Medicfags! Does having lots of muscle mass help you survive

Short answer. Yes

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>>32264230
How much is enough though?

>>32264221
fat helps more since muscles have more blood. thats why police needs more shots to bring down fat people

>>32264221
Shoot through your gut, and then shoot through your thigh.
Tell me if muscle was all that much more difficult for the bullet to travel through.

Alternatively, you could use your brain, and realise that you are coated in smooth muscle in most areas of your body already, and as such a minor increase in surface muscle in certain areas is unlikely to drastically change your resistance to ballistics travelling at those sort of speeds.

>>32264270
But more muscle means more stuff for them to shoot. Less likely to hit something vital.

>>32264295
Um.
You realise that bullets penetrate all the way through often enough right?
Meaning if he had an angle on your centre of mass, he still has that angle on your centre of mass.

If the bullet was heading towards your heart, a few inches of muscle is unlikely to change that.

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>>32264303
Better muscles also help you're body use blood more effectively. So if you're bleeding out you can last longer.

>>32264295
Considering that you get bigger you will actually be easier to hit, same as if you are really obese.

>>32264249
Wrong.

Muscle is alot more dense than fat

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>>32264221
No. Read Black Hawk Down.
Skinny's got hit multiple times due to being.... Skinny. 5.56 needs at least 6" to frag.

>>32264470
They were also drugged up on all sorts of shit.

Fat closes the wound canal better and muscles bleed more.

Its a trade off. Too much muscle increases bloodloss. Too much fat is ... well you are more humble.

You can see this in hunting. If you dont get a fatal shot on a boar the fat tissue will stop blood loss pretty good. ( it still will die of internal bleeding but this may take up to 2 hours)

>>32264221
I've heard complaints from surgeons operating on juicy bois, more dense tissue to rummage through.

>>32264221
no high test kills you fast

>>32264329
That's plain untrue.
More muscles create higher blood preassure, same as being obese.
If you hit an artery/vain you bleed out faster than a "normal" person.

>>32264852
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/surviving_trauma_being_a_woman_confers_advantages

It's not about how dense it is, a bullet will penetrate flesh no matter how stronk you are.

But being strong makes your body better at coping with shock/trauma and recovering from injuries.

>>32264876
>But being strong makes your body better at coping with shock/trauma and recovering from injuries.
dumb cunt read the fucking articles!
being "stronk" makes you die faster.

>>32264857
>more athletic means higher blood pressure
>vain

Are you retarded or meming?

>>32264221
Yes of course, also shoot yourself in the head with small calibers to build up immunity to boollets

>>32264470
So that means I'm invincible....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI0euMFAWF8

>>32265129
>read the fucking articles!
there's one (1) article posted here about women

meanwhile, every doctor you ask will tell you that your chance of survival increases if you're in good shape because your body can endure more stress

>>32264221
Medic for 9 years here.
Way too many variables: caliber, angle, fps/velocity/specs of round and firearm, etc.
In general, anything to slow down the bullet to prevent penetration into vital organs is a good thing.

>>32264249
true, muscles are more vascular than fat(which is far less vascular).

>>32264513
true

>>32264597
true--I'm a 66F now in the army.

>>32264329
this is the right line of thinking, but the wrong organ system. Muscles are used to either pull bones, or contract organs, skins, sphincters, whatever else your body decides it wants to contract. Your cardiovascular system is what you are referencing, along with some erythropoesis from the skeletal system.

>>32264857
absolute falsehood.


TL;DR, may be true, may be false. Too many variables. Generally speaking, while muscles are more vascular than fat which can increase bleeding, prevention of penetration of vital organs is more important to survival.

>>32264221

My dreams of becoming SF are crushed because I have shit DNA

What do now.

Intelligence?

Any branch that operates or at least works in hostile areas that doesnt require shock work?

>>32264221
Being lean and thin make it easier for EMTs and doctors to operate on you, makes it easier to move bodied and provide treatment in general.

Sorry fatties, you will die just from being fat if you're injured, if only for the sake that it makes it harder for everyone else to do their job

>>32265276
>if you're in good shape because your body can endure more stress
they obviously talk about not being an unhealthy murrifat fuck with sugar and cholesterol problems, it's not like bodybuilders are any healthier than average people.

your body is healthier if you exercise regularly. being strong has nothing to do with it. dealing with trauma however is a hormonal thing. testosterone helps you fight to the last breath instead of going into shock but you also bleed out way faster.

>>32265520
>tldr cardio bunnies are the ultimate survivors

>>32265529

Yeah but cardio bunnies have less strength than a dudebro jock

SF are usually either cardio bunnies or dudebro jocks, depending on mission

>>32265556
i bet there is some steamy action when the night goes dark and they get bored. maybe even some cosmoline is involved.

>>32265577

I have heard about homosexuality in SF, kid you not.

Wikileaks had some crazy shit emails about what went on on some US embassy or base with private contractors and shady operators

Very gay, very nasty shit.

>>32265278
>larger body-mass without an increase in heart volume won't lead to an increased blood pressure

How else does your heart get an increased amount of blood a further distance, other than work harder?
Nice roleplay though, mine was the only one you really fucked up.

>>32264470
Only an issue if someone is shooting you with ball ammunition that needs to tumble or frag to leave a wound channel.

New US army copper rounds are longer and supposedly tumble better in skinnies FYI.

>>32265365
SF?

If you mean bulky, don't worry, most operators aren't bulky but are lean little assholes. Big bulky dudes can't run, climb, and carry like little wiry dudes can.

>>32264221
Basically no. Armor does, though, and you need some muscles to carry it effectively.

>>32265613
it works harder to maintain the same blood pressure, all else equal.

>>32266029
That's wrong though.

>>32266048
>muscles giving an appreciable effect on gunshot wound survival
>armor doesn't help
>don't need some strength to fight in it effectively
That's wrong though.

>>32266048
>>32266029
wrong

>>32264482
>he thinks khat is like meth

What do you call an American version of a Vatnik?

>>32266589

fatnik

>>32265601
>cite wikileaks
>no link
[source it nigga]

>>32264270
Medic fag here. This.

>>32264221
In theory yes, but realistically you're going to be shot from within the effective range of whatever round and it won't make a lick of difference.

>>32264295
Medic here. This.

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>>32267467
I think he's talking about the whole kabul embassy thing with Armor Group or whoever it was. They were getting drunk and doing naked barbecues and shit like that. He is exaggerating based on half-heard rumors.

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>>32267648

mfw i will never be in an Israeli shitting contest

>you will never, ever be delta and ride on little bird skids

>>32267648
look at those veins! he would lose blood exponentially faster if any of his limbs are shot. bigger target too.

>>32266045
So a higher resting heart-rate to maintain a relatively larger network of blood vessels at the "same" preassure?
Which as I said, would lead to a faster bleedout if a major blood vessel is hit.

Muscle has a lot of uses, but once you are hit, it's not going to help you much more than just being in good all-round health.

>>32266589
Uhh they did have meth

Read a book you fucking newfag

I think the general factor of building a strong body requiring the will to suffer pain during work-outs and post-workouts helps the individual cope with the pain from enduring a survivable gunshot.

Calibers also greatly depend on how well they will penetrate muscle. A .22 LR will penetrate shallow into a muscular individual, and the muscles will absorb the impact of the round. It will hurt like hell, however. A .50 BMG round to your chest would probably cause so much internal trauma that you would die of shock before passing from bloodloss.

>>32264245
Enough that it hampers every other activity.

>>32264470
It was an issue in Mogadishu because the SAW gunners were issued saboted AP ammo specifically to be able to shoot through the brick/concrete walls of the objective building if needed, and to better disable the vehicles they were supposed to have.

AP ammunition is absolutely dildos for killing unarmored people, it doesn't have any real wounding characteristics--no tumbling, no fragmenting, no expanding.

>>32264513
The difference is negligible. Get hit in a major artery, you die without immediate medical care. Get hit in just muscle/fat, you die from sepsis or stupidity days/weeks later (or you eventually get medical care and live) and not the damage from the bullet. Even extremely grievous wounds to muscle will naturally clot and stop bleeding within an hour provided there's no debris in the wound to keep re-opening it and no major arteries were damaged.

>>32270414
>die of shock before passing from bloodloss.
REEE stop spreading this "die of shock" meme.

Shock is a medical state where your organs aren't getting enough blood, primarily due to blood loss. If you mean CNS trauma, say CNS trauma.

Really triggers my medical autism.

>>32266029
>>32266061

Maybe medieval armor, but most certainly not modern plate carriers.Unless it's military, which in that case yes, since carrying a 25lb+ worth of armor sucks balls if you're weak.

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>>32265278
Cool.
So cardio, a bit of fat, a bit of muscle.
All good.

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>>32265261

>>32264221
That frog man was Scott Helvenston. RIP brother.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8588521

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I'm half polynesian and trying to get leaner. Aside from the cardio/weight lifting and macro calculations for daily eating i'm doing what else can I do to lean out. Do genetics play a large role? am I just fucked?

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It may stop a pitiful bullet, but all the muscle in the world will never save your life should you anger me and meet me on the battlefield. My katana can slice through pure steel, and your pitiful body is a helluva lot weaker than that.

Doc here.

No. And holy shit there's lots of bullshit here. Starting from the bottom.

>>32270544
This is sort of true. Shock is technically inadequate substrate delivery to organs. This includes more than blood. But blood loss is a type of shock that falls under the broader category "Hypovolemia".

>>32270514
Spot on.

>>32265613
Physically fit people, which often includes people who exercise routinely enough to build a good deal of muscle mass have a very powerful stroke volume. They get more cardiac output per beat compared to a fatass who is relatively deconditioned. So yes, their heart rate is actually often lower than even skinny, otherwise deconditioned nerds (for instance)

>>32265520
Testosterone has nothing to do with trauma. You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>32265278
It's mostly just energy, ballistics, and (most importantly) whats hit.

Anyone have any general med/trauma questions?

/r/ing instructor patstone

Fat worked for gladiators, it can work for you too. Become the Blob and nothing can stop you. Except aliens and robots.

>>32264221
>You will never lick their abdomens, rub their thick cocks and swallow their cum in a non-homosexual way
Life ain't fair boyos

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>>32272207
Good on you dood. Keep it up.

>>32273899
Join the Seals and you'll even get training in it.

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>>32273952
burn

>>32268966

You really think being in shape means a higher HR?

Kys my man, srs.

>>32264221
i watched a video earlier where a doctor did a huge presentation on gunshot wounds and affects calibers have.

he said your skin has the same streangth as 4 inches of muscle.

so basically unless your a THICK AS FUCK dude, maybe just grow thicker skin?

>>32265601
when you're one of the top operators in the world, females are below you. Most men are below you. You follow the example of the Greeks and take your equals.

>>32264270
>coated in smooth muscle in most areas
Wrong. Get educated dumb shit.

>>32274413
OP here, that video with the german surgeon, inspired me to start this thread.

>>32265365
Your DNA doesn't prevent you from reading enough and putting on muscle. Your lazy fucking excuse seeking attitude does though.

>>32268054
Idiot.

>>32264230
>All these shit answers.
>Nobody elaborated on the short answer.
Having more muscle means being more fit, if you're more fit you can get out of the situation you got shot in a lot quicker.

>>32274241
Literally read a book, being built or excessively muscular as in OPs pics will invariably give you a higher heart rate.
If it doesn't it means your heart is pumping more blood per beat, as per >>32273516 which is a serious problem, as it is believed to lead to hypertrophic heart if not closely monitored, as it is impossible for a heart to pump higher volumes of blood without muscle growth, and it doesn't take a PHD to see diminishing gains in that equation.

Also, this thread is based on being muscled, which is why I have written my responces as such.
To simply attack me on the ground that being fit is good, is a waste, I wholeheartedly agree with you that being fit and healthy will provide the best protection against gunshots.
Packing a bunch of extra kilograms that require bloodflow is likely not a good idea, unless they are required.

This is also purely from being shot, the implications of packing a large amount more mass in certain roles are even more detrimental to a war effort.

>>32274616
Not the anon you are replying to, but I was medically disqualified after being diagnosed with gout. I was fit and 25 years old; it was passed on to me through my dad.

I wanted so much to be a badass seabee too, was pretty much begging them to waive it and take me in; told them if I started getting a gout attack innadesert that I'd be fine if they just took my gear and left me to die. Went through a few years of depression over it.

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>>32274950

>>32275590
There's always vidya.

>>32274616

I keep doing sports and krav maga etc...

I just dont think Im going to make it with weak wrists and fingers, slight barrel chest, a nose that works at 4/10 capacity and high instep.

Idunno.

I wouldnt want to be doing anything else in the army

>>32274518

This is actually the kind of thing I've seen.

A very nasty form of homosexuality that isnt always even related to the sexual organs.

>>32267648

Dude they were eating food out of each other's assholes.

I dont think I'm exaggerating

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more thick you are the more chance you get for an AK round to fully destroy you.
you can get away easier if it over penetrates.

>>32276467
anyhow you can clearly see that having 10cm (that's really insane hulk tier tho) muscle on top of your organs or 2cm makes absolutely no fucking difference at all at best and really makes it all worse at worst as far as wounding go. surgically inserting artificial spider silk armor into your epidermis would make a hell of a lot more sense than building muscle to stop bullets.

>>32276536

But the shock of the bullet stopping on your spider silk would cause extreme pain and damage to your organs, not to mention the spyder silk would penetrate your organs, even if it doesnt break.

The more stuff if has to pierce until it reaches the really really important stuff the less power it has when hitting the really important stuff.

>>32276641
well i never said it's perfect i just said it makes more sense. it would gradually slow the bullet down more aggressively as it pulls in tissues the silk is attached to kinda like a chainmail against blunt trauma. it can stop fracturing within is a huge issue. sure you still not gonna like it when the bullet pokes your liver you will crap yourself and pass out as it ruptures.

>>32276656
power is irrelevant look at the fucking wound tunnels. it hardly matters to you how much power something still has when it puts a fist sized hole into you.