It's time to let go of .45 ACP. This cartridge is mathematically

>he needs more than 7 rounds

Why don't you cry about .38? If there's any outdated cartridge, it's that.

Goddamn turopoors hate freedom, .45 won WW2 and 9mm lost it.

>>32039691
>Practice ammo for .357s
>Still very practical in pocket snubbies

>>32039684
Wow, this is some quality constructed bait, who'd you pay to do it?

>>32039691
But there's no chance of the US military replacing the M9 with a .38 handgun

>>32039696
Sidearms don't win wars, but they save the lives of men who do. The .45 was excellent for that at the time, but now that doublestack magazines and hollowpoint ammunition are used it's no longer superior to the 9mm. The .45 now has an advantage in diameter and a slight edge in energy, but the 9mm has more substantial advantages such as magazine capacity, controlability and doing the same job as the .45 for cheaper

>>32039691
but the .38 is not getting more popular and has no chance of being adopted by the US military

>>32039725
snub nose revolvers are a viable option, but they are outclassed by one of the most recent advance in firearm technology: pocket-sized 9mm handguns

>>32039741
/k/ loves the 10mm, but why not love the .45 Super? it's a higher pressure .45 Auto, can be fired in the larger HKs and has energy similar to 10mm

seriously, what's not to like? it's a direct improvement

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>>32039684
>5 to 9 rounds of magazine capacity


Bait and SAGE

>>32039684
I like it. That's all that matters.

>>32039751
The military cannot use hollowpoints

.45 fmj > 9mm fmj

>>32039684
>choosing cartridges based on muzzle energy

>not based on kinetic energy imparted to the target
.45 is a bigger, heavier round.
>inb4 muh 1911 stoppin powah

>>32039684
The diameter may be only 0.1 bigger, but the AREA that the bullet covers with a .45 is nearly double that of 9mm, and that is before expansion. Many JHP rounds in 45ACP expand to more than an inch. This means you have far more likelyhood per shot to smash something squishy and inportant.

Energy is almost irrelevant. Both have enough to expand and will still retain enough energy to blow clean through a man.

Your capacity statement is very relevant, but there are concealable doublestack .45s that negate this shortcoming. In addition, i believe the average number of rounds fired in a self defense situation is around two. In other words, even something with less capacity such as a 1911 carries four times as many as the average.

Utimately, it comes down to preference. Do you drive only the most efficient car? Or wear the most efficient shoes? No, because there are aspects you like that may hurt efficiency but fillvsome other niche you value.

>tldr; shut up fag

>>32039785
>.45 fmj > 9mm fmj
correct

>The military cannot use hollowpoints
The US military can since they never signed the Hague Convention, but it's mostly Special Forces that use them. Sidearms are not used often enough, so they wouldn't make HP rounds standard issue, too expensive

>>32039793
light and fast projectile = less stable in soft medium, more expansion.

heavy and slow projectile = more stable in soft medium, usually more penetration

source: http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/135302/Gunshot_wounds._Practical_aspects_of_firearms,_ballistics,_and_forensic_techniques.pdf

>>32039805
>Many JHP rounds in 45ACP expand to more than an inch.

source? I've yet to see one expand to more than .85 (which is still excellent of course)

>i believe the average number of rounds fired in a self defense situation is around two.

that would include 9mm handguns, and if you're in a bad situation that requires more (sometimes people only go down after being shot 20+ times), the 9mm has that plus the advantage of quicker follow up shots

>>32039868
Winchester PDX1 230 gr. Bonded

>>32039868
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2016/10/27/g2-research-adds-45-acp-civic-duty/
These, PDX1s, and others. I have had some huge expansion from HSTs.


Follow up shots are subjective. My heavy steel 1911s allow follow up shots way faster than my polymer and alloy 9mms. There are many factors.

>>32039691
You shut your mouth!

>>32039684
It's outdated. Might have made sense in 1910, when everything was unjacketed or FMJ and most semi-autos were either very low pressure or fired tiny calibers. But fat and slow is only good for suppressors now. With modern defensive ammunition, modern gun construction and steel, and modern shooting technique, the 9mm is the most all-around useful handgun cartridge.

>>32039684
You do have an argument for capacity and the similarity of terminal ballistics between the three. However, it's America. I like .45 ACP so I have a handgun that shoots it.

Also the XD-45 and XDm in .45 ACP both hold 13+1 without fuck huge grips. I believe Glock also has a fullsize .45 ACP that holds over 10 and you can get a silly huge magazine for it. Something like 30 rounds I think?

>>32039767
Technically it can be fired from any .45 ACP firearm. The main issue is that you need to replace the recoil springs in order to take the greater force. Otherwise you may very well beat your slide to death. IIRC if you have a HK USP, you don't NEED to replace the springs, it's just a good idea.

>>32039684
So does larger diameter and lower pressure not lend it's self better toward suppressors?

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>>32039691
.38spcl is some weak ass shit, I can confirm.

shot a round through mom's bro's police revolver at a wood pile, the fucking lead projectile bounced off of the woodpile and came back in my direction, hitting a sliding glass door.

It did not break the glass door, it's just that weak. Why in the world would cops use ammunition that weak?

You have years of police using
>.38SPCL weak ass bullshit
>12 gauge buckshot (weak ass bullshit)

absolutely no penetrating capability. Is the danger of overpenetration really that high in the police force?

>>32039785
>.45 fmj > 9mm fmj
nope.

>>32040475
>147gr 9mm

>>32040475
nope. larger diameter lets more gas escape. suppressed .45s are noticeably louder than suppressed 9mms.

>>32040498
what is the price difference between 147gr 9mm and regular old FMJ aluminum cased .45ACP?

>pls gunbot it for me, I'm tired

>>32040596
http://www.gunbot.net/

>>32040644
:(

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Anyone who has been in combat knows that .45 switches off bad guys and 9mm just puts a clean hole through them. People are using rifle ballistics to justify 9mm and dont realize that at slow speeds the low weight of a 9mm is just dont going to retain energy nor cause major damage. Yes it has good penetration, but so does a 22lr

If you only spend your time at a range and reading gun magazines then by all means, the 9mm is for you. If your life depends on your side arm then .45 is the only choice

>>32039684
>inb4 supressors, any 147gr loads for 9mm and 180gr for .40 S&W are subsonic
.45ACP subsonic is still better than either of those. With a hard upper limit on speed, bigger bullets and bigger holes are better for subsonic work.

>>32039684
>It's time to let go of .45 ACP. This cartridge is mathematically inferior to 9mm and .40 S&W
>This cartridge is mathematically inferior to
>mathematically
>using rationalism on a problem that calls for empiricism

Wew, lad.

>>32040770
>disgruntled fudd detected

Why don't you go re-bed your M14, faggot?

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>>32040497
>smaller and lighter is better at subsonic speeds than larger and heavier
??

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>>32040831

why do 9x19mmfags always act like caliber nazis.... oh wait

>>32040857
>.45 ACP
>Because my brother/father dropped me on my head as a baby while trying to straighten his confederate flag

>>32040857
B-but that's a Star Model B.

>>32040904
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Pulp_Fiction
>Hitman Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) carries a 9mm Star Model B throughout the film.

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>>32040831
>Why don't you go re-bed your M14, faggot?
This meme always struck me as the tactiqueer equivalent of fudd lore. The M14 does NOT need bedding when used in its intended purpose as a field rifle or a DMR. It's mostly paper punchers that bitch about that last .5MOA you can eke out of the platform.

>>32040914
That's my point, that image makes no sense. It should be Vincent in the pic.

9mm is best for ventilating nerds after giving a hard ass speech, 45 is best for accidentally blasting your buddies in the face.

>>32040926
disagree, the M-1 action is highly accurate out of the box will put in MOA accurancy doing nothing more than free floating the barrel, its a shame this is not done during manufacture to get the full potential out of this rifle

>>32040926
Field rifle yes. DMR, eh not so much. But the point generally is that it's entirely an avoidable problem. The M14 was a mistake, it never should have been adopted. Great rifle for WWII, but it was obsolete before it was even in production. The US should have stuck with our side of the deal and adopted the FAL.

>>32039767
I've been trying to say this for months. .45 Super and .45-08 are both a direct improvement over .45 ACP. .45 Super makes it an effective platform. If one is feeling saucy, they could ever do a .460 Rowland conversion.

>>32040458
Yeah, but the XD-9 carries 19+1 in 9mm.

>>32040980
every beginner to shooting goes through their magnum phase, dont worry kid, you'll grow out of it

>>32040988
Okay, nigger, I sold my .45 for a 9mm because of ammo cost. You're being an ignorant, immature troll. Leave.

>>32040988
Also I've been shooting since I was 9 you twat, I'm no beginner.

>>32040986
Or a CZ P-09 since XD is literal shit

>>32041050
>XD-45
how about a Walther PPQ 45 with 12x1?

>>32040986
I don't see how that matters when the point was that there are .45 ACP handguns on the market with a capacity over 10 without fuck huge grips.

>>32041050
Objectively false. 3/10 I replied.

>>32040980
nobody actually uses those.

>>32040796
fuddy faav isn't anywhere close to the speed of sound.

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>it's a "1911fag hurt my feelings at the range so I need to justify my taste in ammunition on an anonymous anime imageboard" episode

>>32041319
>my confidence in my preferred cartridge is threatened by a post on a Nepalese fingerpainting collective

>>32040880
>everyone who disagrees with me is a hick

Sounds like something a liberal cocksucker would say.

>>32041329
>implying either .45 ACP or 9mm is my preferred cartridge

Wew lad

>>32041336
>everyone who disagrees with me is a liberal

Sounds like something a retarded hick would say.

>>32041353
>everyone who disagrees with me is a retarded hick

This is a never ending circle. Keep throwing those (You)s at me, lad. I've got all day.

>>32040486
I think it has more to do with the lack of a need for penetration. Only with ease of access to plate carriers and armour do they need to be upgunned to stay competitive and relevant.

>>32040486
>12 gauge buckshot (weak ass bullshit)
Hey man, 12 gauge buck is fine in its intended niche of killing unarmored baddies without over-penetrating walls.

Seriously, all this fucking cock holster flapping about 9 vs 45 when it doesn't even matter. Niggers, you live in a world where 10Meme-e-meter exists. Why even keep swinging purses when the ultimate round is widely available and cannot be disputed?

>>32042005
I was with you until the walls part

>>32039774
>announcing sage

see you in 3 days, kiddo! :)

Because I like .45 you fucking cocksucker.

>>32039684
you're mathematically inferior to a cunt

>>32039684
It's an insanely popular round
It's not going anywhere
You're retarded
Stop making these stupid fucking threads

>>32039684
.45 ACP is still used by operators including SEALs and Delta Force for a reason. On a per-round basis it just has more stopping power. People who are confident enough to hit what they're aiming at on the first round don't need the extra ammo capacity.

Also, there's always .45 super

>>32040980
Me too bro.

>>32039684
Using subsonic loads and suppressed you get more energy out of a 255gr .45 than a 147 9mm.

Most factory loads show .45 with slightly more muzzle energy. It also looses it's energy at a slower rate.

>>32039684
All i know is that when i shoot at a phone book or gallon jug of water, the hole is bigger with the 45acp fmj vs 9mm fmj.

If i need to move up to hp or +p+ on a 9mm to compete with an fmj 45acp 230gr, im wasting money.

And i waste money carrying a LAR grizzly in 45winmag as my ccw. I will literally blow a motherfucker up with this shit.

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>not carrying around a revolver chambered in .475 linebaugh

LOL enjoy having to shoot your attacker twice fags

bulletlets, when will they learn?