Ok... If someone would have accidenttally travelled back in

>>31974898
Go read a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court.

>If someone would have accidenttally travelled back in time and was in antiquity...
>And he'd have knowledge of modern science (but not have an industrial base to manufacture anything more complex than with say... blacksmith/alchemy-level)...
Nothing would happen because knowing that something exists and doing it are two major different things.

Go around and make gunpowder and convert it into something you can use as a weapon without using anything you can buy at a store and then, afterwards, there is something to be discussed.

>>31974898
they had bronze. making bronze pipe bombs is quite feasible. also bronze small cannons.

>>31974918
Or watch Black Knight with Martin Lawrence. Basically same thing.

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>>31974921
Charcoal, saltpeter and sulfur.
All known in the antiquity and used in different areas such as medicine.

Just go find someone in the bazaar/forum who can get them for you are start mixing up. A few tries with composition and you should find the decently working formula.

I don't see a reason why one couldn't get it working, _if he knows what he's looking for_.

I think that it would be a lot harder to make guns/cannons than gunpowder. The casting tech and available amounts of decently workable metal were really poor at antiquity.
A simple bronze cauldron/cooking pot was often the most expensive item an average household would own, and armors and military tech were horrendiously expensive.
Using TONS of the stuff would be super expensive even for small nations.

>>31974970
>_if he knows what he's looking for_

You're missing the whole doesn't speak the language thing that would be a mutant huge problem.

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>>31974983
Implying I don't speak koine greek, latin, egyptian and aramaic.

What are you, some kind on uneducated person?
Do you even gentleman?

>>31974898
He could make a Sten.

>>31974983
Romans speak British though?

>>31974898
did they even have metal screws and nuts back then?

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>>31975196

Are you serious?

>>31975185
I doubt they have springs dude.

Otherwise yes, I honestly believe it could have been done in antiquity--a very shitty black powder open-bolt SMG.

Obscenely expensive, of course.

>>31974970
Why is bronze still so fooking expensive today?

I would like to use Bronze fittings on things, but it's a bit pricey and the extra lubricity usually isn't worth it.

>>31974898
>but would it work in sea-mines? It's hard to get anything entirely waterproof.
clay pots nigga

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>>31975295
yeah but what seals?

beeswax? honey? tree sap? leather? bone?

The Girandoni air rifle had leather and bone seals for the air tank and that was built around like 1700s.

>>31975311
pitch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_(resin)

>>31975315
yeah they will surely adapt petroleum refining asap

>>31975341
You can get it from wood nigger. That shit has been around forever.

>>31975341
Do you not know that tar and pitch were used for centuries to seal the space between planks in wooden hulled ships?

>>31975375
Maybe it would work, but clay still needs treated to be completely waterproof anyway.

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>>31975311
That's bad to the bone. Learn something new everyday. Thanks anon.

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>>31975196
>>31975257

Truly the easiest board.

>>31975260
>>31975227
>>31974943
>>31974970
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bronze_Age_hoards_in_Great_Britain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509542/Bus-driver-unearths-80-000-hoard-Bronze-Age-axe-heads-metal-detector.html


again, you can make pipe bombs from bronze.

>>31974970
Iron would be a better alternative, because it's extremely abundant. The easiest way to produce large amounts of it would be to build some primitive blast furnace. Cast iron also happens to be really good for casting, especially if you can add some silicium to the mix. Maybe through adding sand or whatever material you could find. Experimenting might be the key to it.

Once you can build a working blast furnace, maybe by injecting air with bellows if you can't reach the appropriate temperature, you can produce large amounts of iron quite effectively. Then all you do is build a large mold underground next to the blast furnace, and pop a hole into it so that the cast iron just fills the mold. With a good amount of experimenting on mold designs, cast iron compositions and so on, you should be able to build a functional canon.

Also, with some work on decarburization, maybe by some type of puddling or osmond process, you should be able to build steel or iron tools.

>>31974943
>also bronze small cannons

Basically a pipe bomb if your casting skills aren't up to snuff.

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>>31975311
So we have a magazine-fed, repeat-firing air-powered military rifle in the 1700's.

Which does not produce a smoke cloud or thundering explosion like other black powder rifles of the time ...essentially making it a suppressed sniper rifle. In the 1700's!

That is steampunk as FUCK!

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>>31975686
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

Thomas Jefferson approved this rifle!

>>31975260
You act like its hard to make a spring.

>>31975778
>You act like its hard to make a spring.
going from various gun magazines and recoil springs today, it is. making real spring steel and annealing, hardening and tempering it properly is quite a feat.

>>31974898
>>31974898
could maybe make a bronze cannon.

also copper sheathing for galleys and screw propulsion, eliminating the need for banks of oars (although not the rowers they are now turning a crankshaft) and freeing up the broadsides for guns

>>31975686
>That is steampunk as FUCK!
You are a faggot.

>>31975798
Uh huh. I can draw a spring on a homemade mandrel and heat treat it within 20 minutes as long as the furnace is warm.

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>>31975830
das great tell it to Sig, Kel Tec etc.

>>31975801
pic related. I wonder how much fast it could go, if at all.

>>31975901
you could probably add another shaft and screw, at least on something the size of a trireme

as for speed, perhaps 12 knots as a burst speed

>>31976822
not so sure, the transmission involved would probably weigh quite a bit

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>>31975901
>>31976822
>>31976958

Are we actually talking about how to create antiquity-style paddle-powered warships here?

>>31977595
>File: paddle_boat_13.jpg (218 KB, 1024x768)

too fragile for war.

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Something tells me that Leonardo da Vinci would have been right at home here on /k/.

bro just do what the palestinians do

get a battery of metal tubes filled with sugar/saltpeter, put summadat ureaic nitrate as a warhead

boom

hopefully boom over there and not boom where you're standing

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>>31977675
I was just about to write something like
"Where are you going to _just get some powdered sugar_ in antiquity?" My first idea was that it takes a fair bit of infrastructure to produce. Plantations and refining and shit.

But then I googled a bit.

"Sugar was found in Europe by the 1st century AD, but only as an imported medicine, and not as a food. The Greek physician Dioscorides in the 1st century (AD) described sugar in his medical treatise De Materia Medica, and Pliny the Elder, a 1st century (AD) Roman, described sugar in his Natural History: "Sugar is made in Arabia as well, but Indian sugar is better. It is a kind of honey found in cane, white as gum, and it crunches between the teeth. It comes in lumps the size of a hazelnut. Sugar is used only for medical purposes."

...so apparently you COULD just walk into a (well-equipped) bazaar and just ask if anyone had some sugar.... In the Jesus-and-caesar-augustus-and-Potius-Pilate -era. And they actually might have it!

huh. How about that.

>>31975686
It had about the same KE as a .45 ACP round too.

>>31977769
>>31975706
>>31975311

themoreyouknow.gif

>>31977769
You can make it from honey without having to import shit.

Of course, it's far more hygroscopic than regular ingredients.

You'd be better off using iron oxide and powdered hardwood charcoal.

>>31974898
Give me ten years in that scenario and i'll jump start an industrial revolution. This will include gun powder, bronze cannon (at least) soon to be replaced with iron, a new roman army quickly replaced by a new modern army (with tanks), Hydro-power to start being soon replaced with coal and possibly natural gas, properly designed bombs both for use with catapaults and other artillery soon followed with proper airplane delivery methods and a soon to be developed steam based navy (that will then be replaced by a proper modern navy).

They're medicine will be radically revolutionized to acknowledge the need for cleanliness and a goodly level of skill in the surgeons (promoted through universities). the sciences will be quickly introduced to the scientific method if they haven't properly developed that yet, and competence in mathematics will become a constant standard level of education.
mercantilism? fuck that, prep the ships for at least three months of travel then sail through the pillars of Hercules and follow the setting sun until you reach the other side (sorry new world, you're too valuable).

methods of properly irrigating crops will be quickly introduced (possibly using wind based pumps if human power is not quite plausible), simple concepts of genetic engineering crops (pick the best for replanting and cross pollinate based upon desired results ala Pascal) will quickly be introduced as well.


>Trireme?
I don't have time for that shit. hold on while I render this animal fat down into a cleansing medium. then take the waste product into a jar, launch it from the new trebuchet and shoot the damn thing with old style fire arrows. If that somehow doesn't work just shoot it with the damn cannon.


modern people possess more scientific knowledge then they realize. especially if they're college students that paid attention in chemistry, physics, mathematics, and history class.

gun powder: five parts sulfur, five parts charcoal, three parts saltpeter.

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>>31974898
Tiping point when similar tactics were BTFO by guns is considered to be
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto

>>31978153
>a goodly level of skill in the surgeons

are you a trained doctor? if not, you aren't likely to be better than a roman legion surgeon - they were excellent surgeons.

>saltpeter

deposits of it exist in the US but are very rare and small in europe.

Making steel. I'd be a goddamn king.

What if you accidentally yourself in the process?

How to make penicillin or some other antibiotic to fight the infection?

Wouldn't this medicine make you the richest man on earth?

>>31978258
simple cleanliness is far more of a breakthrough than you realize. I won't argue they had excellent surgeons, but forcing them to be clean to a near modern surgical level would immediately improve the life expectancy of everyone that sees a doctor.

germ theory itself is only about one hundred fifty years old at most. the concept of sterilizing surgeons tools wasn't even considered until just before the 1900's. the concept of a Vaccine was also from about this time. until that point it didn't matter how good a surgeon was, you were still more likely to die from a disease after the battle.

>>31978299
Oh man imagine JUST introducing vaccines to the classical era

>>31978153
>then take the waste product into a jar, launch it from the new trebuchet and shoot the damn thing with old style fire arrows. If that somehow doesn't work just shoot it with the damn cannon.
Curious, what is the waste product?

>>31978288
>How to make penicillin or some other antibiotic to fight the infection? Wouldn't this medicine make you the richest man on earth?

thats what I was thinking about. you'd basically kick start a population explosion by healing syphillis and all that....

>>31978299
when you get stabbed by a filthy sword or arrow, the surgeon's instruments sterility does very little to increase your surviveability- meanwhile, surgeons did keep their instruments clean, they kept them in a pot of boiling water even.

roman hygiene was legendary, some speculate it was the lead pipes they used that led to the demise of rome.

>>31978348
filthy form of nitro-glycerine.
fight club actually got that one correct.

>>31978258
On saltpeter,

You could use the French method since Europe does have plentiful potash deposits.

>>31975196
Romanes eunt domus!

>>31978427
but mostly you'd be piss dependant. which I guess isn't so bad, I doubt Rome would mind having a law that makes piss collection mandatory. you'd just carry your pissbucket to collection stations all over the city where they would be emptied.

>>31978582
no need. ancient rome already had a functioning form of plumbing. just set up a basic form of waste processing near the downriver end of the city.

also, see if it's possible to improve on their plumbing. some of it was still rather nasty.

>>31978628
mixing piss with shit and more water is a bad idea. getting the piss clean to collection facilities is better and don't forget that Rome had public restrooms anyway so piss collection could happen there. you'd just have to set up amphoras on every corner and it would most likely work great.

>>31978675
Cloth dyers in Rome already collected piss. No need for a new system at all in that regard

>>31978582
Piss is not a great source of nitrates. Chicken droppings are a much better source.

>>31978974
This.

The simplest strategy is to grant business licenses for people to buy up chickenshit, charcoal and wood ash in bulk, from individual households looking to supplement their income.

That way, the armory itself can assay random samples from bulk shipments and get a rough idea what the purity of the entire shipment is before they buy.

You're going to want to make the saltpeter on site so that you can make sure that nobody rips you off by adding flour or shit to the product.

>>31975265
It's always been expensive. Copper and tin aren't that common in the earth's crust.

That's why the Iron Age replace the Bronze Age.

>>31974898
Martini henry for everyone

>>31974898
Just build a high sided sailing ship.

Three of them held off the entire Ottoman navy for an afternoon. And they were even crewed by Italians.

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>>31974898
>If someone would have accidenttally travelled back in time
I hate when that happens, last week I had to club pic fucking related to death with a tire iron

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>>31974898

>>31978628
The easy thing then for hygiene would be to teach them how to build flush toilets. Siphons are simple machines that they could understand.

>>31979611
far too complicated if you consider all the pipes needed. clay pipes aren't PVC pipes. such a toilet would actually pose a health hazard because it can't be cleaned efficiently.

>>31979336
personally, pic related is my fav time travel szenario. Fucking the yanks with millions of AKs, Glocks, coms, NVGs, mortars and billions of rounds.

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>>31979693
forgot pic

>>31979708
What is this retarded shit

>>31974918
/thread.
>>31974898
Ship mounted trebuchets.
Extremely basic cannons (casting shit's not hard wen blacksmiths are around)
Seriously work on crossbow technology, and start manufacturing steam engines for boats.

>>31979743
>Ship mounted trebuchets.
you don't really get this weapon do you? thinking it could be useful against moving targets from a moving, unstable base. stupid.

>>31977801
So it tore men in half and destroyed engine blocks?

>>31979767
>destroyed engine blocks
45ACP is so slow and fat it will bounce off of your better stainless pots.

>>31978153
your gunpowder recipe is completely wrong
75%KNO3 15% Charcoal 10% sulfur

>>31975706
Fuck man, fuck going back to roman times to get them to build these.

I'm going to build one now. thats cool as fck.

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>>31974898
My guess would be it would be more productive to provide help in a greek city state's agricultural and industrial base. Get them to a point where they have a significant advantage in production over the other city states. Probably do that until people start listening to you seriously and then take power and implement more drastic changes in military organization and tactics.

I think all of that would have a longer and more powerful effect than giving hoplites a TOW missile to shoot invading triremes or teaching them how to build mines (which they might not even use because its not really honorable bro)

>>31976958
you could probably use wooden gears, maybe bronze or copper sheathed, and its probably not much heavier than the oars, and certainly more effective for the same mass

>>31977595
screw/propeller not paddle, paddles are vulnerable to battle damage, and take up a large chunk of the side which would be good space to mount weapons on.

also paddles are less efficient than screws

imagine a century with girandoni air rifles, explosive ballista's and steam trains to get around.

the roman empire would of been able to decimate any contenders.

then add high wall sail boats in there and no one would beat them at sea and they could navigate open waters.

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>>31981220
simplest version I could come up with. basically dudes in recumbent bike position.

>>31981350
>the roman empire would of been able to decimate any contenders.

they could do that already. rome died because of politics and degeneracy, not technological reasons. They should have stopped slavery for the most part (only for military purposes should it be allowed) and should have socialized the latifundia so that you'd basically get large numbers of farmers who work what's basically their land - you'd get the equivalent of working class people working jobs in production. they should have domesticated elephants as work animals though.

>>31981350
>girandoni air rifles
>500ft/sec
But this is a weak shit not far away from bow. Also extremely difficult to manufacture. You should not reinventing the wheel . Gunpowder.

>steam trains to get around.
Yeah this right way of thinking.

>>31981475
>not technological reasons.
Technological too. Their warfare technology provide to little off overmatch so big numbers of barbarians over BTFO them. Also horsefuckers actually had some military overmatch over Romans with their wide employment off cavalry. Oh wait, cataphracts, +1000 years to Empires life.

>>31981475
yeah, there strength wouldn't of been lowered anywhere near as much as they where against the barb's from up north. and they would of fcked over cav.

>>31981569
nope. barbs wanted to be roman. first thing barbs did when they took over anything built by romans is fight among each other over who would move in into the roman houses and barracks with central heating. just because occasionaly roman generals sucked and lost innawoods doesn't mean they wouldn't have annihilated barbs in open field battle for which the Legions were meant. mongol horseriders did pose a threat, which is why the chinese built the wall ffs.

>>31975260
But how will you make primers? Or are we going to attach a piece of flint to the bolt that sparks when the bolt gets close to the cartridge?

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>>31974898
>If someone would have accidenttally travelled back in time (..)

>>31978153
>Hydro-power to start being soon replaced with coal and possibly natural gas
Slow down there, water power is very useful, if you manage to make generators that opens up even more possibilities.

>>31981669
>But how will you make primers? Or are we going to attach a piece of flint to the bolt that sparks when the bolt gets close to the cartridge?


imagine an interrupted thread bolt action rifle being fed Minié ball type bullets with an open base that contain the powder and are sealed with a piece of cardboard containing mercury fulminate acting like a primer much like the Maynard tape primer. he bolt would have a strong spring which would smack the primer cardboard and fire the cartridge. pretty much caseless ammo.

>>31975656
>>31978259

Steel. Steel is surprisingly easy to bootstrap yourself into, most of the issue is knowledge and after bog iron and other easily accessible forms are used up, mining for it.

Once basic steel production is established, the bessemer process gives you access to large quantities of quality steel.

If you're back in the time where Triremes were becoming the dominant power, access to those decent quality steels will make you godlike. Early iron weapons were on par with Bronze, but you're leapfrogging past those, to designs similar to early medieval arms and armor, with cheaper, better quality steel.

Your troops are better armed, better armored, and far lighter and faster than anything with close to similar armor.

Also stirrups.

>>31981747
>the bessemer process
Requires very developed technological base.

>>31981687
Burgers are unaware that slavs wrote literally thousands books with A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court plot.

>>31981712
not generators at first. the beginning of the process of industrialization actually used the force of water to manipulate machinery. this was soon followed by steam power until that got replaced with oil based power sources.

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>>31974898
First of all, these posts are good reads:
>>31974970
>>31975656
>>31975801
>>31975830
>>31977675
>>31978288
>>31979053
>>31980935
>>31981747

Adding on to what they said, let me state that the advances in metallurgy would only really be useful with machine tools. Knowing how to build a lathe with minimal runout is the only thing that makes any of this talk of cannons even remotely useful. Otherwise you're stuck with retarded cast cannons that had an absurd tendency to explode. By the way, unless you know how to cast *anything* then you're going to be seen as a wasteful crackpot or worse.

Comments about improving existing weapons are spot on. Developing the Roman legionary centuries before it's predecessors came about would make you some type of wizard-king. Knowing about military fortifications, construction devices, and most of all organization techniques would put you pretty far ahead too. Those machine tools I talked about? Basic steam engines. Piston cylinders gave people shit for about a century and a half, you could spend a couple years perfecting it.

Oh, and the metric system. Not the one Napoleon came up with, the one that's been standardized today because it's been made to play nice with the natural world. That will put you so much further ahead, and while we're on that subject leave a legacy. Leave a master plan for your successors, just write shit down so in a thousand years your reich will be looking to the stars. If you want a monarchy or theocracy, make sure the common folk have upward social and economic mobility: not having that destroys empires. Socialize medicine and education, and centralize the education system. Ideally you would have a Venetian or Swiss style of conscription with a small standing army, combined with that and your superior engineering and tactics your nation will be invincible.

>>31979732
You hold your tongue you cocksucking faggot, that anon referenced one of the best alternate history authors ever. Look him up.

>>31981747
>Bessemer process
>good quality steel

No, it's only about as good as wrought iron.

Blowing air into molten metal introduces nitrogen impurities which make it more brittle.

For high quality steel, you want to use the open hearth process, which shouldn't be that hard once you understand oxidation.

You might want a good quality recuperator to keep temperature and thermal efficiency up.

>>31982569
Oh and I forgot, dress like the coolest motherfucker anyone has ever seen. If you have a stab-resistant vest I suggest you bring it, and if you know some basic chemistry don't hesitate to make some smoke bombs and flashbangs to scare the shit out of people if they doubt your power. Wrist-mounted muzzle loader concealed in your Gandalf/Pope/God-Emperor robe/armor/whatever to strike down unruly motherfuckers or assassins/bandits.

There's a reason why ancient burial sites had the most gaudiest shit, it's because everyone in the ancient world was like modern-day hoodrats in that bling was for kangs. Look the part, act the part, and people will think you're actually some demigod or wielder of incredible power.

>>31978153
>They're medicine
Nigger, you can't even spell right, let alone "jump start an industrial revolution"

>>31978299
>germ theory itself is only about one hundred fifty years old at most.
Wrong, just blatantly so.

>>31978368
And to add to this, the Romans *did* have germ theory.

"...there are bred certain minute creatures which cannot be seen by the eyes, which float in the air and enter the body through the mouth and nose and there cause serious diseases."

-Marcus Terrentius Varro, c. 120 BCE

>>31981955
I would like the names of these books.

For science.

>Then what would be the most effective way to combat trireme-like warships?
Amass a large amount of pots of pitch. Wait until they're in harbour, then fill the harbour up with pitch and set it alight. Probably end up burning down their city too.

Not really something you need modern knowledge for, to be honest.

If you can't pour the pitch in, you could always pack small cargo ships with pitch and suicide bomb the ships. I guess that's more about knowledge of current affairs than science though.

>>31982786
Wasn't the humor theory of Medicine the default from the Greeks until the microscope.

>>31982830
Through the 19th century, yes. But just because the Greeks were retarded, doesn't mean everyone else was. To be fair, germ theory was poorly understand in the time frame I gave, but it did exist and was a factor.

Still though, fucking Greeks.

>>31982858
To be fair, without any proof or evidence or anything to really base it on, "tiny insect things" is just as stupid as "bad air" or any other explanation.

>>31974898
Make blackpowder (All materials readily available at the time that trireme were dominant)
Make primitive blackpowder bombs by taking claypot, filling with bp, insert fuse made from wick soaked in inflammable liquid and seal with pitch

fire from deck mounted catapult/have men stab at ship with bomb tipped spears

arguably a far more useful use of your future knowledge would be in the agricultural, transportation and logistical sectors

Imagine how radically you would increase a classical era civilizations military power by providing them the knowledge to create stirrups etc, or make crude bicycles and windmills

>>31975341
Anon, you are a retard. Records of pitch being used as a sealant go back 2500 years reliably. Unreliable records go back further than that.

>>31978389
You're fucking clueless, and what Fight Club communicated of the process was a garbled mess.

Fats are composed primarily of triglycerides, also known as glycerol esters of long-chain carboxylic acids.
Like most esters, fats can be cleaves with a base (alkali hydroxides most common), producing the alkali salt of the acid and a separate layer of glycerol.
The former is what you'd call soap.

In order to get nitroglycerin, you'd add this glycerol to a nitrating mixture (strongly acidic solution of nitrates).
Said reaction is highly exothermic, and can easily result in spontaneous ignition of the mixture.

>>31974898
>Then what would be the most effective way to combat trireme-like warships?
Copper sheathing and sails.

That alone fucks triremes in the ass. Not only are you way the fuck faster, your endurance and durability are higher as well.

Basic cannons are relatively easy, but fuck all these plebs with gunpowder, use gun cotton ((sulfuric acid + nitric acid + cotton/wood fibers/starch) + drying) and make shells.

Cannons too weak? Weld some bands to them (Make them red hot and slip over the barrels, as they cool they'll fuse to the barrel).

Introduce trig and you now have basic artillery.

Congratulations, you have the single most powerful military with three simple advancements.

Oh, and an added bonus. The copper sheathing? Well as I said, fast af and durable af. You now have the means to become the preeminent economic power, and that's far better than any military. After all, money wins wars, and who'd want to fuck with the country controlling all trade?

Medicine? Just do Penicillin. Find some moldy food, look for long stalks with bulbous fingers (microscope required), culture that and heat it. Have fun, you just made antibiotics. Be prepared for the inevitable population boom.

Agriculture? Go with crop rotation, drip irrigation, and basic breeding. Fantastic, you just made food cheaper, faster, larger, more nutritious, and far more abundant. Again, prepare for the population boom. Feeling fancy? Toss in fertilizer.

There's so many other basic things, but really, don't do any of these things. You'll just fuck everything up. If you do somehow end up back in time, just live an unobtrusive life if possible. It takes time for everything to work out right, and things have worked out well enough. Chances are all of us would just fuck shit up by accident anyway.

>lol England/France in the hundred years war, have some hydrogen bombs.

>>31974898
>>31974918
Available here for free (legit, thanks US copyright laws): http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/86

>>31974898
You could do literally nothing, unless you have CONSIDERABLE knowledge of shipbuilding and sailing techniques.

Galleys of the time are utterly incapable of being cannon platforms.

You'd have a much stronger impact by doing thins like introducing the crossbow, the ability to make steel consistently, or the fucking compass.

>>31981569
You have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about.

>>31981658
And neither do you.

>>31983025
Everyone forgets the ice bath, even the anarchists cookbook.

Ice Ice Ice if you're trying to nitrate glycerin.

>>31978153
Good luck with your gunpowder.

Proper black powder started out as equal thirds, but in practice, half each saltpeter and charcoal with just a few percent sulfur (to moderate the combustion) proved optimal.

Also, while I've never made the stuff, one thing I've learned from the interwebs is that the exact proportions are far, far less important than the mixing process, which has to be done with the right amount of water (too little, the components won't mix, too much, and you have wet powder), mixed using the correct procedure, and can fizzle on use or blow up in your face if you get it wrong.

Tanks in a decade? Hah! "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Without the metallurgy of the iron and steel ages, you'll have trouble getting the components to do the things you want to do. Without the mathematics skill as a base, you'll have to teach people everything from scratch, requiring years of tutelage.

And, of course, that's assuming that you can Connecticut Yankee your way into getting people to listen to your heretical and obviously insane claims in the first place.

Now, if you had an entire community of period reenactors that came with you, preferably with their period equipment, then you might be able to accomplish a lot in a decade... but internal combustion? Yeah, right.

>>31979667
All you really have to invent is the humble S-bend, using whatever they can make it out of.

It's amazing that such a simple, yet profound technology could have been invented by the Greeks or Romans, but wasn't conceived until the early Industrial Age.

>>31974955
Nobody wants to watch Martin Lawrence anon

>>31981356
Actually, split that up into 2 shafts turning 2 propellers. That reduces the mechanical complexity, and also gives the helmsman the ability to use differential power to turn the boat by relaying simple commands.

>>31983643
>also gives the helmsman the ability to use differential power to turn the boat by relaying simple commands.


>FASTER YOU FUCKS
>NO NOT THAT WAY
>DO YOU NIGGERS NOT SPEAK ENGLISH
>FUCK

Rudder is masterrace my boy, at least at those levels of torque.

>>31981740
That sounds like the Volcanic Rocket Ball, which was pretty much a failure.

>>31982204
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelton_wheel

harness the power of a river to the maximum possible effect, using period-available technology.

>>31982888
Inflammable means flammable?
>What a country

>>31974898
Wooden Cannons.

>>31983839
I've done this, it didn't go well.

>Have access to way too much machinery
>Cutting down a fucking huge tree
>Hey lets make a cannon
>cut it about in half
>auger out the middle
>go to store and buy shitloads of powder, get weird looks
>We have some massive ball bearings around, use those as cannon balls
>Pack in powder
>pack in cannonball
>light
>BOOOM
>tree is intact, ball bearing is fucking gone
>AWESOME USE MORE POWDER
>watching from "safe" distance
>BOOOOOOOOOM
>EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>huge splinter penetrates clothing and breaks skin
>tree is gone
>almost died

The groundwork is already laid boys, with some actual measurement we could make this work.

>>31983874
You're supposed to reinforce the cannon with shitty bronze or iron rings.

>>31983887
Literally everyone involved was drunk the whole time, nobody consulted wikipedia on how you are "supposed" to fuck around with explosives and logging equipment.

>>31983916
You were talking about measurements required to make this work. I was saying it already works if done this way.

>>31979667
This dipshit thinks flush toilets weren't around before pvc

>>31983874
>>31983916
>>31983887
>>31983949
You don't need metal to make it work. Get some friends, put the barrel in a pair of U-shaped blocks, and have a guy keep a rope taut while you and the other guy wind it around the barrel.

Flexible adhesive greatly helps, coating the barrel and the rope in it and letting it cure gives you something usable. Honestly you'll need either some strong dudes or mechanical assistance to keep the rope tight and turn the barrel, but this is how a lot of wooden cannons were made.

>>31978153
Jesus Christ this post is cringe

>>31983683
Well, yes, that should be obvious--differential steering is intended to AID a rudder, not REPLACE it. Nobody does that.

How about designing boats that carry enough to storm the trireme as soon as you are rammed. Use the fact they WILL ram you to your advantage to turn the table.

Alternatively... hurr durr muh gunpowder. Have any of you here actually made gunpowder from scratch? I have, and to go from the raw ingredients to an actual weapon is a huge step.

>>31983798
They both mean "it burns".

It has something to do with two similar words deriving from the same latin root, that came into use in two different locations, then were introduced back together. Drifts in language get wonky sometimes.

>>31983535
I have made black powder since i was 13, as long as u are as retarded or less than, as a 13 year old u wont fuck up

>>31984032
>Nobody does that.
Like every modern ferry ever does.

>>31974898
How about a ballista throwing rugby-sized clay pots with wooden fins "painted" in pitch and lit just prior to firing, and filled with a mixture of naptha and ground-up soap flakes?

Those should all be available in the period, right? Ballistae were expensive, of course, but far less so than a trireme.

Also, if you can work out the pedal/screw idea, you can outmaneuver most ships of the day.

>>31983535
There's even the fact that the charcoal from some wood is better than other for gunpowder; I can't remember what kind it is but there's one that creates microscopic 'pockets' on the surface of the wood for the saltpeter and sulfur to collect in.

>>31984058
With no rudder?

>>31984089
Have you never been on a ferry?
Tugboats are the same.

Once you have that much TORX it literally doesn't matter, a rudder would just impeded your ability to do tiny turns in harbors, which is what both of those things do.

>>31981928
>Requires very developed technological base.

It really doesn't. The hardest part is the refractory lining, and that's not that hard.

>>31982649
> only about as good as wrought iron.

Its good quality compared to early steel and is better than wrought though admittedly not by much, it's also very cheap to produce compared to other methods and can be used as a finery process for further production.

>open hearth process
The problem with open hearth is the necessity for regenerative preheating. How do you pump exhaust that hot using Bronze Age technologies?

Also one of its primary advantages is allowing chemical analysis during the melt to allow you to precisely time it. Which isn't really an advantage when you don't have the tech base to perform that analysis.

>>31983172
>Agriculture? Go with crop rotation, drip irrigation, and basic breeding.
Don't forget to account for salt build up due to irrigation depending on your location and water source. Fucked Uruk, fucked babylonians, fucked egyptians and might fuck you.

>>31981747
I tried to keep it simple because you'd be talking to bronze age people, and many technologies are dependent from others.

It's just like producing aluminium through electrolysis. The process is relatively simple, but you would need to build something capable of providing enough power, as well as keeping the alumina and salt mix at high temperature for a long time. It would be easier chemically but still a waste of resources.

Documenting that shit for them would be nice though. Also, you might be able to produce copper from more varied sources, since there's a whole list of ores that have to be smelted in varied ways.

>>31982569
This too. If you can provide enough technology and guidelines for the future, you might make a ridiculously powerful Empire. The difficulty relies in building a realistic civilization and not making something that will crumble like Rome.

Also one overlooked thing is that if you could bring some objects from our time, the best things would be seeds or bulbs for our modern plants. Imagine bringing potatoes, modern wheat (GMO is even better), corn, tomatoes and so on. Then you add modern knowledge about fields and maybe with some work you can produce ammonia (might be too difficult at first, but leaving the information available for later on). After that you can pretty much change the entire society, freeing jobs for other things, reducing the risk of famine, the land you have to keep under control and so on. The advantage is massive.

>>31975901
Your issue would be sealing the turning shaft with available materials.

>>31984523
Would it be possible to have the shaft connect to gearing that moves the exit point up above the waterline, with the screw on a long shaft that gets lowered into the water, like with early dual-propulsion steam/sail ships? Or would that be even harder and more error-prone than a seal?

>>31984498
Some asshole tried to write down everything pertinent in the (then) center of intellectual civilization, and the fuckin time feds burned it down.

>>31984543
Then you would throw off your CG by having a fuckton of rowers above the waterline

>>31984498
I was agreeing with you in >>31981747

>>31979155
My understanding was the collapse of the Classical empires that was the reason for the transition. The constituent metals for hard bronze alloys did not arise in the same locations, so the loss easily accessible trade led to difficulty in consistently sourcing the required metals. Is that wrong?

>>31974898
On the main topic, I wonder how hard it would be to invent forms of communication. One of Rome's great achievements was the Cursus publicus. Use roads and waystations where messengers could change out horses, meaning that they could ride almost continuously. Deliver messages at a speed of up to 60 miles a day almost anywhere in the Empire.

Semaphore Towers could do that faster but require constant manning. Assuming you can build batteries and get crystals, a spark gap generator and a foxhole radio might even allow morse code radio. Being able to communicate with your troops instantly and over long distances is huge. Let any decent military commander dominate the strategic battlefield.

>>31984665
Don't need crystals. An oxidized copper coin will work if you're only using a simple on off signal.

>>31984665
Heliographs would be a nice portable communication technology

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Might i humbly suggest to you anons S.M. Stirlings novel Dies the fire?

In a nutshell, the worst possible Happening Happens, all forms of higher technology are rendered inert by unknown forces and the people if the pacific northwest are forced to rely on their wits and ingenuity to survive in a modern world that was kicked in the balls and had all of its toys stolen.

One of my favorite book series and actually is where i started looking at prepping seriously, even if only for severe weather or power outages.

>>31984837
It bothered me that basic chemical reactions (some necessary for life) didnt work.

>>31982816
http://onlyfantasy.net/load/popadancy_nashi_tam/11-1

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>>31984410
>It really doesn't. The hardest part is the refractory lining, and that's not that hard.
Lets see. Converter itself is made of steel/iron. Are you aware that maximum size of iron piece produced by bloomer process is 5 kg give or take? Have fun hammer forge pic from 3 kg pieces. Process itself requires high volume of compressed air blow. My quick calculation estimate power requirement for compressor as 800 hp, gotta invent and perfect steam engine first.

>>31984837
>File: dies-fire-dies-fire.jpg (109 KB, 719x504)
explain more pls!

>>31983643

I beleive it would add weight and cost though, the amount of bronze required for the shaft would be significant in the first blace.

I live less than 15 miles away from Europe's finest steel deposits until the modern times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noric_steel


Making steel isn't that hard but convinving a workforce to believe in you without any proof is.

>>31978288
>>31978368

I was thinkering a bit with the idea about how to make penicillin and came to the conclusion that it would be feasible; all the required tech was mostly present for beer brewing. you would use cow milk as a substrate. question is, would homebrew penicillin not rather be a curse in the log run becaue you'd be spreading low dose contamination all over allowing for bacs to adopt and become immune. there is nothing worse than low dose, short time antibiotic usage.

>>31983504
>Ice Ice Ice if you're trying to nitrate glycerin
If you're trying to nitrate anything, you mean.
Unless it's for the purposes of demonstrating the dangers of runaway reactions.

>>31981669
black powder is impact sensitive too

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>>31983709
>That sounds like the Volcanic Rocket Ball, which was pretty much a failure.

it sounds like it yes but it would not be a faiilure. VRB had miniscule amounts of powder while my projectile would be a steel pipe, with one end closed, a copper jacket and and maybe some lead inside at thef ront to stabilze it.

>>31983535
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wW5KR1pDxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iJZjw8k40

>>31984410
Build recuperators, not regenerators.

That way you only have to pump the intake air, and you don't have to switch columns.

>>31975830
OK, now make flat and coil springs with technology commonly available in 200 BC. GO!

You'll probably have a difficult time. Among others, you'll face two problems: scarcity of materials and crude production processes. At that point in time, you would have had mediocre iron age forges. Copper and tin especially were scarce. Iron was more plentiful, but a lot of iron ore was low quality and expertise to refine it developed slowly. Even so, they hadn't discovered all of the additives we use to make alloys today; basically, most steel back then was just carbon steel with whatever trace impurities were left.

So we're talking about production that would be far shittier than anything the 11th or 13th century could put out, let alone the early renaissance.

>>31982569
The notion that one could jump through epochs of tech in a bound seems ludicrous on its face though. Even if you had very detailed knowledge of modern engineering and chemistry, I would be surprised if you could elevate Rome, a Germanic tribe, Carthage, Persia, etc. above the renaissance. That alone would be very impressive and give them a massive edge, but it bears keeping in mind that you would be working in that world with the materials available to you, redesigning everything from the ground up. Invariably some of your designs would be less than optimal, misremembered, etc., and guys down the line would either have to improve on them or scrap them wholesale.

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/k/

...Where I learn about drip irrigation, S-curves in plumbing, the Bessemer process, and industrial-scale piss collecting in ancient Rome.

...magical place.

>>31985616
You are aware that the only reason why it's made out of iron is it's cheaper, right? Not because it's an inherent part of the design, right? Nobody made them out of cast brass because iron was both available and way, way lighter. I'm pretty sure you could make a baby one out of wood if the refractory was exceptionally impressive.
>800 hp, therefore steam engine
Your calculation is dumb and your conclusion is doubly so.

>>31987458
>The notion that one could jump through epochs of tech in a bound seems ludicrous on its face though.
Of course it does, but closer examination of what technology is part of that leap reveals that it isn't. That transition between copper to iron to steel was centuries and centuries of innovation, skipping right to steel would yank up everything touching it. What followed the Renaissance was an era almost unlimited by means because a lot of the capabilities they had then we still have today; it's just physically easier to do them. They had to overcome hurdles in materials science which is why the fields of chemistry, metallurgy, medicine, and mechanical engineering exploded outward at an incredible pace.

Oh, and you can actually make flat and coil springs with technology available in 200 BC. I almost didn't reply to your post because you opened up with that. I've refined taconite with a backyard furnace and home-built jaw crusher, it's probably one of the worst ores out there. I have hands-on experience in historical steel production and I do know more than a thing or two about mines. I'm telling you this can actually be done.

>>31987795
It is a pretty fun thread, isn't it?

>>31985616
yeah you know jack shit about metal smelting the maximum size from the bloomer proccess is not 5kg in some of the later blooms the amount of iron made per bloom was as high as 300 kg.

>>31987458
>with technology commonly available in 200 BC

The amount of technology available is going to change in a fucking hurry.

>>31987912
>You are aware that the only reason why it's made out of iron is it's cheaper, right?
Because it has has high strength and heat resistance.

>I'm pretty sure you could make a baby one out of wood if the refractory was exceptionally impressive.
"Impressive" means thick, thick means size and weight, and this device needs to be hanged on bearings an tipped during operation.

>Your calculation is dumb and your conclusion is doubly so.
Do it yourself if you don't believe me. 500 m3 per minute at 0.300 MPa is not something you can supply with bellows.

>>31988548
You could use the same basic blower design that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVV4xeWBIxE

does but with a much larger blower

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>>31988564

>>31988548
You said horsepower, and then brought up the absolute necessity of a "perfect" steam engine. Yet human and literal horse power is quite capable of doing the job, get enough men turning cranks and you'll get 800hp just fine.

Oh, and the iron? Pick either heat resistance or strength, you can't have both at the same time.

>>31988589
Would that not work?

I'm no expert here.

>>31988591
>Yet human and literal horse power is quite capable of doing the job, get enough men turning cranks and you'll get 800hp just fine.
Well horse power is literally it says on the box. It would need 800 horses working on single shaft. How this would even looks like?

>>31988759
You could build a giant-ass waterwheel.

But realistically, you're going to use ceramic forges rather than metal ones for the first couple production batches at least.

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>>31981356
all I can see is two weird dudes facing off

>>31985846
In the first 3 books, it isnt explained simply because everyone is either fight to survive or fighting each other.

Basically a global EMP event that also renders nearly all forms of higher technology inert. Even high pressure air refuses to work, no internal combustion, reactors simmer below any useful level, even gunpowder refuses to work properly, but all biological processes neccesary for life still function.

We basically get dropkicked to the 12th century.

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>>31988759
>Well horse power is literally it says on the box.
lmao no it isn't, not even close. Do you think my tiny chainsaw puts out an equal amount of work as a 2100lb Clydesdale?

Get the fuck out of here dude, go do some reading.

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>>31989377
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

>>31989489
And? Yes, I know what horsepower is, but you're misunderstanding that horsepower is a measurement of the rate of work done when applied with force. You're also misunderstanding that the "calculations" done are rather arbitrary assumptions and won't reflect real-world situation which is my original point.

>not inventing paper from wood pulp first

>>31991672
don't forget the compass and gunpowder too.

>>31989489
>We still use this unit of measurement to this day

For fucks sake