fucking magic compared to what the Nazis had.

>>32422106
No, they don't win, because the Leopards decide when to engage, not the Panzers. They can retreat as they please, popping Nazi tanks with impunity, refueling and returning before the slow-as-fuck Panzers can make any significant gains. And yeah, every Wehrmacht soldier was lugging an MG-42 around, sure. That's gonna help a whole lot with armor.

>>32422106
>10000 men with MG42
Nigga plz

>>32424962
as i noted, Nazis have a benefit in that props can (and did) take off fields.

no doubt PGMs are scary shit. but i question how many the Germans own. they have a LOT to bomb, and if Libya was any indication many of the Euro nations were woefully underprepared in the bomb department.

I think if the Nazis can hold out for two weeks their chance of winning will surge up; they were ready for the largest ground op in history, Modern Germany probably couldnt sustain anything full-on for very long

>>32421378
Modern day Germany, because they can actually build a nuclear weapon.

>>32424962
soft armor isnt very good against rifle rounds man.

an mp40, sure, it will stop that. mauser rifle fire? not so much. Not even sure how good their plates are

>>32425073
Doesn't gotta, because the Germans are going to have tank support after every Nazi tank gets a hole blown through the front and out the back.

>>32421901
>Nazi Germany
>Functioning shit
Yeah those late war tanks were great for reliability weren't they?

>>32424272
>There's plenty of reserve that they simply refuse to activate because of economical reasons.
Probably also because you never know when a 'real' war will break out. And you really don't want those stockpiles to be less than full when one does.

>>32425121
he said peak german

>>32425093
with what? Leopards? this isnt desert storm, you cant shoot through hills easily, and i doubt the nazis are going to be as stupid as the Iraqis and leave their shit in the open. there are cases where nazis hid their equipment up to tanks, effectively, in the forests, to the point allies apparently didnt notice. GOODWOOD, i believe was the operation where that happened a lot.

>>32425169
So a lot of the later better 88s aren't available to them, the tech gap is even bigger between modern and Nazi in that case

>>32422460
>It would never be 2 modern jets vs 2 nazi prop planes.
No, it would be a pair of jets vs. 10 or 20 nazi prop planes. The prop planes simply cannot react within their engagement window, so practically speaking the jets are invulnerable, drop their weapons ASAP, return to base, refuel, rearm, and get shooting again.

>it would never be a Leopard 2 vs a Panzer III
No, it'd be a Puma vs 30 Nazi tanks. The 30x173mm APFSDS-T is sufficient for anything up to Pz4 (110mm penetration vs 800mm frontal armor) at 2000m - effective range for the Puma, but far away for any Panzer to have a chance to hit it's opponent. Panther or Tiger comes up? Either have a set of PzH's behind your lines deal with it, or fire a Spike, and forget about it.

>and thats BEFORE we consider any effects of nazi v1 and v2 bombing.
So what happens when a set of not even remotely accurate bombs land on Germany? Nothing, because they don't land. Computer guided AAA guns are plenty to deal with them, they don't need air resources to take those out.
Meanwhile, Nazi Germany gets hit with increasingly more accurate long range missiles - and then the MLRS gets into range. Byebye, armored columns.

>But what happens if it gets encircled or the Nazis overrun its staging area?
It retreats to beyond the enemy's standoff distance, that's what. There's not a single reason Modern Germany wouldn't just hold a steady defensive retreat.

>>32425169
Nazi Germany at its peak was around 1942. Tiger tank didn't come around until August 1942, so there's probably not going to be any Tiger tanks. The Panther tank was 1943, so none of those whatsoever. It seems to me that Nazi Germany had only 1 heavy tank in service by mid-1942, and that was the Neubaufahrzeug, used in 1940, but not considered successful so only 5 were built.

So what we're talking about, for Nazi Germany at the height of their success...

>No assault rifles
>Only semi-auto rifle is the G41 which is shit-tier
>No heavy tanks
>Likely no MG42s

It would also seem that the year that seen the most aircraft produced in Nazi Germany was 1944. Even 1943 seen 50% more than 1942, so we're nowhere close to the height of Nazi Germany's aircraft production.

The Wehrmacht will be armed with primarily bolt action rifles, with a few MP40s sprinkled in which will be largely ineffective due to modern armour, and they'll be using MG34s for LMGs which aren't as light or as good as MG3s.

By far, the primary aircraft in use is the JU-87, designed in 1935. Cruising speed 250 km/hr. Max speed 350 km/hr. Meanwhile the Tornado jet as used by modern day Germany can function at both high and low speed so it's not like they HAVE to go at insane speeds; they can slow down for improved maneuverability, but their max speed is Mach 2.2 which is 2400 km/hr or 1490 m/hr. So literally almost 8x as fast. By the way, that max speed is over 2100 ft/s. They're capable of LITERALLY going almost as fast as the 2500 ft/s s.S. Patrone 1934 8mm Mauser that the JU-87 will be trying to shoot them with. They can also reach over 15,000m above sea level, meanwhile the JU-87 can't really safely ascend past 8000 feet, which is less than 2500m. So the jets could simply stay WELL above the Stukas, far higher than they can reasonably expect to engage, and take them out with missiles and their far more advanced machine gun system.

>I say again
Modern Germany would 100% control of the air.

>>32422575
>Well does Germany own one of those fancy AC-130 things or whatever they're called?
No, but they've got MLRS systems, and, having had maths lessons from one of their PzH2000 commanders, I'd hate to be marching in any kind of organised fashion with something resembling a unit when those guys get the drop on you. MRSI is a bitch.

>>32422794
>Yes
Can those 1000 engage all the time? No. Can those 100 engage all the time? Pretty much. Funnel tactics, overseen by armor and aircraft, and those 1000 air dead ASAP.

>the jet kills stukas till it runs out of missiles and then there's no Stuka's left
Ftfy

>but some of the modern ones and the ac-130 are killed by the remaining stukas
Bitch please. Stuka's couldn't even hit a tank in WW2, nevermind a modern, faster one with active countermeasures, and some of them with the capability (autocannons or missile) that could take the Stuka down hard. Hell, even a footslogger nowadays could take that Stuka down with a decent MANPADS.

You can't avoid night fighting if the opponent knows that's his advantage. What enemy would deny themselves of such an advantage?

>>32425410
With 100% control of the air AND 100% control of the night, they can cut supply lines, destroy the medium tanks just with their over 1" thick in calibre MG thus saving their missiles for easy Stuka destruction, not that destroying them with their MGs beyond 1km would be at ALL difficult, not to mention the tactics would be in modern Germany's favour, the camouflage, the tanks, the armour (which would render the MP40s practically useless), not to mention even if the Nazi Germans DID somehow get superiority in the air (which is impossible) the modern ground troops can still be fed intel on positioning thanks to satellites.

In the end, what they could do is take up a strategy of defend during the day and advance during the night. Every soldier in a defensive position with assault rifles is like every soldier having a machine gun. If the Germans try to move out in the open, they would get mowed down. If they try to pop some smoke and run through said smoke, the modern German soldiers (who are carrying over 3x as much ammo, potentially 4x as much ammo, or maybe even 5x as much ammo if they carry 10 mags each which isn't exactly an impossibility) can be instructed to send a 3-round burst into the smoke. Perhaps one after another so there will be CONSTANTLY bullets flying through it. Wehrmacht soldier had 60 rounds besides the 5 in his rifle. Modern German soldier would have 180 rounds to spare if they only have 6 spare mags.

Once night time comes, it will be the Nazi German soldier's worst nightmare. Every sound is a possible futuristic enemy, using armaments and technology they had never seen nor heard of before. Equipped with silencers/suppressors, it would only increase the paranoia, because chances are they had never heard a firearm that sounded like that before. The psychological aspect of them going against an utterly unfamiliar enemy would be terrifying.

>>32423357
>Stukas can take out tanks
No.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/combat-aircraft-versus-armour-in-wwii/#Kursk%2043:%20the%20Luftwaffe%E2%80%99s%20Story

>Stuka's can take out modern tanks
Hell no. Armor is a lot better nowadays, tanks are a lot faster.

>Stuka's can take out modern tanks, surrounded by modern AAA capabilities
Hell no. One MANPADS, one Puma pointing it's 30mm, and that Stuka is toast.

>>32425418
Even without the AC-130, the airspace would be dominated. Stay well above the maximum height for Stukas, and take them down from ranges that are impossible for 8mm Mauser with their MGs that can fire at up to 1700 RPM, and are using over 1" thick bullets going 3600 ft/s. I have no doubt that they have some kind of night vision system in those modern jets, so again, night time would be dominated by both ground and air, meanwhile I can't see why the jets wouldn't dominate the daytime either. If any of the Stukas are feeling brave they can try to gun their plane up to the jet's level, only for the pilot to pass out, and so watch that propeller aircraft plummet helplessly to the ground.

This entire thread really is a bunch of Naziboos trying to feed their delusion that Nazi Germany was some kind of unstoppable force in WWII that only lost due to reasons outside of their control. Ultimately, it was their own doing that they lost. They done goof'd. They done goof'd hard. No, they could not take on the modern German Military, even if they had 10x the numbers for men, aircraft, Navy, and so on. The technological difference is just staggering. Yeah there's the whole "Vietcong vs America" thing, but their difference in technology pales in comparison to modern day vs WWII. Even the Vietcong had AKMs and SKSs in widespread use, neither of which were available in WWII. The SKS had prototypes used in the capture of Berlin at the very end. That's it. So there's basically something like perhaps a 20 year gap between US and Vietcong during the Vietnam War. We're talking about a fucking 74 year gap. 1942 vs 2016.

Even if it was 1943 vs 2016, big whoop. Air would still be utterly dominated, night time would still be utterly dominated, the ocean would still be utterly dominated, and at worst, the ground troops would simply take up defensive positions against the Nazis during the day... while every modern German soldier has full-auto capabilities.

>>32423608
>Attack choppers... I'll be honest, I don't know if Germany has them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger

> there is simply no way Nazis win unless they go guerilla and manage to reverse engineer some stolen shit
And then what? They've got no production capabilities that can make modern aircraft or tanks, and nowhere near the production capabilites to produce enough ammo for an army armed with intermediate (5.56 or 7.92x33) rifles.

The modern Luftwaffe doesn't have AC-130's though. They don't even use C-130's for that matter.

>>32425571
>The modern Luftwaffe doesn't have AC-130's though. They don't even use C-130's for that matter.
Meant for >>32425543

>>32423801
>>Nazi Germany MAY reverse-engineer modern tech
What's that going to get them? They don't have any producton capabilities for that, see >>32425571

>>Nazis get Hitler, Modern gets Merkel
I'd consider Merkel the more capable commander, and that's saying a lot.

Nazi Navy and Luftwaffe get decimated, Army quickly loses battle due to air support, advanced artillery, IFV's that decimate their fullsize tanks, and they lose individual infantry battles due to armor, and raw volume of fire.

>>32425519
I'm willing to bet I could pop up from the top-hatch of a modern MBT and hosing the Stuka down with fire from the M2HB after he's made his strafing-run, and have a good chance of downing him.

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>>32421712
The constant production of the German war machine?
t. your autism

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>>32421850
>luftwaffle

>>32422221
Those are TOTAL production numbers, almost a decades worth of production.

>>32422221
Probably because WW2 tanks are tremendously shit tier compared to modern ones, I really have no doubt that a handful of modern tanks could take on several hundred WW2 ones.

To all these people talking about how present day militaries and "defeated" by goat farmers with WWII weapons, surely you understand there's a difference between a conventional war and an insurgent war? These insurgents hide out in civilian populations, making it difficult to distinguish who is who. There's nowhere to just drop a bomb and say that you won.
Political correctness and the white man's burden means that we have to tread lightly when rescuing these third world fucks from themselves. Keep in mind a white country hasn't waged war with another white country in over 70 years. If whites are waging war against each other, the gloves will be thrown off and people will die. A whole shit load of people will die because we no longer have to worry about the media portraying us as these ebil white oppressors.

Modern Germany would win hands down.

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>>32424601
>Fighting in an open flat desert =/= fighting in german forests or hills.
Oh, so now you're also giving Modern Germany an environment where their camo is more effective against Mk1 Eyeball, and where modern sensor suites are even more ffective by comparison? Well done, now the SS got assraped again.
Cover and concealment don't apply when you've got pic related for a matchup: a Leo 2's armor vs. a L/71 88 KwK (the infamous ''long 88''). The entire tank is your cover. Besides, are you really fooling yourself into thinking that Nazi Germany can better exploit that cover? You know, the side without drones, with their aircraft shot to pieces, and no sensors on their tank?

>except there are only so many jets in Germany, and only so many AA missiles.
Modern Germany still has gunfighters in inventory, and those are miles ahead of anything the Nazi's had in 1942. Shoot and scoot, and the Nazi planes don't even have time to react, because engagement windows are going to be extremely short.

>Between mass-V1 V2 attacks and various Me-s bombers
Suppose Nazi Germany manages to produce those V1's and V2's (they can't make enough of them, trust me, but suppose they can): the missiles get shot down hard with 20 or 30mm guided autocannons, the planes get hit by AAA missiles. Modern MANPADS might even be effective against those prop planes.

>>32421899
Reverse engineering only works if you know the materials you're dealing with. A lot of modern weapons and even gear like body armor are made from polymers, alloys, and plastics that won't even exist for another 20-50 years.

>>32424922
>AC-130's
I'd read up on German equipment if I were you. Germany doesn't even use C-130's, nevermind Spookies. Go back to CoD.

>>32425073
Sure, the rifle rounds will pose a problem - but then again, the effective range of a Mauser with iron sights is going to be a bit short of a scoped G36, and a single guy with a G36 can crank out as much shots as 5 guys with a Mauser.

>>32425169
>there are cases where nazis hid their equipment up to tanks, effectively, in the forests, to the point allies apparently didnt notice.
There's a difference between WW2 Allies, and modern Germany, in terms of detected enemy weaponry. The former relied on Mk1 Eyeball, the latter relies on stuff that makes a Pz4 light up like fireworks, even during the night.

>>32421850
Rip

>>32424557
You are forgetting the fact that a MODERN German commander would have knowledge of WWII history, the capabilities of his opponents, and a keen understanding of modern combined arms warfare, and would apply these things to his advantage.

>>32425410
>Nazi Germany doesn't have Tigers/Panthers
They're dead. A Puma IFV can penetrate up to 110mm of armor at 2000M with it's autocannon, using APFSDS ammo. The most heavily armored tank Nazi Germany will have is a Pz4 - 85mm frontal armor.

>>32422106
>if Germany had time to prepare
You mean by running crying to America? Germany is fucked famalam

>>32425651
Yugoslavs killing each other aren't white?

>>32422298
I think you mean same mistake three times.

>>32421712
>Literally

>>32421595
Are you retarded?

>>32424027
The bait lives on in this one.
>mfw no bait pictures

>>32423285
Kike

>>32426105
Anglican, actually.

>>32425836
So even with heavy tanks, Nazi Germany's fucked in terms of armoured vehicles. As we've covered, they're also fucked for air superiority, and also as we've covered, their Infantry would be useless at night meanwhile even during the day they would be outmatched.

>Vast majority of troops have Kar98k, which can't match the rate of fire for assault rifles
>Most non-bolt-action troops have SMGs, which would be VERY ineffective due to modern armour.
>MG34 LMGs would be outmatched by MG3s, which can also be mounted with scopes to make them sniping weapons similar to what the Japanese did during WWII.
>G41 is shit-tier; unreliable 'Bang' system and can't even be reloaded via mags; only 5-rnd Mauser clips

So the Nazis are fucked in the air, fucked for tanks, fucked at night, and during the day they're facing troops who basically all have machine guns. With automatic fire available, each and every one of them can mow down moving targets with ease. Meanwhile whenever the Nazis have their MG34 reloading, they are utterly lost for effective automatic fire. Not only that, but the modern Germans could assign certain soldiers to give steady semi-auto fire on the enemy machine-gunner to easily keep them pinned down and ineffective, meanwhile the other troops can pick off the enemy. Considering apparently each and every standard-issue G36 in the Bundeswehr comes with a magnified optic available, each soldier doubles not only as their own machine gunner when compared to any soldiers with bolt actions and SMGs that are only accurate to perhaps 150-200m, but they are also effectively snipers.

How are the Naziboos still trying to say that the Nazis would win? Oh yeah, by claiming that everyone who delivers truth on the unbelievable technological gap is a Jew. Yeah, ingenious. We need that Naziboo bingo sheet in here to see how far we've come.

>>32421712
Use Syrian refugees as human shields

>>32426585
While I agree with 90% of your post, and I'm pretty sure Nazi Germany would get their ass handed to them:

>>MG34 LMGs would be outmatched by MG3s
Nigga, the MG3 is basically an MG42 in 7.62 NATO. A steady improvement over the MG34 then, not completely outmatching it.

>which can also be mounted with scopes to make them sniping weapons
No. Just no. Increase their effective range, maybe, but not making them sniping weapons.

> but they are also effectively snipers.
Again, no. Desgnated marksmen, maybe, but even that's pushing it.

>>32422331
more like the majority, lol, most of the USA did not want Drumpf

>>32426686
Keep telling yourself that, maybe it'll be true one day.

>>32426686
bad shill

>>32421899
Nazi industrial military might mostly dates from the Weimar Republic's industrial expansion. Like many politicians, Hitler took credit for things he never did anything about. Of course, in this hypothetical, the Nazi Wehrmacht definitely has access to it, but the factories of 2016 Germany themselves don't look anything like the Nazi ones do. Even with the state of the art from the last day of the war, the Nazis simply couldn't manage unless they captured an entire, intact factory, because 2016 Germans outproduce them by an order of magnitude in less space. Which the 2016 Bundeswehr could simply bomb.

>>32426718
>>32426757
Drumpf lost the popular vote, don't even try to argue he had a majority

>>32426765
He won the Electoral votes though, and there's evidence to see that Popular votes were fudged in Hillary's favor when looking at the recount.

>>32426660
Alright, so disregard the 'sniper' comments and the hyperbole regarding MG3 vs MG34. It's still handy as fuck to have almost every soldier capable of being a designated marksman, using optics to help reach out to potentially 600m or so. Yeah, we'll be talking about roughly .22lr ballistics at that point, certainly less than .22 Magnum, but the point is that EACH soldier is capable of incredible accuracy along with having the aid of an optic. Meanwhile most Wehrmacht soldiers will just have a bolt action with irons. Capable of lethality at greater range, sure, but terribly lacking in rate of fire, capacity, and also the lack of optics except for the designated marks or sniper or whatever you want to call them.

If they had No.4 Lee Enfields instead of Kar98ks, it'd be a LITTLE better because they'd have a smoother bolt, better sights, and twice the capacity, but even if it's true that bunch of Lee Enfields can seem like a machine gun, the fact is, with a G36 assault rifle, just ONE basic Infantryman can sound like he has a machine gun. It would be combined gunfire the likes that the Wehrmacht soldiers have likely never heard before. They ALL have rifles capable of semi-auto at the SLOWEST, likely firing short bursts if things get up-close and hairy. They'd likely pick up an MP40 if they got the chance, only to find that the enemy is quite literally pretty much bullet proof against it unless they're in the limbs or face. Also, the MP40's rate of fire will seem utterly sluggish in comparison to a G36 in full auto. Something like 500 RPM vs 750 RPM; one is literally 50% faster than the other, and while only a few special troops get an MP40, the majority of their enemy would have that menacing G36.

Fuck the MG42, having an enemy Army full of assault rifles would have them shitting their pants at the thought of leaving cover.

>>32426791
You know, you could just say that Hillary won the popular vote because of California and it being a state that largely swings one-way (might as well throw NYC in too, since Hillary got 80% of the vote there).

Because if you subtract Cali, then Trump wins popular and electoral.

>>32426844
>if we arbitrarily subtract 10% of the population the votes change

Trump supporters are such an insightful group

>>32426872
>10%

More like 50%, lol, California is what makes America what it is

We own this country

>>32426884
Confronted with an argument he cant beat, the /pol/tard quickly pretends to be a retarded liberal so he can then respond to his own post and pretend he won.

Classic

>>32426915
This thread is practically swimming in /pol/tards/naziboos.

>>32421378
forget leopard vs king tiger
forget G3 vs MG42
forget f-16 vs Me-109

look at the troops:
a bunch of screaming waffen ss killing machines vs sensitive germans concerned about immigrants feelings.

my money is on uncle adolf and his merry band

>>32427166
>Forget the things that matter and suddenly my scenario works!
No. A Puma could BTFO a Koenigstiger. A Tornado will destroy a squad of Me-109's and then tear the next squad a one one when it runs out of missiles and switches to autocannon. A squad of guys armed with G36's with modern arty support will rule a battefield occupied by people carrying a Kar98k and a radioset.

I know they're a bunch of cucks, but Adolf wouldn't have a chance in hell.

>>32427244
Let them have their delusions. Truly, if Nazi Germany came back from the dead, we would aaaaaall cower before their might. Even America would only be able to bend over and take it up the ass for their brilliant blond hair would blind them from seeing, and their startlingly blue eyes of purity would fill their souls with such fear and yet longing and sexual desire that they would all immediately stick their M4A1 and M16A4 barrels in their mouths to commit suicide for they will never BE as great, nor ever obtain such greatness externally.

Superior Nazi technology would render modern assault rifles utterly obsolete like a muzzle loaded matchlock in the face of laser rifles from 900 years in the future, in which the 3rd Reich would still be reigning over the world. If the Nazis could come back, the world would be made great, and everything would be made right.

Surely, this would be the outcome of an Army coming back that has been laid dormant for the past 70+ years. Nazi Germany would rule the world just as surely as the world is presently ruled by a patriarchal society made to keep women down, even if first world nations.

Naziboos are now in the same league as third-wave feminists.

>>32422999
Stukas performed poorly over 8kft or so, but that doesn't mean they couldn't get up higher, just that they weren't at their best at high altitude. A quick google says that the B-2 model had a service ceiling of 26kft.

Also, plenty of Stukas had more potent armament than just 8mms, and afaik all of them had wing-mounted guns, so prop sync isn't an issue. They were built with a pair of permanent 20mms in later models, could carry gunpods that upped the total 20mm count to 6 guns, and some even had 37mm AT guns under the wings.

One of those could definitely smash a C-130, but fortunately for the modern guys, I don't think a Stuka is fast enough to actually catch a C-130. It'd only work in a head-on intercept, but that's probably impossible for the Stuka to pull off since the C-130 and its escorts have radar and will see the Stkua before it even knows that they're around.

The real threat to an AC-130 would be flak, I think. The Nazis had fuckloads of 88mms and other large caliber AA, and that's such a dead technology that modern planes aren't really designed to survive it. The AC-130 is at particular risk because it has to be low, slow, and predictable to do its mission. Fortunately the modern Germans could just send in jets and helos to tear the shit out of every AA emplacement around.

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>>32427641
*towers over you* not so fast

>>32427902
Germany doesn't even have C-130's though. It's a moot point, because the Stuka's are dead against modern jet fighters, as is everything else in the Nazi Luftwaffe. What the jets don't tear up will be hit by MANPADS and other AAA (missiles and guns alike).

Nazi AAA would be utterly useless against modern jets, because of altitude, speed and lack of tracking. The only saving grace is that most of Nazi AAA still relied on spotting enemy aircraft by eye, so there's no radar signature or whatever for the jets to aim at. Nazi AAA might just not get utterly bombed to shit then, but they'll be as useless as waving your dick.

>>32421378
Nazi germany but not due to anything other than leadership. They'd still be tweeting out "#NotAllGermans" as they floor drops out from under them and they start doing the noose dance

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>>32421595
>Modern Germany has almost no civilian gun ownership
Because that's exactly what got German tanks to the English channel and the outskirts of Leningrad. Civilian gun ownership. Would never win Dunkirk without it.

>>32427166
>vs sensitive germans concerned about immigrants feelings.
Adolf would come to purge the modern Germany of kebab. They would fight like lions to protect Jamal and his crack dealership.

>>32428260
Not really. Hitler would admire his Mohammadan friends and seek to be friend with them because of them being antisemetic.

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>>32427641
>Naziboos are now in the same league as third-wave feminists.
>now
Try always.

>>32427951
Yeah, flak definitely wouldn't do much against modern strike fighters. Hell, it only worked in WWII because they were shooting fucktons at shells at giant mass formations of big slow bombers and even then the hit rate was pretty damn low.

afaik the Germans actually had a pretty good amount of radar integration with their AAA though. It may not have been guided gunlaying but they were certainly using radar for early warning and to coordinate firing times. Those radars would last about 5 minutes in a war against a modern enemy though, you wouldn't even need to home in on them because the things are the size of fucking billboards.

>>32421378
One on one with no foreign intervention? WWII Germany.

>>32428664
t. naziboo who didn't read the thread

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>this whole thread

>>32423308
Except you forgot the magic of RADAR GUIDED LAND BASED MOBILE SHORT RANGE AA GUNS... like the Gepard with radar, twin 35mm and stinger heat seekers. They would obliterate anything remotely close to them and could easily destroy 80% of nazi tanks.

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>>32423102
> stuka pilots are going to be used to dodging boom and zoom
No. To "get used" to it they require prior experience. Stukas that got boom-zoomed were almost universally dead stukas. Success of their use was based mostly on using them under the circumstances of total air superiority in the area.

>>32429632
You don't even need that. Just the modern autocannons make prop planes insta-dead due to their superior accuracy and tracking compared to WWII-era AA.

>>32425519
>Hell no. Armor is a lot better nowadays, tanks are a lot faster.
Tooo beee faaaair. Tank ROOFS specifically are NOT well armored. Remember - A-10 manages to damage modern armor reliably with a 30mm gun. Stukas had 37mm. Much, MUCH lower ROF, but still quite capable of making a hole in Abrams' roof.

That, however, is completely negated by how limited was the use of Ju-87 G2 in Luftwaffe, and what an AMAZING pain in the ass they are to use against serious armor. Also, daily reminder that Hans Rudel's memoirs are the biggest pile of bovine feces in the history of cape-superhero fiction literature.

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>>32429878

>>32430087
top-tier filename

>>32422663
>Think you'd survive? Because you're delusional if you do.
>Solid 4 inch thick rock walls
>Narrow af hallway to where I am, which is only accessible after a 90 degree turn from the living room
desu, I think I'd have a solid chance even with my mosin.

>>32424557

On the contrary, as Syria, Vietnam, and Afghanistan has shown us, the best way for a technologically inferior power to combat a superior power is on the defensive; if the Nazis can apply guerilla tactions on West (a term I'm going to use to seperate them from N-G) Germany when it comes to defending, they can eventually bleed the latter dry as they retool their shells into IEDs and force the latter into grueling street fighting where they can't really bring their airforce to bear without reducing the surrounding city into rubble.

Propaganda and using the current divide between Muslim Germany and Protestant Germany, or even West Germany and East Germany as well as the fact that the West Germans are fighting against their countrymen for the other would grind into their drafting measures (you'll be surprised how many people are willing to kill the man that they percieve to be taking their livelyhood, whether those perceptions are factual or not) and possibly even cause rioting: this conflict is as much of a civil war as it is a conflict.

At the end, either Nazi Germany's propaganda eats through and forces Western Germany into a Vietnam-style concession, paritioning it in two with Nazi Germany being the North Korea analogue, or Nazi Germany's baggage as Nazis ends up screwing them over and they get slaughtered to a man, with the resulting reconstruction having a non-trivial chance of taking Western Germany down with it. Germany ultimately loses a lot of its political power in the process, as typical when you have a conflict with yourself.

>>32431130
This is about the only reasonable and realistic post in this thread explaining an outcome in Nazi Germany's favor, thank you for not being a 12 year old Wehraboo or CoD fanboi.

>>32422062
>from the totally trustable information we got from ISIS it seems the 40-year-old Lepard 2A4's side and rear armor is vulnerable to weapons designed to attack MBT sides and rears
>hurr, hurr, that can only mean that the modern A6 and A7 variants must be vulnerable from all sides, even the front.
>hurr, hurr, handheld ATGMs can surely penetrate the front of a MBT even if it has 1.7k mm protection against HEAT
>hurr, hurr, soft- and hardkill systems on modern MBTs are totally useless to protect the sides and rear
>hurr, hurr, if a tank gets penetrated in the side or rear that means tanks im general are useless, even though the entire crew survived and the tank is still repairable
>hurr, hurr, a WW2 tank gun with 230mm of penetration at 100m will surely go through 600mm raw material thickness worth of composite armor which makes it 800mm of effective armor against AP
>hurr, hurr, anti tank mines are more than a area denial device able to only immobilize a tank because

>>32421595
>I-have-no-idea-what-im-talking-about: The Post

I've been to Germany and trained with them. They blew us the fuck out when they were the Op4. They're all about quality over quantity, like the US army

>>32429878
>Remember - A-10 manages to damage modern armor reliably with a 30mm gun.
No it doesn't. Go look up that drawing book for A-10 pilots (a lovely christmas gift!), and you'll see they had trouble against T-62's, nevermind anything modern. Nowadays, doctrine for the A-10 is to use it's gun again infantry and light armored targets, and use missiles for actual tanks.

>Stukas had 37mm.
Yet that 37mm isn't going to do as well as that 30mm. Even with APCR tungsten ammo, I doubt it'll be as effective as APFSDS depleted uranium.

Nazis by far.

>Similar in numbers of over population but military is hundred of times larger (~327k vs a few million)
>thousands of more vehicles
>millions of more weapons


Here's another thing people forget, many posts such as >>32422731 reference a technological advantage, while this of course would lead to heavy casualties on the nazi side, sheer numbers would overwhelm the very weak modern force. Nazis weren't Vietnamese or sand niggers, they were well trained and organized. 1000 nazis vs 100 modern Germans would result in relatively heavy casualties but still a nazi victory. Vehicle wise they are very out matched but sheer numbers would destroy the infrastructure for modern planes and tanks.
>>32427641
Wow pol needs to leave saying a more funded more ideologically driven army which out numbers the other 50 to one can win xdd

>>32423534
great wallpaper, thank you.

>>32432931
Suppose you're right, and it's 327K vs. 6.55 million (the peak in 1943). All that means it that modern Germany has a bigger reserve, but that doesn't matter.

The thousands of vehicles have no chance. Prop planes get deployed, and they'll get destoryed by modern jets or AA. Within hours of conflict, the Nazi Luftwaffe will have lost operational capacity. The air will not have been theirs for a minute.

Tanks? A modern Puma will rip everything up to a Pz4 a new one with the 30mm autocannon, nevermind the actual missiles it has, nevermind a Leo2. Also, the modern infantryman actually has some anti-tank capabilities.

Artillery? The minute they light up their ineffective gunfire, counterbattery fire is going to destroy them. mdoerna rty has a massive range advantage.

Simply put, it'll be 2000 Nazi's vs. 100 Modern Germans. There's only one way they can use those numbers to their advantage: massed assault. By the time that massed assault has had a round of cluster munitions dropped on them, than the arty comes in, and after that there's still tanks with airburst munitions. Suppose they don't get utterly decimated (they will), they might even have 500 men left to attack those 100. Suppose they can even shoot all at the same time, deploying their numerical advantage - the modern infantryman has a range advantage thanks to optics, a rate of fire that's 5 times higher, and they're armored to negate submachinegun fire and Nazi CQC tactics. There literally isn't a range window where they couldn't hold them off while more fire support comes thundering in.

And, after a while, it's night time. Then it'll really begin.

>>32421746
>The modern US had its ordinance supply stretched to the breaking point by the low intensity wars in the mideast.

There's a difference between "running low on weapons ordered years ago, in amounts intended to replace those expended in training" and "the highest expenditure rate a modern nation can support at war".

Especially when ordered in large amounts weapons like TV and laser guided bombs are cheap.

>>32433001
Once again, the nazis weren't uncoordinated by any means and modern armies are even more vulnerable to logistical damages. Yes older tanks are worse than modern ones, but that doesn't matter when the modern ones are already under equipped from the start and you only have 200 of them.


It'll be a sheer numbers war and the nazis have a clear advantage. This isn't them vs the US, it's them versus a country which has an undersized underfunded military which was built to fight until foreign help arrives.

>>32433053
>the nazis weren't uncoordinated by any means
They will be once modern SIGINT destroys their comms.

>modern armies are even more vulnerable to logistical damages.
Which are practically impossible to achieve. The only way Nazi Germany could attack those supply lines would ba by air (impossible), artillery (impossible), night raids (lol), and conventional warfare. Actually on second though, modern armies aren't as vulnerable to logisitcal damage. WW2 Germany couldn't make airbridges (e.g. Stalingrad), modern Germany can.

>but that doesn't matter when the modern ones are already under equipped from the start and you only have 200 of them.
[citation needed] on the underequipped, and I don't think you appreciate what a 200 round belt of 30mm APFSDS will do to a column of WW2 tanks. Not a single WW2 tank, no an entire column. Nazi Germany had a total tank production of about 25000. Modern Germany has about 500 (230 Leo's, 200 Marders, 80 Puma's) AFV's that can destroy anything in Nazi inventory, up to and including Konigstigers. That's not even counting the Wiesels, Boxers, and man-portable antitank weapons. Now, that sounds like 50 to 1 odds, but it isn't (especially after you consider how many of those 25000 were operational). Massed tanks assault of 50 to 1? Modern artillery and air support will quickly reduce those numbers. - and I'm absolutely positive that anything below 20 to 1 can still be won by a modern AFV. Fire the antitank missiles at the improtant looking targets (if arty hasn't dealt with them already), track the remaining tanks simulatneously, and start popping rounds. A 200 round belt will be plenty, nevermind what an actual Leo could do. Only about 10% of the Nazi's guns will be effective at 2000 meters, yet a Leo or Puma will be perfectly comfortable shooting you up at that distance.

Sheer numbers don't mean shit when they get shot to pieces by indiscriminately killing bombs and missiles.

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>>32426093

>>32421378
WW2 begos libruls :DDDDD

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It would be over before it began.
Telegram for a, Mr. Hitler?
Just kidding.
It's the KSK inserted at 0200 with air weapons team support.
Only question is whether or not Adolf will be clever enough to commit suicide before flashbang goes off.
Otherwise he'll be tried in Nuremberg and hanged in Tel Aviv.

>>32421378
That completely depends on their order of battle.
Nazi regiments became fully armored-mechanized after three revisions of originally having Armored, Elite-mechanized infantry, and Infantry separated at Division level. Infantry Divisions by 1942 had been fazed out by "Grenadier" heavy infantry as frontline assault units, by definition "anti-armored handheld" soldiers. By 1944 all reserves of Nazi military had been ether deployed or destroyed, reorganization of lower unit standard and age limit made up for the originally strict age and fitness standard diminishing manpower of originally strict age and fitness standard. National Guard tier Volksgrenadier divisions were formed from exhausted yet experienced Infantry divisions that are now defunct by equipment due to the evolution of Allied mechanized and armored combined arms. The remaining veterans not tasked to Volks regiment NCO duty were in the Fusilier honor-elite regular infantry company with first priority of weapons and mechanical assets. There were too few tanks remaining to have them be independent divisions, so many armored battalions were split to company and platoon strength as a mechanized unit detachment.

As we start again the reformed western Bundeswehr is composed of Land, Sea, Air, after year 2000 with an addition of Medical branch (similar to the U.S. Medical Corps but more staffed and to be used as a career instead of front-line medical triage to support all branches), and Logistical Command and Control that includes an entire branch tasked to forward base construction and management. With the post unification of Germany in 1990, most of it's industrial sectors had been reclaimed to produce the same if not more logistical parts and munitions.
Overall with it's revival of command structure and military organization without the evolution jump of technology would have pretty much been the same effective force as 1944 OKW strategic revision but with better management of Logistics.

>>32423213
Did you just compare a full size rifle cartridge to a subsonic pistol cartridge?

>>32432920
>No it doesn't
I said "damage", not "take out".

>>32423213
>Nazi Germany had their Stukas running 24/7, as I recall, to try and keep the 6th Army supplied at Stalingrad in late 1942.
Ju-87 was not used for aerial supply.

> Spot them on radar, face them, use the techno-gizmos to "lock on" or whatever the fuck
No comment.

>and the AC-130 would cause utter chaos and havoc
>Germany
>AC-130
>Germany
>AC-130

Fucking fuck is this post bait?

>>32421824
>Doesn't know how to quote people.
The kiddies sure out for Winter break.

>>32421378
Inb4 they team up to make Germany great again

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>>32421378
>modern day germany

>israel catches wind of this
>israel rallies up all the conscripts, professionals and reservists they can muster
>bulldoze straight through the northern arabic provinces and turkey, thus claiming constantinople as jewish clay
>finally reach germany
>[SHEKELING INTENSIFIES]
>finally win and somehow end up with more races other than palestinians to subjugate
>bulldoze houses of indigenous people for the housing of jewish citizens
>europe ends up being invaded by jews instead of swathes of arabs and africans

>>32421378
Any answer other than modern Germany is retarded.
Their exact knowledge of every refinement, battalion, army group, their leaders, their leaders habits and thoughts, every single piece of equipment and the keys to their comms security alone would guarantee victory.

>>32422761
>certainly G-36's
Small arms won't make a difference.
>Jack booted extremists willing to die for the 1000 year Reich
You're describing a small number of troops in that case. Additionally fanatics that where uniforms and fight in the field would be very easy to kill, they die like any other.
>Insane will to fight
They didn't have that, they were in too deep and had no choice.

>>32434728
>Small arms won't make a difference.
With this kind of dramatic gap? It kind of will.

>>32433387
That's the comparison I'd like to see, Nazi Germany's military at its peak VS. the Modern IDF.

>>32433387
Why have the KSK do it when you could use the Sayeret Matcal or Mossad operatives.

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>>32422106
>10000 men with MG42's, Panzers, and Mausers defeat 1500 with Leopards and G36's every time.

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>>32421378
>>32421595
>>32422142
>>32422219
>>32422460
>>32422663
>>32423059

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>Nazi Germany
>winning a war against anyone but smaller nations it can bully and France

Should I post the one about how much of a colossal fuckup their civilian government was, too?

>>32435049
Please do.

>inb4 kikekikekike

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>>32435100

>>32435049
Germany understood that trucks were better than horses. They didn't rely on horses because they wanted to.

>>32435049
>YOU HAVE HORSES! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!
Always gets me.

>>32435111
But that doesn't change the fact that they DID rely so heavily on horses, and how big of a drawback that was for a 1940's army involved in a war.

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>>32435109
And let's not forget the brilliant man who was running their foreign office, who ALSO had managed to convince Hitler that both Italy would help him invade Poland and that Britain+France would be totally cool with him doing so.

>>32435129
Right, my point is simply that German military's shortcomings in logistics were not due to incompetence or inefficiency but due simply to Germany not having the resources or industry to equip a 200 division army while also fielding a large air force and building 2000 subs.

>>32435144
Then maybe they shouldn't have gone starting wars like that.

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>>32435049
Let's not forget their "war-winning medium tank".

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>>32432316
>They're all about quality over quantity, like the US army
>US army
>Quality not quantity

B8 so gr8 does not frustrate.

>>32435049
USSR was even more dependent on horses during WWII. Hell, EVERY side that was involved in land logistics used horses then, because demand for trucks and railways was way above the supply.

German logistics of WWII were shit quality compared to today's, but above the most of it's opponents (even US at times), and orders of magnitude higher in quantity due to the insane amounts of material movements required to maintain something the scale of Ostfront.

Bottom line - actual conflict described in the OP would go mostly in the favor of Nazis, but with INSANELY high casualties (making USSR's performance in first counteroffensives of 1943 look stellar in comparison), and it would end in something akin to results of Winter War for the Soviets - technically a victory, but de facto a Pyrrhic one, with the opponent losing some ground but not actually taken out.

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>>32421692
Es ist "Die juden."

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>>32435236
*Juden. Sorry forgot they capitalize the nouns.

>>32435109
That's, again, very close to what Soviets had at the time, with all actual power being in the hands of VKP(b), and the titular Soviets being puppet institutions. Daily reminder that such system is actually more efficient in wartime due to centralization of authority. Compare to all the infighting Roosevelt had to go through to deal with the neutrality policy. And he would still probably fail if not for Pearl Harbor.

>>32435141
Let's not forget the brilliant people of British and French foreign offices and PERSONALLY Chamberlain and Churchill were totally cool with anschluss of Austria and partition of Czechoslovakia, convinced that "the Appeasement policy totally works, the Germans will keep us safe from the Red Plague and surely will not try to take over the fucking Europe". American neutrality and the fiasco with prediction of Japan's strategy don't even deserve a comment. It was a time of MASSIVE overhauls and movements. Everyone fucked up royally. If the modern political offices with modern expertise ended up facing the same task, they would also fuck it all up.

>>32435151
True dat.

>>32435313
Yes, but Ribbentrop went down as the worst during all of that. It's one thing to misjudge your erstwhile enemies, it's another to enrage your own allies on a regular basis.

>>32435373
>Yes, but Ribbentrop went down as the worst during all of that
Well, probably true.

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>>32435378
>>32435313
>Ribbentrop often displayed a fundamental misunderstanding of British politics and society. During the abdication crisis of December 1936, Ribbentrop reported to Berlin that it had been precipitated by an anti-German Jewish-Masonic-reactionary conspiracy to depose Edward (whom Ribbentrop represented as a staunch friend of Germany), and that civil war would soon break out in Britain between the supporters of the king and those of Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin. Ribbentrop's civil-war statements were greeted with incredulity by those British people who heard them
>Ciano complained in his diary that his arguments "had no effect" on Ribbentrop, who simply refused to believe any information that did not fit in with his preconceived notions. Despite Ciano's efforts to persuade Ribbentrop to put off the attack on Poland until 1942, so as to allow the Italians time to get ready for war, Ribbentrop was adamant that Germany had no interest in a diplomatic solution of the Danzig question and only wanted a war to wipe Poland off the map. The Salzburg meeting marked the moment when Ciano's dislike of Ribbentrop was transformed into outright hatred, and of the beginning of his disillusionment with the pro-German foreign policy that he had championed up to that time
>In the fall of 1940, Ribbentrop made a sustained but unsuccessful effort to have Spain enter the war on the Axis side. During his talks with the Spanish foreign minister, Ramón Serrano Súner, Ribbentrop affronted Súner with his tactless behaviour, especially his suggestion that Spain cede the Canary Islands to Germany. An angry Súner replied that he would rather see the Canaries sink into the Atlantic then cede an inch of Spanish territory.

This is Mr. Bean Goes To The Reichstag tier. How can one man be THIS bad at diplomacy?

>>32435434
>/pol/ becomes foreign minister episode

>>32435434
Actually, not THAT bad.

British Civil War bullshit was propaganda for the confidence of his own people. See Soviets going for decades convincing their own that "a proletarian revolution in the countries of Declining Capitalism is at hand, like, right at the door", or US foreign policy trying to convince the US that young Russian Federation is about to fall apart in a hundred Chechya-like conflicts in mid 90s.

Occupation of Poland had to happen as early as possible - Soviets were rearming themselves rapidly, and were eager to retake the lands lost in Polish-Soviet War. Had they stalled, Stalin might have taken the most of Poland to himself, opposed to just the Western Belarus he got historically.

Spanish policies was just an enormous string of fuck-ups on behalf of every party involved.

>>32435491
* trying to convince the UN
selffix

>>32435491
No, that wasn't propaganda. Those were the reports he gave to the government. He was reporting to Hitler that the UK was about to fall into a Jewish-Masonic-backed civil war.

And while they needed to invade sooner rather than later, you can inform your allies that with a bit more tact than he did. It's literally his fucking job to be diplomatic.

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>>32435533
>No, that wasn't propaganda. Those were the reports he gave to the government
the shit mentioned was ALSO reports given to the government. Another good example - the solid conviction of US that a small success in the Bay of Pigs will be enough to spark a coup against Castro on Cuba.

>It's literally his fucking job to be diplomatic.
So is hers. She's not being very good about it so far.

All that might have something to do with the facts that:
- Diplomats are still imperfect human beings.
- They are not magical foretellers.
- The dominant power in any political block rarely bothers with behaving itself diplomatically with it's subservient allies. On the contrary - they tend to keep them on a short leash.

>>32435597
Oh, and forgot another part:
- Any person holding an important political office and expressing any sort of heavy opinion is universally the result of not just his or her own judgement, but also multiple agendas involved in the political intrigue that got them into the chair in question.

>>32435597
>Germany in 1939
>the dominant power in the Pact of Steel
That was back when they were both seen as equals, and when Italy's contribution to the war was valued by Hitler.

>>32435597
>>32435624
Final point is - Ferman foreign policy was not HILARIOUSLY INCOMPETENT. It was rather on level with everyone else's in the shitstorm that was the first half of XX century. But given the German ambition, they were not in a situation to allow themselves fuck up as much as everyone else. To succeed, their foreign policy conduct had to be near perfect, MUCH better than those of their opponents. It was not.

>>32435682
Fuck
*German

>>32435682
Wat? I was calling von Ribbentrop a fucking incompetent diplomat, which he was. I'm not saying shit about their foreign policy in general, just that he was specifically ill-suited to carrying it out since his only diplomatic skills were kissing Hitler's ass.

>>32425033
>they have a lot to bomb

Not really. Drop one in every HQ, all leadership is toast, everyone runs about like headless chickens then bam, surrenders.

>>32426585
>So even with heavy tanks, Nazi Germany's fucked in terms of armoured vehicles. As we've covered, they're also fucked for air superiority, and also as we've covered, their Infantry would be useless at night meanwhile even during the day they would be outmatched.

Nazis would probably win air superiority. They had more combat aircraft than modern day Luftwaffe has missiles. Luftwaffe has always relied on USAF to supply munitions, it goes back to 60's and 70's. Now German politicians are generally shocked when they have to actually allocate money to buy reasonable stockpiles of missiles for air force.

When it comes to overall performance of military. Bundeswehr is one of most incompetent armies in the world.

>>32425410
Sorry, I agree but why do you and other people keep talking about ju-87's downing aircraft? That isn't what they were for and they were shit at it in 1942 let alone now.

>>32435813
>Not really. Drop one in every HQ, all leadership is toast
Luftwaffe were able to do it to Soviets since 1941. Somehow it didn't work. Allies were able to do it to Germans since 1944. Somehow it didn't work. Both Russia and Coalition ware able to do it to IS since 2014. Somehow it doesn't work.

>>32435817
>Nazis would probably win air superiority
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooo. Their fighters have ZERO capacity to somehow interfere with the operation of modern jet aircraft, even if the latter are low in numbers. Meanwhile the prop bombers and ground attackers are out of the picture due to Bundeswehr land AA capabilities. Wehrmacht would probably win, but it only at the costs of HUGE casualties, and they'd never have any sort of aerial superiority.

>>32434768
The Nazis getting hold of G-36's will not make a difference, I think you misunderstood.

>>32435817
>Nazis would probably win air superiority.
And with this, the upper limits of stupidity was finally reached.

>They had more combat aircraft than modern day Luftwaffe has missiles.
Just incredible.

>>32435191
>logistics above most of its opponents
So just Russia, but even then not really.
>It would go mostly in favour of the Nazis
You're trolling or delusional

>>32435914
>Luftwaffe were able to do it to Soviets since 1941
Luftwaffe was barely able to fight off Soviet air raids. VVS generally had air superiority on the Eastern Front, memes notwithstanding.

>>32435914
>Luftwaffe could do it to Russians
Not to anywhere the same extent of precision as today
>Allie's did it to the Germans
See above and also.... it fucking worked to the point where German units couldn't move during the day
>HURRR it doesn't wotk against IS
They're not a conventional military and it does work.

>>32421595
>what are atgm's
>what is composite armor
>what is CIWS
>what are supersonic jet aircraft
>what are guided munitions
>what are BVR missiles

you're fucking retarded

>>32436006
>And with this, the upper limits of stupidity was finally reached.

Modern German military would run out of ammunition in matter of days. Ammunition just doesn't appear out of thin air. Yes, their equipment way more capable, but pretty useless without ammunition.

Who would win in firefight?

Günther with Mauser 98K and 60 rounds or Fritz with G36 and 8 empty magazines.

>>32436222
>what are guided munitions
>what are BVR missiles

Something Lufwaffe would run out of after couple sorties per plane.

>>32436340
>holds up the Bundeswehr's limited supplies as one of their weaknesses
>assumes the Wehrmacht would have infinite ammo

The Wehrmacht infantry squad was organized around the LMG assigned to the squad, anyways. Your precious MG-42 would have the exact same ammo difficulties.

>>32436360
Those are 1/2 sorties per plane of guarenteed kills without being engaged by the enemy.

Fighters BTFO before they where aware of them bounced from above their ceilings with no way of detecting launches

Tank columns wrecked from inside cloud cover with no chance of return fire.

Factories dead from low level terrain masking runs under the level of flak batteries, only AA systems being optical hand cranked 20 and 30mm cannon

>>32436340
>Ammunition just doesn't appear out of thin air
Apparently it does for the 1940s army.

>>32436360
Fair point. Even so, the climb rate and speed advantage of modern Luftwaffe fighters, combined with high fire-rate cannons gives them the edge.

>>32436360
M61 Vulcans will shit all over MG 151's and Mk 108's

>>32436360
>>Something Lufwaffe would run out of after couple sorties per plane.
So that would mean, what, after the 1941 LW has lost around 1000-1500 aircraft?

>>32436453
>Fair point. Even so, the climb rate and speed advantage of modern Luftwaffe fighters, combined with high fire-rate cannons gives them the edge.
and dont forget the huge asset that no WW2 vintage German fighter has to my knowledge, radar gunsights

>>32436488
Yep. Having the ability to lead your target and converge your fire at the right point is pretty handy.

>>32435817
>Nazis would probably win air superiority
How, exactly? Any kind of modern jet from the past 30 years would run circles around their best planes, not to talk about weaponry, a prop dogfighter stands zero chance, they're absolutely outranged and absolutely outspeeded.

>>32436340
>Modern German military would run out of ammunition in matter of days
I'm sorry what, would Germany just not procure ammunition and supply chains when war happens? Are you out of your fucking mind?

For that matter, Nazi Germany themselves infamously suffered some pretty bad ammunition shortages.

>>32436459
This too, a rip of that shit would tear through an entire formation of prop planes.

>>32421378
The Bundeswehr would wipe the floor with the Wehrmacht, Waffen-SS, Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe without trouble. The Flakvierlings and 88mm AA guns don't mean shit against Eurofighters which will drop guided cluster bombs on the Panzerdivisions from 40K ft, the King Tigers won't be able to kill Leo 2s even from ten meters in the back, Milan missiles will fuck up anything from so long away that the Wehrmacht wouldn't be able to see what happens... Fuck, the Leo 2A6s could just ram Panzers should they run out of ammo after doing a contest of who can nail more Pz. IVs with one single APFSDS round.

Shit, the East German NVA from 1985 would smash the entire Nazi German forces at their prime without an issue, even their second line stuff like T-55s and BMP-1s would be largely superior to anything from the opposition.

Plus, the Wehrmacht relied on fucking horses to carry shit around. At the top of its mechanisation, 20% of the WH used vehicles. So, you've got a horse drawn army against high quality MBTs, Gen 4+ fighters, and modern C3I.

It would be like Gate, but even better, since seeing Nazis getting BTFO is the best thing after bondage and Trappist beers.

>>32436390
>>Your precious MG-42 would have the exact same ammo difficulties.
>"Be kaerful with die ammunitzion Klaus, it must last!"
>*BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT*
>"I'm zorry Hans, was ist that? Hand me anotzher belt!"
SCHEEEEIISE

>>32436459
As I mentioned earlier Radar gunsights i'd also like to point out 1 thing on this one.

Proximity Fused Shells where not a thing in WW2.

>>32436810
They were, but the Axis never successfully deployed them.

>>32436810
>Proximity Fused Shells where not a thing in WW2.

They were. But only the Americans had them.

>>32436866
>>32436904
Ok I'll correct myself for pedanticities sake.
They where not a thing in any production form for the Germans and even for the allies they where not in anyway miniaturized enough to be used in aircraft armament, unless I've missed some bit of info the 1st effective VT where designed for the 5" DP batteries on American CA and BB's

>>32436390
>assumes the Wehrmacht would have infinite ammo

No, but in 1942 German economy was producing a lot of ammo.

>The Wehrmacht infantry squad was organized around the LMG assigned to the squad, anyways. Your precious MG-42 would have the exact same ammo difficulties.

Ammunition supply problems for Bundeswehr would be order of magnitude worse, especially when it comes missiles and other high tech weaponry. Even WWII Wehrmacht would curbstomp them long before modern Germany could turn its economy to war material production.

>>32436419
>Apparently it does for the 1940s army.

Germany didn't have any ammunition production during WWII?

Modern vs nazi-Germany war would be extremely one sided bloodbath for few days, massive casualties for Wehrmacht, then Bundeswehr would start to run out of munitions.

>>32436465

Possibly bit more losses for nazis, but that is pretty much the point.

>>32436701

Modern German military would run out of missiles in matter of days. All that tech would be slightly useless without ammunition. Whatever would be left from WWII Luftwaffe would be still in action.

Most important unit in Luftwaffe ammunition supply chain isn't even part of Luftwaffe, it is 702nd Munitions Support Squadrons of USAF.

>>32436746
>Shit, the East German NVA from 1985 would smash the entire Nazi German forces at their prime without an issue, even their second line stuff like T-55s and BMP-1s would be largely superior to anything from the opposition.

East German NVA from 1985 would smash current day Bundeswehr.

>>32436008
>You're trolling or delusional
Wars exist beyond who causes the most casualties. There is such a thing as a strategic victory despite overwhelming losses. Or did Vietnam become a US satellite while I was not looking?

>>32437104
>Modern vs nazi-Germany war would be extremely one sided bloodbath for few days, massive casualties for Wehrmacht, then Bundeswehr would start to run out of munitions.
Lack of enormous munitions supplies would not be the biggest of BW's issues - they just won't have the numbers to respond to all of WM's actions. BW's forces would solidly win every encounter, until they found out that they are cut out from all supplies and surrounded by forces outnumbering them 10 to 1, which just moved in without resistance because BW had no hands to stop them.

>Modern German military would run out of missiles in matter of days
Not really, as they don't have the amount platforms to chew through their supplies so fast, but in about a week they would start feeling the ammo starve forcing them to be much more considerate with it's use, and in 3 weeks they'd barely have 1 or 2 supplied platforms. If /k/ommandos feel that those 200 tanks and half a hundred jets can annihilate the entirety of Wehrmacht in those 3 weeks - well, I'm certainly not the most delusional one here then.

>East German NVA from 1985 would smash current day Bundeswehr.
Truth.

>>32437141
>thinking nazi Germany could even achieve a strategic victory in this scenario
Confirmed for deluded. The ability to know exactly what they were telling each other and where the broadcasts were coming from alone would ensure that your scenario is impossibe, let alone everything else in the thread.

>>32437104
> All that tech would be slightly useless without ammunition.
Can you explain how the WW2 Luftwaffe would successfully engage the modern Aircraft with Radar, Radar gunsights providing accurate lead info, Proximity fused 20mm Shells that can
climb a dozen time harder than prop plane
Climb above the Prop planes engagement altitudes
Engage at speeds multiples of the max speed of WW2 fighters
Detect the prop planes with radar meaning the ww2 fighters will literally NEVER have the drop on them
Operate effective hard weather / night ops

Even if limited to cannons only the WW2 Luftwaffe is outmatched by modern aircraft

You are literally trying to justify that Ta-152, FW-190 and BF-109 could survive a sky with Tornados and Eurofighters in it.

Bear in mind in the entire battle of Britain Germany lost approximately 2000 aircraft, but now instead of everytime they are attacking they are losing aircraft every time they send them up, not when they are over targets

>>32437214
First
>The ability to know exactly what they were telling each other
>implying Nazis would not update their encryption upon entering a conflict with a new side.
>implying modern BW's encryption specialists know all the Nazi encryption protocols for every years and have all the necessary decryption data at hand constantly.
Hell, Allies DID listen in on the absolute most of German communications by the very late war. Yet that did not exactly cause them to just drop dead then and there. Even the Allies bombing raids still had insufficient efficiency.

Second -
>and where the broadcasts were coming from
Triangulation was available since forever. Even the earliest radio communication protocols efficiently prevented the pinpointing of the HQs by the means of radio listening - usually via placing the broadcasting point quite some distance away from it.

>>32437206
>hundred jets
105 Eurofighters and 75 Tornado IDS is not 50

>>32437289
>implying Nazis would not update their encryption upon entering a conflict with a new side.
>Implying the famous "Enigma" encoding wouldn't be cracked in mere minutes by modern computers brute forcing the simulations until they have the ciphers

>>32437206
200 tanks are about 10th of what Germany had operational at any given time. You honestly think 200 Leopard 2 tanks can't annihilate 2000 Pz IVs?

>>32437257
>Can you explain how the WW2 Luftwaffe would successfully engage the modern Aircraft
They don't need to engage them. They just need to deal damage to the land forces and installations. A LOT of planes would be lost in process. Some attacks would have no effect at all. But some will, as BW simply does not have enough Eurofighters to intercept more than a couple bomber groups at once, and even then they can't all be in the air at once. And quite soon, the modern Luftwaffe will indeed be left without munitions to send most of their jets for another mission. The Nazi Luftwaffe will by then be a pale shadow of what it was before, but it will be only hampered by BW's land AA platforms, which are also not quite numerous. They will be able to hit most infrastructure and command targets, simply because BW will have NOTHING to cover them with.

>>32437306
>105 Eurofighters and 75 Tornado
Oh my sweet summer child.
http://www.ttu.fr/bundeswehr-armements-operationnels/
>Dans l’armée de l’air, sur les 216 chasseurs Tornado et Eurofighter, seuls 69 sont en état de décoller.
>Out of Luftwaffe's 216 Tornado and Eurofighter airrafts, only 69 are currently in flying condition.

>>32437337
If we're talking Pz IV's Marders could deal with them happily with cannons

>>32437289
>Allie's listened by late war
They'd been listening for most of the war, whilst simultaneously fooling the Germans into thinking they hadn't cracked it
>They'd change it
They were stupid enough to keep the enigma system the entire war and refused to believe it had been broken. I doubt they'd be any smarter. Moreover, even if they did, breaking world war two level cyphers would be much easier today
>Didn't make them drop dead then and there
They lost.
>Their bombimg wasn't efficient
No shit, it was very accurate, modern bombing, not so much.
Give up, you're wrong.
>They could triangulate back then
Yeah, sure they did, but they couldn't do it from an aircraft then drop ordinance in it at the same time.

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>>32422813
If you want to muh heritage over a german leader at least choose Bismarck. Hitler is for edgy contrarians.

>>32437320
>Implying the famous "Enigma" encoding wouldn't be cracked in mere minutes by modern computers brute forcing the simulations until they have the ciphers
You officially don't know shit about encryption. Congratulations.

>>32437346
>http://www.ttu.fr/bundeswehr-armements-operationnels/
18 combat ready CH-53's
27 combat ready Tiger heli's.
23 combat ready Pumas
41 combat ready PzH 2000
167 combat ready Leopard.

Fucking beautiful

>>32437337
>You honestly think 200 Leopard 2 tanks can't annihilate 2000 Pz IVs?
No, they can't. They'll annihilate about 500 Pz IV. In the meantime, the rest of Pz IV, instead of facing their end like true samurai, will cowardly be achieving strategic goals somewhere else, where there are no Leopards as they are all very busy.

>>32422813
He was Austrian.

>>32437346
>>Out of Luftwaffe's 216 Tornado and Eurofighter airrafts, only 69 are currently in flying condition.
Peace time airframe hours limits =/= non functional
I'm not implying all are air ready but are you seriously trying to that non of these are airworthy for scrambles if war broke out or could be brought to minimum airworthiness in a matter of days at most?

>and even then they can't all be in the air at once
Again are you implying that somehow the Modern forces would be majorly limited in capacity to get frame airborne yet somehow Nazi Germany could blacken the skies without heed for fuel and ammo logistics?

The Modern luft waffe would be able to disable most Nazi airfield with 1 or 2 PGM crippling a runway meaning the lufwaffe would be operating from open fields further damaging the WW2 forces airpower and capacity to launch, them able to cluster bomb dozens of aircraft in the open fields

>>32437365
>They'd been listening for most of the war, whilst simultaneously fooling the Germans into thinking they hadn't cracked it
No, they were not. Through the most of the war it has been a constant cryptography race, where Allies were sometimes able to crack the data while it's still fresh and sometimes were not. Germans just refused to believe that sometimes the Allies ear had them. It is only by late 1944 that the Alles were able to crack the codes constantly and consistently.

>They were stupid enough to keep the enigma system the entire war and refused to believe it had been broken
Enigma is NOT A SINGLE MACHINE. It's a HUGE fucking family that was perpetually changed, developed and improved through the war, never leaving the British intelligence short on work.

>Moreover, even if they did, breaking world war two level cyphers would be much easier today
>You officially don't know shit about encryption. Congratulations.

>They lost.
By the virtue of millions of lives of Soviet soldiers, not by some bullshit magical bombing strike to Secret Nerve Center.

>Yeah, sure they did, but they couldn't do it from an aircraft then drop ordinance in it at the same time.
>target lock on a comm radio from a strike plane
Sorry. I did not recognize your efforts as bait prior. Please, carry on.

>>32422221
Even the lastest German WWII tanks wouldn't be able of penetrating the side armor of modern tanks.

>>32437390
>You officially don't know shit about encryption. Congratulations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Enigma_keylist_3_rotor.jpg
Are you saying that a modern computer couldn't break the Cipher on a mechanical encoding? there are only a limited number of variables

>>32437425
>in a matter of days at most
In a matter of days, German tanks would be rolling into plenty of the airfields. It is not the time they have.

>Again are you implying that somehow the Modern forces would be majorly limited in capacity to get frame airborne yet somehow Nazi Germany could blacken the skies without heed for fuel and ammo logistics
They would not nearly be able to "blacken the skies". But the sheer numbers of Nazi Luftwaffe would be well enough to overwhelm the BW Luftwaffe's ability to respond, and cause significant damage to the land forces and assets, even if at high costs.

>>32437468
>there are only a limited number of variables
It does not matter, as due to messages brevity, the amount of encryption levels and the message codes themselves, there would be about a few hundred ways to decrypt and read each intercepted message, while only one reading is true. Allies in WWII very often had code tables as a tip to help their cryptographers to pick the right reading.

>>32437390
>where there are no leopards
It's been pointed out over a dozen times in this thread that you don't need leopards to pop axis tanks, a fucking wieaelf with the right setup would get the job done.

>>32437613
I know that pretty much every BW combat unit has AT means capable of taking out WM armor. But BW has only so many combat units, while WM at it's peak has well over enough forces to attack EVERYTHING IN MODERN GERMANY AT ONCE FROM ALL SIDES. BW protects it's key assets, and does it with easy, wiping the floor with WM forces trying to attacks them, but in the meantime WM takes the rest of Germany meeting 0 resistance, as BW simply has no forces to prevent this.

>>32437455
No, just no, allied intelligence completely curbstomped German intelligence, the Germans didn't 'sometines' not know they were being listened to, they consistently failed to realise it.
>enigma is not just a single machine
Try reading before replying
>They didn't lose due to single magical HQ strikes
Yes, no one could do that back then, obviously, hence why I didn't fucking imply that. They can now.
>HURRR much Soviets
Too obvious
>HURRR dey can't lock onto radio from plane
ARM.

>>32437540
>In a matter of days, German tanks would be rolling into plenty of the airfields. It is not the time they have.
Because ofcourse, as with the rest of this idea the Nazi's have unlimited logistics support and can mobilize and keep fueled all their forces from all theaters throughout the entire war

>there would be about a few hundred ways to decrypt and read each intercepted message
You fundamentally misunderstand, a few dozen modern PC's can brute force what would have been weeks of work for WW2 decryption in a matter of a day at most and you can network the computer decryption in a way that is literally millions of times faster than human teams could work. Brute forcing is the act of learning the ciphers through running all the possible variations and cross referencing different messages to verify it.
The second you have the ciphers for the decoding you are then just working out what obfuscation has been written into the true message.

>>32421378
>>32437104
>>32437206
>>32437337
Ok listen up wehraboos and /k/ommandos because this is what will happen...

Modern Germany would use there far more advanced radio and EW equipment to detect ww2 Germany's headquarters and hear there battleplan's/military positions, then they'd bomb the majority of WW2 Germany's headquarters and jam the rest essentially leaving WW2 Germany's armies as a headless snake.

The second phase would involve Modern Germany bombing and bombarding the living shit out of the main concentrations of WW2 Germany's forces (which effective recon and precision technology allows them to hit with devastating effect), forcing WW2 Germany's army groups to disperse and deny them the full advantage of there numerical superiority.

The Third phase would involve Modern Germany's armored forces carving through WW2 Germany's disorganized and dispersed armored formations demolishing and routing the main components of any WW2 Germany's hope of an Blitzkrieg. (note: at this point there are mass retreats and surrendering among WW2 Germany's mostly conscript army)

The final phase involves the bulk of Modern day Germany's Infantry force mopping up the seriously demoralized, disorganized and destroyed WW2 Germany forces. Where there is strong resistance Airstrikes and Armor assaults quickly collapse them.

The level of destruction and inability for WW2 Germanys armies to retaliate to there destruction leads to mass defections and collapse in Moral which leads to the vast majority of WW2 Germany's forces not even fighting instead leading to full on route and surrenders, the terms for a truce are dictated by Modern Germany within the first two weeks of combat.

END.

File: 887896_hogans_heroes.jpg (69KB, 267x200px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 267x200px

>>32421378
Nazi Germany. My mind is telling me no, but my BODY, my BODY is telling me yeah.

>>32437664
Then BW vaporises every HQ that Nazi Germany has their command is dead and they surrender. Quit it, you look fucking stupid.
>WM at its peak could attack everything in Germany from all sides at once
I don't usually say this unironically, but kill yourself.
>>32437540
>Wehrmacht tanks would be in airfields
No, they'd be destroyed by hand held AT weapons and the myriad BW vehicles that would be easily capable of destroying WM vehicles. they don't have to get them all, just enough to get them to surrender (being nailed from 2km at night by an enemy you can't see is demoralising).
>Blacken the skies
They couldn't win the BoB they aren't going to do any better in Germany, especially when their airfields are razed and their aircraft are decimated in the skies. And guess what? There's almost fuck all they could do to ground units with their aircraft, they could barely do anything in World War two, they'll do fuck all now. SPAAGs, manpads, hell anything with an auto announcer.

>HURRR they'd completely change their retarded cyphers and comms usage because they'd suddenly realised that it isn't working
Doubtful. They failed last time, no reason to believe they wouldn't second time round.

>>32437671
>No, just no, allied intelligence completely curbstomped German intelligence
Yes. It was enough to give them a reliable data on a lot of German communications, while Germans could not do the same. They did not, however, have the full printout of every German communication. Most of those were not even intercepted, and of those that were - all took time to decrypt, and not nearly all were decrypted successfully until they were no longer important. And THAT, was a result of literally OVER A DECADE of constant work of Polish and British intelligence, including lots of operations to obtain the German communication codes and protocols.

>Too obvious
Great argument there.

>They can now
You successfully intercepted and decrypted a German HQ comm. It says that _EAGLE_ _DANCES_ _BLACK_ _STONE_. You know from other messages that _EAGLE_ probably means top HQ, while _DANCE_ means new dislocation. never caught an air of any stones, much less black ones. What are you going to bomb? or what, did you expect them to give you a fucking GPS coordinates in a radio comm?

>ARM
ARMs lock on a fucking RADAR, not a fucking radio comm point you fucking brain-dead idiot. It's fucking different orders of magnitude of radiation power. ARM can't lock on a fucking broadcasting walkie-talkie in your pocket. God this board is fucking illiterate.

>>32437757
> those that were - all took time to decrypt, and not nearly all were decrypted successfully until they were no longer important.
See previous post about cracking capacity with modern computers as opposed to men with typewriters

the level of idiocy in this thread has been incredible, even by /k/'s bottom of the barrel standards.

the fucking nazi wehrboos in this thread at completely and utterly deluded.

>>32437757
>You successfully intercepted a German HQ comm
Who cares if you know what it says? Just drop a bomb on it. Job done.
>Too obvious
>Not an argument
Neither is:
>HURRR Soviets

>they couldn't read EVERYTHING
No shit, never claimed that.

Get fucked Wehraboo

>>32437821
>wehraboos
>deluded
The devil you say!

Modern-day Germans would fight tooth and nail against actual Nazis, they would see it as their nation's one opportunity to prove that they don't have to be their legacy. Hitler gets fucking drone striked at the onset of hostilities.

...Actually yeah, how does this work? Nazi Germany and modern Germany exist on roughly the same geographical coordinates. Who starts where?

>>32437699
>Modern Germany would use there far more advanced radio and EW equipment to detect ww2 Germany's headquarters
How? Explain me the method, oh wise one, since you are clearly so well educated and totally not talking out of your ass basing your point entirely on "oh, the military communications advanced a lot since WWII, clearly they can just pinpoint every enemy installation just like that". Yes, it advanced a lot. No, it can't do that just from communication still. Will never be able because military comm protocols and opsec prevent it on principle, and did so even before WWII. That's why aerial recon and satellite imagery still play the key role in discerning the location of enemy assets.

>I don't usually say this unironically, but kill yourself.
103 divisions by 1941.

> by hand held AT weapons
How many units does BW has to do exactly that. Give me a number. I gave you 103 WM divisions. How many units does BW has to stop 103 WM divisions?

>They couldn't win the BoB
Britain had thousands of aircrafts and thousands of AA gun emplacements. BW has 69 jets.

>Blacken the skies
I specifically said they they cannot do that, only deal limited damage to assets not protected by modern AA. Fucking learn to read.

>SPAAGs
How many of those does BW has? Why am I the only one providing the numbers here? Are you too dumb to deal in numbers? You had F in arithmetic in school?

>manpads
Modern manpads are very very poor for tracking WWII-era prop planes.

>The second phase would involve Modern Germany bombing and bombarding the living shit out of the main concentrations
SIXTY NINE air ready jets. Most of which will require maintenance after working 24/7 for a few days.

>>32437744
>Then BW vaporises every HQ that Nazi Germany has their command is dead and they surrender. Quit it, you look fucking stupid.
How, again? They are not gonna give you a postbox address in a radio comm. You don't know SHIT about military communication.

>>32421378
>entire prime German army, lets say 1943 gets transported to modern day Germany.
>families rejoice and get to meet Grandpa's and uncles they never had a chance to meet and tears and beers are had
>the now massive army and political movement behind it quickly integrate themselves into all levels of politics.
>Nazi Germany wins elections and retakes their country.

Nazi Germany Win.

>>32437757
Oh and:
>ARMs lock on a fucking RADAR, not a fucking radio comm point you fucking brain-dead idiot.
>It's fucking different orders of magnitude of radiation power.
>ARM can't lock on a fucking broadcasting walkie-talkie in your pocket.
They can target communication systems. Your avergae Wehrmacht CP or HQ isn't going to be using walkie talkies moron.

>>32437883
I'll skip the arguing, kill yourself.