When it comes to rifle calibre wars on this board it's usually

>>31966382
it's actually like 80% of the time .40 vs anything else because .40 a shit and owners feel they need to justify it

5.45 tends to tumble, 5.56 tends to fragment

>>31966382
5.56
>Negligibly heavier ammo
>M193 fragments within about 250yd from 20" barrel
>M855 fragments even less reliably

5.45
>Mags generally a little bit heavier
>7N6 tumbles reliably at just about any range
>7N10 performs similarly
>Shorter casing makes for easier ejection
>7N6 penetrates better than M193
>7N10 penetrates better than M855
>Slightly less recoil impulse

I believe 5.45x39 to be better than 5.56x45 in almost every single way, and I also think the AK-74M is on the same level as the M4A1 in most regards, including accuracy. I believe the AK-12 to be as good or superior to the M4A1 in all ways except possibly weight, and it is not much heavier.

>>31966428
How does 5.45 perform is shorter carbine barrels?

>>31966428
Makes sense then that the Russians replaced the 7.62 with 5.45.
I mean the 7.62 is a great round but for large scale military logistical reasons it's justified.
>>31966442
Also interested in knowing this!

>>31966442
I wager it'll perform better in a short carbine barrel than 5.56.

>>31966459
Yeah, I love 7.62x39 in spite of the M43's extreme tendency to through-and-through the target, but 5.45 is capable of producing more devastating wounds due to its reliable tumbling, as well as provides good better penetration than 5.56, and also gives 5.56-like flat trajectory. The M4A1 might have better sights than an AK-74M, but with a capable shooter behind both, I believe the difference in accuracy would be negligible at best. The M16A4 however with its 20" barrel, I think that's where a difference in accuracy might become noticeable, but only once you go get to pretty far distances like 400m+

I believe 7.62x39 to be a superior LMG cartridge than 5.56/5.45 though.

>55gr M193 5.56 from 20" barrel
>About 3100 ft/s from muzzle
>About 1200 ft/s at 600m

>123gr M43 7.62x39 from 16.3" barrel
>About 2350 ft/s from muzzle
>About 950 ft/s at 600m

>55gr .22 cal at 1200 ft/s
>123gr .30 cal at 950 ft/s

The .30 cal is obviously going to be retaining more energy and be more devastating, and this is with a 16.3" barrel. From an LMG barrel over 20", the velocity of both bullet will likely be the same at that distance or the 7.62x39 might actually be going a tad faster. The bullet drop will still be MUCH worse, but if the gunner can estimate the distance well, set the sights properly, and start sending out a steady stream of 7.62x39 in semi-auto, any potential hits at 600m will be capable of penetrating better a well as providing larger wounds.

I don't know much about the Yugo's spin on 7.62x39. What was it called, M67? How's it perform differently than M43? More accurate with more tendency to tumble? Perhaps a lighter bullet than 123gr to give a flatter trajectory? Larger steel core to provide said lighter bullet as well as with better penetration? Perhaps steel in the front and lead in the back to make it back-heavy so as to more quickly cause tumbling? What's the deal?

>>31966525
The problem with 7.62 isn't the power, it's the range. It has rainbow trajectory and past 200 yards you have to make some heavy ass compensation.

>>31966583
That's why they created adjustable sights, and the longer barrel of an LMG would improve the trajectory. M67 might further improve it.

>>31966428
>7N6 penetrates better than M193
You know how I know you don't know anything and are just regurgitating internet shit?
It sure as shit isn't steel you could be talking about, m193 outdoes steel cored 54r.
So what does it penetrate better?

>>31966428
Fuck off Ivan.

>>31966607
Outdoes 54r on actual hard steel anyway, not as sure on soft garbage steel. I don't shoot that.
I know even lead core 545 craters deeper than 762x39 on softer steel though.

>>31966619
Could you provide a reasonable argument rather than just accusing someone of being a Vatnik? Judging from your response it seems to me you disagree with his argument.

Im in the market for an AK47 and have been debating between 7.62 or 5.45. Im leaning towards 5.45, I have never shot it but from my research it proves to a sick cartridge.

>>31966428

You forgot the fact that 5.45 is a tapered cartridge, making extraction easier.

>>31966664
5.45 mags are not as plentiful and 2-3x the cost of 7.62 mags. Ammo is pretty much online sales only, most stores don't stock it anymore unlike 7.62. However, it always depends on where you live and what the market is like in your area