Are piston AR really the best combination between East and West

>>32286718
Carrier tilt is a thing. So no.

just seems like a lot of extra money to get around "issues" that are really just basic maintenance

>>32286745
It's a meme, Phil.

>>32286718
yes. thats why the us army want to replace DI rifles with piston rifles

>>32286718
>>32286745
can you explain the difference to me?

>>32286783
Every piston rifles have carrier tilt, it's pretty much the piston slamming itself against the receiver after each round.

This is part of why the AK is considered "inaccurate".

>>32286745
phil post best post

File: tiltthefuckout.jpg (60KB, 799x533px)

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>>32286745
Proof that a broken clock is right sometimes.

>>32286756
Pic related

>>32286783
Direct Impingement uses a narrow gas tube that's open on the bolt to push the bolt to the rear.

Piston involves a metal rod machines as part of the bolt that goes into the gas tube, and the expanding gasses pushes it rearward.

Piston ARs are a fucking meme that doesn't solve any problems and just creates new ones, like pic-related.

>>32286817
What rifle is that, bro?

And carrier tilt is a fucking meme, you know the fucking muhreen use M27 as SAW right?

>>32286828
It's a piston AR. It's like every other piston AR.

>M27
>Muhreeenz

First of all, the M27 has barely seen use at all. Secondly, it's shit at it's job. Thirdly, it probably also suffers from carrier tilt. It's unavoidable in piston ARs, and, once again, doesn't solve any problems.

Lasty, the M27 doesn't use the same kind of piston that piston ARs do.

>Bro
Why do you allow yourself to live?

>>32286860
Dude, the marines love the M27 so much they are using it as both a SAW and DMR, and there's a speculation that they will adopt it as a full time service rifle.

Get some fucking news.

>It's a piston AR. It's like every other piston AR.
>Lasty, the M27 doesn't use the same kind of piston that piston ARs do.

>>32286718
dirty commies RUINING MY AR-CHAN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

File: 1457315278055.png (424KB, 550x310px) Image search: [Google]

424KB, 550x310px

>>32286783
Gas operated rifles like the M4 use a cycling system that vents hot gases directly into the gun's internals. This increases wear, on parts, burns through lubricant and makes the gun degrade faster. Piston rifles, like the HK416 use that gas to push a pin, which in turn cycles the weapon without any gas or shit getting into the gun. This makes piston AR's much more reliable.

In 2011, the US military conducted a dust test that compared the reliability of various rifles over 120000 rounds. The M4 had over 800 failures. The HK416 had 140 failures. The evidence is pretty freaking clear that piston ARs are superior. It's just that there are a lot of AR-15 fanboys who love lubing their gun everyday out there.

Let's go ahead and make DI AKs while we're ruining timeless rifle designs. Let's just shit all over everything, for the sake of looking tacticool

>>32286982
The gas key directs gas into the center of the BCG on the back of the bolt, not the receiver.

>>32287011
There's no point, piston is better.

But they do make blowback AK for 9mm.

>>32286817
What am I looking at?

>>32287019
>AK
>designed for piston operation, so piston is better
>AR
>designed for direct impingement, so DI is better
holy shit it's almost like they're different

>>32287033
False, piston AR is better.

>>32287032
the bolt carrier tilts downward in the back because of how the piston pushes on it, and wears away the buffer tube

>>32286756
Your life's a meme

>>32287039
Bullshit

>>32286817
Yes but, we have seen from torture tests that piston guns can handle heat better than direct but I think his is most likely due to having more metal there.

Has anyone explored options to make direct gas better at handling heat?

File: 2015-02-08-16_24_29-The-Black-Rifle-I-M16-Retrospective-Better-Copy.pdf-Adobe-Reader.png (855KB, 1500x793px) Image search: [Google]

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Colt model 703 did it better.

>>32287042
wow wears away at a $15 part that is in no way replaceable...

>>32286718
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/29/6-reasons-ak-47-reliable-rifle-world-guide-kalashnikovs-magic-aspiring-gun-designers-part/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/30/6-reasons-ak-47-reliable-rifle-world-guide-kalashnikovs-magic-aspiring-gun-designers-part-ii/

>>32286718
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?62889-SCAR-vs-AR-A-detailed-look

>>32286982

>that pic
>right click, save as

>>32286718
What's the second grip?

>>32290166
Proprietary Heckler&Koch™ brand Heckler&Koch 416™ grip.

Replacements cost $120 each.

>>32287798
>thefirearmblog

>>32286982
You literally have zero clue about anything relating to SI rifles.

>>32290225
> he greentexted a word, thinking it means anything

>>32286982

I don't know about any poorly run military tests, but I have a SIG516 upper and a DD upper and the SIG upper is definitely the more finicky of the two.

>>32290225
>thefirearmblog

>>32290225
>thefirearmbalrog

>>32290166
>>32290198
You can get it off HK parts for about 42 dollarydoos

>>32286718
>East and West
what did he mean by this?

>>32286745
HK, LWRC, SIG, and a few others have taken care of Carrier tilt.

Hence why HK's 416 is slowly taking over Europe. It's the M4 they've always wanted but distinctly European and piston driven so they don't have to eat the American humble pie.

>>32286718
>>32293874
OP's going to have to clarify what "East and West" are here. In terms of the Cold War, this could mean placing the West's AR design against the East's AK design. Western Europe however has commonly had gas piston rifles similar to the AK, such as the FN FNC, HK G36, and even as far as the L85 just to name a few examples.

>>32286745
If you want to answer your question yourself, you could start at the StG-44 and go forwards in terms of gas-driven, automatic combat rifles. Just sayin.

>>32286718
If you mean short stroke piston rifles made to for a piston and resembles an AR (Sig MCX, T86, T91, T65K2/K3, AR-18, HK 416) then yes. If you mean shitty conversions that only lead to problems, no. DI uppers aren't made for pistons. Piston designed rifles are.

>>32293888
>HK, LWRC, SIG, and a few others have taken care of Carrier tilt.
Except for the fact that they have not, okay.

>>32286774
It doesn't.

>>32287081
>Yes but, we have seen from torture tests that piston guns can handle heat better than direct but I think his is most likely due to having more metal there.

Assuming equal quality a DI will last longer than a piston, there is no op rod to bend.