How does /k/ feel about the merkava? I'm going to be serving

>>32277965
I don't know shit, but it sure looks like the HALO tank.

But seriously, if it's jewtech, it's US tech.

>>32277965
It's a second class MBT.

>>32278295
Most of its tech was developed in Israel. Partially funded by the us, though.
>>32278314
Got anything more specific?

>>32278369
Frontally mounted engine -succeptible do damage from incomming fire.A shell doesn't need to penetrate in order to cause damage to the power pack, final drive or transmision.
Externally mounted coaxial machine-gun - again one hit and you're out of a support weapon.Your wingman gets enemy infantryman atop him and you can't do shit.
Crew copartmen for infantry accompaniment - increased weight and generaly pointless becouse armored units have IFV's in their ranks to provide support.
No auto-loader.

>>32279266
>Frontally mounted engine -succeptible do damage from incomming fire.A shell doesn't need to penetrate in order to cause damage to the power pack, final drive or transmision.
This is a bit weird, but its not too bad, if it was that bad no IFV would have there engines here.

>Externally mounted coaxial machine-gun - again one hit and you're out of a support weapon.
There is one internal coaxial 7,62 MG and one external 12,7 coaxial MG. So this is infact a good thing.

>Crew copartmen for infantry accompaniment - increased weight and generaly pointless becouse armored units have IFV's in their ranks to provide support.
It does not increase weight at all. Its just the space where the engine would have been if it wasnt mounted in the front. You cant just remove 30% of the tank anyway. Also this is where they store more ammunition and other supplies = better endurance

>No auto-loader
Again, not a huge deal, but I guess OP will consider it a huge as fuck deal if he is assigned as a loader.

>>32277965
nowadays merkava is more a meme tank
was pretty good way back, but it didn't aged well.
the fact the only enemy he fights are children armed with rocks does not make a whole lot of good to his reputation.
maybe if they had sent some to fight in Iraq, but I suppose Israel had better things to do than support their lifelong allied in a war against one of their own enemies.

>>32279387
>the fact the only enemy he fights are children armed with rocks

Fucking moron

>>32277965
pretty good. I did a writeup here:
>>32247150

>>32279377
I'm actually not in the tank, even though I wanted to be. I'm the infantry that's supporting them. פלוגה מסייעת.
>>32279387
We have a tiny military, compared to the USA, that's all used to defend Israel. I don't see how our help would actually help the us in Iraq, or how we could really help with no capability to actually get there with these fuck heavy tanks.
>>32279414
Well, were not fighting Egypt, while Gaza doesn't have any tanks.

>>32277965
They seem to flip over pretty easily

>>32279429
>Well, were not fighting Egypt, while Gaza doesn't have any tanks.

No, but Hamas militants with brand new Kornets aren't "children with rocks"

>>32279429
>פלוגה מסייעת
אז אתה זוכה לראות את הכבדים בפעולה בלי לטפל בהם. כיף.

>>32279414
oh, I forgot how they fight last gen, state of art, Russian tanks on daily basis.
get real, those merkavas don't fight anything that can fight back

>>32279442
Keep digging that hole deeper

>>32279441
Yep. Still kinda mad I don't get to fire that cannon, but with a bit of luck ill get the mortar truck. Though fuck knows what is really fun in the long run....
>>32279440
True. I wonder, for a tank designed for asymmetrical warfare, how will it fare against other modern mbt? Can the anti missile system shoot down incoming shells?

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>>32279442
>get real, those merkavas don't fight anything that can fight back

You're a real special kind of stupid

>>32279471
haha oh wow
thanks, is good to see how good that meme tank really is with a engine up in the front.
a leo would take the same hit and walk off unharmed

>>32279488
Doubt it, considering these are missiles that destroy Abrams.

>>32279429
>I'm actually not in the tank, even though I wanted to be. I'm the infantry that's supporting them
Are you attached directly to armored brigades, or are you attached as part of a larger armored division (artillery, etc)?
I heard the IDF was integrating infantry as organic to its tank brigades to allow them greater independence.

>>32279488
Now that's a goalpost shift right there

>>32279499
>I heard the IDF was integrating infantry as organic to its tank brigades to allow them greater independence.
It's been that way for a very long time.

>>32279499
Directly to armored brigades, I think. This has yet to happen; the force was created right before the last conflict and didn't get a chance to really go in with tanks yet, I think. I dunno how much I can say so Ill just leave it at that.

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I think they look great

>>32279498
>these are missiles that destroy Abrams
sure
but just you know merkava is shit even if compared to Abe, and Abe is not even close to leo

>>32279516
why they dont use era when lined up like that? its just a drill or israel dont put era on their tanks?

>>32279537
What are you talking about?

Why would Israel use ERA? Why does the tanks being in a line have anything to do with it?

>>32279499
>I heard the IDF was integrating infantry as organic to its tank brigades.
Isn't that a standart millitary tactic since 1939.I mean IFVs were design specifically for that role - supporting tank units.

>>32279518
I'll never understand why you Leopard retards think the Leo has impenetrable armor for some reason. It's no more special than any other western tank.

>>32277965
anon, is a obsolete meme tank fighting a never ending asymmetrical warfare.
it does not compare to any other modern MBT, but hey, it don't have too, because it wont fight other modern MBTs.
but just you know, I would be glad to be outside one of them if it ever had to fight any MBT manufactured after 2001

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>>32277965

>>32277965
Currently best tank in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLCVi6PVNdY

>>32279571
its the best tank, you cunt.
and to be fair, yeah, most of the other western tank are similar to them in performance.
except merkava, because it needs a goddamn new armor ASAP.

>>32279597
>its the best tank, you cunt.

Based on you wishing it is? Cause you've no idea what the armor is, and the Abrams has more of it.

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>>32279591

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>>32279597
>its the best tank, you cunt.

>People on /k/ think this is evidence

Ah, blind fanboyism

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>>32279615

>>32279570
No. It's part of their relatively recent craze around shortening sensor-shooter cycles.
It's a poor decision for fighting conventional militaries, but with the end of the SAA, they can lead force development for medium-intensity conflicts.
They previously had a motorized reconnaissance company attached to each brigade, but I read somewhere they're removing tanks and sticking in a whole battalion of mechanized infantry, including indirect fire capability (something beyond the 60mm mortar on each tank) to each brigade.

Israel never really had western-style IFVs, and never planned around their use.

>>32279570
Well, in the idf, they were using regular infantry for this. They decided to switch to infantry trained in the tank training base because regular infantry just don't understand how to work with tanks well. Idk if this is a meme or not, but I was told people were getting run over by tanks because they didn't realize that you shouldn't stand behind them.

>>32279591
>IDF defending Merk's superiority
yeah totally.
>>32279592
thophy was THE active defense system when it was made public.
but few years later it still didn't retired RPGs from market.
and lemme say it: it is not good enough to justify having a shitty armor like the merk has, seriously, they can afford better shit.

>>32279610
>>32279621
>not loving leopard 2A5,6,7 and 7+
look anon, is OK that you love Israel and all, but hey, come on.

>>32279642
>but few years later it still didn't retired RPGs from market.
Like the RPG users have any choice nothing they can do about it. Just accept Merkava invulnerability

> shitty armor like the merk has
>*citation needed*

>>32279804
anon, they still use plain steel even in merk IV.
they could get better armor and you know it

>>32279570
IFV was designed as invulnerable moving trench for infantry, at least how Eike Middeldorf, "father of the IFV" envisioned it. To bad all IFV designers failed to deliver required qualities in the metal.

>>32279848
>anon, they still use plain steel even in merk IV.
>*citation needed*

>>32279804
didnt someone just posted a video of a merkava getting hit and destroyed by a dozen rpgs in this very thread?

>>32279421
Nice write-up. You serving in the armored corps?

>>32279873
>wahhhhh! stupid goym dont love my tank!
don't cry IDF... if not for the armor Merkava could totally fight the armata, if is that what you want to hear.

IDF, you are not the worst of them all
/k/
try not implode with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAKxOvG5oD4

>>32279915
It is good that you don't have any actual arguments.

>>32279960
is the same amount of arguments saying merkava is up to the big boys in the yard like leo and armata: none.

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Hey. IDF guys. What kind of attachments do these chicks have for their slings? It isn't the usual paracord arrangement... and I can't quite make it out.

>>32280025
>leo
>made from plain steel and air
>big boy

>>32277965
Best tank to roll over ayyrab chilluns.
Ask your commanding officer.

>>32277965
Generally inferior protection, but that's irrelevant against what it faces

>>32279377
Wrong. It makes the tank taller and requires more side armor, which makes it less efficient for a given weight. Ignoring, as has been pointed out before, the issue of being mobility killed.

>It does not increase weight at all.
No, that's just it's rear turret necessitating a taller tank for a given degree of gun depression.

This doesn't get into it's less than ideal composite modules on the turret.

>>32279915
Not an answer

>>32279377
>no IFV would have there engines here

That's the point, it's supposed to be an MBT not an IFV. But it's just a second-rate MBT.

Hello IDF

Why are you only fed tuna and chocolate halva

>>32279266
>Externally mounted coaxial machine-gun - again one hit and you're out of a support weapon.Your wingman gets enemy infantryman atop him and you can't do shit.

It is literally one of most Jewish innovations of all time. It was originally cheapo main simulator. .50BMG can be loaded to have similar ballistics as main gun. Allows training against manned and moving targets. Saves a ton of shekels as hand loaded .50 tracers are way cheaper than 105mm or 120mm shells, training or live ones. Also relining main gun barrels isn't cheap. Now in age of advanced electronics for simulator it has been found a useful addition to 7.62mm and main gun. Useful in limiting collateral damage and international outrage when Palestinians do their periodical chimpouts. .50BMG can penetrate walls better than 7.62mm and doesn't level buildings like main gun.

>Crew copartmen for infantry accompaniment - increased weight and generaly pointless becouse armored units have IFV's in their ranks to provide support.

It is ammo compartment. Tank can dump some of it's ammo and be used for med evac or as kinda shitty APC. Side effects from rear access door, that was there to make bailing out safer and loading ammo safer.

>No auto-loader.

Slav detected. Extra crewman is quite useful when maintenance and guard shifts happen. Also extra pair of eyes in combat where most of time spent observing environment instead going trough mad minute while slugging off against enemy tanks.

>>32279848
Every tank uses high-tensile steel as part of their composite armor, retard.

>>32279597
>its the best tank, you cunt.
Jesus christ

>>32280129
as a part of their composite armor, not in place of it, and RHA is from WWII.
seriously, Merkava has baby armor if compared to leopard 7

>>32280117
Does it still have a mortar?

>>32280149
yes, our lord and savior aproves leopard 2A7.

>>32280184

Yes. Even it's purpose has changed a lot since original Mk1. Back then it was mostly for illumination as when it was designed NVG's weren't common and illumination shells were the standard.

>>32279488
Dude no.

A leo would have had the crew vaporized in place of the engine. The engine would have probably been fucked too along with the ammo.

Leos are fucking sweet and I love them but they aren't built to take hits at all.

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>>32277965
1. It's the wrong place to seriously ask such question. Unless meme answers is what you're looking for.

2. It's a good tank. Mark 4, as intended, is the best in the series.

3. No one knows how exactly it compares other MBTs because it has never faced one, nor faced similar threats and environments. At days end, it plays to it's strengths, which are unique Israeli characteristics (mainland logistical centers are never more than a few hours of driving away), design philosophy crating more for asymmetrical warfare (rather than having a big chunk of planing go to "but what if we war Russia?") and placing the tank's crew (protection and even comfort) in top priority- even at the expanse of some of it's preferences.

4. If you insist on ranking it, than I would avoid titling them with "best tank, second best tank" and so on, but rather on on a tires basis which clusters varying tanks based on general quality rather than specific characteristic. In such mindset, I think it's safe to place the Merk, especially it's latest iteration, in the higher tier, along with other leading western MBTs- having some advantages and some disadvantages compared to them.

5. In any case, I think that you'll have good time serving in one. And good luck in your service.

>>32277965
You will be okay, op. It's not really relevant how it compares to other MBT's, since no one here actually knows. In the end of the day, it gets the job done.

>>32280502
>>32280542
Serious replies, nice.
In the end, I don't even get one of these, but rather an m113 shitbox to ride in. Maybe you know this merkgunner; does מסייעת have any namer APC yet?

>>32280588
>does מסייעת have any namer APC yet?
No, not in the 401st at least. The next in line to get Namers were combat engineering as far as I know, but I really don't how that's going.

>>32280619
Shit, going to be riding around in zippos. Rip.

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>>32278295
this. i will also say they are extremely heavy. which makes it difficult if not impossible to transport by c-130s and other planes.

>>32284313
Where the fuck would Israel want to transport it you doofus? It fits their doctrine perfectly.

Solid tank for Israel's needs and situation. Not really good for other countries.

Several have been destroyed in combat but this is never the indication of a bad tank. Several of the much-hyped T-90s have been lost in Syria now as well. There's no such thing as an invincible tank and the Merkava's track record on absorbing modern ATGM's without being lost is fairly impressive, even before they added a proven APS

>>32279387
>>32279442


Hamas and Hezbollah are much more well equipped than ISIS, the Iraqi Army in 03, and any Syrian rebel group

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>>32279591
>pic related
>>32285414
I hope you're not serious.

>>32279377
>This is a bit weird, but its not too bad, if it was that bad no IFV would have there engines here.
It's not a IFV you dense fucking bastard. MBTS and IFVs are different fucking vehicles serving different roles.

>>32279266
>>32279377
The engine is at the front because the Israelis made the wise decision that it's better to have a mobility kill with the crew intact than to have the crew compartment be penetrated but the engine be fine.

Easier to get a new tank than a new crew.

>>32286226
>Easier to get a new tank than a new crew

What year is this, 1945?

The cost of a tank far exceeds the cost of a human, any government that isn't riddled with feels brigade politicians understands this

I remember seeing videos of merk IVs getting destroyed by ATGMs hitting the front of the turret during the last fight against lebanon.

They seem good in that they are well armored from most angles against weak AT weapons but it comes at the cost of weaker frontal armor that can't survive modern AT weapons. They're probably useless for MBT vs MBT.

>>32286433
>What year is this, 1945?
1973 October War. You know, the conflict where they had the highest armor loss then they have ever had (1000 tanks)? Alot of the human casualties they had during that war were tankers.

>The cost of a tank far exceeds the cost of a human, any government that isn't riddled with feels brigade politicians understands this
If you got more tanks the tankers then it is not a problem.

Even more when wars are expected to be over in mere days in very heavy fighting where you got alot of high losses of armored vehicles which also results in loss of crew if you had it coventionally built.

In the jew tanks you got low crew losses since it is built for maximum crew survivability at the cost of the vehicle. Which is a fair price since the jews got more tanks then tankers.

>>32284313

C-130 can carry bit over 30 tons of cargo. It is way too small plane to carry any MBT.

Airlifting any armor is a complex problem. Even if an aircraft could carry say 200 tons of payload, it would be likely that it couldn't take more than two tanks. While there would be payload left to carry third one, aircraft could be impossible to balance out with three tanks.

That is before we have to factor in things like range and runway.

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>>32286433
>Easier to get a new tank than a new crew.

6 million jews surrounded by 1 billion muslims.

>>32286226
>The engine is at the front because the Israelis made the wise decision that it's better to have a mobility kill with the crew intact than to have the crew compartment be penetrated but the engine be fine.
Except front engine provides less protection than actual armor.
No matter, since IDF is not going to fight against any modern MBTs.

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Man never realised how similar the slammer from Arma 3 looks to the Merkava.

>>32278314
>>32279266
>he thinks the Merkava is meant to fight other MBTs
hey fucko, most nations buy gear that's suited to THEIR needs. The Merkava is meant to take on sandnigger terrorists and sandnigger T-72s, not fight in your gay little Fulda Gap fantasy.

>>32286433
>haha lol manpower is infinite teehee :^)
Bashar Assad detected

>>32286686
Surely you can find that video if it's actually out there.

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>>32285734
Yay, someone saved my crappy collage. Nice to see it still circling around.
But yeah, I think should be public knowledge by now that Hamas, and much more so Hezbollah, are far better trained and equipped- both in personal gear and tools of war (Hezbollah's Sigint and Elint capabilities often leave experts with mouths open when they first realize how extensive they are). And since Hamas is basically a baby Hezbollah on budget, these 2 should be considered a league of their own, and nothing like the others akbars that literally "spray and pry" because Allah will guide their bullets.

That's not some kind of an excuse for Israel when fighting them, but too often I see countries/organizations that fight Israel being discredited in a reverse attempt to discredit Israel for winning wars/fights against them. I really would like to see more professionally-orientated dis/k/ussions rather than personal convictions and subjective narrative based ones.

>>32286965
All NATO armor in ArmA 3, except for the light APC, is based on the Merk and it's chassis. Interestingly, in early builds of the game, the Iranian forces used Tavors, until it was changed so that the rebel forces would use them- suggesting that they're being supplied by Israel as a counter-CSAT proxy.

>>32279913
No, but I'm very close to the matter from the engineering side.

>>32279848
M8, as someone who has seen the tank production line, I can safely say that you are full of shit.

>>32286965
>>32287164
Have you seen the crysis tank? It's like a love child of a challenger and merk IV

>>32280032
It is the regular IDF sling with clips that attach to paracord loops.
The clips are wrapped in a nylon sleeve to prevent glitter and noise.

>>32280115
After the 2014 war, a lot of complaints were recieved about the field rations, and they are being replaced with real food.
Cold tuna and beans no more!

>>32280184
Yes, and the mortar is highly regarded; current planning includes it in future vehicles.

>>32280619
>but I really don't how that's going
New production Namerim are going straight to them, fitted with Trophy.
From what I've been able to gather, results are highly positive.

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>>32287185
fucking hell, forgot the pic

>>32285734
That's what happens when you give 18 year old conscripts a tank and train intensively. Accidents happen.
Motivation to get to the armored corps is at an astounding low (which is a shame as they do some of the best work), which means that they don't get the best guys; unfortunately these factor combine to give a rather high accident rate.

>>32286226
>Easier to get a new tank than a new crew.
But you don't even need a new tank. After the battle has moved, you recover and repair, replacing only the damaged parts.
The IDF stocks more spare components for its tanks than practically any other army.

>>32287227
>Motivation to get to the armored corps is at an astounding low
because it's one of the shittiest job in the combat range. "Elite" infantry units are the only ones with high motivation. And the air force is probably in even worse shape than armored corps in that regard.

>>32286911
>Except front engine provides less protection than actual armor.
While I won't delve into opsec, there's far more to it than you seem to think, and the Merkava is the result of very careful and clever optimization. The Israelis have had access to the Abrams, andLeopard programs for quite a while, and there's more than prestige at stake with the front engine continuing on to the mark 4.

>>32286991
It is meant to fight other tanks, but in the Golan heights and Sinai desert, not the plains of Europe. Hardly surprising that the optimization for different parameters produced a different optimum.

>>32287221
>Abrams bustle and blowout panels
Ouch

>>32287164
Hezbollah were well equipped 15 years ago, now they're just conscript grunts with flashy weapons.
They've taken a ridiculous number of casualties in Syria to date.

As for Hamas, they're even more of a joke. They aren't well trained, and they're even worse equipped.

Hamas has no force projection at all, and Hezbollah is getting its shit pushed in by ISIS and Jaish al Fateh on every front it enters, especially against Jabhat Al Fatah Sham.

>>32287245
>shittiest
It gets a very bad reputation because they don't know how to present themselves. They do amazing work keeping the borders quiet and very little is said about it.
The Navy had a similar problem of lack of enthusiasm until around 2 years ago they realized that the ships, white uniforms, and heavy weapons make wonderful vids. Since they've spread those about motivation has gone way up. Shiryon should do the same.

>>32287276
When I was in high school, they took our entire class to a armored corps show. They had some merks and MLRS doing some maneuvering and target shooting with an enclosure of vehicles to gawk at near by. I wonder if they still do this kind of thing, I imagine it should be quite impressive to some.

>>32286901
>Muh 6 million

>>32287215
Do you know if armored corps get namer any time soon? The assisting force.

>>32277965
Jewish weapon that Zionist use funded by donations people make to Israel to end the hunger in that country but stolen by possibly the most corrupt government in the world.


I think it looks like oppression.

>>32287321
I think they're next in line after the engineers, but production is slow so...
I don't have exact knowledge of the priority order, this is based on extrapolation from rumors.

>>32287326
>I know nothing about the middle east: the post

>>32287328
I just joined, and read up on the "Zippo" m113. I'm not looking forward to sitting in one of these.

>>32287335
The 113 is a total piece of shit.
I tend to refer to it not as a APC but
"חתיכת פח מתנייע".
Fortunately for you if you're in the support company you should be mostly out of the line of direct fire, for what it's worth.

>>32287333
>I know nothing about Israel
>the post

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>>32287352
Get rekt

>>32287349
Yeah depends, if I get מסיירת I do get fire. So 1 in three.
>>32287352
I drink oppression.
>>32287363
Where you at nigga
I'm on my way to shizafon right now.

>>32287368
>Where you at nigga
Technion. As I've mentioned before, I'm close from the engineering side of the business.

>>32287363
hat would make you a government employee or a tourist.One being part of the problem, the other knowing nothing about Israel.

>>32287215
Nice. That's good to hear.

>>32287368
>I'm on my way to shizafon right now.
I... I'm sorry...

>>32287374
>hat would make you a government employee or a tourist
Lol wut
The blue one is a citizen ID
The green one is a army ID
confirmed for not knowing shit about Israel.

>>32287374
>Soldier(warrior) card
>Tourist/government employee
Stop posting.
>>32287377
I've spent two weeks there already, its not terrible. I imagine it will be come summer.

>>32287373
>Technion
nice. I was one point too low on the sechem to apply for an electrical engineer degree there. Trying to apply to tel aviv uni now.

>>32287393
Good luck
TAU is well regarded

>>32287391
>>32287380
>Soldier
>Not a government employee

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i'm just gonna leave this here

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>>32287263
That's the type of arguing that I'd love to see here more often- not just spouting merchant memes.

>>32287326
The Merk doesn't look like oppression. Pic related is the true embodiment of oppression.

>>32287441
"Army of the people, by the people".
If you know anything about Israel, than the first thing that you learn is that's it's not a country with an army, it's an army that has it's own country.

>>32287448
Where is "here"? I need exact coordinates.

>>32287456
Yes indeed, thats plenty of oppression to go around.

>>32287441
>damage control
>not knowing what a real people's army is.

>>32287450
The greatest thing about the nakpadon is that your pic isn't even its final form.

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>>32287450
Here.

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>>32287473

>>32287450
What the actual fuck is that thing?

OP, do you watch Fauda? Haha I'm curious

>>32287496
Typhoon Explosive System

>>32287496
Nagmachon, a Centurion based combat engineer vehicle.
Soon to be replaced by Namers.

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>>32279537

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>>32279915

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>>32286901

>>32277965

Cannot wait to penetrate it's soft underbelly with KEW, while driving full speed in the Sinaï

t. Egyptian tanker

>>32277965
The only thing good about the Israeli army .
Israels army is just a shadow of what it used to be

>>32288049
/Thread

>>32288018
keep dreaming sunshine, you'd lose again

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>>32288018
Say hello to my leetle friend!

>>32277965
interesting tank and the only one today capable of transporting infantry inside

>>32277965
Has a 60mm mortar for some reason, like most isreali tanks

>>32290296
Same reason they have about three times more MG's than other tanks, infantry in cover are one of their great persistant threats.

>>32277965
Looks like an ayy lmao

File: millennium-falcon-space.jpg (106KB, 1200x600px) Image search: [Google]

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The turret kind of makes me think of this.
>It's pretty cool
Also the space behind it is for food water and ammo, not tropp carrying.

>>32290386
ayyy

>>32287496

APC

>>32279518
Abe and Leo were born around the same time for similar reasons. They're not that different, much like children separated at birth and raised by different parents. They're comparable because their purpose was to fill the fulda gap with the corpses of thousands of russian tanks and run away to shoot a thousand more. Merks are closer to the Chally, to endure and actually be useful in urban combat with an emphasis on crew survivability. Also let's not forget that Leo 2a6 can fire the Merk's lahat missiles, along with Leo and Merk sharing a 55 caliber gun while Abe still clings to his 44 caliber main gun.

I suppose this is just a general question, but what's life like as a tank crewman? Have any of you folks been deployed as part of an armored unit?