So, why is the Marines so separate from the Navy, despite being

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>>32147795
>better trained

>>32147795
The key is in the name: Marine.
As in, they deploy from marine environments (such as the water) to do battle.
Small history lesson here-
a long time ago when the US was first dipping her toes into the pond of globalization the Marines were, for all intents and purposes, part of the Navy. The government found it was a lot cheaper and more logistically feasible to send troops that could live and land from the Navy's ships instead of having to assemble the Militia or raise a regular Army.
During WW2 the Marines got a shitload of extra bodies to help win the war, and in an effort to retain all that extra government neetbuxx (and to try and cover up the fact that the Marines statistically took an incredibly disproportionate amount of casualties to the actual strategic gain) they created the grand propaganda campaign still used today, to try and draw in public awareness. Nowadays, the Marines are literally too big to fail

>>32148018

But then why do we have Marines in recent times who are walking around in Afghanistan without ever starting from some sort of water to land invasion?

>>32147795
Because the Navy can't fight.
They can only provide fire support for actual fighters. They will cover the invasion, not be the invasion itself.
>>32147834
stop pretending to be me

>>32148087

But then why doesn't the Army invade.

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>>32147795

Shock infantry.

That's about it really in ~modern warfare.

>>32148071
Because the navy, in its never ending quest to dominate the DoD, throws their mini army around all the time. same deal with their airforce.

It's all about getting a larger chuck of the sweet taxpayer dollar, to blow on the next cruise missile.

>>32148071
Because America has waged several ill-advised wars of occupation and has a bunch of Marines with rifles and billions of dollars invested in the standing Marine Corps and to not employ them in those wars would be an unbelievable waste of money and real world experience. Letting the Marines stay home and hold their dicks because there's not a beach to attack while inflating the Army and using solely it to wage these wars would be just about the worst possible choice.

>>32147795
We are naval Infantry.

We are a big part of the Navy, but our own branch. Nigger it's easy to see if you have eyeballs.

>>32148126
I hope this is real

After the bureaucratic infighting that characterized inter-service relations during WW II, there was a strong desire among military professionals to unify the military commands. President Truman agreed, and in 1946 his administration proposed a bill to unify the separate service bureaucracies.

Having one budgetary authority for the Armed Forces, and one chain of command each for land forces, ships, and aircraft makes sense. But this would have placed the US Navy at a distinct disadvantage. The Navy had their own air wings aboard their carriers, and their own army, the USMC.

The Navy and USMC were determined to scuttle this legislation. Marine generals created a secret office code named the Chowder Society to lobby behind the scenes, (in opposition to their President and Commander in Chief), and thwart the unification bill before Congress. The Commandant of the Marine Corps even made an impassioned speech before Congress to plead for his separate service.

It worked. Congress rejected the Truman administration’s unification bill, and instead passed the National Security Act of 1947. This Act guaranteed separate services, with their own independent budgets, and was a victory for the Navy and USMC.

In addition, the Marines succeeded in having their separate force structure written into the language of the legislation. It is very unusual for Congress to dictate the actual composition of a military service. Yet the National Security Act mandates that the Marines Corps must maintain “not less than three combat divisions and three aircraft wings and such land combat, aviation, and other services as necessary to support them“.

President Truman was furious, and military professionals were appalled. General Eisenhower characterized the Marines as “being so unsure of their value to their country that they insisted on writing into the law a complete set of rules and specifications for their future operations and duties. Such freezing of detail…is silly, even vicious.”

>>32147795
My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment.
Marines ain't separate from the Navy.

>>32148894
I never considered that even half an insult as a Marine. It's just true. Thanks for the ride.

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They've both proven themselves countless times in combat, so who cares?

>>32148955
they've proven themselves to be massive fuckups

>>32148997
We're talking about Marines, not Soldiers.

>>32148955
The way I see it the founding fathers wanted a small army backed by a solid reserve of militia, and an effective Navy.

In a perfect world we'd close our foreign bases and distribute Army and Airforce material and personnel into the Navy/Marines and into the state militias.

Alas we don't so we have a massive military that doesn't know where to go and occasionally steps on its own toes

>>32148955
They struck out in both world wars in terms of being useful to the overall war effort

They struck out in Korea on the basis of being a 25,000 strong force on the west side of the chosin reservoir yet getting handled in the same manner as their US Army rivals of 2,500 strong proceeding along the eastern side of the reservoir.

The Army soldiers fought a running battle for three days against a Chinese force eight times their size, in temperatures as low as minus 35 degrees. Despite the death of two commanding officers, the task force lumbered south with over 600 dead and wounded soldiers loaded into trucks, fought through repeated ambushes, and was even mistakenly bombed by US Marine aircraft. Finally, just four miles from safety, the convoy was cut off by the Chinese and annihilated.

385 men made it to the safety of American lines by crossing the frozen Chosin Reservoir.

The First Marine Division, with the help of allied air power, managed to fight their way out of the Chinese encirclement. Marines claimed that the Army had disgraced itself, and passed on stories of US soldiers throwing down their weapons and feigning injuries. A Marine Chaplain even made statements to the press and wrote an article accusing army soldiers of cowardice.

There were so few officers and men left from the Army task force that the Marine’s claims were accepted as fact. But newly released Chinese documents prove otherwise. The Army task force fought bravely against overwhelming odds before being destroyed, and their stubborn defense bought time for the Marines to escape the encirclement.

Nevertheless, Marines to this day hold up the fight at the Chosin reservoir as proof of their superiority over the Army.

Shall I continue with their blunders going through vietnam and later conflicts?

>>32149103
In Vietnam, a Marine regiment at Khe Sanh refused to come to the aid of a Special Forces outpost only four miles from their perimeter. On Febuary 7th, 1968, the camp at Lang Vei was overran by heavily armed North Vietnamese troops during an all-night battle. The Marines had earlier agreed to reinforce the camp in the event of an attack, but two requests for assistance were denied.

General Westmoreland himself had to order the Marines to provide helicopters for Special forces personnel, so they could be airlifted into the besieged outpost. By this time the post had been overrun, at a cost of 208 soldiers killed and another 80 wounded. Ironically, two months later this same Marine regiment would be besieged at Khe Sanh, and they would be relieved by Army troops of the First Cavalry Division.

Marines currently stand as a middle ground between the navy, army, and airforce. The Air Force only a bit.

Marines were made to literally protect the navy on their own ships. Now? They are kinda just a different version of the army, with a different mindset. But if the US finds itself at war with another nation, and water is involved, I doubt marines won't be there.

>>32149103
>He believes chinks

Go on, but with citations.

Start with Khe Sanh, then end with Helmand Province. Battle of Fallujah too. Explain why they get the harder AOs.

>>32148126
holy shit man

>>32147795

The marines exist today solely out of tradition. It's unnecessary as the US Army has been training units on amphibious landings. If it was any other government organization it would have been eliminated a long time ago.

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>>32149160
During Operation Desert Storm 90,000 Marines attacked Iraqi forces alongside over 500,000 US Army and coalition troops. Yet the Marines garnered 75 percent of the newsprint and TV coverage. This was not an accident.

The Commanding General of the Marines in Iraq, Gen. Walt Boomer, was the former Director of Public Affairs for the Corps. He issued the following order to Marine units in the theater:

“CMC [Commandant of the Marine Corps, then General A. M. Gray] desires maximum media coverage of USMC … The news media are the tools through which we can tell Americans about the dedication, motivation, and sacrifices of their Marines. Commanders should include public affairs requirements in their operational planning to ensure that the accomplishments of our Marines are reported to the public.“

During the war Marine officers used military communications systems to transmit stories for reporters in the field, and even assigned personnel to carry press dispatches to rear areas. The Marine Commander also had his own entourage of reporters complete with satellite uplinks, and used them to good effect. He received far more air time than his Army counterparts.

The US Army performed a “Hail Mary” operation that trapped Iraq’s Republican Guard divisions and fought numerous running battles in the Iraqi desert. But no one saw them. Instead the press focused on Lt. Gen. Walter Boomer parading triumphantly through the streets of Kuwait City.

>>32149129
Marines were being attacked at the same time. It was a combined assault because they were so close.

>>32149195
When George Bush the Second launched his misguided invasion of Iraq, the Marines were once again included, and this time the goal was Baghdad. The invasion, which began on March 20th, 2003, called for a two pronged assault on Baghdad. The Army’s 5th Corps would advance from the desert west of the Euphrates river, while the First Marine division was ordered to cross the Euphrates and make a parallel advance through central Iraq.

The invasion did not go well for the Marines. In several cities, including Umm al Qasr and Nasiriya, their units suffered heavy casualties fighting remnants of the Iraqi Army and fedayeen guerrillas. Since the Marines had fewer armored vehicles, and they were exposed to a more tenacious enemy, their progress was slower than the Army’s.

Major General Mattis, the commanding general of the Marines in Iraq, was not pleased. He repeatedly pressured his regiments to make greater speed, and this pressure grew more intense as the Marines lagged further behind Army units. On the morning of April 3rd, the First Marine Regiment, commanded by Colonel Dowdy, was ordered to drive to the town of al-Kut.

The city was another choke point, where Iraqi fedayeen guerrillas could ambush Marine convoys in city streets. As soon as his Marines reached the city, they began taking fire. Colonel Dowdy could not forget the mauling another regiment had received in Nasiriya, where 17 Marines were killed and another seventy were wounded.

He had to make a choice. His orders were to proceed to al-Kut, but the decision to push through or bypass the town was up to him. However, Colonel Dowdy was receiving mixed signals from his superiors. According to him “there was a lot of confusion”, some officers were recommending an attack, others urged withdrawal.

Marines are America's quick reaction force.

>>32149195
0 citations. You're just copy/pasting Facebook tier shit.

>>32149212
Again 0 citations. Reddit.

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>>32149212
Colonel Dowdy decided to bypass al-Kut. His regiment would take an alternative route to Baghdad that was safer, but the detour of 170 miles meant that the Marines fell further behind schedule. Colonel Dowdy‘s superiors were furious with his decision.

After the withdrawal from al-Kut, General Mattis and other staff officers let the Colonel know that his regiment was to make greater speed. That night on the road to Baghdad, vehicles of the First Marine Regiment were ordered to drive the highways of Iraq with their headlights on, irregardless of security. But their progress was not good enough, the Army‘s Fifth Corps had already reached Baghdad.

Colonel Joe Dowdy was relieved of his command the following day. The Marine Corps will never admit it, but he was fired because he failed to carry out the Corps most important mission in Iraq: Colonel Dowdy failed to upstage the US Army by being the first to reach Baghdad.

The Marines would return to Iraq one year later, when the First Marine Expeditionary Force assumed responsibility for Al Anbar province, which includes the city of Fallujah.

>>32149212
>>32149195
>>32149103
>Muhreens take heavy casualties so they must be ineffective
You sound like a massive faggot and your arguments are built on flawed logic.

>>32149160
The Marines fucked up in Fallujah and showed off how useless they are but you already knew that.

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>>32149249
During the change of command ceremony Lt. Gen. James T. Conway of the I MEF proclaimed that; “Although Marines don’t normally do nation-building, they will tell you that once given the mission, nobody can do it better.” The Marines took control of the area from the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division, and they made no secret of their distain for the Army’s strategy in Iraq.

Before deploying, General Conway had told the New York Times “I don’t envision using that tactic“, when asked about Army troops using air strikes against the insurgents. “I don’t want to condemn what [Army] people are doing. I think that they are doing what they think they have to do.”

On March 30th, General Conway told a reporter that “There’s no place in our area of operation that we won’t go, and we have taken some casualties in the early going making that point“. The next day four civilian contractors were killed and mutilated in Fallujah, and five Marines also lost their lives. The Marines sealed off the city and attempted to reassert control over Fallujah, but the insurgents proved to be more determined than expected.

When their patrols came under heavy fire the lightly armed Marines had only two choices; Fight it out with the insurgents on foot, or call in artillery and air strikes. The inevitable result was scores of Marines killed or wounded, and hundreds of civilian casualties. The world was appalled by the carnage in Fallujah, and the Marines were called off.

>>32149249
*Citation needed*

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>mfw I see the gear the Army gets

I'm jealous of the equipment my hooahbrothas get. When I saw videos of Army recruits shooting M4s when we were going on floats with M16s, I practically shat. Our IARs are fun though.

Anyways. I don't buy into the inter-service shitpost meme.

>>32149266
Yeah, the Army fucked that up.

>>32149270
While Marines were fighting in Fallujah, the US Army was heavily engaged against militiamen loyal to Muqtata al-Sadr in cities throughout Iraq. But in contrast to the Marine’s failure to recapture Fallujah, the US Army’s heavy armored vehicles could enter hostile cities with impunity. They brought al-Sadr to heel after two months of fighting, while suffering relatively few casualties.

An uneasy truce was made between the US Army and al-Sadr’s militia, that would last until the Marines again became involved. On July 31st 2004, the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit replaced Army units in the holy city of Najaf, headquarters of Muqtata al-Sadr. Just five days later, al-Sadr’s militia would again be waging open war against the US, and the Marines would be calling for reinforcements.

The Marines began skirmishing with al-Sadr’s militiamen as soon as they were given responsibility for Najaf. After the uprising in April, US Army units had avoided driving past al-Sadr’s house as part of the informal truce, but this would not do for the Marines. The second Shia uprising began after Marines in Najaf provoked al-Sadr by driving their patrols right up to his stronghold.

A firefight ensued, and al-Sadr’s militiamen took up arms in cities throughout Iraq in a replay of the uprising in April. The Marines had not just picked a fight with Muqtada in Najaf, they had engaged his militia in an ancient cemetery that abutted the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiite Islam’s holiest shrine. And they did this without informing the Army chain of command, or the Iraqi government.

>>32149217
Did you read that from the CoD Modern Warfare guidebook? Can you verify your claims?

>>32149294
How much uncited copy pasta do you have?

>>32147795

In any war, ancient or modern, controlling the seas is massively important. You can't logistically feed, arm, cloth, equip, etc. a strategically important military without ports. You need to be able to bring in the gigantic ships with thousands of tons of stuff to keep an army moving. Knowing this ports are generally, in the build up to a war, heavily defended, very heavily defended.

You need troops that can live on and launch from ships, who are trained and specialized to do that, so you can secure a beachhead, get a port, then begin the invasion. Those are the Marines.

Now why even have them you ask? Troop numbers are fungible. If you take away 10,000 Marines and add 10,000 Naval Infantry to the Army, you haven't reduced or solved anything. All you have done is replaced centuries of pride and tradition and espirit de corps with a brand new green army unit. It's better to just keep the Marines, we need some sort of naval infantry, might as well keep the ones we have.

>>32149294
According to Maj. David Holahan, second in command of the Marine unit in Najaf, “We just did it”. But in a replay of the Fallujah assault, the Marines faced an enemy that they were not prepared for. Within hours of launching their attack on August 5th, the Marines were pinned down, and requesting assistance.

Unfortunately for the Marines, their rash attack on al-Sadr’s headquarters had sparked another revolt by his militiamen. Army units were once again fighting the Mahdi army in cities throughout Iraq. When the Army’s Fifth Cavalry Regiment received orders to reinforce the beleaguered Marines, they were deployed against al-Sadr’s militia in the outskirts of Bagdhad, 120 miles away.

The Fifth Cavalry arrived in Najaf after a two day drive through insurgent controlled territory. By then any opportunity to capture al-Sadr had been lost, because the press, and the Islamic world, were focused on the Imam Ali Mosque and the adjacent cemetery. Any attack on Shiite Islam’s holiest shrine, where Muqtata al-Sadr was holed up, would have had disastrous consequences for the US war effort.

In Fallujah and Najaf, inexperienced Marine units picked fights with insurgents, and in both cases ended up handing the enemy a strategic victory. Their failure to recapture Fallujah made the city a rallying cry for Islamic militarism worldwide, (that is until the second US assault rendered Fallujah uninhabitable). The Marine’s botched attempt to capture Muqtata al-Sadr has only strengthened his hand.

>>32149294
>Fallujah was such an easy fight lolol marines are pussies
They fought door to door you faggot
I hope you're not American, otherwise you better pack your bags

>>32149307
It's called MEUs idiot. Not even him.

>>32149318
Wtf? Marines and 82nd airborne wrecked Fallujah in Phantom Fury. Most retarded shit ever.

>Strategic victory

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>>32149323
The United States Marines pride themselves on being better than the US Army. They are harder, more gung-ho, and they possess some magic that enables them to do things the US Army can’t do. If this is not true, (as history suggests), then there is no reason for a separate Marine Corps.

>>32149292
>Marines lose control of Fallujah and repeat several mistakes, take several fatalities because they can't get their shit together
>Blames US Army

>>32149326
Those waste of tax payer bux that never get used? Oh yeah thanks for reminding me that we waste money of some ego fags that let the Army do everything for them.

>>32149390
It was the Army's fault, why it got transferred to the Marines. Sorry kid.

>>32149323
>Marines are the only ones that fought door to door
>No one in the US Army knows what building clearing is

You marine fanboy dumb dumbs are the worst.

>>32149413
Like that they were first in Vietnam because a MEU. Anyway I'm not going to talk to a Hunter 3-1 name chaos kid.

>>32147795
I didn't even fucking post in this thread.
How did you spammers beat me here? Are you in every thread now??
Also I don't know? I think a maritime army or something
they did save the a10

>>32149422
Who then lost control of the city because they couldn't stop shooting up civilians and weddings. Thanks marines! Good thing they have morons like you to suck their dick and defend them on the internet.

>>32149433
I was rebuking his claim that marines fucked up in Fallujah. Most of the battles he listed where the marines were "ineffective because they took heavy casualties" were just fucking hard battles. Fallujah, the Pacific theater, Korea, Vietnam.

I'm not anti army pro marines pro anti anything. I'm not in any fucking service. I'm disputing the historical revisionism that is the marines aren't an effective or necessary fighting force.

It's understandable that maybe the marines mission has become perverted a little beyond their amphibious assault beginnings but its not uncommon or stupid for any nation to have multiple armies with different characteristics

>>32148018
Get me a jigsaw puzzle and some complex emotional concepts, or a civilian lifestyle; I'll show you some marines failing.

>>32149456
>Vietnam

Yeah kid, I'm sure the US Army had no way of getting there. Thank goodness we had US Army 2 to save us from those Vietnamese invasion forces before they could have reached the west coast!

>>32148909
It's not really an insult. It is a very apt description of the Marines in reply to OPs question.

>>32149422
>army goes the route of keeping bases outside the city itself and leaving things to develop organically rather than LOL NATION BUILDING TIME, STACK UP AND BREACH

>>32149509
It's very uncommon. The Marines are a fucking waste. If the US Marines was disbanded tomorrow the US military could move on with the Army just adapting a couple infantry units. Even the Air Force is more critical as it maintains nukes and air mobility command.

>>32149160
Um...Anon, the Marines royally fucked Fallujah up tho.

>>32149537
In reality Navy only gave me a helicopter ride 1 time. But yeah, I get what you're saying.

>>32148254
it was made by /k/ to shit on airsofters


newfags don't actually know this sonthey end up thinking it's real

>>32149224
>>32149243
>>32149274
>>32149311
>sour grapes
This is all common knowledge (at least from the Gulf War on) to people who were alive at the time. Go read a book on Iraq II: Insurgent Boogaloo if you're really interested.

Here's the Marine Corps.

Get treated like shit for an inordinate amount of time until a deployment hits, let them loose and complain when they let out their pent up resentment and sexual frustration on their literal and perceived enemies, nothing changes and every lance corporal gets barred from promotion while the command staff is not even slapped on the wrists.

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>>32149509
>It's understandable that maybe the marines mission has become perverted a little beyond their amphibious assault beginnings
>a little
anon, please.


even if that niche still existed, when it was around, guess who conducted the largest amphibious landing in the history of warfare?

It wasn't the United States Marine Corps.

>>32149379
Phantom Fury was the second operation where they wrecked the city. The first battle the US withdrew.

question to any Marines ITT

in training, we all know they go over USMC history with all the relish, but do they touch on the fact that there were no Marines in the continental army that won the Revolutionary War?

>>32149509
>Most of the battles he listed where the marines were "ineffective because they took heavy casualties" were just fucking hard battles. Fallujah, the Pacific theater, Korea, Vietnam
Yes, and the Army units that fought alongside them throughout all of those battles took proportionately fewer casualties while achieving the same or better results.

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>people basing the effectiveness of individual troops within the Army/USMC in battle upon political decisions made by way higher who weren't directly fighting

oh /k/

Wow, the Marine trolling is strong here. They are just flat out making shit up.

Penis envy, it's a helluva drug. Good laugh tho.

>>32149509
>>32149732
In 2006 there were 23,000 Marines in Iraq, out of a total 138,000 U.S. Armed Forces personnel. Marines were 17 percent of our total force, yet they suffered 29 percent of all U.S. casualties; 530 of the more than 1,820 U.S. service personnel killed in Iraq at the time. The Marine’s aggressive tactics combined with a lack of armored firepower has proven lethal, their bravery notwithstanding.

>>32147834
Well, that's the plan anyway.

>>32149727

wat

Marines exist as a filter to keep out all the fratboys and the dumbest of retards out of the army.

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>>32149863
This

So who actually gets to a conflict first, Army Airborne or Marines?

>>32149558
Stop pretending to be me!

>>32149863
If only that meme was true. Army has lower standards and more tards.
>>32149889
They send both.

>>32149889
Depends who's in the area and what the situation is.

Typically, SOF and air strikes show up before either.

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>>32148136
This dude knows what's up.

>>32149931
The Marines have more rapists. Sorry to break it to you. Ask Japan.

>>32149982
>He thinks that's a negative

Good.

>>32149727
It was mainly ww2,vietnam,and phantom fury we went over history wise.

>>32150004
>ooga booga gib more bux for dem programs

Marines: Niggers of the DoD

>>32149270
If I remember correctly from someone that was with 82nd when they handed over Fallujah to the Marines the 82nd tried to tell them not to trust the locals, keep their distance and kill anything that looks funny or else they will catch IEDs up their ass. The Marines didn't listen and quickly took casualties.

>>32150061
You don't remember correctly.

>>32150096
That what I was told from someone who was there with the 82nd. They were warned to keep Iraqis from getting close and not trust the interrupters. Marines processed to walk into some shit and get blown up, then they tried to act like it was the 82nds fault.

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>>32149388

>>32148018
Daily reminder that the 8th Air Force had more killed in action during WWII than the entire Marine Corps.

>>32148087
dude you need to stop namefagging and get a tripcode already

>>32148136
>Air Force
>Mini-Army

since when did the USAF have that?

>>32150519
>cant read

>>32149889
>>32149931
Unless the marines are offshore, like literally in the bay on liberty when the order comes, it's almost certainly going to be the army.

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Because marines are even more gay than the Navy.

>>32149771
>combined with a lack of armored firepower has proven lethal, their bravery notwithstanding.
Sounds like this entire thread is just shitting on the Marines for not being as well equipped as the Army.

>>32149889
The Press.

>>32149889
Somebody talking about me?

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>>32151441
Forgot pic

>>32147795
>why is the Marines so separate from the Navy

Because it's a separate branch.

> despite being a department of the Navy

you know what else is under the department of the Navy? The Navy! The Department of the Navy is not the Navy. The DotN is a civilian run organization that handles administrative work for the Navy and the Marines.

>>32150488
The "Air Force" didn't exist in WWII.

>>32151565
Hey fuckhead they were called Air Forces just like Fleets were numbered in the Navy or Corps in the Army. Read a book cocksucker.

>>32149024
Precisely. Fuckups.

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>>32149292
>The USMC fucked up in Fallujah
>"NO YOU!"
Top tier rebuttal, devil dog.

>>32149552
Hey man, sepsis is organic. Doesn't make it healthy.

>>32149323
>pack your bags
Let me guess. You're that SEAL sniper with over 300 kills whose fucked the mothers of every single COD player, right?

>>32149982
If you're talking about Okinawa, those asshats were navy.

>>32150705
Or as competent. Or as useful.

>>32152318
Cute doggle

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>>32150519
comprehension

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You guys really hate muhreens, huh?

So what i gather from this thread is that, in their original role as ship-borne, beach assault maritime troops, and in their self proclaimed new one as shock troops, the main merit of the Marine corps is that they are able to charge head first into automatic gunfire with no one feeling particularly bad about it.

>>32149076
Thomas Jefferson was responsible for one of the first interventionist military act during which the US Marine Corps was ordered to burn down Tripoli. Come on dude the entire Marine Corps hymn is singing about getting to goto other nations and fuck shit up. George Washington may have been an isolationist but the founding fathers had very different views on the world.

>>32149771
Well it could also be interpreted as the Marines were in much heavier fighting and in more kinetic places. Thus leading to more casualties

/k/ really likes to shit on the Marines for some reason
>dumb
>useless
>poorer army

>>32148087
No, YOU stop pretending to be ME.

>>32147795

Somebody's got to take the gear, people, and fights the army doesn't want...

>>32148126
That image hurts to read

>>32154807
Its a vital role for the United States Military. We need an expeditionary force that we can send out to go fuck things up far away from home, and the Marines are pretty good, despite being anal about remaining a separate service

I don't know why we even have service rivalries

Despite all the just criticism of the marines, they are the whitest branch and so the best branch
That along is the reason to keep em

>>32156408
Back to /pol/ with you, nazi moron

Wait, why does /k/ hate the Marines so much again? Is it just a knee-jerk countercultural reaction to their gung-ho media image?

You people make it sound like they've never had any successes and have no utility as a fighting force. I simply don't believe that that's true.

>>32149664
Guess who fought in almost every amphibious engagement in the Pacific Theater? Despite what you might think, there was a specialized purpose for the Marines during WW2. Putting army troops in boats to cross a small channel and then fight on the German mainland with full logistical support due to the sheer scale of the invasion and the close proximity of support is not equivalent to repetitive island hopping amphibious invasions over thousands of miles in conjunction with a naval campaign. You're completely full of shit if you think that those two things are equivalent and that the latter does not benefit from specialized training where the former does not. Not to mention that the Japanese were an opposing force with a specific focus on infantry combat which the Marine Corps were (and still are) better than the army at. Pointing out some of the shortcomings of the modern day Marine Corps is fine, but stating that amphibious invasions do not benefit from specialized personnel, then or now, is total horseshit.

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>>32147834
Army.
>9 weeks.
Marines.
>13 weeks.
Army.
>300M
Marines.
>500M
Army.
>2 mile run
Marines.
>3 mile run.
Army.
>Womyn Rangers.
Marines.
>No Womyn Infantry.

Army BTFO. Marine Infantry rekt Rangers.

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>>32156999

>Guess who fought in almost every amphibious engagement in the Pacific Theater?

The United States Army, and with greater success than the Marine Corps.

>>32158003
Wut.
>Okinawa.
>Army gets BTFO'd.
>Marines take over and rekt Japs.
US Army General Douglas MacArthur LOVED Marines.

>>32148018
Spastic, learn some history. The term marine comes from armed occupants of naval vessels who kept the sailors -whose weapons locked up until battle- in check, doing little to no work to the vessel itself. They were used to quell dissent amongst the drunk unruly faggots. It was only later that they started to deploy on shore. You great big bungling mongloid. Oh and by the way this term stretches across all early navies, including early America.

>>32158003
Holy fucking shit. It's useless arguing with someone this uneducated. The vast majority of both historians and military veterans who fought in the actual battles agree than the marines were instrumental to the Pacific Theater. Marines were the spearhead of the amphibious invasion forces and they performed their specialized task extremely well.

Seriously, did a Marine fuck your girlfriend or something? You have such an inferiority complex that it's comical. You have so much hatred for the Marines that you're literally unable to say that they were ever once successful.

Let's just cut to the chase. Regardless of their justifications for being a separate branch, Marines are better trained at infantry fighting tactics and perform well in their capacity as shock troops. They are superior in amphibious operations accompanying Naval campaigns. Perhaps it's true that they are overstepping their boundaries in the modern battlefield. But they have a legitimate reason for being a separate branch. For a superpower like the US, power projection is serious business, and you can't effectively transition from a naval assault to a ground campaign without an amphibious element that is highly specialized.

>>32158550
Not really. The army did far more and did it better. While the marines were doing their pointless and marginal island hopping campaign the army and USAF bled the japs dry, conquered vast swathes of territory and opened the way to the Philippines.

>>32159026
Holy Shit the delusion.
How do you think the ARMY Air Corps got the airfields?

>>32158550
The whole point of using Marines in current conflicts was just because it wasn't amphibious warfare it'd be stupid just to let Marines sit on their ass.

Getting out of a boat is like 1% of the job, just like jumping out a airplane is 1% of Airbornes. Not using them would be the real waste of taxpayer money. Not to mention it gives them combat experience.

Other than that, you are absolutely correct.

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>>32147834

>>32147795
>so why is the Marines so separate from the Navy?
Easier to get government funding
>what is the modern day point of the Marines?
To grant brown people citizenship without the rest of the citizens getting pissed off about it.

They do nothing unique. The Army has done more and bigger naval landings in just the last 50 years than the Marines have done in their entire existence. The Army has fought more battles of all sizes while suffering comparatively fewer casualties across two world wars and over 200 brushfire engagements.

The Marines are good for doing three things: Getting foreigners citizenship, getting killed needlessly through antiquated doctrine, and raping civilians.

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>>32159564
>Tfw Lance Corpora
>Stop for Colors
>Another guy from PX is walking with bag in one hand and talking on cell phone in the other
>I yell across grinder "Hey bitch! Stop it's colors!"
>He drops his bag and hangs up phone, goes to attention
>Walk up afterwards
>He's a SSgt.
>Just look at him as he looks at me
> He walks away because he knows I'm right

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>>32159026
>The USAF that didn't exist yet bleeding the the Japs dry
>The Army doing anything relevant in the Pacific theater
wow, really makes the neural activity in my brain increase

>>32159393
For the most part they already had them.

The majority of bombing missions in the Pacific Campaign were flown out of Guam and Hawaii.

Literally the only notable airfield siezed during the Pacific Campaign was Henderson, at Guadalcanal.

Also of note, the majority of the actual airfield seizure was done by Seabees and soldiers, not Marines.

>>32159644
You have yet to source any of these arguments

>>32159650
>didn't use the island airfields except Henderson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan
>B29's based in India, Hawaii, and China

>Henderson seized by Seabees and US Army engineers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_Campaign
>forces commanded by Army general Alexander Patch
>Chesty Puller commanded 1/7th Marines while Robert Hall commanded 3/164th, equal number Marines and Soldiers

>Henderson then held by Marines and Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Henderson_Field

Feel stupid yet?

>>32159734
Oh, missed something.
>Puller led his Marines directly across the still-occupied airfield (directly against orders), taking heavy casualties from artillery fire, then pushed into hills on far side cutting himself and his Marines off because he never bothered to secure the airfield
>Hall had to mount a rescue mission, killed most of the gooks on airfield in the process but also pushed straight across it
>a single company of lightly armed Seabees actually secured the airfield

>>32159650
>durrr not an argument
Do you even read what you are responding to?

>>32159762
I really don't understand why every marine hero-worships Chesty Puller. He routinely defied orders and got tens of thousands of Marines killed that would never have died if he'd obeyed orders.

>>32159778
You dunno because you aren't in the know.

>Trying to disrespect Chesty

Now that's bait.

>>32159804
How's this then?
>Chesty Puller defied orders, abandoned his post, and got a lot of good men killed in the process.
>Chesty Puller is a coward and deserter and should have been executed for dereliction of duty and treason, then posthumously stripped of all awards and honors

>>32149634
>this is all common knowledge

Then you should be able to easily cite it you insufferable excuse for an arm chair general.

>>32159836
Okay. Proofs?

>>32157867
>Running more and spending more time folding socks makes you a better warrior

t. dumb dumb marine fanboy.

>>32159922
Read the links in >>32159734
they go into great detail on how Puller defied orders then ran like a coward once he realized he got himself surrounded.

>>32159960
>Train longer, shoot better, run more, and a less cucked mentality
>Fanboy

Holy shit. No one is in that much denial.

>>32150519
>doesn't know what the Airborne divisions are

>>32159960
>>32159960
>hunter
fag

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>>32159734
>Henderson was the only important battle in the Pacific front
>Marines are incompetent because they took this airfield alongside the 3/164th
>Seabees captured the majority of the airfields during the war in the Pacific because they once secured an airfield behind the main force
>Puller is a coward and traitor because he overextended his men

>>32160028
>Child doesn't know Air Force created in 1947

>>32159630
He's right though, the Army did far more operations then the Marines.

>>32160039
>Henderson was the only airfield seized that the US based airplanes out of later (the whole argument over whether or not the island-hopping campaign meant shit-all towards the assault on Japan proper)
>Marines are incompetent because they got themselves totally hemmed up and requried a force of equal size to come rescue them
>Seabees captured the only airfield that mattered, and 3 of the 5 total airfields seized out of the 4 branches operating in the Pacific (Coast Guard kinda-sorta got one of the others in conjunction with the Army, Marines got the last one)
>Puller is a coward and a traitor because he did exactly what he was directly ordered not to do, then ran--directly defied a direct order then abandoned his post--literally the textbook definitions of desertion, insurrection, and insubordination

>>32160077
Nope.

Literally not relevant in the Pacific.

>>32160092
Just because they didn't fly airplanes off those airfields doesn't mean capturing enemy airfields didn't matter. Are you saying they should've just let the Japs continue to run operations from there? And none of these Wikipedia articles say anything regarding Puller running off from his post, why he ran from his post, or if he didn't follow orders.

I'm not even sure why I'm having an argument about 70-year-old military actions with some faggot on a Mongolian finger-painting forum anyway.

>>32155444
The presidency changed Jefferson drastically, he goes back on many of his convictions.

That said you need navies to keep trade, a large powerful navy I'd argue is even more critical for being isolationist

>>32155897
>>32148087
stop copying me

>>32160095
There were more Army divisions on the Pacific then the entire US Marines had in the entire war.

>>32155444
Why would we keep the the Marines over the army?

>>32160281
True. They didn't do much fighting, and when they did kinda shit desu.

>>32160287
We wouldn't. Marines are better because smaller and can be more selective.

If we made the Marine Corps as large as the Army they wouldn't be effective fighters either.

>>32160390
Then why did you want the Army folded into the Marines in this post >>32149076 unless that's not you and I made a mistake of association.

>>32160374
Not, they did most of the fighting, from the Aleutian Islands to Okinawa, the Army undertook many of the operations in the Pacific. Some units even took part in major operations in both Theaters of War.

Stop with this Marine Corps circlejerk, it's mainly PR from the 80s.

>>32160467
Because you're talking to two people, and that's not my post.

>>32160500
my mistake

>>32160071
>HURR DURRR
>they were founded after WW2 that means I'm right
>reading comprehension

He said since when did Air Force have "army units". Well that's what modern airborne units are dipshit.

FUCKING KEK.
The Army surrendered in such numbers, that a MARINE had to write a code of conduct for them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_United_States_Fighting_Force
Fucking /k/ BTFO'd.

>>32160542
Np.
>>32160559
1st largest Air Force: Air Force USA
2nd: US Army
3rd: US Navy
4th: I think it's the UK
5th: the USMC

I think we'll be ok.

>>32160596
Both sides surrendered in large numbers, the fact that it was written by a Marine has nothing to do with it.

>>32157867
>thinking basic training duration has any sort of impact on the effectiveness of troops

Anyone who's ever done time in will tell you that all real and useful training occurs at the unit. Basic is learning to follow instructions, physical fitness, and drill and ceremony.

>rifle qual ranges

Never done a known distance range with the army? Downrange feedback at 500 meters, which is the max effective range with the rifle.

>run length

If you're running that far in combat in one go, you already fucked up beyond all belief.

>womyn

All three of those women could hate-fuck you at pt, and I'm sure they pitch a mean opord too.

>>32159734
>Things that didn't happen for $100 Alex.

Chesty Puller never made a retreat.

The Army REINFORCED after WEEKS on Guadalcanal.

Marines had a 7-1 kill rate on the IJA. Army? 3-1.

why do people say the Marines lifestyle is the shittiest out o fall military?

>>32160034
>impersonating someone and then calling others who are doing the same thing a fag

k

>>32159734
Later on Guadalcanal, Puller was awarded his third Navy Cross, in what was later known as the "Battle for Henderson Field". Puller commanded 1st Battalion 7th Marines (1/7), one of two American infantry units defending the airfield against a regiment-strength Japanese force. The 3rd Battalion of the U.S. Army's 164th Infantry Regiment (3/164) fought alongside the Marines. In a firefight on the night of October 24–25, 1942, lasting about three hours, 1/7 and 3/164 sustained 70 casualties; the Japanese force suffered over 1,400 killed in action, and the Americans held the airfield. He nominated two of his men (one being Sgt. John Basilone) for Medals of Honor. He was wounded himself on November 9.

>>32159734
Puller was then made executive officer of the 7th Marine Regiment. While serving in this capacity at Cape Gloucester, Puller was awarded his fourth Navy Cross for overall performance of duty between December 26, 1943, and January 19, 1944. During this time, when the battalion commanders of 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines (3/7) and later, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines (3/5), were under heavy machine gun and mortar fire, he expertly reorganized the battalion and led the successful attack against heavily fortified Japanese defensive positions. He was promoted to colonel effective February 1, 1944, and by the end of the month had been named commander of the 1st Marine Regiment. In September and October 1944, Puller led the 1st Marine Regiment into the protracted battle on Peleliu, one of the bloodiest battles in Marine Corps history, and received his first of two Legion of Merit awards. The 1st Marines under Puller's command lost 1,749 out of approximately 3,000 men, not that these losses stopped Puller from ordering frontal assaults against the well entrenched enemy. The corps commander had to order the 1st Marine Division commanding general to pull the annihilated 1st Marine Regiment out of the line.[6]

>>32160780
Something along the lines 'Sir, were surrounded".

Good, it will be easier to kill the bastards.

I respect every vet, every /k/ommando that's pro 2nd Amendment. Troll me /k/, I can take it. My skin is thick. former 0311, I don't want thanked for my service. I simply want less shit Lords.

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I've figured it out.
/k/ is full of Autists.
The Army is the Army.
The Navy is the Navy.
The Air Force is the Air Force.
The Marines are all but neither.
This triggers /k/ Autism to TURBO.
The delusion, and mental gymnastics, in this thread is usually reserved for Tumblr.
Screencap for future generations.
>pic /k/ right now.

>>32150061
>The Marines didn't listen

This literally describes pretty much every time an AO has changed hands in OIF or OEF, even when it's an Army unit taking over for another Army unit.

>>32147795
>What is the modern day point of the Marines?

Well, someone has to rape Filipino prostitutes and Okinawan women.

>>32156408
>wanting whites to die for the Jews
Good goy

>>32156999
The Army was present at those battles also. In larger numbers and with more success.

>>32161670
He says for the 16th time with ,0 proof.

Achsuytiallluy... No.

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>>32160700
OK.
>Politically pushed womyn.
Hate fuck me at PT?
OK female pull up max 8.
Mine? 18 out of 20.

>>32161699
>muh proofs
Battle of Okinawa (the largest engagement of the war for the USMC) the US Army had 4 infantry divisions to the Marines 3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

The Philippines Campaign was entirely an Army operation, with 1.2 million soldiers. The USMC wasn't even present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_Campaign_(1944%E2%80%9345)

Incidentally the most famous battle where the US Army wasn't present was Tarawa, which is remembered an a total cluster fuck up by the USMC and Navy.

Mission creep since the dawn of the 20th century.

instead of keeping the marines to marine stuff. like shore raids, boarding actions, and establishing beachheads. they kept growing the marine corps and using them like a second army or second naval aviation.

>>32147795
The marines are people who want to fight and see other parts of the world first hand.
The navy are people who want to see other parts of the world while they cornhole each other off shore
The army are people who want to sit in garrison waiting for the call to go fuck up something big all at once. They are very good at this.
The air force are people who want to play golf; and occasionally bomb the shit out of a distant target

>>32159960
I also wanted to add that I really loving shoving cock into my arsehole.

So yeah, fuck off Marine fanboys.

>>32161959
Well during ww2 there was 8 million Army and 5,000 Marines. So 16 Army for every 1 Marine.

Nice to know you moderately assisted.

>all this shitposting
>no mention of Maneuver Warfare
>MattisLaugh.jpg

The entire reason the Marine Corps is still relevant to American military doctrine is because they specialize in expeditionary combined arms operations. No one else can coordinate combined arms at the tactical level in a conventional warfare scenario as well as the USMC, especially without inorganic logistic support. The MAGTF will remain the preferred method of force projection and fucking up freedom-haters at the division/brigade level for the foreseeable future.

>>32162105
>500,000 Marines
ftfy
That's my entire fucking point though. You faggots are acting like the Marines won the entire Pacific theater when the Army was present in larger numbers with larger areas of responsibility.

>>32161908
Is that a dependant id card? For pvt/lcpl(the shit?)? I cant tell because of potato quality.

Also, I've interacted personally with one of them. She's a stud.

>>32162429

Not him, but that's a blue Retired teslin. He's probably TDRL or PDRL given the rank.

>>32162482
Ah, trick of the light.
Sounds like he isn't doing much pt these days either way.

>>32162482
PDRL 70%.
Broke both ankles and rekt both Achilles tendons. Then tried to kill myself.