At only 2mm shorter w the same diameter, modern 380 ammo is just

>>32415438
Depends on the length of barrel. A full sized 9mm pistol will outclass a full sized .380 hands down.

It's kind of like having a .357 snub nose, pointless.

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>>32415438

Ammo has really come a long way for the .380 as of late. Both the Polycase and the Hornady XTP bullets are more than capable of stopping a threat.

A Bersa Thunder Plus filled with those would be perfectly adequate for day to day use.

>>32415438
I'm carrying my Glock 43 any time I leave the house. It's impossible for me to carry more often than I already do and switching to a .380 makes no difference.

I'd rather have a 9mm so I can buy super cheap ball ammo to practice with frequently.

>>32415438
.380 is better because it's more expensive and harder to find.

>>32415555
ive seen videos of this but i cant understand what the advange of the shape is

>>32415559
>Not buying ammo cans that comes out to the same price as store bought 9mm boxes
>Not buying quality reloaded XTP rounds for self defense
>Having a 380 that's picky about ammo

Found your problem.

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>>32415567

Think of a human body like a mass of water (because that's basically what it is). If you have grooves like that in the bullet and the bullet is spinning as it enters the body, fluid (flesh) entering those grooves is going to have more pressure exerted against it and get flung outwards, increasing damage to tissue in that area. That's why wound channels are so large for those rounds despite not expanding at all.

>>32415585
>Reloads for SD
Wew

>>32415646
Possibly. Depends on where you get em. My XTP reloads from Freedom Munitions have never failed in my G42 or p238. And they're cheap enough to where you'll actually test them.

>>32415660
I don't hate freedom, but wow.
You're on your own on this one.

>>32415646
>>32415660
>>32415683

I'd use reloads for SD, but you can be damned sure that they'd be my own reloads.

>>32415438
but .380 is a marginal penetrator at best when you load up with hollowpoints, and has marginal expansion if you load up with anything else.

>>32415764
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7_C6kNfjiA

>>32415438
as you said, the cartridges are nearly identical in size, so why not carry the slightly larger one with better ballistics?

r u a grill?

>>32415811
>tfw the wound channel is indistinguishable from ball

>OP tries to justify buying a 380.

You're fucking retarded if you buy any 380. Why would you willingly buy a more expensive round for significantly less power

>>32415691
This.

>>32415609
hydrostatic shock has been disproven for pretty much everything but rifle rounds and some really hot pistol rounds

large temporary wound cavity != hydrostatic shock

>>32415438
>so you'll carry more often
I carry my .357 P229 on the daily. smaller guns are actually less comfortable

>>32415879
I've been thinking about getting a 229 legion in .357 sig. Is the capacity really only 10? and how snappy is it since the bore axis is so high?

>.380 is pretty much the same size as 9mm so power won't be effected
>Get a .380 because its smaller and easier to carry

>>32415683
>He's never had a brand new self defense round fail to feed or eject

Check this lucky guy out

>>32415438
>not splitting the difference and carrying 9mm makarov

>>32415879

It literally cuts a big X shaped permanent wound cavity.

>>32415939
Still better than kaboom munitions

anyways if you're that worried about it inspect all your carry ammo and set it aside

meaning the rounds should drop into and drop out of a chamber easily just using gravity, and inspect the primers to make sure they're seated good.

>>32415956
>big
>pretty much the same size as the equivalent ball round would make
oh okay

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>>32415900
no, it's only 10 if you get the CA legal model. Base capacity is 12, you can get 14 rounders with extensions or put P226 15rd extendos in it.

recoil is marginal, I think the >high bore axis meme is perpetuated by people who've never fired a 226 or 229, since the slide is heavy as fuck. recoil in my G23 .40 when I still owned it was much worse than the .357 229. it's really pleasant to shoot. I'm assuming it's because it's just a very hot 9mm and not a heavier bullet. I do have the legion model, though

>>32415438
>380ACP = 9mm

Okay

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

Get a real .380. Get a Glock 42. 50% less felt recoil, smaller form factor than the Sig 238.

>>32416002
Can confirm. .40 Glock 23/22 recoil is much stouter than 229. That said I would much rather have a .357 sig or a .45 in the 226 frame style.

>>32416117
yep.
this and after shooting about 250 rounds of .45, 226 9mm recoil is almost nonexistent

>>32415438
Max load data:
90gr FMJ, 970 fps vs 1376 fps

Protip: you lose

>>32415438
>just as effective
translation: it's shit also

>>32416002
So sexy...

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>>32415438
>current year.
>carrying .380.

>>32415609
>think of the human body like a mass of water

no, think of the human body as a pile of meat and bones.

>>32417032

No, think of the human body as a meat-covered skeleton driven by a ghost.

>>32417058
but I don't want nightmares

>>32417058
No, think of your moms body as a canvas of cum

>>32415438

FUCKING /K/

>size doesn't matter
>9mm is just as good as 40 or 45, maybe better
>oh, want a 380?
>not enough power!
>too weak!
>you needs a manly 9mm, like the eurocucks
>380 too expensive
>imma buy legion for swap
>need scorpion sig because tan paint is worth $100

Jesus. H. Christ.

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>>32417058
>You are ghost inside of a skeleton inside of a meat golem

>>32417032

Bullets have a hard time telling the difference between the two, senpai.

>>32417158
most of the thread is agreeing with OP though

>>32415965
Still. What's the difference in having random new defense ammo fuck up (which we've all had) & OP's reliance on XTP reloads that he's tested a lot & found to be reliable w his firearms (but possibly might not be someday)?

The answer: There is none.

>>32417205
OPs points are 9mm and .380 are the same diameter and .380 guns are smaller
What's to prove or argue about?
Pointless thread. K is full of children.

anyone know if the bersa thunder 380 combat plus is any good? i kinda want to get one for ccw bc they are cheap and look cool

>At only 2mm shorter w the same diameter, modern 380 ammo is just as effective in real world defense situations as 9mm & in smaller packages so you'll actually carry more often. Prove me wrong.

Muzzle energy is significantly reduced compared with 9mm.

You're probably right that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, though. Both are pistol rounds, and both will put a hole into a guy, and I wouldn't hold out hope for much more than that, so shot placement is key.

>>32417612
To be honest I'd personally feel better carrying a single action 380 (like OP's pic) than a double action 9. I don't know why, but I always picture myself mag dumping in SA in a defense situation.

A mag full of 380 XTP rounds hitting you all inside of 2 seconds would def fuck someone up. I seriously doubt anyone would live through it.

>>32417612

Lower recoil means faster follow-up shots. You can also more easily shoot it one-handed, which you might have to.

>>32417032
Think of a body as a miserable pile of secrets

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>Not CCing a platform just shoots telescopic spears with rumble-packs on the far end

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>>32415438

At only 1mm shorter the 9mm makarov is only 1mm less effective than a 9mm luger

Gimme a break.

>>32415555
>>32415567
>>32415609

They're barely doing it right with these designs. look up THV, this stuff has been around since the 70s and the thv is even more effective at it.

the spindle/ballpoint pen shape of the bullet deflects flesh sideways like a snowplow

the wound channel is twice the diameter of the bullet

I dont know why they're not going with the good shit and making these 3-groove things instead. My guess is not wanting it to look like they're making armor piercers or something, but thats just a theory.
> jackasses are trying to be politcially correct
> that shit gets you killed these days

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>>32417810
okay I looked it up for you guys

these rounds are typically really lightweight so they go faster, but the key to their effectiveness is the shape

> 9mm, 40 grain
> 700m/s

Though to be honest getting average weight slugs with the same shape is going to do about the same damage to somebody as well as penetrate deeper through them.

I think the added velocity just means abit more damage over the shorter penetration, get it anywhere near something and its going to shred it.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/RichCapeCod/Firearms/Ammo/THV45claytest_zps5cc281d7.jpg

>>32415555
No.

>>32416212
Nigga I'm handloading 100 grain FMJ's at over 1K FPS. Ballistic potential may not be as good as my 124 grain cast 9mm's at ~900, but it's still damn good for such a small form factor

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>>32415438
>At only 2mm shorter w the same diameter, modern 380 ammo is just as effective in real world defense situations as 9mm
depends on the load being used and/or the accuracy of the shooter...
personally id always choose a slightly larger 9mm w/ high-velocity ammo vs. anything .380

>& in smaller packages so you'll actually carry more often
also subjective..
pic my edc
all day every day

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>>32415438
Interesting you say this, because I actually am considering a S&W Bodyguard.
Felt good for such a small gun.

>>32421470
it has reliability issues, think again m8. if youre looking for 380 pocket carry, consider kahr, lcp, p238

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>9x17

>>32415691
This.

I keep reloads in all my SD/HD guns but damn sure i'm not buying someone else's reloads to trust my life on. I prefer my reloads over factory because I can ensure that each round gets a live primer with an anvil, a precise powder charge and a properly seated bullet. I have personally had 6 failures with quality factory ammunition. two of those were $1 a round premium Self defense ammo. One had no anvil in a primer cup and the other had no powder charge sticking a bullet in the bore.


not an unexpected failure in over 40k reloads. I have had a couple squib loads but I knew full well before firing the particular loads ( light charge of hard to ignite w296) that a squib was a good possibility.

My M&P shield 45 is on me 24/7, so this means fuck all to me. If your not gonna carry at least a 9mm, why fucking bother?

>>32421470
Gf had one and it would have feeding issues once every two mags

>>32421470
Don't fuckin do it. I had one & the mag release is pure shit & made of plastic. The force of a round would cause mag drops. Sent it in, they replaced it & still did it.

The TCP is better in all honestly. Top 380s are the G42 & p238 tho. You'll pay more, but if you're serious about 380 & want an actual quality gun that'll go to war if you need it to, those are it.

>>32415956
>x-shaped wound channel
Do your bullets not spin? I'm pretty sure 1000 fps * 60 seconds per minute * 12 inches per foot / 16 inches per revolution gives you 45,000 revolutions per minute. Nothing spinning that fast on impact is going to make a wound channel any shape other than "kinda round" unless it runs into something that either changes wound shape due to being solid, makes the bullet change course, or the bullet expands and breaks up.

>>32424893
This, I settled on a G42, but the P238 is an amazing gun as well. Both are a joy to shoot and are easily concealed under slim fit clothes with AIWB carry.

>>32415557
This, want to sell my shitty 380 for a small, single stack nine

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>>32425240
Yep. I went through a 380 phase & either bought, traded for or shot damn near every one of them. Those were the best. The TCP is the best on a budget.

I'd also say the new version of the Colt Mustang, as long as you replace the shitty plastic guide rod. It was what the p238 is based on.

>>32417737
>being the recipient of a mag dump
No doubt about it. That would fuck you up proper.

But actual defensive shoots usually don't go that way. You have to consider the possibility that only 1 or 2 score hits. And those hits might be less than ideal.

ITT: faggots have the nerve to disrespect a creation of JOHN FUCKING BROWNING.

>>32425561
The TCP is a great budget .380. Handles better than a ruger LCP, and it holds open on last round. The colt mustang XSP is fantastic and I would recommend it over every pocket gun out there right now.

>>32425928
True that. Never understood the LCP craze. Feels like a toy, shitty trigger & the ergos suck. I think gun fags just like hating on Taurus but I never ever had a problem w mine.

I actually plan on picking up a Mustang next week. I let go all my 380s and want one back. That one.

>>32415836
wrong. Go to 9 minutes in. FMJ is a pinprick past the first couple inches, the Lehigh xps make hollow point size holes even 11 inches deep.

>>32421485
Damn that's a shame. Because the bodyguard felt like it filled my hand better than a LCP. It's more or less an ankle gun or backup is what I'm considering.