Is it a bad idea to clone the M16a4 as your first AR15? I read

Conscripted retards in Vietnam could figure out how to use a full size M16. You can too.

Nah man. Im gonna buy a nationalmatch ar for my first one. I kind of want the a4 from fn but i dont think you can compete with it.

>>32195499
It's not that I can't figure out how to use it. If I'm going to be using this AR for HD, it would be a lot easier to have a shorter 16" barrel with a collapsible stock. I want an a4 clone for the aesthetics, and it's also been said that the rifle length gas system is the most reliable, and a 20" barrel gives the best velocity.

>>32195604
5.56 is neutered out of a 16" barrel and you can put a carbine stock one 20" barrel
A 1/8 twist rate on a 20" barrel with a carbine stock gives you best use of any loading of 5.56

>>32195838
Literally shut the fuck up you fucking moron.

At home defense ranges, M193 and M855 both fragment just fine.

Protip, 69-77 grain OTM does not fragment. The fragile OTM shatters, leaving an unbalanced base of the bullet to continue on and tumble. As such, 77gr OTM bullets perform equally well out of a 10.5" or 24" barrel.

Kill your self

>>32195857
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha thats a hilarious joke brother you wouldn't mind showing relevant data backing up these claims of ballistic performance from short barrels

>>32195857


t butthurt faggot who cant handle a real mans rifle

get a pistol for tight spaces faggot carbines are for mounted operations not room clearing you stupid cunt, that or you need a REAL sbr, not a cucked 16" federal dong piece of shit 'short barrel' come back with 11.5 maybe bitch boy

>>32195857
Anon dont listen to fuckface mcgee over here. An M16a4 is both aesthetic and an awesome gun. If you are looking for home defense and eant an ar to conserve ammo get an ar pistol or an sbr mk18 or colt xm177. Or consider a different gun for HD like shotgun or handgun.

>>32195889
There you go stupid nigger faggot

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/special-forces-to-civilians-black-hills-mk-262-mod-1-review/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFKI5LgaNg

Out of a 7.5" barrel

>>32195900
>223
>real mans rifle
???

File: 223 BEATCHOASS.jpg (56KB, 600x413px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 600x413px

>>32195944

Dubs do not excuse the stupid.

>>32195491
You could always go a weird route and clone the Canadian C7A2, Leafs may be fucking retarded but they did manage to make an interesting rifle.

>>32195923
Impressive example of overpenetration
I'm almost impressed by your ability to find a load of ammo that perfoms with mediocrity out of an sbr

>>32195976
C8 is better, don't need such a long barrel.

>>32195604
>and it's also been said that the rifle length gas system is the most reliable, and a 20" barrel gives the best velocity.

The gas system is perfectly fine on a midlength or carbine. Rifle length isn't signifigantly more reliable enough to warrant trading off 4 inches of length and the extra weight.
>but it loses ~50.53494 FPS per bullet
Literally will not tell the difference when you dump half a magazine into someone within 5 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFivB9JJYvk


As for muzzle velocity, it's splitting hairs. 5.56 out of a 16 inch barrel is still effective and the fps loss is marginal.
>>32195604
Get an M16A4 clone because you like the look and it's still useable for HD but don't lie to yourself saying you need a 20 inch rifle length gun or else you won't be able to defend yourself. A 20 inch AR is fine, it's simply just not as manueverable as a 16 inch carbine or midlength.

https://youtu.be/yU8ryJN9E5s?t=120

>>32196043
>FBI handgun testing preferences and measures are relevant to rifle cartridges

They aren't

>>32195491
do it for the aesthetics, i dont get faggots arguing about twist rate and fragmentation, as if shooting someone with a 5.56 wont fuck them up regardless of barrel length. If they argue against it they are free to shoot themselves and prove it. As for HD a pistol would probably be better even if you get a carbine. But get an a4 clone because i live in no funs EE and cant, do it for me anon.

>>32196347
>this post
>relevant

It isn't

>>32196330
When used to perform a role typically performed by handguns or sub guns yes
>a round doesn't have to compare with industry set standards to be effective and accepted
>a specific round is OK out of short barrels that makes every round out short barrels ok
No
20" barrels can do with pretty much any load of 5.56 that your fancy black hill mk262 can do out of a 7.5 barrel

>>32195976
This. Canadian Infantry here. C7A2 is good for room clearing, especially without body armour. C8 would probably be good too but it's not standard issue and I've never got to handle one with live rounds myself.

>>32196503
>when used in the role
>when used in the role with ammunition several magnitudes more powerful

So Mk262 and other equivalents like Hornady TAP and various .223 Loadings of heavy SMK or similar OTM bullets "do the same thing" out of a short barrel, tell me why again then, when all of those aforementioned types of ammunition are widely available I would choose something far less maneuverable, heavier, and in general more unwieldy to "do the same thing"

>>32196533
because you don't want to fuck yourself when you don't have any more special snowflake rounds

>>32195491
>I read that the full 20" rifle with stock is too long to be used indoors
If a 20" shotgun is perfectly suitable for home defense then a 20" AR is too. The thing driving shorter barrels on ARs is a combination of military infantry needing to get in and out of vehicles with the AR buffer tube precluding folding stocks. If it's not a truck gun, an 18-20" barrel is GOOD.

>>32196549
Yes, because having realized the benefits heavy .224 caliber bullets can provide, along with shorter weapons in general becoming more common, and many commercial barrel manufacturers providing numerous 1-7/1-8 options companies like Sierra and Hornady are going to cease production of their 69 grain and above bullets tomorrow.

In fact, I recommend that you use full metal jacketed pistol rounds for home defense, because you don't want to be fucked when you run out of special snowflake rounds.

Or perhaps you should use a wooden bat, because you don't want to be fucked when you run out of special snowflake cartridges containing chemical propellants and lead bullets. Those special snowflake extractor springs and recoil springs are going to wear out too-- doesn't make sense to trust them.

>>32196533
>velocity
>capabilities of the weapon
>cost per round
If we're only discussing HD distances than you have a point but we're discussing 20" AR 15's as baby's first rifle
And a 20" has the most potential for baby's first rifle as compared to an AR pistol with 7.5" barrel with a specific bullet weight

>>32195838
>16" neuters 5.56
>house distances
You dont know what the fuck you're talking about, do you?

>>32196793
Actually I do comrade
20" > 16" > 7.5"
By cutting the barrel length you're limiting what you can do with that rifle at any distance with any ammo to improve how it performs with a specific ammo for specific distances while discarding it's ability to perform outside of one specific role

>>32195491

A4 is the best mix between modern and classic.

You get a little more velocity with the 20" barrel but more importantly the gas system is more reliable. Also you can morter the rifle to clear jams with the fixed stock (you wouldn't want to do that with a collapsible one I can guarantee you)

I have an A3 clone and I fucking love it. It's an AR-15 so as long as it's not an HBAR or you don't attach everything under the fucking sun on your rifle then you'll still have a lightweight and maneuverable rifle.

Rifle profile is the most efficient but their less common now because SEAL roleplayers and mall ninjas.

I enjoy mine, if it's not a HD gun get whatever you want, who cares? Plus a4 clones look aesthetic as fuck in my opinion.

>>32196865

Your an idiot.
fucking commie

>>32197149
>Rifle profile is the most efficient but their less common now because SEAL roleplayers and mall ninjas.

This. This so very, very much. Larry Vickers and all the youtubers have started this unholy movement. With 5.56, your best bet is a 18"-20" barrel. The 5.56 relies on speed and those 50 fps will make a difference.
>muh weight

You don't need a fucking rail system. all you need is maybe a grip and a light. there are other ways for attaching those to your rifle.
>keymod!
keymod doesn't make a difference if you dress up your rifle with three lights, five lasers, thirteen grips and a red dot on every hour of the clock.
Besides, all that mallninja shit will fuck up the balance of the rifle.
>hurrdurr SEALs
SEALs used to use MP5s as their standard gun. They are not infallible.

Do this, and you will find that the rifle is surprisingly light and easy to point even with a 20" barrel. Look at the guns that win three gun competitions. They usually have carbon fiber handguards. Those weigh a lot less than railed kind.

>>32196865
Please, elaborate why the 20" is better than the 16" or the 14" AR within a home setting if you intend to go hunting rather than hunker down in a room?

>>32195604
16 is to long for HD.

if you want an HD AR get a 10.5 AR pistol with a shockwave "brace".

20" is aesthetic af and AR means Aesthetic Rifle.
You'll get the most out of whatever you feed it
20 is not too long for HD and not much longer than a handgun when pressed out to shoot.
HD is not the same as jumping in and out of MRAPs all day with full kit on
People have been defending their homes with guns much longer than 20" for hundreds of years now

Do it. Remember a good light is critical on an HD gun and a red dot highly recommended. Using irons in a dark house will take a lot of practice