Overpriced 1911's

They think their boutique gun is an "investment" and "you get what you pay for" because diminishing returns do not exist

>>32329396

OP here, just another thought. This issue closely correlates with the noveske/larue ar hype. Its just like the arfcom fags hamstering their way into justifying any and every stupid accessory and extra doo dad for the gun they never fire. Who wants a gun youd be too afraid to use, else you scratch it and shave off hundreds in value? Not me, its pure lunacy and people are making a killing at it

>>32329418

Basically, i cant count the number of times i hear 'investment' on armslist ads. What really gets me is the arguement that 'it has just what i need'. Ya bud, like those fish scale slide grips really fit you better that standard serations, that your penis envy grip safety hanging off the back really improves the gun's 'balance'. Give me a break...

ITT: people that don't understand what luxury goods are

>>32329396
-t. poorfag

>>32329440

So being a 'luxury' good is basically a blanket excuse for overpaying? Got it

>>32329442

I'd be poor if i spent 5k on pistols. Its not buying them that keeps me rich

>>32329457

Not the guy you replied to, but I'm someone with experience in marketing, and yes, that's correct.

When you go to the supermarket, the cheap store brand shit is often exactly the same as the name brand shit.
Sometimes it actually is better.
Except pop. Store brand blows ass.

Anyway, it's a premium pricing strategy, which invites favorable perceptions of the product by buyers, solely on price.
People see something that's more expensive, and they assume it's better.

I'm actually a 1911 fag too, but I don't own any of these extremely expensive """semi-custom""" guns.
Most expensive one I've currently got it a Colt.

I like 1911s. I really do...but I agree that $5000 is absurd. For that kind of money it better hold some serious collectible value.

OP- do the math, find out what it costs to buy high end 1911 parts, find out how much it costs to have a gunsmith who specializes on 1911's work on it

try and imagine a world where you didnt buy your fisher price glocks, where all guns were made of steel. try and imagine a gun that could last your whole life instead of something that keeps breaking and you just keep buying new parts for it. it might make a little sense to buy the best possible gun if you knew that would be the one and only pistol that you were going to use for the rest of your life

>>32329638
Yeah sorry that seems like a horseshit argument when i can get a $700 Springfield and have it perform equally or better than this $5k high tolerance low drag garbage.

Keep justifying your high expenditures faggot

>>32329603

Thats basically what i figured. Its almost like you could make a case study on marketing based on the 1911 due to the one crucial detail that 99% are built to mil spec with modifications being primarily cosmetic. Yet forums and internet discussions are filled with people detailing their special needs from a high end 'custom' aka not custom gun. Its not the same as a car where you spend more you get something different with noticeable performance changes. With 1911's their differences are negligible. With the economy in the shitter i really think only dumb boomers can afford to be so stupid and lavish.

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>>32329396
Having been down the 1911 road I can tell you that short of a Les Baer you are unlikely to have a 1911 that is built right. I could spend hours telling you about how critical the frame ramp angle and vertical impact surface is, barrel and slide lug engagement etc etc.

But I'm not, because you are obviously not interested in 1911s and only want to bitch about people buying nice things.

Just like the guy who has a base model mustang and thinks people who buy Porsches are wasting money.

>>32329670
You wanna know how I know you've never shot a semi-custom 1911?

>>32329638

>glocks keep breaking
>only one and only pistol all my life

Is this even an arguement? Glocks hold up just fine and parts are extremely prevalent in case something would ever break. Why would i ever buy just one gun all my life? if i did it certainly wouldnt be a 5k nightcawk cumstom

>>32329670
>i can get a $700 Springfield and have it perform equally or better than this $5k high tolerance
look out folks, we have a gun *expert* here

>>32329396
Dude, no fucking clue. I don't get it either, not even a little bit. I have a Colt Mark IV/Series 70 that I got for $700 and it puts holes in what I point it at. I snagged a RIA 1911A2 Tactical FSII for $550 in 10mm, and that puts holes in what I point it at, too. There is seriously no sense in paying $5K for a tu-tone pistol that'll do the same damn thing.

But, hey, you want a Rolls Royce with gold-plated spinners, fine by me, its your money, you do what you will with it.

I read a book recently about persuasion. Michael Cialdini's Influence. In it, he describes a story wherein the owner of a jewelry shop couldn't sell some pieces and decided to list them as 50% off while she went on vacation. She fucked up though and accidentally marked the jewelry 50% up. By the time she got back, all of the pieces had sold.

We have the brilliant ability, as humans, to see rare things as innately valuable, without appraising why. Expensive and rare are more or less equivalent in the human brain because of how we comprehend scarcity. In other words, an expensive item that's at best marginally better than its competitors will sell BECAUSE its expensive.

>>32329685

I could care less what people spend their money on. Seriously the arguement, "i just wanted it" is fine with me. But going on and on about these nebulous 'ramp angles' and 'slide lug engagement' bs is ridiculous. Next youre gonna tell me any price is justified when your getting attacked by some dindu in a non-realistic daydream scenario

>>32329465
>spending $5k would make you poor
Wew. I was just being facetious with the poorfag remark. You truly are a poorfag.

>>32329457
In a lot of cases, that's correct. Highend 1911s do perform a bit better than cheap ones, but it's a case of seriously diminishing returns. If you get a 1911 like that, you're either stupid, have a ton of disposable money, or a comp shooter where that tiny bit of extra MOA actually counts. And if you're a shit shot then that doesn't even count. Most of the time people just want shiny range toys.

>Some 40s fudd shows up at the range with his Kimber gold match.
>Goes on and on about how he was a comp shooter back in the day and how he loves him some kimber.
>Some early 20s kid just walking in eats it up all starry eyed.
>Asks to see fudd shoot because he brought a 1911 of his own.
>Surprisingly fudd doesn't seem nervous. Maybe he is good?
>"Let me show ya how it's done, mah boi."
>Nope. Massive fucking group at 7 yards. 20s kid doesn't know better and thinks it's great.
>Almost call fudd out on his shit.
>Kid goes up to shoot. Pulls out plain jane RIA officer.
>Shoots a tight group with nearly all the holes touching sans one where he jerked down.
>Kid is confus. Isn't the older guy with the pricey gun always better?
>Fudd waves it off as beginners luck, shoots 2 more mags, then books it when guys next to him mutter "let me show you how it's done" and laugh.

>>32329766
Those "nebulous" specs matter because otherwise the 1911 is not reliable. If you had half a clue as to how these guns work and are made you'd understand that which is exactly why I'm not going to spend my time educating you, however I do recommend you seek out said education. I suggest you start with Kuhnhausen's book, The Colt 45 Automatic.

Got a $1200 1911 on my hip right now.

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>>32329396
As someone who owns both a Baer and a Brown I can vouch that they are both worth their price tag and are noticeably better in fit, finish, and function than their cheaper counterparts.

I can't recommend Wilson or Nighthawk though. The $2000 jump in price isn't worth having a bird on the slide.

>For 5k i could buy a used truck, a whole fucking truck.
Where do you live that $5k for a truck will get you anything more than a bottom-tier, piece of shit with 250k miles.

>>32329868

>Those "nebulous" specs matter because otherwise the 1911 is not reliable.

lol
Someone better tell my $350 Norinco that, because the damn thing still refuses to malfunction.

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Overpriced 1911s outside of purpose built race guns literally used for comps are stupid but I want a Dan Wesson Bruin so bad.

>>32329940
Heard that from all kinds of people. We go to the range and he proceeds to have a 3 point jam

"I don't know why it did that, it's never done that before"

Sure buddy.

>>32329766
>But going on and on about these nebulous 'ramp angles' and 'slide lug engagement' bs is ridiculous.
attention KMart shoppers, our resident gun expert is now on duty to assist you in your gun purchases

>>32329989

Pretending that there aren't reliable cheap 1911s nowadays is really silly, anon. The days where you really DID have to dump money into an AR to get a decent level of reliability are long gone.

I'm not suggesting you don't get something for the money, but a lot of it really is brand. To a point as well, accuracy, especially with race guns, but let's be honest- how many people will shoot well enough to find the difference in accuracy between a $1200 1911 and a $5k Heirloom?

>>32330034

Sorry, said AR instead of 1911. You get the point, though.

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>Confirmation Bias - The Thread

>>32329989
Tell me more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEABZswQWDg

>People paying more than $350 for a modern 1911.
Shelling out big money for a collectible I get, but these high end fashion pieces are garrish. It's an outdated design that was never really exceptional to begin with.

5grand gor a gun? Is it alot of money? Yes. Is it alot of money? No. Depends on who is buying it. Some people are buying 40 million dollar boats. 5 grand is nothing. Ever heard if you have to ask how much you dont have enough?

>>32330073
>It's an outdated design that was never really exceptional to begin with.
literal nogunz

most modern steel frame pistols are redesigns and modifications of the 1911 and Browning hi-power

>>32329940
NORINCOs are a great example of how important fitment There are tons of those cheap Chinese pieces of shit developing head space and lockup issues due to improper barrel link drop down timing. Seriously only a retard that knows nothing about 1911s would waste the money on a NORINCO. Better keep a close eye on your barrel locking lugs.

>>32330073
>"why do people buy things I can't afford?!?"

>>32330135

No obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Though some old Norincos did have weak lugs. However mine isn't one of them.

You can buy a Colt, Springfield, or a Sig Sauer 1911 for ~$1K+

You can buy a Ruger, S&W, Magnum Research, Remington, etc. 1911 for ~$700+

Hell, you can even get a Chiappa or Rock Island Armory 1911 for ~$4/500

The point I'm trying to make is that: You don't need to spend $5k on a great 1911

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>>32330197
>need

>>32330093

Why not pay 50k then? wheres the limit? this is exactly the idiot reasoning people employ to buy these things

>>32330217

Hurr. no one here wants to restrict your right to overpay for shit. His point went way over your head

Is the Springfield Professional the apex of quality and value?

I've heard it's praises sung long and loud, and it's still much much less expensive than the Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk set, right?

>>32330252
>point
Last time I checked a $1K poorfag 1911 wasn't as good as a Les Baer.

It seems you're just as bad at making points as you are at making money, poorfag.

>>32330221
The limit is 7 and another +1 if I feel like you deserve the extra.

>>32329396
I have no idea. My 1911 is US made with all US parts and only cost me around $700.

I recently discovered a 1911 manufacturer in my state, and I'd love to have one just because of that. But I'll never buy one because they're 4k+

>>32330280

I know you. youre the guy on armslist that keeps posting his lesbaer over and over and never getting a bite. Face it you overspent and cant shoot for shit

>>32329396

Be me on Scandinavian cuck website.

>27
>Single
>own my own home and a new car
>paid monthly, after tax, 457, pension and other misc items.
>5500-6500 is deposited into my account

I can do whatever I want with that money. I choose to buy 1500-2000 dollar 1911s, collectible Colts, Baer's for carry and range duty, looking to expand to a Wilson to run until it's raw.

>>32330351
>overspent
I don't think you understand what this word means, poorfag. You only "overspend" if you can buy better for less money. You can't buy better than a Les Baer for less money.

>>32330376
>You can't buy better than a Les Baer for less money.
You poor, delusional fool.

>>32330386
Prove me wrong poorfag.

>>32330423
Meet me at the range. I'll let you shoot my 1911.

>>32330439
I can't wait to shoot your Taurus. I bet it even shoots by itself. Now that's what I call advanced technology.

>>32330487
Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not a Taurus.

>>32330423
Anon, please, Baer's machining is the oldest in the semi-custom business and it has long since started to show. I love my Baer, but until he retools his shop there's no reason to purchase a Baer over similarly priced competitors.

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>>32330499
Shieeet nigga u use armslist 2??? dat heater gon blow some bitc away. dayummmm.

>>32330520
Baer's are tools. Not pretty. His machining shows it.

However, show me a 1911 for under $2500 that has each part serial numbered as it was hand fitted and worked over a 20-30 hour manufacturing period by a team of no more than 10 people working in concert with the lead checking up on it and putting the final stamp of approval before Les himself test fires it prior to it going in that shitty blank cardboard box wrapped in wax paper.

Oh right. Chances are you are making this all up because your chiappa is just as good.

>>32330536
Nope. Keep trying.

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>>32330520
What's your opinion on Baer vs Ed Brown vs Wilson Combat.

Also personally, I like pic related, but the lead time is a year or more.

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>>32330594

>>32330679
That's a Glock? You don't know the difference?

>>32330639
https://forums.1911forum.com/

>>32330741
>your

>>32330693
nah nikka dems dat forty five . gon jus roll up an den i pop pop they in they head. nikka.

M1911. The katana of guns.

>>32330679
You do realize a brown refers to ED BROWN. Not a "brown" dude, holding a pistol nukka.

>>32330639
Wilson overprices and Baer needs to replace his tooling. Currently Ed Brown is the winner, however the trick with Ed Brown is to track down and handle all the different styles of front/backstrap options as well as cocking serrations and choosing the ones you like best. They'll mix and match to order, so take your time and get exactly what you want.

Once he retools I'd go back to recommending Baer if you're unwilling to spend the extra $500 or so for a Brown, want a beater gun, or feel that the higher LPI serrations are a make or break thing.

>>32330582
I have a mid-6000 Hillsdale SN Baer, a friend has one of the original Para-frame SRP's, and my father has an Ed Brown from back when they were built on Baer frames.

Les Baer's machining is all over 25 years old at this point and the wear is noticeable when handling the newer guns. The fit and finish are simply not there compared to where they were when the tooling was new and it shows.

>>32329868
Maybe get a less finicky gun, then?
I don't need to pay more than $600 to get a shiny new Beretta that works flawlessly as-is.

I'm not sure why I'd need to pay over twice that to get a gun that will perform equally well, unless said gun is a flawed design or I'm getting massively gouged.
Make all the excuses you want, but one way or another, something is fucky.

>>32331018
>Baer needs to replace his tooling.
not going to happen, the reason people buy Baer is because they do hand fitting better than any CNC machine could ever do

>>32331062
It'll happen eventually. Baer was among the first to get in on CNC machining, he's well aware of the benefits as well as the costs. Just because he upgrades his tooling doesn't mean he has to stop hand-fitting things.

>>32329868
>not reliable
Nigger you are retarded. My Ruger, at less than 1/5 the price of your glorified piece of metal, has yet to malfunction in any way since I have taken it out of the box.

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I wouldn't mind owning a TRP Operator, but since I have no serious interest in 1911s it seems like a lot of money. Not sure if the Old Snake memes are worth it.

This thread
>half have used a real 1911
>half are trying to justify their budget bin 1911s

>>32329685
>Having been down the 1911 road I can tell you that short of a Les Baer you are unlikely to have a 1911 that is built right.

asshole I have a flip made 1911 that shoots fine. only problem I ever had was extractor tension - which a les baer will have, too.

Seriously the original pistols were mass manufactured out of cheap metal and had loose tolerances and they won two world wars, they don't need to be forged on a fucking mithril anvil in the mines of fucking moria

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Springfield Loaded should be in mid-tier with Kimber or Kimber needs to move up a tier...

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

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>>32333059
My Kimber Stainless ii runs flawlessly... mostly use Wilson Combat Mags and Kimber Mags.

>>32329396
>TFW bought into the meme and got an authentic Colt 1991 Government
>TFW it's a great gun but at 1300 bucks it's totally not worth it
>TFW I could've gotten a double-stack modern pistol for half the price

>>32329603
Eh I've had some store brand cold cuts... Pretty gross ese, and I'm a poorfag

>>32333068
>>TFW I could've gotten a double-stack modern pistol for half the price
Has there ever been a reliable double stack 1911?

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On one hand a lot of them are extremely overpriced(with the exception of antiques of course) for what they are.

On another hand the really expensive ones tend to be things of beauty but unless if you got a couple thousand to burn with nothing better to spend it on are just wastes of money when you could just get yourself something basic if you really want a 1911.


Also this exists

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people like different shit.

I love my 1911, if you wanna carry something else more power to you.

>>32333094
RIA and Para come to mind off the bat. I wouldn't know though, as I've never been able to give any double-stack 1911's a shot. I imagine that they'd be a bit fussy because the design is built for single stack, but I'm no gunsmith.

>>32329396
so, guess this is the right place to drop it anyway

reasonably speaking, would it be possible for a skilled gunsmith with a good mill and some patience to make a custom-quality 1911 from a decent 80% frame and good parts kit? or is there some magical difference that baer, brown, etc can make in a gun that nobody else can? not looking to blow $5000 on a piece of machined steel when I'm reasonably confident I could do the same.

>>32333117
No offense but I don't see why you would ask here. If you have faith in your skills then try but honestly it would be better if you try asking other smiths if you know any then some random dudes on /k/. Then again maybe some master gunsmith will reply to you also.

>>32333117
Is a rolex better than a Timex? Not really, but one has a lot more fuss invested in it's finishing.

>>32330376
he's right, you know

>>32333113
I do know they exist. Just wonder to which extent they're reliable.

Noticeably, Para often comes around in discussions, but people often dismiss their (always admitted) fussiness on "QC probrems for the last years"... which is the kind of things sounding more as an excuse than as an argument.

I'm curious about what to expect from Remington now they've bought Para (have read rumors as to them about to release pretty much the Para line under their own name in 2017: I kinda dig the Black Ops Recon).

>>32333129
If there's an actual Rolex pro, it's that they indeed are particularly tough and reliable, for mech watches. A lot more than much better finished others. Then again, mech watches are inherently delicate...

>>32333127
>Then again maybe some master gunsmith will reply to you also.
that's the hope, at least... i've built more than a few firearms (no, not ar15s) and have built a 1911 from an 80% before that performed beautifully. but I've also never handled a $5000 custom one so I don't know what kind of performance standard I'm supposed to be living up to here.

>>32333129
so basically, most 1911s are more-or-less identical before being built, and it's the custom work which takes it from being a $400 RIA to a custom? because if so, hell, I might start seeing if I can do a second 1911, provided I can find some good resources on tuning them

>>32333117
>>32333127
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything. But like with everything else, every project, you have to do your due diligence and research. A 1911 isn't like an AR, get all the parts and slap them together.

There is a guy on YouTube who undertook the challenge of building his own 1911, bought quality parts and what not. Screwed it up royally, he over cut the slide/frame fit, screwed up the recoil lug.

Long story short, life's hard but its harder when your stupid.

>>32333174
believe me, I know that feeling. i was so anal about finishing the slide ramps because it'd be a $120 mistake otherwise.

>>32333165
People bitch about most brands nowadays, in this thread you've had people shitting on Les Baers and over quality 1911's.

> Reviews on the Remington R1 1911 are all really good.
> People complain about Kimber, but only the blued model. Usually no complaints about the Stainless ones, Los Angeles Swat uses the Kimber TLE 4" model.

>>32333168
Well there are some metallurgical differences involved, but basically yes. Fitting and experience count for a lot. See "Kimber rust" or the frame cracks we saw in colt railguns, all Kimbers etc

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>>32333183
google "Kimber rust" or even "Kimber ring" and tell me about the quality of those SS guns.

Kimber went downhill about 6-7 years back, and they went down fast and hard.

>>32333183
>> Reviews on the Remington R1 1911 are all really good.
yep: is precisely why I'm curious

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>>32330062
>You think I'm not armed?

>>32333191
I googled "Kimber ring" not sure what you were trying to show me, but for some reason I kept seeing pictures and references to wedding rings.
> I'm flattered but I'm not sure I'm ready for that type of commitment.
> I'm sure you'll find someone else, someone who is ready to settle down with you....
> I don't think of you that way, I think of you as a friend or a brother...

>>32333242
Now try Kimber James

>>32333278
Only if you try blue waffle

> This thread again

You know EXACTLY why people pay these prices, but you perpetuate the meme as some kind of poorfag sound off in the hopes of validating yourselves, much in the same way tolerance fags and AR brand elitists do.

There is a market for premium quality 1911s that is being met by people more passionate about firearms than you probably ever will be. Maybe they're just beater tools to you, and that's perfectly fine, I understand, hell I feel the same way. Just know that some people have the means to own art for the sake of owning art, and you don't need to scowl and throw shit because you're too poor to do the same.

With that being said.

Your poorfag possessions aren't as good. They aren't. They fucking. Are. Not.

Either learn to make peace with what you can currently achieve, do better, or kill yourself.

There isn't really anything else to talk about.

>>32333317

>semi custom
>art
>passion

Wew lad. A 1k 1911 is just as much a piece of art as the 4k ones. Get over yourself

>>32333336
I'm not this guy >>32333317

But by your logic all firearms, 1911's, etc, should be considered art....
> Years from now you Mosin could be in some Museum or over your great grand children's fireplace...
> Art is very objective

Some 1911's are made from the same materials, QC
> Springfield 1911 Mil spec
> Springfield 1911 Loaded
> Springfield 1911 TRP

The main difference I imagine would be the little things, hammer, trigger, grip, sights, etc.

>>32333336
I don't own one of these custom jobs, nor do I have any interest in doing so. I only recognize things for what they are and let people live their lives. I find it amusing how fucking HOSTILE fags like you get over what other people pay for without ever actually trying to understand why they buy them, I mean REALLY understand, not throw out party invitations for other sad fucks to come share in your inability to see things from someone else's perspective because you're set in your ways to your own detriment.

I'm not even sure why I bothered. Like, I get that it's 4chan, but still. Fuck.

I wish you the best man. Truly.

>>32333357

Thats just my point exactly. Art is subjective. Theres no marker where once you pass a certain price point it becomes art.

>>32333369

OP here, you sound mad. You say you recognize things for what they are but do you really? 99% of them are made to mil-spec with minor changes of different serations etc. There really isnt an objective way of determining how much utility the greater price provides. Im convinced that they are truly a 'luxury' item that survives of the falsehood that cost = value. That being said i have no problem with people spending their money how they want, please do. But im sick of the rationalizations of:

>no other 1911 has what i need
>i shoot tighter groups
>muh tolerences

If you want a shiny toy, get a shiny toy. But dont expect me to believe it really is made of magic.

>oh hey, those double 1911s look neat
>maybe I'll pick one up for shits and giggles
>FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Wew lad.

>>32333375
To some people, there is. I'd say that in the general sense, people consider the effort and talent that's needed to make such things as 'more artful'.

I'm not gonna devolve this into a /mu/ tier 'art quality is objective' rant, but for most people, how much time and effort that's put into a thing generally determines it's worth. Especially for people that are already looking to spend any large amount of money looking for something 'extra' in the first place.

I don't see how people can't factor this into their 'attempts' to understand people's willingness to pay thousands for fucking ANYTHING really.

Must suck to have to spend thousands of dollars on a particular pistol for it to work properly. Sad to see the 1911 be made into something it wasn't designed to be.

>>32333399
>for most people, how much time and effort that's put into a thing generally determines it's worth
only commies believe such dimwitted crap
you can put all your sweat and blood moving a huge pile of manure by a few meters, if no one is interested in you doing that, it's worth absolutely nothing

for all the others (ie wealth creating individuals, ie Humans worthy of this name), the worth is determined by how much you get and how badly you want it
which on the topic of this thread goes back to
>>32333389
>If you want a shiny toy, get a shiny toy.

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Can I point out there are various Threads/Links/Boards/ Sites that have discussed this very question.... (DESU tomorrow this exact same thread will start over)
> How much is too much for a 1911...
> How much is too little for a 1911...

I'll just throw in my .02

> Get what you can afford
> Those custom/hand assembled 1911's may have "tighter tolerances" but that isn't always a good thing. People have had malfunctions with so much as a little powder getting into the slide.
> Every company has some bad eggs/ guns... someone out there has had a Rock Island that has never failed them. And someone bought a Springfield TRP with a Slide that hangs over the frame a little so its not a perfect fit.
> Get whatever tickles your pickle and floats your boat.

I present to you a picture of a revolver that failed... shit happens

>>32333389
Not mad at all, just a bit weary of this particular argument.

The point stands that if there's a market for a thing, someone will fill it. If you want to tell yourself that it's all status symbol faggotry, you have every right to.

Hell, you wouldn't be entirely wrong.

With that being said, writing it all off as such is short-sighted and ignorant. It all comes off as salty bitching to me. Despite being a poorfag myself, I still manage to understand WHY people pay what they do without loudly asking my fellow poorfags to chirp my own opinion back at me in a thread disguised as a forum for discussion.

IDK, I guess I'm basically doing the same thing by giving you shit about it, but this particular subject just always irked me.

I have a final in a few hours and I can't sleep, so forgive me and my awful formatting.

I still love you, if that means anything.

>>32329603
store brand doritos arent as good as the name brand ones

>>32333471
I love you too /komrade
> Good luck on your finals mate.

>>32333429
> How badly you want it

Yes, based upon whatever fancy try hard criteria a person will set for the things that they'll pay their money for, in this case a subjective standard of quality.

Their dollars perpetuate that standard of quality and the market answers with custom 1911s. There's really nothing particularly complicated about it, certainly nothing worth beating the OP's dead horse even further over.

Someone somewhere believes that the basically microscopic returns justify the cost, asking a question you already know the answer to on a Mongolian claymation board isn't going to change that.

> TLDR we agree with each other.

>>32333490
Thanks bud.

>>32329749
Funnily enough, and I assume this is due to my partly Jewish ancestry, this does not work on me at ALL. I will ALWAYS look for the cheapest option that I can confirm from outside sources works to a "decent enough" standard, or if it has a full warranty or something.

>>32329893
>Where do you live that $5k for a truck will get you anything more than a bottom-tier, piece of shit with 250k miles.
Not him but as a Midwestfag I can say: probably the Midwest. Specifically Cavetucky or Bansas, where everything is cheap as fuck.

>>32333551
Yep: the funniest being, due to us often wielding reason in "daring" ways, what you get is the most subjective part, and thanks to us inventing money, how badly you want it is the most objective part.

>>32333486
>t. chip connoisseur

>>32329868
Charlies made 1911 knockoffs in the middle of the jungle with basically hand tools and they still worked. They weren't match grade, but they still worked

>>32329868
>Those "nebulous" specs matter because otherwise the 1911 is not reliable.

If the 1911 is not reliable unless you spend a minimum of $2000+ dollars to buy a Les Baer or better, why buy one to begin with? Because if what you say is true, it would mean the 1911 is a poorly engineered gun that requires a tremendous amount of extra work done on it to make it work on the level of any modern design.

>>32334514

Shhh don't remind him. He need ultimate reliability from his fuckhuge 8 round carry piece

>>32329670
You can get a Casio F91 that performs better than any Rolex but it's not just performance that goes into luxury goods.

>>32333059
I shot with a buddy that I hadn't seen from high school a few weeks ago. His Kimber keyholed. I felt bad from the look on his face when I told him.

>>32330252
To some 50k is just in/out of reach as 5k. Depends on your comfort level. Ever watched pro sports? Pd millions. Is it worth it? Not my call. Or yours. Those with enough dollars to pay can deside what to do with they own money.
So many sound like hillary voters. Back off and leave people to they own

>>32334588

>to they own
Nigger detected

The reason athletes are paid so much is because they bring in even more. With a high end 1911 you're lucky to get your money back selling. Two completely different things.

>>32329396
Just get a Baer for thousands less and the same build quality and call it a day.

probably not a good fit for most average size people but I'm 6ft and 240lbs so the size and weight of a 1911 wouldnt bother me for carrying. Honestly, pretty much any handgun that functions reliably on an idividual basis is going to be just fine. All this arguing over X pistol being superior because it still functioned after getting thrown out of a plane and ran over by a SUV and the other pistol had a FTE after being ran over by a car is just mindless shit flinging.

>>32334659
Implying my $2000 dollar baer that has holster wear, scratches, a nice ding in it from dropping it, somehow needs to have a resale value? I will never sell it. It will either fall apart or be given to a grand kid.

It's a shooter and thats what I do with it.

The gun community is so fucking tarded. At least in the mountain biking community people recognized a Walmart $500 dollar mountain bike was no match to a $8000 dollar ride. That is also what blows my mind about the gun community. $2000 is not that much for a hobby. It really isnt. It's like guns = automatic poor fags.

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>>32329396
>will spending ludicrous money die with boomers?

Maybe, but I doubt it. Apples don't fall far from the tree, etc.

If you think 5 grand is expensive, go look at Heirloom Precision's stuff.

>>32334724
>>32334869
Yep my Baer is all I need.

Sold my springfield operator and see no need for any other 1911.

I had to see what the "semi-custom" non production 1911s were all about.

They really are that much better, but for the price if a Nighthawk or Wilson I can see no noticeable functionality differences. Although I have only finger banged the WC and NH.

>>32334910

Is this a joke? He builds off of colt 1911s and charges who knows what for it. His website even states "im not interested in building cookie cutter guns". Then why TF are you doing anything with 1911's. Hes cashing in on retards

>>32334587
Thats unfortunate... was it a barrel issue or ammo issue?

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I like this thread, so I have a reason to post our newest aquisition again.
Overprized competition guns, complete custom and with the exception of the rear sight, grips and some trigger parts carved from the steel block.

>>32329893
I bought a really nice 79 K10 with no rust, and 59,000 original miles that runs great for 4000. I've driven it for 10 years now and put nothing into it but a battery and oil.

>>32336867

I paid under 6k for a 2001 4runner with 150k. Needed a new bumper but has run well for 5 years

>>32336867
Then you're stupid because it should have had its coolant and brake fluid flushed at a minimum by now. The transmission should have had a filter or three u-joints and suspension components should have been greased,etc.

You're the reason we can't have nice things.

>>32333077
yea, I dont think that comparison is very good.

Store bought cold cuts is not the sweetspot for price/quality.

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I'll disclaimer this with that I have met both Joyce and Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat and have nothing but good things to say about them. They both do great things for the shooting community, not to say other major players in firearms manufacturing don't also do.

I've shot but never owned any premier boutique 1911s, So Nighthawks, Ed browns, Les baers, STI, SVIs and wilson combats. I plan on buying a Wilson in the next few years.

High end guns are like any other luxury item. What people choose to spend their money on is up to them. It can go from being a tool to being an heirloom. You have to admit that the top offers of all the custom makers are incredibly pretty guns.

Scoffing at someone buying a high end 1911 instead of a inland armory or a Kimber is like criticizing at somebody for going for the M5 BMW instead of a 328i. It's their money, why do you care?

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>>32336699
Are they in 45? What comp are they for? USPSA single stack?

>>32335578

People are paying for craftsmanship. It's not a function thing, it's pride. There's nothing wrong with it. It's buying an ebony table over a pressboard one. They do the exact same thing, but one is just a lot more impressive.

I would be surprised if most of his 1911s are ever shot outside the shop.

>>32329603
Actually Publix brand Cream Soda is pretty bitching.
Haven't tried their actual soda though

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>>32329434
>>32329418
>>32329419

LEAD is an investment right now, one that just might save your life. pic related.


>>32329396
Yeah I dont get it either.
Saw a nighthawk custom 1911 that I think goes for like 2-3K. But its heavily tricked out to the point where if I made 100K a year I would probably see it as worth the cost.

But I can probably buy at least 2 or 3 other nice guns for the same price.

>>32337901
>I would be surprised if most of his 1911s are ever shot outside the shop
Then there's no point

>>32329711
How? Please, do tell.

>>32339829
Not the /k/unt that called you out. But you are talking out your ass.

I sold my Springfield Operator after getting my Baer.

They are simply leagues apart.

Now a Springfield from their Custom shop is very on par with every Semi Custom on the market, but their prices have gone up as of recently because people have been finding this out.

Even the TRP is no where near close to a semi custom. The TRP and most production Springfields are closer to Dan Wessons.

>>32334659
Wrong. The reason athletes are pd so much is because someone can justify paying them so much. The fact that they get a possible return on their money is a means to justify. As is simply desiring a 5k gun. If you have enough you can make the choice to spend or not. For any reason you want.
You need to think a little further into issues. It used to be called critical thinking.
Btw not nigger or nigga. Funny how that always comes with a weak and incorrect thought position. It get old always teaching children like you.

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Someone convince me not to spring for the updated Colt Defender in 45 for $900 instead of a Glock 26 for $420.

I don't mind paying up for a gun, but still.

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Is Auto Ordinance a meme or are their guns actually good?

>>32340317
I love my New Agent. I replaced the trigger, safety, msh, slide stop, and hammer with vintage/original 1911 parts and had it fitted with a gold bead in the front gutter sights.

I really like the 3" for deep concealment. It used to be my primary CC but I moved up to a full size 1911 and then went to the dark side and started carrying a Glock 17...

But anyways I love the 3" 1911's don't let people tell you they are problematic. I have owned an ATI 3" double stacked fatboy as well as a Kimber Ultra Carry II(before I knew Kimber was shit), and now own the Colt.

All of them fun flawlessly but just buy both to be safe.

>>32340317
45 is iffy outa a short barrel and also capacity.

I love 45s and 1911s but my EDC is a Glock 26.
>up to 33rds of fuck you when needed.

>>32340317
dont subcompact 1911s are not reliable and wear parts out fast. if you must carry a 1911 cause 1911 get a commander.

>>32340342
They're good

>>32340342
>Auto Ordinance
I like mine and that it's made in the USA without being expensive. Probably my most accurate handgun for some reason, though the trigger is loose/rattles around on both AOs I've seen. Easy to fix if it bothers you

>>32340342
Pretty good for the price. Just don't buy it to do a Rowland conversion as the steel isn't made for super heavy loads.

The Philippine's have been making 1911's for years and have a decent product for the money.

Another plus is they are all series 70 if thats something you are looking for.

>>32340392
>though the trigger is loose/rattles around on both AOs I've seen
Mine doesn't...I don't think.

BRB, going to shake my gun.

>>32340399
You can do the Rowland to the Thompson 1911. It's slide is fully heat treated, per Rowlands recommendations.

I can't speak for the AO branded ones.

>>32340370
They do wear down the springs pretty fast. Like 1000 or so rounds fast. But I just keep a bunch of spare recoil assemblies around(STI, Kimber, Colt) and replace them as needed.

The 3" Kimber recoil assembly is one of the only things Kimber I can recommend. STI and Colt ones are great too

>>32329396
What's the nicest 1911 you can get before hitting diminishing returns?

>>32340421
sorry for some reason I was thinking ATI

I was wayyyy off disregard

I haven't read much about AO 1911's only their Tommy's.

>>32340432
Les Baer for Semi Custom
Dan Wesson/Springfield for off the line

Colt is ok, but if you must get a Colt please get a series 70.

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>>32333016
legit kek, well done sir

I totally agree. I like my Taurus PT 1911, even though it's considered "cheep" by most the fudge packing snobs here. I've literally never had any kind of malfunction on mine. I've had it for over 10 years now, and have put thousands of rounds through it.

That's not to say I don't on some degree, appreciate a list like >>32333059
I do, really, Springfield and COLT make nice guns. I'd really like to own one, but not at the price point they generally ask. Especially when I love my Taurus so much, don't do competition shooting, am confident in it firing each and every time, and really have no need to prove anything.

>>32340403
let me know, I hope yours doesn't

>>32340497
It doesn't

>>32340475
I'm not trying to shit on your guns as if they run they run just like any other 1911. But you really don't know what you are missing if you have never fired a Semi Custom.

I had to go down the rabbit hole. Started with an ATI, then a Kimber, then Colt, then Springfield, and finally a Baer.

With each step up I could tell the minute differences but if you don't really appreciate the small things a semi custom isnt for you.

Hell I still want a Colt Wiley Clapp 5" with gold bead and I know it won't be as smooth s my Baer which is why I can't justify buying it.

Again just trying to say if you haven't shot a semi custom its hard to explain why they are "worth" it.

>>32340432
something in the 700-800 range springfield or rugers good for that

>>32340518
And Thompson

What is the attraction to the 1911?
7rds, bulky, heavy, bad trigger... Why are people still obsessing with that pistol?

>>32340574
>bad trigger
Want to know how I know you've never shot one?

>>32340516
Yeah, I get it. I do appreciate the small things. I just dropped a Volquartsen TG2000 (cost almost as much as the gun) into my 10/22, and I get what you're saying. If I had the cash, I think I'd have gone with something else, so I'm not knocking more expensive, better performing 1911s.

I am saying that I won't feel bad for owning what I do, and taking the pleasure in shooting it that I do. I think /k/ is overrun with elitists that have lost sight of what's really important. Buying a gun that is reliable, fun to shoot, and doesn't bankrupt you shouldn't be scoffed at. Discussion like these end up leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

I can tell you're not that guy, I'm just talking generally. I do recognize the incremental benefits of better guns, and understand why people with the money would want a nicer 1911.

>>32329981
these are literally 10x as incredible in person

>>32340256
>this guy
I haven't heard of any sports team owners for major sports (football/basketball/baseball) that lost money over the course of their tenure. Can you name any?

I can think of plenty of people who threw good money at expensive versions of depreciating assets.

A sports team is most definitely not a depreciating asset; most guns, even high-quality guns, are, once you start putting rounds through them.

If you're not buying the gun to put rounds through it, what's the point, unless it has some significant historicity? If you inherit an heirloom 1911, that's one thing, but buying an expensive version of a depreciating asset in the hopes that it will be "worth the money"? I mean, value is always in the eye of the beholder, but let's not pretend that a $5,000 handgun is anything other than frivolous. At that point, it's not doing its job that much better than its counterparts, it's just a pissing contest (but all the power to you I guess).

>>32333117
While I'm sure some measure of the Les Baer/custom 1911 appeal is the name/rarity, a good measure of it is a combination of precision manufacturing, a wealth of experience in gunsmithing, and some measure of expertise/time spent per weapon that the rest of the market has a hard time matching.

Value is in the eye of the beholder.

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>>32333059
>no tier with Limcat on their own

>All this salty purchase justification

damn 1911 owners are insecure fedora faggots

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>>32341140
Nah we are just rich enough to own more than just one sort of hand gun but still know the ins and outs of a quality product.

Kind of like the difference between someone who drinks Jack and a whiskey connoisseur.

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>>32341221
Kentucky living bourbon fag here. Jack does what its supposed to do & tastes pretty decent without killing your wallet. Something to be said about that.

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>>32341311
Evan Williams beats the shit out of Jack any day for less and gets the job done without tasting like 20 day old flat alcoholic pepsi.

Jack isn't even whiskey, it's Jack. Just like fireball. It's all shit.

Is a basic Remington R1 worth $550?

>>32341401
>Jack isn't even whiskey, it's Jack
this

>>32331734
>*eyes*
>.45 huh?
>the feeding ramp is polished to a mirror sheen
I giggled and then desperately wanted one too.

>>32333059
Wouldn't mind owning a Dan Wesson or Springfield Operator for carry. I actually dislike the look of everyone up top's stuff except for Wilson's.

>>32341140
My favorite was this fag:>>32329638

>try and imagine a world where you didnt buy your fisher price glocks, where all guns were made of steel. try and imagine a gun that could last your whole life instead of something that keeps breaking and you just keep buying new parts for it. it might make a little sense to buy the best possible gun if you knew that would be the one and only pistol that you were going to use for the rest of your life

He really went above and beyond the expected "UR A POOR" and "I DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU" level responses and just created his only little world were men were MEN and somehow had thousands to spend on a pistol (but only one) that would NEVER break or wear out parts or need any attention.

A pistol which apparently needs thousands of dollars worth of gunsmithing knowledge and experience to function reliably.

>>32329685
having been down that road after buying a $2,500 les baer i can tell you the 1911 platform is inherently outdated, unreliable. the price point of premium 1911s has no bearing on their quality over lower priced models. a $500 philipino springfield 1911 is just as good as a $2,500 baer. this is an objective assessment. sure there are some ultimate shit tier manufacturers like llama in the $300 range that are total garbage across the board. but once you get to the forged frame and machined $500 range any 1911 is going to be equivalent in quality and function, short of a para ordnance or kimber which seem to churn out the same percentage of lemon guns as llama

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>>32342386
>i can tell you the 1911 platform is inherently outdated, unreliable.
>this is an objective assessment.

>>32342494
>
I will get more info on our 1911's (we use Sig, Springfield and Armscor) and I know I see them tagged for repair more often than the other pistols.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/160140_High_round_count_pistols__100_000___observations.html

oh look another guy who loves the aesthetics of 1911s and is in denial about their durability, reliability, and performance. show me a 1911 that can shoot 500 rounds of hollowpoint ammo without jamming and without you having to "polish the feed ramps"

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>>32333059
>Kimber needs to move up a tier...
Modern Kimber is MIM potmetal trash

>>32342562
this. see my post here >>32342386

kimber is like the nike shoe of guns. cheap crap thats overpriced and only sells because of branding and marketing, and falls apart quickly once actually used. looks cool though, before it falls apart.

>kimber mid tier
my mid tier kimber has a smooth like glass action, tight frame to slide finish, accurate as hell, and a sweet trigger. wtf are these niggas smokin

>>32342386
I'm going to go ahead and call bs on this.

You are correct in a sense that you could take a 300 at or 500-700 springer and do some fitting and polishing as well as a trigger job and get pretty damn close to a semi custom.

But the hand polishing/fitting and trigger job are why people pay the premium for a Baer or up.

Although I can't see the difference in function between a Baer and "insert top tier semi custom" aside from price. Functionally once you hit higher than Dan Wesson there is very little difference in performance.

Don't sit there trying to claim a 300 ATI out of the box is just as tight/smooth as any other semi custom out of the box because that's just asinine.

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>>32341401
>Evan Williams beats the shit out of Jack

I keked, but you aren't even wrong. Evan Williams is pretty good for a rail whiskey.

>>32342562
My kimber ultra carry 2 was my edc for a year. It was a stainless model.

The stainless barrel was rusting and pitting.

Glad I sold that pos. The ambi safety also cracked/broke on me as well.

Mim garbage metal pos.

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Nothing wrong with a little capitalism, let people do with their money as they see fit.

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>>32344418
Wish they made a more traditional looking double stack...

My ATI double stack fat boy is fun enough though and I already own a Baer so I just can't justify an STI.

>>32344480
I haven't received the pistol yet, but got the chance to hold another DVC, the grips are pure sex.

>>32343652
no the triggers and slide to frame fit wont be equivalent but reliability almost always gets worse the more expensive your 1911 is. the tighter the tolerances on your gun, the shittier your reliability

>>32333059
>>32333317

I inherited a Springfield.

It's pretty shit. Had it "fixed" and tuned etc many times and it still just FTE+FTF all day 'erry day. I finally just gave up on it after some parts replacements also failed after a few trips to the range. I'd sell it, but my father's ghost would kill me for that.

My Para 1911 eats garbage ammo like candy and has never had a failure.

But at least my Springfield looks nice.