Does anyone else feel bad that the Raptor is growing old before

>>32213816
Still the best at A2A and will be for at least 20 years unless the F-35 gets game-changing tech or we have another fighter being developed in secret. The PAK-FA and J-20 are vaporware.

6th gen is going to be an optionally manned drone swarm mothership

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>>32213851

Ghost Rider soon, comrade!

>>32213906
Christ that's spooky

I want this to happen to all the F4s though. even though that would be a giant waste of money

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>>32213851
>>32213906
>>32213922

>2027, Sino-American War
>Chinese J-20 and J-31 jets are blown out of the sky left and right by the latest American fighters
>Rumors fly through the Chinese Air Force, telling of American pilots who can pull 10g turns easily, who have reaction times faster than lighting, and who can fly mission after mission without tiring, only stopping to rearm and refuel
>A captured Chinese pilot asks his captors to allow him to meet the American pilots who have so outclassed his own nation's pilots
>The Americans he ask just laugh and take the Chinese pilot to the runway of the base and point to a squad of fighters about to take off
>To the Chinese pilot's confusion, there's no one in the cockpits of any, but then they shockingly begin to take off
>The Americans point out the fighters as they go and say, "That one's Rickenbacker, and there goes Boyington, and that's Bong besides him, and that one pulling up now is Yeager..."
>The Chinese pilot is eventually returned to China in a POW exchange. Within a week, China is full of stories of the "Ghost Pilots" of America, the spirits of American Aces of old, returned to earthly realm to fight for their nation once more

PsyOps could have a field day.

[spoiler]Yes, yes, I'm ignoring that fact that dedicated Drone-Fighters wouldn't be built with glass cockpits, but the story doesn't work otherwise[/spoiler]

>>32214202
>[spoiler]..[/spoiler]
It's ok, I liked your story, anon.

Also it's worth pointing out that at the moment it does look like the F/A-XX program is aiming to develop a manned fighter. Afterwards the U.S says they plan to move to unmanned fighter aircraft until such time that extremely high speed or high atmosphere jets are developed and they can't be remotely controlled (and autonomous stealth fast fighter planes are a no no)

>tfw won't be alive too see drone motherships

>>32213816
It's almost like it was a mistake to spend a fortune on a brand new air to air fighter jet when we haven't had an equally matched air to air conflict in 50 years.
The f35 a shit too.
For the next 50 years these $200 million planes are going to drop $3100 bombs on sand niggers whose whole lifelong net worth amounts to less than 35 cents.

>>32213816
>She's starting to be matched and will soon be outclassed and she's never done anything Fighter-worthy yet...
By another US fighter at best. Nothing China and Russia are building come close.

>>32214202
Anon, are you aware the chinese not only do own hundreds of dronised old fighters (J7s, Q5s...) but also are very willing to use them as decoys in mass waves of networked drones able to distract ennemy fighters/radars or even possibly use them directly as flying bombs sending them on several objectives ?
I'm not chinese nor a china shill, but they are working on this right now.
They could have 4000 dronised fighters to just send away on suicide missions if they completed the networking. Years ago some officiers from the PLAF were openly talking about using this strategy against India in a conventional air war above the border.

>>32213816

she won't be matched/outclassed for a while yet. you can't make up for nearly 40 years of stealth experience in one generation. if Obongo didn't kill the production line and actually gave us the 400-some we were planning for we'd be the undisputed king kong of the A2A world. as it is, we're the champ but we don't have as much roadwork as we should because we're slacking due to our dominance. we still have the best one-two in the world though.

>>32215139
>I'm not chinese nor a china shill
Then you're just dumb and believe every extravagant claim they make?

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>>32215139
>CUDA missiles
>12 per F-35 internal
>144 in B-1B arsenal planes

>China tries Drone mass wave with 3rd/4th-gen retrofits
>They get jammed to shit
>Then slammed with a Missile Massacre

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>>32213851
Nice.

>>32214947
>It's almost like it was a mistake to spend a fortune on a brand new air to air fighter jet when we haven't had an equally matched air to air conflict in 50 years.
>Implying it isn't doctrine to never let it be a fair fuck.

>>32214202

>2016, advanced drone aircraft obviously the next big thing on the horizon
>2027, Chinese somehow dumbfounded by drones
>Pick one

>>32214947

it's not like we're facing near-peer threats in Syria right now with Russian IADs and Su-35s

>>32214947

>Military industrial complex

We need to keep funding weapons systems so the companies that make them can stay in business so that when we actually need them to crank out something to fight a real war they will he there and ready.

See: Ship yards in Australia or French domestic weapons production.

>>32213922
The F-4s are largely depleted, now retired and no longer cost-effective, hence why QF-16s are replacing QF-4s.

>>32215402
Seems to come down to prod numbers. QF-35 stealth target drones soon!

>>32215219
Chinese people don't understand how souls work
Whites outclass Chinese in the 'having souls' category

>>32215727
>QF-35 stealth target drones soon!
You mean around 2070.

>>32214947
Let's just stop all funding of any Navy ship besides aircraft carriers and a couple missile cruisers because we haven't used them since WW2. Or, even better, let's stop updating the M1 Abrams since we haven't had a big tank battle since 1991.
Both of those, ridiculous as they are, don't even come close to what you're saying the US should do because the Generation gap between non-stealth and stealth fighters is so big it might even outclass the jump to jets.

>>32215986
It's at least as big as the 3rd to 4th Gen transition. Israel's Air Force put rookies in their brand new F-15s against veterans in Mirage IIIs and even with tons of mistakes the rookies creamed the vets. And F-22 versus F-15 exercises were similarly lopsided.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ7MwfcjCa0

>>32213847
>The PAK-FA is vaporware
FTFY, the J-20 is in LRIP.

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>>32216162
comrade...

>>32216162
The j-20 is less than half the plane the meme said it was going to be.

The current chinese damage control is essentually "i...its a beta! J-20(X) will be the REAL version!!!"

>>32216202
>The j-20 is less than half the plane
>.its a beta! J-20

I'd love if you could quantify any of your post with evidence.

The J-20 was in a 'beta' in 2011. The final production version is in LRIP as of late 2015.

>>32214202
I'm curious how long it'll be before drones are countered

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>>32216037
>tfw you'll never hear about an F-22 that downed 2 squadrons of enemy fighter by using all of its missiles

>>32215203
Rocket Barrage Ready.

>>32216317
countered? Uhh. By other drones clearly. Warfare will be mostly automated by the time you die friend

>>32216460
Automated warfare is meaningless, might as well just turn it into a literal sport at that point.

>>32216293
The final production version lacks HMD

only has 4 internal hardpoints

the sinoEODAS is actually IR (based on manufacturer pics)

and the DAS is suspect due to no HMD (thus no point), and might just be a IR MAW like the F-22

it uses an intirm engine that based on the recent show is anemic as fuck.

J-20 is the no mans sky of aircraft. Nothing was known about it, memes flew rampent, and the final product is garbage.

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>>32216317

>>32216478
Well yeah, but the winner will still get the territory or resources. Who wants to get killed by drones in the future? We already put a higher premium on human life in war than we used to. Imagine if DD casualties happened in modern day? A shit fit will ensue. Humans willingness to fight (that is actually stick their necks out) will go down just as their effectiveness versus their automated counterparts will. Whoever has the most/best bots gonna win.

>>32216460
Drones, like every other weapons system, has flaws that can be taken advantage of

>>32215275
This.
>>32215986
K we'll send a CBG or a missile cruiser to kill some pirates off the horn of africa.
And the Marines can just be launched off of nuclear subs in ODST pods.
>>32216009
Pigs are really smart and social and can be great companion animals for humans. I'm sure there are lots of people that butcher hogs in inhumane ways in the US. I recently had a country white kid tell me he shoots birds and other animals for fun with no intention of eating them.

There are millions of feral dogs in China.

Also, though I don't like to cast aspersions on people's deelpy-held religious beliefs, I challenge you to show me any evidence of a soul in anyone.

>>32213847
there is always another fighter being developed. These things take so long to develop properly, it'd be criminal not to.

>>32216528
Drone Swarm incoming. EMP ACTIVATED.

>>32216585
chinky pls

>>32216009
you ever seen a slaughterhouse?
meat doesn't come from the supermarket. An abattoir is a nasty place.

>>32216585
are you fucking retarded? I never proposed getting rid of jobs, but rather improving on what we currently have. If all you took from what I wrote was that I was in favor of preparing only for future war, you might have problems with reading comprehension.

>>32216585
>mad chink detected
Go bash some dog you you small penised slope.

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>>32216366
it hurts

>>32216366
> the bay doors are not synced
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>32216614
"Let's just stop all funding of any Navy ship besides aircraft carriers and a couple missile cruisers because we haven't used them since WW2. Or, even better, let's stop updating the M1 Abrams since we haven't had a big tank battle since 1991"

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought "stop funding any Navy ship besides aircraft carriers and a couple missile cruisers" meant we don't fund anything except carriers and missile cruisers.

>>32216585
>pigs =dogs

Ahh, this is the new damage control the .50c offices decided on.

>>32216591
Electronic warfare will be an ever increasingly important part.
>>32216580
The benefits greatly outweigh the cost. Try to imagine terminator level shit that hasn't even been seriously put on the drawing board yet. People of 100 years ago could never image the weapons we have today, and technology grows exponentially, not linearly.

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>>32216659

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>>32216603
>>32216661
Hey, you caught me. I only go around claiming we Chinese might have souls and are real human beings because the government will kill my family if I don't.

>>32216661
do you not have an understanding of sarcasm? I realize it may be difficult to understand via text, but I thought I was quite clear.

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>>32216495
Again, please show evidence of these 'rampant memes'. All I'm seeing is speculation, the Chinese are tight lipped with their exact specs

>4 internal hardpoints
*6 internal adapters plus at least 4 external.

>>32216665
Just saying maybe if it seems wrong to kill and eat one reasonably intelligent social animal but okay to do it to another reasonably intelligent social animal, maybe there's something of a double standard there.

>>32216710
I don't think you get to claim this particular post for pay, Chinko

>>32216711
Sorry anon. People say some pretty outrageous things on here, so sarcasm can be hard to detect without the relevant pepe.

>>32216605
Those are dogs they're beating and slaughtering dick nugget

>>32216659
It's a homage to the ww2 planes having one gear retract/extend faster than the other.

>>32216757
it's alright. I should save the snark for face to face.

>>32216760
OK? Still just animals.

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>>32216317
>>32216460

Minovsky particles make drones useless.

>>32216737
Everything i posted, sans the eodas (which is basically 1+1=2) is not speculation.

>6 internal adaptors

4 internal central bay, two self defense cheek bays. I didnt count the heaters because they are not useful save for a last ditch measure.

Meanwhile the F-22 has 6 internal hardpoints plus 2 side bays. The F-22 is smaller, and 20 years old.

>>32216667
Wars will still be fought by men, not weapons and knowledge of one's own force and the enemy's will remain the most decisive factor

>>32216815
Sure if you call that war. Button pressing seems a far cry from thrusting your sword through your enemy's warm torso

>>32214202
stole this greentext right out of an old sci-fi book

>>32216790

Animals we have a millenia-old social contract with. They are not for eating.

>>32217031
Only white people think this way
But thats ok whites will be extinct soon

>>32217031
>>32216790
Not to mention animals that EVOLVED with us. Dogs would not even exist if humans did not. We bred it to be a companion not a snack you fucking savage.

>>32216806
Newtype autism make drones useless (except funnels).

>>32216806

Truth. When is Trump going to start the Titans so I can have a Byarlant and execute dissidents?

>>32216809
>I didnt count the heaters
No, I'd imagine you didn't count them because it makes the J-20 look worse versus comparable aircraft. In a WVR engagement an F-35 would have to carry its AIM-9Xs in its main bay while a J-20 would have that space free for other ordnance. And to say short range AAMs like the AIM-9X are 'not useful' except for self defense is ludicrous.

>>32217039

Correction, liberal whites will be extinct soon and this "have babies for profit" deal they have with you will be over and done with. You'll learn your place or go back to the hellholes you came from.

>also implying blacks and hispanics eat dog

Coincidentally every culture that hates dogs includes penis in their cooking, I wonder why?

>>32217045

This, and there's also the fact that pigs, while smart and social, are also by nature selfish assholes. Octopi are smart as fuck too, with no concept of altruism.

>>32216851
My point is given proper knowledge of the device attached to the button, one may develop another device, system, tactic, etc. do defeat the aforementioned, because everything has its own flaws and weaknesses. Moreover, all weapons are tools, meaning they are can only do what they are told within the parameters in which they are built. Soldiers do not have this limitation. As a result, inherent human advantage of consciousness will stand unless there is some massive fundamental change in how people have always understand the world.

I need to take another composition class

>>32217052

Funnels are literally controlled by a newtype with a psychoframe enhancing the pilot's autism, aren't they? At any rate, minovsky particles are a lot more common than newtypes.

>>32217104
You've been watching too many animes.
It doesn't take a super AI to decide to bomb a tank it sees. This stuff is real and it works and it will only get better.

>>32217069
>compareing the high J-20 to the low F-35

Wew laddy. You just compared an mig-35 to an Su-35 and are wondering why one has more hardpoints.

>And to say short range AAMs like the AIM-9X are 'not useful' except for self defense is ludicrous.

Their very purpose is ludicrous? Having a steath fighter WVR puts you on an equal playing field with your opponent. You dont do it, and if it happens somewhere somebody fucked up.

Oh, and block 4.4 the F-35 is getting 6 internal hardpoints.

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>>32217086
>Coincidentally every culture that hates dogs includes penis in their cooking, I wonder why?

"Asia" and Asians permanently btfo

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>>32217114
Yup

>>32214947
Yeah, it's also dumb how we spend money and time training our troops to be the best they can when we have only been fighting a bunch of ill equipped and trained insurgents.

What we really should do is just give our troops a rifle send them to war with nothing else but some pointers and the shirts on their backs.

And forget about any kind of special operations, you think the Taliban has elite troops with high tech gear and years of the best training? Didn't think so.

This is how stupid you sound.

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>>32217134
>You've been watching too many animes
What can I say, 80s ovas are funto watch
>This stuff is real and it works and it will only get better.
But it will always have limitations that can be capitalized on be a foe. I think the most important and most forgotten is the fundamental difference between the biotic and abiotic

>>32217242
Yeah. Inorganic things change and adapt a lot faster than biology ever could. You remind me of a discussion i had with a guy who thought a truck driver would be better than an auto at driving on ice. The computer would be taking tite slippage measurements on the order of 1000 per second and make subtle adjustments to speed where the truck driver would "feel it" and take the standard human reaction time to do something. It's literally no contest.

>>32217259
*tire slippage

>>32217259
I'm not 100% sure how to articulate this, but tools will always be tools, be they a stone knife or an autonomous attack UAV

>>32217425
Call it what you will. A brain is just a tool for thinking and control

>>32217438
I maintain life's self awareness makes it unique and gives it certain trade offs compared to nonliving things. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree

>>32213816
niqqa I was flying those in the late 90s to 2005.

F22 a shit.

The future is unmanned. Why lug around all the shit to keep a human alive when they are the limit of your performance envelope?

>>32213906
pretty much this. Its why the USAF is not fretting the pilot gap too hard.

Was at base X during 2011-201X, fighters were instrumented up to hell, with every maneuver and action being captured. Constant BFM under the guise of training, not hard to connect the dots yo.

They were training the next generation of pilots. pro-tip: they are likely digital.

>>32217491
Because the human as a limiter gets replaced by communication speed and signal/noise.
Alternatively, there are zero people in the Air Force comfortable with allowing machines to make the decision to kill people.

>>32216605
Most non-shit slaughterhouses don't work like that. They kill the animals fast and cleanly with as little pain as possible.

Even Muslim law requires a fast, humane kill.

>>32217491
>>32217595
>Reminder that human G-limits are the least important element
High-G maneuvers seriously stress airframes, so they need more reinforcement, which adds weight, and thus even bigger engines...

Which is why only missiles are built for over 9G.

>>32216670
~Kyaaaah!
Don't look at me when i pee, sempai.

>>32217555

You got an uncle that works at Nintendo too?

>>32217476
>I maintain life's self awareness makes it unique and gives it certain trade offs compared to nonliving things.
This is basically magical "but I have a soul" thinking.

>>32218506

Wait, are you suggesting that airframes would break before humans?

>>32222829
he's suggesting that drones aren't going to be able to pull of macross plus style high g manuevers

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>>32215201
You think that is missir spam round eye?
I raugh at you puny missir!

>>32222829
Yes. Yes I am.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp
>46.2G sustained, "totally could have gone higher if they let me."

>>32222852

Of course not, but to say that a drone-fighter couldn't pull higher g's for longer periods of time (given the same air frame between the two) is asinine.

>>32223040

>sustained

It was not, don't be dishonest.

You'll also noticed that Stapp didn't CONTROL his sleds, he just had to sit and survive.

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>>32216495
>Muh engines

No one actually knows what engines it has, the air show revealed that it's quite a bit more powerful than the Russian engines they've been buying for a while and it seems to have thrust vectoring.

There's definitely something going on.

>>32223116
It's still important to remember that airframes take a shit-ton of stress at high G and can't flex back or heal like the body does. An F-16 would disintegrate if the pilot tried to take it to 12 or 13G.

>>32223218

Okay? So the human pilot who just pulled 12g's would have to eject anyway because he just broke his plane, making it useless.

Meanwhile, a drone can pull 5 to 8g's until it runs out of fuel, while the human pilot has to break off after a minute (tops) to fucking breath.

>>32223206
That's just loose.. China quality control at its finest.

>>32215139

>robot kamikaze pilots

F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyf059psVew

>>32223245
If you're needing to pull those kind of maneuvers in the modern era, you're already fucked.

>>32223516
>robot kamikaze pilots
What are Missiles Alex?

>>32216585
There was a teenager in Texas who knowingly shot and killed two whooping cranes. Fucking assholery knows no borders

>>32215139
Jam the fucking comms and watch as their drone air force crashes into itself out of the skies like the ending of the latest Star Trek movie.

>>32216202
Yeah, and it probably also has an RCS 20 times bigger than that of an F-35.

>>32224118
Yeah, but it isn't the norm.

>>32217069
>in a WVR engagement
So basically everything a "stealth" fighter is explicitly designed to avoid? Mmkay.

Suppose now you're gonna say that the J-20, a "stealth" fighter, is designed explicitly for WVR fighting (which I suppose is kinda true considering the chinks don't have a decent BVR missile yet).

>>32223206
>the air show revealed that it's quite a bit more powerful than the Russian engines they've been buying

Did you see the same show? Fucking looked sad.

>>32215201
Antiaircraft harpoon swarm when?

>>32224070
What are you talking about you fucking autist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uh4yMAx2UA

>>32216505
yeah, because a man portable spot jammer that works on radio frequencies to counter RC airplanes whose transmitters and receivers are the size of a quarter and has a range of like a mile will surely be able to counter a KU band satellite uplink unmanned aircraft flying at 20,000ft using a 30" satellite dish for its command and return links.

>inb4 hurr durr it'll get better

Military jammers are already a thing.

>>32224830
>4th Gen
>Implying the same rules apply to 5th

>>32225873

>implying rules going back to air combat in WWI don't still apply today

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>>32226041

>>32226081

WWI rule still applies to that vid

>Flying in a gentle curve with no evasive maneuvers while death is bearing down on you is asking to get shot down.

>>32226369
It's a lot harder when the plane you're trying to circle against can fire with you 90 degrees to the side.

Also:
>vast majority of A2A kills now by all-aspect BVR
>In 80% of BVR shoot-downs the target didn't know they were fired upon until the missile had them in NEZ

>>32226579


You got a source for any of that or are you just typing what you believe to be true and pulling that 80% number out of your ass?

>>32216528
This description is reminiscent of the scene where you can convince one of your followers in Kotor II to become a Jedi.

>Is that you Atton Rand?

It's a good thing it's production was stopped. It never was going to do anything, anyway.

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>>32227228

desu 50 is all we really need

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>>32226620

>>32227445
where's the website you got that from

>>32227445

A graph is not a source, it's a visual representation of other sources.

It only begs the question of who compiled the data and where is it from?

Also, there's nothing in there that gives a % of how many of the down air crews didn't realize they were being tracked by a missile.

>>32217086
>Coincidentally every culture that hates dogs includes penis in their cooking, I wonder why?

Because they are small dicked freaks.

>>32217045
>We bred it to be a companion not a snack you fucking savage.

Not a Chink, but the "muh companion" meme is a mostly modern one, with the exception of little shits bred specifically for the elites. Dogs have historically been primarily working animals.

There's a reason why phrases such as "die like a dog" exist.

>>32227445
What is "other"?

>>32227855
Things like tricking an enemy fighter into a terrain intersection. Like an EF-111 did in Desert Storm.

>>32227855

>Manuever kill

If you pull a maneuver and the enemy crashes while attempting to match your maneuver, it counts as your kill.

>Ramming

As long as the enemy plane doesn't make it back to its base, it counts as your kill

>>32227670
I mean I agree with you but you're splitting hairs. By "companion" I meant that early dogs were used for hunting, guarding, and scavenging up the scraps. They served a role in society and many still do

>>32227881
There was also that time when a Strike Eagle killed a Hind using a 2000lbs laser-guided bomb.

>>32227933

Fucking sweet and fucking how?

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>>32214202
sounds like a b rated movie, we could make millions!

>>32213816
Prey that Z.O.E AI never go online

>>32216585
There are a few billion feral humans in china, one might say.

It would be one thing id dog meat was what they sold it as, but they slather it in all manner of sauces and spices to disguise the taste and sell it for huge profit.

I mean, they even distil sewer water for the oil and use it to fry with

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>>32227955

>>32227945
http://www.f-15e.info/joomla/stories/182-tim-bennetts-war

>>32227881
Do you have to make it back too for it to count?

>>32228137

Nope, though it certainly helps your chances of getting credit if your wingman who witnesses the ramming makes it back to base.

First A2A kill ever was a ramming (by the Russian pilot, Pyotr Nesterov on 8 September 1914, against an Austrian plane. That incident was fatal to both parties.)

First conventional A2A kill wouldn't be until Oct 1914

>>32224279
More than that IIRC

>>32224220
Yes just play Beastie Boys real loud and every drone will instantly explode when they hear it.

>>32227992

Ace Combat?

>>32227472
>>32227493
http://csbaonline.org/uploads/documents/Air-to-Air-Report-.pdf
Also covers the 80% figure

>>32228137

If a pilot makes a kill, but no one makes it back to base to report it, is it still a kill?

>>32224830

How come Americans keep flying into missile defenses areas?

Other nations don't seem to have this problem.

>>32227855
Air to Air bomb (A-10),

>>32217031
>furry detected

>>32232053
>PETA detected

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>>32227992

>>32216772
wtf. It's so the aircraft can fire from one bay while maintaining its stealth on the other side.