It's mindboggling to think how many french and germans died

>>31956376
I don't think its really hate I just think its underestimating machineguns and artillery.

>>31956376
They all were professional solders and knew what was coming and what had to be done.
By the WW2 came around all nations were left to conscript and acquire anyone and everyone to fight for the country and thats where the real sadness begins.

>>31956416
>solders
>soldiers*

>>31956416
>They all were professional solders
England was the only one with a fully professional army and even they changed that after time went on.

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>hate
I wouldn't call incompetence hate.

>>31956416
this

>know about the horrors of war from ww1
>never the less fight fanatically on the eastern front
>neither side is willing to give up until they are all but exterminated

fucking christ.

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>>31956376
>The amount of HATE someone would have to have to kill all those people.

There was little hate... Most of these people were farmers and factory workers.

What is truly amazing is that people went where they were told. Especially the germans since they were the aggressors. And especially over a rather shitty reason.

Either way, it was a slow creeping process to get the masses ready for conflict.

>>31956460
>Especially the germans since they were the aggressors. And especially over a rather shitty reason.

Yes alliance case - a rather shitty reason.

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>>31956511
Serbia was a mistake

>>31956376
read up a little on war and peace
its all a jolly if you ain't on the front line

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>>31956511
>Yes alliance case - a rather shitty reason.

They went to war over the fact another country went to war over the fact that he got assassinated in a city where he was told ahead of time that they tried to assassinate him.

It was his own stupid fault. And frankly it was nothing but an excuse to go to war. So yes. The Central Powers are the aggressors and the Entente were the defenders.

>>31956552
>Ferdinand caused ww1
I don't think you understand the difference between the spark and the powder keg.

>>31956376

Not really hate, OP. Things like the christmas truce happened, after all. Most of the deaths were from artillery, which is pretty dispassionate. We really can't fully understand the mentality of the combatants of WW1 and what drove them to do what they did for so long.

Now the eastern front of WW2, on the other hand. That was some fucked up hateful shit.

>>31956555

What part of "excuse" did you miss in my post?

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>>31956552
>>31956555
Actually, modern historians believe it to be more of an "accident"

>>31956376
That's because arabs (and pretty much anyone ego isn't white desu) are utterly shit at warfare

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>>31956552
>And frankly it was nothing but an excuse to go to war.

Others don´t need these excuses.

>>31956460
>GERMANS SARTED THE WAR GUIS
Serbia did.

>>31956578
Austria did.

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>>31956583
Princip and the black hand did

>>31956460
This guy fought in 1870-1 and then 40 years later or so... what sort of life is this?

>>31956585
Austria-Hungary chimped out over the July ultimatum. They couldn't just be happy with killing the assassin. They wanted the world to go to war over it.

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>>31956585
the sandwich shop on Ferdinand's path did

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>>31956376

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>>31956578

Germans turned it into a World War.

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>>31956593
Austria-Hungary was a complete disaster, that's right. Russia and the whole Balkan to, germany and england should have tried to prevent this shit

>>31956416
Are you retarded?

The only army with pros was the british one and early 1915 they had to start conscripting.

France and Germany conscripted long before the war

The whole WW1 was fought between drafted eurosoldiers. Go read a fucking book, "All quiet on the western front" for example. It literally tells the story of how they got drafted

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>>31956608
They deserve what they got. America should have been neutral.

>>31956603
No, that would be Russia.

>>31956609
Was practically hardcore natural selection in the later war years, for every dead "veteran" there were 10 dead recruits

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>>31956618
>No, that would be Russia.

Russia defended their ally.
Germany followed the aggressor into all out war.

>>31956424
Yup, the British started conscripting in 1916.

Actually no, there was no real "hatred".
There may have been some at first and throughout the war due to the propaganda painting the enemy as a "vile and evil individual that could not be considered as human".
But then it shifted to a sort of recent and then a simple fight for survival. Both sides quickly realized they were actually the same and had, more or less, the same background: farmers, factory workers, artisans; some with wives and kids, some fresh out of school, some too young to have been with a woman. People forced to join in order to fight in a war that did not concern them. Both sides quickly realized they were being sent to die by the thousands.

Sometimes the trenches were close to each-others, just a few meters away. Some of the French soldiers used to live in villages or towns that were not located behind german lines. Packs of letters would be thrown by french soldiers in the german trenches, cigarettes would get exchanged, they would sometime talk, etc...
There were numerous cases of Camaraderie that grew.

But when came the time to attack there was no pity, no remorse, no mercy.

The hatred isn't what helped, its the nationalism, which at the time was far stronger in Europe than everywhere else in the world then, and most of the world now.

Another factor was the contempt the officers had for the conscripts. They didn't have to go over the wire, and the groups were from different social spheres, so the upper class were ok with throwing waves of lower class men at the machine guns.

>>31956681
"They didn't have to go over the wire, and the groups were from different social spheres, so the upper class were ok with throwing waves of lower class men at the machine guns."

And men/troops were barely as valuable as ammos, shells, etc...
Throw enough men at the enemy and he will eventually run out of ammunition.

There was also a very old fashioned, out-of-date mentality based on bravery, courage, etc... War still had a very "romantic-vibe" (not "romantic" in the "romance" sense obviously, but the kind of description that could be found in short stories about heroes, etc...) attached to it. But that war was ugly, it was a literal meat-grinder full of mud, shit and decayed corpses.

>>31956376
>The amount of HATE someone would have to have to kill all those people.

implying there is less hate in 2016.

>>31956609
>Are you retarded?
Very likely
>The whole WW1 was fought between drafted eurosoldiers.
if you say so,i have nothing more to add on your autistic rant

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>>31956617
Meh, Europe would have gone full Balkan if the USA hadn't ended it

>>31956630
Germany went to war to defend their ally (but mostly themselves). Russia chose to start a war between great powers for shits and giggles.

>>31956566
(((accident)))

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>>31956376
From a book but who cares a nice quote

>>31956416
BEF was fully professional, they also sustained massive casualties after a couple years of war

>>31956593
>Serbia funding and supplying assasins
>Austria Hungary gives an ultimatum which serbia did not honour.
Muh evil austrians man

>>31956608
It was france that shitposted the entire conflict up.

>>31957052
France isn't supposed to do nothing while it's ally is about to break out into war, and it's rival warring neighbor was mobilizing on their border
Same with the bongs, what were they supposed to to, sit back while they broke their alliances?
It's serbias fault for chimping out at a pretty okay guy, it's autria hungarys fault for chimping out the way they did at serbia, it's russias fault for getting involved when it would obviously start a shitstorm, and it's germany's fault for being aggressive as fuck and having an autistic leader who couldn't help but slander and insult every neighbor he had in autistic fits of anger

>>31956681
Officers most certainly went over the top with their men, maybe not if you were a senior officer, but that young fresh faced lieutenant is about to see the same carnage as his men

>>31956696
It'd say it's because defense at that time just had the upper hand massively
It's not like they just walked into machine guns while walking in a straight line either, and shock tactics with a creeping barrage became popular

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>>31957097
>Officers most certainly went over the top with their men, maybe not if you were a senior officer, but that young fresh faced lieutenant is about to see the same carnage as his men

Lieutenants & captains always led by example when it came to charging the enemy lines.
Colonels frequently did as well, but it was not necessarily expected of them anymore.
Officers above colonels were not permitted to charge, but sometimes visited the front lines and commanded from there. Rarely for most, but some made it their way to raise morale, to show they were still soldiers not bureaucrats.

>>31957020
>Germany went to war to defend their ally (but mostly themselves). Russia chose to start a war between great powers for shits and giggles.

So they should have allowed their ally to be attacked over a murder by a renegade faction?

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>>31957052
>>31957072
Actually, at this time everybody was like "Yeah, fuck this shit politics, a war would be great, what could possibly go wrong lol"
Pretty autistic in general desu

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>>31957146

Every of the larger powers was so certain they were superior to the enemy and thought it would be over in a matter of weeks, maybe months. The lesser powers were dragged along for the ride.

>>31957146
That's grossly dumbing it down, and no, not everyone was a war hawk

>>31957128
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Serbia was a formal ally of Russia. Russia started a war between great powers in part because they considered all slavs to be their subjects, but mostly because they considered a war between great powers in Europe to be inevitable and wanted it to happen sooner rather than later, as the other powers were advancing in technology and industrialization (and therefore power) far faster than Russia.

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>>31957191
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Serbia was a formal ally of Russia.

As far as I know, Russia did not have a formal agreement with Serbia, but it was HEAVILY involved in Serbian politics. To the point of having enough pull to get the king to reinstate the Pašić government after first being dismissed. That's how deeply they were involved in Serbia.

Hence the Russians warned the Central Powers to keep hands off, but they were ignored because Austria was itching for a war and finally had an excuse. War ensued.

>>31956376
Its wasnt hate at all, it was arrogant and incompetent comanders who never saw the front line and never knew the gravity of the poor decisions they made.

>>31956590
Why is everyone blaming the populace? Working people aren't given a choice back in those days. You die at war or you get executed. Don't look at the past like you live like they did.

>>31956696
The English aristocracy's heirs were gutted in that war and basically ended it.

>>31957168
Yes, this
Whithout american intervention this would probably have been a war from 1914 to 1921 or even longer, the forces were pretty much at same level

>>31957182
Talking about the 5 main forces at least, Austria, Russia, Germany, France, England all were like "sure, why not"
And even get me started on Italy or the ottomans

>>31956593
>They couldn't just be happy with killing the assassin. They wanted the world to go to war over it.
No fucking shit. It's literally the equivalent of if some Paki killed Trump tomorrow, half of /k/ would be chomping to turn his entire country to glass.

>the other half would want to do it the old fashioned way

>>31957235
That! So much that!

The big problem is people, nowadays, are judging the past without considering how the perspectives were back then.
A bit like if we were saying that, back in the days, the crusaders were racists and bigoted and not open to multiculturalism.

>>31957216
The assassination of a crown prince is not a thing that can be ignored. The closest you can get for a republic would be if someone assassinated the vice president, a member of the president's family, the next president and a popular celebrity who've been in the public eye since childhood, all while taking a dump on the flag and mocking the national anthem.

WW1 was the high water mark of the imperial mindset, characterized by extreme nationalism and the desire to exert the power and influence of your country.

When they stopped to think about it I don't think they hated one another.

>>31956630
>error:dupliate file exists here

>>31956460
>germans were the aggressors

Sorry, but this hilariously anglocentric and false.

>>31956617
>They deserve what they got. America should have been neutral.
Are you an American, sir?

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>>31957324

He was warned by state actors. He went anyway and the assassination was not carried out by a state actor. Stop blaming Serbia.

Let's blame all of Dallas for JFK's assassination and carpet bomb it. The fuckers were in cahoots with Oswald!

>>31957366
>Germans were the aggressors
>Sorry, but this hilariously anglocentric and false.

Where exactly did you miss the fact the Germans attacked a NEUTRAL BUFFER STATE to wage their war? How the hell does that not make them an aggressor?
Any validity of their cause went out the fucking window when they did that.

>>31957365
Hard for tommy to hate hanz when he looks into his lifeless eyes and see's himself

>>31957324
Serbia however, was not formally involved with the Black Hand movement any more then the United States government is involved and responsible for the actions of ''moderate'' Syrian rebels. In fact, Serbia agreed to most of the Austro-Hungarian demands in the ultimatum, what really crossed the line was Austro-Hungarians demands for Serbia to fall under their legal system, effectively making it a colony and a puppet state, which is something no sovereign state would possibly do (of course, this is exactly what the Austro-Hungarian high command has been relying upon).

>>31957405
>the assassination was not carried out by a state actor
It was carried out by an organization possibly counting hundreds of Serbian military officers among its ranks. It might not have been a state actor, but that's mostly semantics.

>>31957430
>Serbia however, was not formally involved with the Black Hand
Key word being "formally".

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>>31956460

>>31956416
>>31956376

>The amount of HATE someone would have to
have to kill all those people

3/4 casualties were the result of artillery fire.

Anyway read the Notebooks of Corporal Louis Barthas. They was no hate, people were forced to fight. Actually Germans surrendered to the French in droves in chance they got, and the French did the same.

>>31956416

France and Germany both had conscription.

People from the country side were quite unhappy about the war btw, because they all got drafted right before harvesting season meaning they had to leave their women to do all the work.

>>31956376
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3H05OhVDI

>>31957457
Serbia did express interest in Black Hand, considering it was a Serbian interest group in the Austro-Hungarian territories, but it did not have direct contact with the organization itself and had no involvement with the Vidovdan assassination. One of the key figures in the assassination was Dragutin Dimitrijevic ''Apis'', which was also the key person in the assassination of the Serbian Obrenovic royal family (the guy had funny hobbies, I guess) and was also presumed to have planned a coup involving an assassination (real dedicated hobbies at that) on the regent Aleksandar Karadjorjevic, which is what he was ultimately executed for. Do you really think Serbian government would want direct involved with these guys?

>>31957366
>>31956578

>invade Belgium and France
>refuse any peace talk
>fight to the bitter end in foreign land

Yeah, yeah... germany did nothing wrong guys...

>>31956460
>Germans started WWI

Go to bed, France.

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>>31957510
>Go to bed, France.

Post doesn't say that. And it's 16:48 here in Belgium, so it's not my bed time yet. ;)

But go ahead, do explain to me how Germany wasn't an aggressor when it attacked an internationally recognized neutral state.

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>>31957541
Still butthurt over schlieffen plan?

>>31957541
"But go ahead, do explain to me how Germany wasn't an aggressor when it attacked an internationally recognized neutral state."

Well... just look at these hats.

I mean... who wouldn't attack a country where the army is wearing that??

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>>31956578
>Desperate to prove themselves to the whole world, the germans frantically searched for a reason to wage a war they could win. The death of some irrelevant prince in some backwater country with a vague connection to the "German" emperor was all they needed to start war.
>>He shares half a haplotype with us. Pure blooded German king.

>>31957541

You were in the way.

>>31957560

Rhineland ought to be French anyway.

>>31957560
Why would he be butthurt of a plan that failed and was stopped by a 3rd party?

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>>31957571
Pic related senpai

>>31957600
Nah, not really

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>>31957560
>Still butthurt over schlieffen plan?

Yes.

And even more pissed because the fuckers executed male populations of villages just because cars and carts blocked their advance on the streets.
Seriously, wtf did you expect when invading a fucking country? For everyone to roll over & play dead?

>>31957566
>Well... just look at these hats.

We had more spiffy hats than that.

>>31957623

>Hundreds of historians from the whole world including Germany agreed for the past hundred year that the German Empire was guilty for the catastrophic turn the war took.

>one single Australian author releases a book in time for the century celebration of the Great War with an unique twist. GERMANY TOTALLY DID NOTHIN' WRONG GUYS...

Yeah, I'm not buying it.

>>31957626
"We had more spiffy hats than that."

You had it coming then! Serve you right!

You and your silly hats.

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>>31957647
>You and your silly hats.

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>>31957644
Germany did shit wrong, but actually this whole "yeah, everything was Germany's fault, the rest dindu nothin" attitude is equally false. It's not groundless a revolutionary discovery

>>31957626
Ok, yes, that was pretty nasty actually
But it hadn't to do anything with the actual outbreak of the war

>>31957617
He explains it here >>31957626

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>>31957623

And yet, annexing the Rhineland was the obvious move after WW1. It's Woodrow Wilson and Lloyd George who pulled all their weight to stop France from doing it because they sure as hell didn't like the idea of a France with safe borders.

>>31957494

>People from the country side were quite unhappy about the war btw, because they all got drafted right before harvesting season meaning they had to leave their women to do all the work.

I imagine if Hillary or whomever just started a war with Russia, and all our niggers, spics and LGPT minorities would readily run off to kill White people, while ridiculing our native White population for their reluctance to fight their own kind once again.

>inb4 slavs aren't White

They're White enough I'd rather fight someone else.

>>31957272
>Whithout american intervention this would probably have been a war from 1914 to 1921 or even longer, the forces were pretty much at same level
Good god not this meme again.

Without America, Germany either: commits to the doomed-from-the-start spring offensives... and loses later as the allies are slower in building up the momentum to crush them.

- or Germany does not commit to an offensive, and starves. Pretty much literally. The blockade was absolutely killing them.

>>31957623
>Sleepwalkers
RRRRRRREEEEEEEEE
Clark does SO MUCH GOOD RESEARCH... his book is SO GREAT in SO MANY places...

... and then he takes a STEAMING SHIT all over it by literally omitting evidence pointing towards Germany.

He ignores the outcome of the German war council because it does not fit his narrative (or because of his shoddy work, either way it's bad). He takes a mistranslated (!) quote attributed to Poincare by his political opponent (!!) and uses it to show French culpability. He goes an extra ten miles whenever Germany is in question to avoid the "blame" but pounces on issues like newspaper articles in case of other powers.

I'm pretty sure he got called out on it a bit later and defended himself but I forget when and where.

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>>31957673
Thank god they didn't, this territory stealing between France and germany really ruined their diplomatic relations
Good that degaulle and adenauer got that fixed in the 50s

>>31957719
Actually things were looking pretty good with russia gone and Brest-Litowsk and Italy nearly crushed at the battle of carporetto. I'm not one of those "America won World War One" guys, but things would have been pretty shitty whithout the oversea reinforcements

But I guys we will never know who is in the right here, just speculate as much as we want

>>31957272

Yeah, no.

American intervention sped up the war but not by three years, not even one.

The Germans exhausted themselves in the Spring Offensive and that was a fully French and British affair once again.

The AEF most and only notable participation was in the Hundred Days Offensive and even then the bulk of the fighting was supported by France and Britain.

Anyway if anything you guys should have stayed home because people never talk about it but it's well known that it's american troops that brought the Influenza in Europe through Brest killing millions.

>>31957672
My people have died throughout wars, including my actual relatives, I don't harbor butthurt about actions in wars way before my time though

>>31957748
Yeah, Clark seems to have a pretty huge fetish for germany, but I think him going the extra mile for it was just because he had to dissprove an historical opinion that had been build up for nearly 100 years, so it is understandable to a certain point

>>31957793
Yes, 3 years is exaggerated, but you see were i'm coming from. War wouldn't have been over in November 1918 at least. And the british and french troops also were pretty weakened at this point.

And yes, the 1918 flu just fucked everything up even more

>>31957795
In this case i'm sorry that i assumed it whithout knowing the backgrounds

>>31957858
Oh dont apologize anon i'm just being an autistic dick about the use of the word butthurt

>>31956617
Fuck you

Why are you guys all forgetting the stab in the back done in the heart of Germany? the pacifists and communists betrayed their nation.

Germany was overall winning, not one enemy soldier had stepped 1 foot inside Germany, so do you really think a country would offer peace terms over a failed offensive?

>>31958326

Germany was spent. The army was down to its last resources. What do you think they'd gain from extending the war by starting a fighting retreat? It would only destroy more of Germany and Austria.

>>31958326

>Germany was overall winning

No it wasn't you fucking idiot...

They surrendered because their army was on the brink of collapse and then annihilation. They expected to get agreable terms by asking for peace.

The whole muh jews and communists forced us to lose is complete bullshit and always was. It's that kind of toxic propaganda that led to the rise of Hitler...

>>31958556
>It's that kind of toxic propaganda that led to the rise of Hitler...

Why are you here SJW? Reee get out

>>31958393
Germany was probably spent, but most countries were almost in the same situation.

>>31958578

Bouhou... :'( we can't win the war, we are getting our asses handed to us by Entente in the Vardar and Hundred Days offensives, our population is starving after years of blockade, we lose more soldiers from influenza than from bullets but we still could have made it if it wasn't for those damn communists back home!!! It's not our fault, it's the jews!!!

>>31958326
They were fucking starving to death because the royal navy blockaded the fuck out of them

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>>31958326
Go to bed, >>>/pol/

>>31958583
Yes
But the fresh American military weapons, vehicles and reinforcements fucked them completly over, together with the flu and, most importantly, the sailor revolution and later the revolution in general

>>31958583
Yeah man, the US and UK couldn't have lasted at all
Kys my man

>>31958393

More favorable position at the barganing table, or forcing the Allies to sue for peace instead of Germany.

They (Eric Ludendorff) knew by the end of Operation Michael during the Kaiserschlact that the war could no longer be won; they had put too much in Michael and its ability to achieve its strategic objectives. When it failed, so did Ludendorffs faith. Most staff then placed hope in Georgette, which failed as well.

ITT: faggots who don't know that everyone was itching for war in WWI and that no SINGLE nation can be completely blamed for the war.

Literally the only major modern war where you could say it was everyone else's fault except the US.

>>31958688
Literally what I said >>31956566
>>31957146
>>31957623

>>31958688
>it's another German war crimes denial thread

Thank god the Red Army turned you niggers into #REFUGEESWELCOME cumdumsters.

>>31958731
Gee, who is in denial actually
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

>>31958760

What a pathetic list, especially considering Germans crimes during WW2... I love how they list that French guerillas executed a bunch of SS officers. Didn't these motherfuckers wipe out a whole French village just because?

If anything I'm surprised the list is so short.

>>31958760
Nice red herring, brah.

Meanwhile, everyone with a rudimentary knowledge of history remembers the blank check, the rape of belgium, and the Zimmerman telegram.

The French were itching for war so badly that they moved all their soldiers ten miles back from the border.

>>31958760

Muh poor Germans getting a very slight taste of their own medicine.

You guys always were merciless scum from the get-go in both wars.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Paradis_massacre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhoudt_massacre

ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/alliances-and-wars/war-as-an-agent-of-transfer/sibylle-scheipers-prisoners-and-detainees-in-war

Same old story.

>>31958727

Except that book is garbage revisionism full of factual mistakes you've been fed already itt.

Why do you keep insisting?

>>31958326
You realise British scout vehicles reached Cologne right? The German Army was in full retreat and days/weeks away from total collapse.

>>31956416
>They all were professional solders

Are you fucking stupid? Both WWI and WWII were largely fought by conscripts, with the numbers initially boosted by volunteers.

>>31958688
Except you know, for all the people who weren't and tried to avert it. Pretending that Austria giving Serbia a deliberately unacceptable ultimatum because they believed Germany would back them against Russia did not ultimately cause the war is ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

>>31956376

That's the scary thing mate, it's not hate, it was just the ole' war machine running on it's own momentum.

>>31957673
>1866
Bloody Austrians !! We prussians did all the work and THEY want to rule in Denmark !!
And they even got most of our brothers siding with them !! We'll show them !!
>Proceed to quickly beat the shit of half of the german states and of Austria
>Unite half of Germany in the following celebrations

>1870
Ok, lads !! I know we have our differences but we are all Germans, here !! And we are great together !! We are strong !!
And then, there are these assholes who want !!
>point at the french and proceed to humiliate them
>Unite the rest of Germany in the following celebration

>1918
So... time to take on Russia !!
Sure, Bismark ain't there but whatever !!
We are even bigger and stronger than before.
>Whatdoyoumean "the frogs are mobilizing" ?
>Proceed the kick their amphibian buts
>But have to run around saving the austrians from Mother Russia
>British are coming in too but no worry : they only have a few thousands men.
>Can't get to Paris because WE lack the troops
>Because of the second front
>Guess we'll go with attrition. We got more men than the bongs and frenchs combined any way.
>Oh now what ?
>>Backstabbing Italians !!
>>Useless Ottomans
>>Mother Russia infinite supply of men
>Ok, let's send back the Lenine !!
>And now, to victory !!
>British tanks
>Americans coming by the hundred of thousands
>Austria still useless against fucking ITALY !!
We... we surrender.

>1939
Ok, last time didn't go so well but we were betrayed by the communists and the jews.
We took care of those so it should be fine.
>Rape Poland
>Rape France
>Rape Europe
>Soon, Britain, soon...
But first, time to take out Russia !!
>Rape Russia
>Mother Russia doesn't care.
>Mother Russia has infinite supply of men
>>And Russian winter
>>And Stalin's iron grip
>>And American trucks
>>And Russian tanks
>>So. Many. Tanks.
We... We surrender

>>31958882
The main difference being soldiers, during WW2, received what can be called an actual training. Depending on the countries of course, for instance soviet soldiers were not trained, but by the late stage of the war German soldiers (Hitler's Youth and Volksturm) were not either.
During WW1 there was a very rudimentary training, which was barely enough to be called "training".

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>>31959009

>WW1
>Over 17 million people were killed

>WW2
>Over 60 million people were killed


>German millennials' face when

>>31957033
2edgy4me

>>31956566
I don't see how you can call it an accident when literally the reason Germany went "fuck it" was because there was an understanding that a war was eventually going to happen, and if they put it off too long they would lose their strategic dominance early in the war.

>Germans
>people
They lost both world wars how can one country be this shit
At least they make pretty guns

>>31959978
>Germany
I think you meant "Russia".

>>31960160

Russia was like the China of its time, it was backward in many ways but its industrial capabilities were growing at an alarming rate.

Germany had to have a war with Russia before it caught up.

encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/science_and_technology_russian_empire

That's like middle school level of basic knowledge regarding this conflict though.

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>>31956376
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism

You teach an entire generation from their birth that something was stolen from them. Of course they will die in droves.

>>31957033

Right in the feels.

>>31959859

That's just about the direct opposite of edgy, you retard.

>>31960426
Bullshit. Russia was behind on technology and industry and needed the war to happen sooner rather than later, while their greater manpower could still beat the other European powers' tech advantage. Being decades behind in technology was no big deal earlier on in history, but Russia could see the importance of having the latest tech growing at an alarming rate and knew that they had to act soon. As it turns out, they acted too late and the better German use of radio, air power, artillery observers, etc. were more than enough to counter the greater numbers of the Russians. Fortunately for Russia, most of Germany's might was kept occupied elsewhere.

>>31957405

I dont know why I found those sausages falling out of Germany's coat so funny but its a nice touch

>>31959859
>lamenting over the death of a man who is supposed to be your enemy
>edgy

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>>31956376
read this book...there was very little actual hate between the common French and Germans, lots of pride and a huge desire to not lose though.

>>31957281
9/11?

>>31957405
Well it was the only valid strategy to quickly take France out of the war, it just didn't work.

Did on the second try though.

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Germans looked cooler in late WW1 than WW2

>>31961583

There was a fair bit of lingering resentment for Germany by the average Frenchman, but much less for the average German. "Reclaim Alsace and Lorraine" was a big rallying cry that a lot of French truly believed.

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>>31961608
Even early WW1

>>31961614
Plus the influence of the 'murderous raping hun' style propaganda was a bit more effective in those days, but likely little true real hate, when you are fighting people who look like you de-humanization only works so far.

>>31956376
The hate didn't come until later in the war, where it was more a sentiment of "Dude why the fuck are you still lobbing artillery shells at us?"

Well there was also the start of the war, where they were basically "Yeah we're gonna kick Boche's/Sunny Tater's (look I don't know german) ass within like a week and come back an alpha male and fuck my wife."

It's the leaders that kept throwing bodies into the trenches, which is why you see so many European monarchs removed from power at the end.

>>31961695
>It's the leaders that kept throwing bodies into the trenches
Much like most wars I do believe, you usually have leaders telling troops to go fight

>>31961731
what's weird is that people listen.

>>31961930
I think soldiers usually have their own motive for being willing to be there, even if it's simply not wanting to be back at their shit life at home
Which is why conscription usually sucks balls

>>31958760
>Allied forces fire upon ship wreck survivors.
>Nothing happens.
>Hang a German crew for trying to sink the wreckage of ship with small arms.
Those double standards.

>>31961930
There were a lot of executions carried during that time for dereliction of duty. Unfortunately, Shell Shock was not understood, and the poor bastards suffering it were executed for cowardice.

>>31960828

Yeah, and I guess they learned that lesson from the Russo-Japanese war?

You obviously know absolutely nothing about the subject and it shows...

This is a well accepted fact that Germany wanted the war against Russia to destroy its ambitions before it could actually back those.

Hence why the Russo-French Rapprochement is considered a purely defensive one against a growingly belligerent German Empire.

>>31956376
What is truly mindboggling is that those number are nothing compared to what russians have suffered during WW2, and almost all of those were civilians.

does anyone have a screencap of the letter about the soldier in WW1 who was helping an injured soldier when a gas attack came in and he went to put his on but it was broken? the wounded man managed to get his on but the other soldier tore it away from him.

I've been trying to find it but I just can't

thanks

>>31956649
>Actually no, there was no real "hatred".
What?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French%E2%80%93German_enmity

>blaming bosnian serbs for ww1
well fuck you too, we did and i hope we start the 3rd one and the 4th one as well

>>31956376
>you have to hate someone to kill them
wat

>>31965555

That's the ruling elites though.

The vast majority of the drafted fighters on either sides were farmers and workers from rural areas who weren't as eager to kill their fellow men and die for their country as you might think.

Louis Barthas tells that well in his memoires, he went through the whole war on the French side after all.

>>31959978
>I don't see how you can call it an accident
how about you read this >>31956566 book first.
the whole point about Germany being the main villain in the history books is about them loosing the war (and WW2) in the first place. Winners are writing history. That being said, Germany has it's fair share of responsibility for WW1; world history and politics ain't no story of good vs. evil.

>>31965672

That book has been heavily critized by many historians for its inaccuracies and its blatant German sided view of the events.

Clark is the kind of authors who have their conclusions written before they actually write their book and straight up make anecdotes up just to back up their revisionist claims.

He's no different from Stephen E. Ambrose or S.L.A. Marshall.

I know it's a best seller in Germany and that the fact the author is an anglo somehow makes it more valid in the eyes of Germans and German sympathisers. However Sleepwalkers is very far from making a consensus among the world wide academic historian community.

>>31956566
>ridiculous Austrian ultimatum and German carte blanche support for Austria
I'm just not convinced by the 'sleepwalking' argument.

>>31956956
>Correcting blatantly false information on a military board on armistice day is autistic

>>31967218

Reminder if you don't agree with someone who is wrong you're autistic.

Good work anon you're very right though.

>>31967218
You should find other joys in life

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>>31959031
So there wasn't PT and stuff in WWI basic training?

>Make your bed real neat
>Stand up straight
>Answer with "sir" all the time
>Shine your boots and belt buckles
>Make your uniform look good
>Learn to march
>Learn to obey orders at all costs
>Learn to shoot and maintain your rife (though you probably know this already)
>Learn how to stabby-stab
>learn how to use the pup tent

What else am I missing?

>>31956609
>Go read a fucking book, "All quiet on the western front" for example.

That book was fictional.

>>31956376
Palpatine would be proud

>>31956583
Germany made it a big deal tho.
>friend gets in a fight
>ay i got u bruh
>ill fight his friends dont worry
>look france dead in the eye
>size france up
>yell a battle cry
>punch Belgium square in the face

>>31957484
gabrilo?

>>31956376
No one ever hates the enemy much at first. You grow to hate them.

>>31957504
germany's a good boy, he dindu nuffin wrong

>>31970531
What I mean is I didn't have an opinion about Muslims one way or the other. But Arabs run my local gas station, and it always takes my mind to that place. Which is wrong, because they're nice people.

>>31957484
>killa king
>only 20 years in prison
what

>>31956376
interlocking enfilade fires are a hell of a thing

>>31956416


BULLSHIT

Professional is a subjective term.
There were 13 year olds in the trench..they were not Professional. They were soldiers.
Demystify the word for a moment.

Soldiers aren't brave, Soldiers aren't tough...they are people just like everyone else. They are not gods..just men...unfortunate men that are already dead...

>>31956460
Lmao 69

>>31970561
>>killa king
>>only 20 years in prison
>what
The head people behind the holohoax and the systematic slaying of muh 6 gorillion only got 20 years, with the top 2 getting 30 and 40, but later let out on good behavior.

This 3 strikes bullshit from misdemeanors and such is literal tyranny. Do you know just how long 5 years of your life is? How about 6 months?

When it comes to the joodicial system, they pass out 6 months and 1 years like its handing someone a tissue to wipe their nose with. 5-10 years for something? Not a second thought.

Just how long do you think it takes for someone to realize their mistake and get their head straight to not do it again? Do you really think it takes a 19yr old over half of his lived life (10 years) for someone to figure out not to go ransack someone's home again?

The system is fucked, and is why over 20% of the population has seen the inside of a jail at least once in their life.

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>>31956460
Can you imagine getting that old only to be sent in a war that you didnt even start?

Another face and another life lost to those muddy and deadly fields

>>31970561
>>31970730
>This 3 strikes bullshit from misdemeanors and such is
should read
>This "3 strikes=life in prison" bullshit from misdemeanors and such is

>>31959485
And ww3 considering the growing issues in Europe caused by German and eu problems they may go 3 for 3.

>>31956681

>>Another factor was the contempt the officers had for the conscripts. They didn't have to go over the wire, and the groups were from different social spheres, so the upper class were ok with throwing waves of lower class men at the machine guns.

This is another of those "lions led my donkeys" fictions invented by left-wing propagandists in the Sixties. In the British Army at least, proportionately more officers died than men - 11% of other ranks but 18% of officers. 78 British generals were killed in action.

>>31957644
Eh, Germany fucked up but it was the combination of Germany, Austria, and Serbia that fuck it proper.

It was really a perfect storm for a pointless dick swinging war. Even the shit with Russia, England, and France.

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I always wondered how the veterans of the first war thought about ww2
>this pic is from ww2 btw

>>31956460
As ever, the answer to this is "it's complicated."
The actual guys who started the war were Austria-Hungary and Serbia. Austria-Hungary had an alliance with Germany and Italy. Serbia had an alliance with Russia, and Russia in turn allied with France and Britain.

Austria-Hungary wouldn't have started the war if not backed by Germany's guarantee... Or so we assume. Of course, we found out they weren't even good enough to take on little Serbia without undue difficulty. Russia was eager to run to Serbia's defense - and to pull the rest of their alliance in as well.

Basically, no one was actually committed to peace. Everyone was willing to go balls deep. They just had no idea how deep that was. Britain didn't like the idea of Germany challenging their naval supremacy and gaining colonies abroad. France didn't like their neighbor having the ability to swing a real big dick - Germany was slated to edge out France demographically and economically. Germany's war planners didn't like Russia's surplus either - their massive population growth and territory were problematic. Pretty much everyone wanted some exchange of territory on the mainland except Britain - who didn't really care much except for trying to ensure their hegemony.

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>>31956566
I can see the Youtube title now

>Arch-Duke Assassination Prank *Gone Wrong* *Gone Sexual* *In The Hood*
>"It's a prank bro. Look there's a camera right there. It's all a social experiment bro!"

>>31956460
>Austria started the war
>Britain turned it into a world war

Britain had no serious ties to Belgium prior to the war. They weren't serious economic or military partners. There was no reason for Britain to intercede in the war except they wanted to destroy the German navy which was quickly growing to rival the British. Not to mention the British knew the Germans intended to march through Belgium years before it ever happened. They could have told the Belgian government but chose not to knowing they could use it as a semi-legitimate casus belli to forward their goal in destroying the German navy and capturing German Africa.

Had Britain not got involved Germany would have cucked Russia, as they did, and eventually smashed through the French lines. On the Western Front it still would have been a brutal war, as wars often are, but it wouldn't have been the meat grinder the war turned into.

Because the British got involved new fronts were opened in the Pacific, Africa, and the Middle East. Not to mention the blockade of Germany which killed hundreds of thousands of people not just in Germany, but really throughout central Europe. A significant amount of the blame for the travesty that the war turned into rests on the shoulders of Britain for their covetous attitudes towards Germany.

>>31957719
No, he's actually totally right. America won both world wars practically single handedly. Without massive American investments, which totaled nearly $10 Billion dollars in 1917 dollars the French and British would have been sunk. The British would have literally starved to death at home and on the front and the French would have quickly run out of ammunition and other supplies. That's not even including American production and supplies provided to the Entente. American military intervention was relatively minor, but the economic support of the Allies was invaluable. Without it the Entente would have been unquestionably been crushed.

>>31968247
There's a lot more to it. I don't want to sound to animey like, but soldiers need to have the warrior spirit. Governments realized this after WWII. That's why there were soccer games out in the field and trading cigarettes. These weren't soldiers. They were farmers and factory workers with rifles. There's a big difference.

>>31971172
I've seen that statistic a lot and what it leaves out is that there was a disproportionate number of officers at the very front, especially in the British army. While an artillery or supply company would have 1-2 officers and maybe 1 superior officer, a front line company might have as many as a dozen. Also, the British officers were trained horribly. British officers received almost 0 combat training of any kind at all. Couple that with the fact they were taught never to duck and always stand up straight and never to run. No wonder they were getting domed left and right. Not to mention that officer school in those days wasn't about training fighting men, it was about refining the upper class. It was about etiquette and how to handle yourself in public and in front of the men. These officers had no idea about anything beyond rudimentary combat doctrine and almost nothing about fortification construction.

The British military was an absolute embarrassment. They went in expecting to win battle after battle just as they had with the natives in Africa. I'm not saying that the British army was a joke, they weren't. It's just that their officers and generals were the absolute least prepared for a modern war of any of the major powers. All the stuff about never ducking and being confident in front of the men was an important factor when you had 1000 zulus charging your tiny fortification. That is where the problem lay. They went into the war expecting to fight adrenaline mad Zulu natives when that wasn't anything like the reality. The tactics on both sides were seriously inadequate, but the British had especially stagnated in the tactical mindset of the early 19th century.

>>31971487
Really, there is this element to it. Britain wanted above all to check potential rivals. Had Germany been allowed to win, as they probably would have in the scenario you describe where Britain politely declined an invitation to war or bowed out of the alliance earlier, they would have seized parts or all of Belgium and perhaps slightly more of the interior of France as well. Sounds like a crying shame, but if we look at the borders of Europe between 1848 and 1960 (or, hell - 1992), it's clear that there is no stasis. The belief that there should be stasis is bullshit utopianism, and of course the lines are supposed to be drawn by good center-left Fabian types.

Beside, we should check the "poor Belgium" rhetoric to where it belongs - the trash. The Triple Entente were perfectly willing to violate the sovereignty of neutral powers whenever convenient. Belgium was in the way. Greece was in the way. Other nations fell in the way as well.

>>31971584
This is undoubtedly true. American war industry in both wars fell almost entirely toward the Entente and the Western Allies respectively. We could quibble as to whether this was a matter of preference, policy, or ease due to the blockade (it was a combination of the three). Whatever the case, without American credit lines and supplies in both wars, the British and French would have faced at the very least far tougher times and quite likely straddled defeat. Lest we forget: protracted wars are essentially wars of material and manpower, where the victor is determined by who mobilizes their resources most fully while striking out the opponent's (usually the one who can minimize losses is best off).

>>31971781
Junior officers especially were devastated. It's not that the British army was atrocious. They did have some questionable practices at the start of the war; for instance, assaults on fortified positions would often begin with lightly encumbered troops and all was as good as it could be.

>>31972078
Shortly after the first waves made it to the enemy trenches, whether they were repulsed or not, following waves would often be sent horribly weighed with kit. They would carry so much that they could only march across No Man's Land, and yet the artillery and machine gun fire continued. At least, this was my impression from reading the accounts of assaults at Ypres and the Somme. Remember that coordination relied on a combination of junior officers and NCOs on the front speaking to runners, who would relay the orders to more senior officers back at field HQ (usually some company or battalion HQ), and they would then have to confer with other officers. If they were lucky, they might be able to phone in artillery coordinates. Under intense bombardments, phone lines were frequently broken.

>>31957033
careful with that edge you sentimental fuck

>>31956376
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_of_Steel

>>31971245
>Germany was slated to edge out France demographically and economically.

Didn't the German Empire already have 2X the population and 3X the economy of France at the outbreak of WWI?

>>31956387
this. In the first year the combatants didn't really hate each other at all. After gas attacks they started to hate a bit, but by the end of the war when the Allies are having coffee in German cafes, they realize that German people are just normal, and mostly pretty nice to them.

>>31971781
>their officers and generals were the absolute least prepared for a modern war of any of the major powers
That acclaim goes to the Russians.

Pre-Brusilov Russian army is a fucking mess. no recon, artillery refuse to work with infantry, few heavy guns, artillery withdraw early, poor communications, bungled logistics left and right.

>>31956609

France had pros, pretty sure Germany did too.

Because their armies was mostly made up of conscripts doesn't mean they didn't have pros.

BEF was barely 150k during the initial German offensive, France and Germany each lined up a million men.

The whole French standing army was wiped out in the battle of the frontiers though. Actually "limoger", is a French word for sacked, which appeared at the time when Joffre had to banish about two hundred of his high ranking officers to Limoge, or other rear area cities, because they were utterly incompetent.

The French army back then was crippled by extreme immobilism, corruption and nepotism.

It's safe to say France lost most of her finest troops very early on because of suicidal and plain stupid leadership.

>>31972546

Yeah, it did. France had to extend her conscription periods just to be able to line up as many men on the frontiers as Germany.

The whole Russian/French rapprochement for both parties was meant as a defensive move to contain Germany and Austria/Hungaria growing belligerent attitudes.

Both France and Russia had no interest in having a war against Germany at the time.

I really hate those motherfuckers who write walls of text full of inepties they expect people to take at face value.

>>31958326
I wish I could slap you in the face over the internet. Twice if you were serious.

>>31971487 (you)
>>31971584 (you)
>>31971636 (you)
>>31971781 (you)
>>31972078 (you)
>>31972135 (you)


Could you stop quoting yourself to try and prove your point and shitty made up claims?

>>31971245
>Basically, no one was actually committed to peace.
Well, more or less,. There were hawkish elements everyhwere. The thing is...
> Everyone was willing to go balls deep.
No. The militaristic and revanchist elements in France were a minority. A minority stifled by the government. The French, on the whole and/or those in power were by no means itching for a war. They actively wanted to avoid one (and even hindered the aforementioned hawks during the July Crisis).

They would not go into cloud cuckoo land for peace, however. Which they would have needed to in order to appease Germany - give over border forts and cities? Like what the fuck, Jerry. Bottom line is, they might not have been committed to peace 100% because that would mean giving up their sovereignty. At the same they certainly were not willing to go balls deep in any shape or form.

>>31972078
>Beside, we should check the "poor Belgium" rhetoric to where it belongs - the trash. The Triple Entente were perfectly willing to violate the sovereignty of neutral powers whenever convenient. Belgium was in the way. Greece was in the way. Other nations fell in the way as well.
Ah, gotta love the false equivalence.

Remind me again of the atrocities the allies committed in Greece which would include thousands of civilians including women and children executed, settlements put to the torch, tens of thousands of civilians deported for slave labor, or electric fences set up to prevent their escape?

Or, conversely, tell me again of a significant part of the Belgian government that actively welcomed and invited the German invasion?

>>31971487

Let me start off by saying that pretty much everything you said was wrong

>no serious ties to Belgium

That's a funny way of saying that there was an 80 year old British guarantee of Belgian independence.

>knew years in advance of an invasion of Belgium

Source, other than your asshole? I also want something concrete, not revisionist bullshit

>semi-legitimate

Again, I think an 80 year old guarantee is enough.

>blockade

Was completely legitimate, Germany was gassing Allied troops and pushing through Allied territory, it was a war, cutting supply lines is a totally valid tactic, and anything else is revisionist bullshit. I will not argue this point further.

>British covetous attitude

This is the most laughable point. The alliances from WWI can be traced back to 1911 to an event called the Second Moroccan Crisis. The Moroccan Crisis was an event where Germany attempted to sail a gunboat over to Morocco and steal all of it under the guise of "protecting Germans" which sounds familiar (see, Anschluss, Sudetenland Crises, Invasion of Poland). The only problem is that there was exactly one German living there, he was contacted to meet up with the German gunboat. He agreed, however, the gunboat had no idea what he looked like. This led to a comical situation where the German was running up and down the beaches trying to get the attention of the gunboat while onlookers were quite confused. French troops were deployed to counter the German threat (as Morocco was a client state of France at the time)

Both the UK and America were more or less sympathetic to the Germans before the Moroccan Crises, but since the British and French both had extensive colonial empires, which were obviously being threatened by Germany, they decided to work together to preserve their colonies.

America has always favored Britain and the Zimmerman Note coupled with unrestricted U-Boat warfare in the Atlantic pressed America into the war.

>>31972078

>Britain wanted to check its rivals

Or maybe, I dunno, honor an 80 year old guarantee? They also get to slap the guy who had been attempting to steal African colonies and influence.

Another thing you said

>UK would've gotten parts of Belgium and France

No, no no no no. You obviously don't understand the time period of which you speak. People press claims and fight for predetermined war goals. Germany wasn't going to carve up France, that would NOT happen under ANY circumstances. It would've likely been a repeat of the Franco-Prussian War, Germany gets a tiny sliver of land maybe and national prestige at tell expense of France, probably colonial claims in Africa as well.

Think and understand before you say stupid shit.

You can believe stupid shit all of you want, but I'll be damned if I'll let you spread your stupid revisionist bullshit to people.

>>31957033
On the other hand, both get to charge into glorious combat

>>31971487
Treaty of London 1839

>>31956552
My head hurts

>>31960426
What you're saying is true for england's "better now than later" attitude towards war with germany. Plus Russia was the first to mobilize while Wilhelm was still trying to convince Nicholas not to do it, which shows your argument to be unfounded. Its like you have it all upside down.

>>31972464
>In total, Jünger was wounded 14 times during the war, including five bullet wounds.
>5 bullet wounds

holy shit. It's one thing to survive lol9mm but to survive 5 high powered 303/8mm (french) rifle shots and live?

fuck

>>31976082


Then again with your absolutely disgusting German revisionism...

>July 23, 1914 - Austria-Hungary, with the backing of Germany, delivers an ultimatum to Serbia.

>July 25, 1914 - Austria-Hungary severs diplomatic ties with Serbia and begins to mobilize its troops.

>July 26, 1914 - Britain attempts to organize a political conference among the major European powers to resolve the dispute between Austria-Hungary and Serbia. France and Italy agree to participate. Russia then agrees, but Germany refuses.

>July 28, 1914 - The Austro-Hungarian Empire declares war on Serbia.

>July 29, 1914 - Britain calls for international mediation to resolve the worsening crisis. Russia urges German restraint, but the Russians begin partial troop mobilization as a precaution. The Germans then warn Russia on its mobilization and begin to mobilize themselves.

>July 31, 1914 - Reacting to the Austrian attack on Serbia, Russia begins full mobilization of its troops. Germany demands that it stop.

>August 1, 1914 - Germany declares war on Russia. France and Belgium begin full mobilization.

>August 3, 1914 - Germany declares war on France, and invades neutral Belgium. Britain then sends an ultimatum, rejected by the Germans, to withdraw from Belgium.
Yeah, Germany totally didn't do it guys...

A fucking week. That's all the time that passed between Austria declaring war on Serbia and Germany invading Belgium.

>>31976082

Russia mobilized against Austria Hungary after they invaded Serbia you moron.

Wilhelm writing letters to his pall Nicholas doesn't prove anything while the German military leadership sure as hell planned, prepared and sure as hell made sure the war happened.

>>31956376
>mechanical superiority
>hatred

imblying!

Manufacturing is the backbone of a nation.

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>>31976155
It's incredible what the human body can withstand (with a hefty dose of luck though).

For example pic related served during the whole war and was wounded 7 times, including a bullet fracturing his femur, right arm broken by a grenade, head wounds necessitating two trepanations, eyes burned by gas...

Despite being around 90% invalidity he soldiered on during the Rif War, WW2 and finally the Korean War for which he asked to be demoted so he could command the French battalion.

Then there are people like Adrian Carton de Wiart who take it to the next level.

>>31956376
The real hatred wasn't between the warring nations, but the gross contempt the ruling classes had for their own citizens.

It was all mostly artillery nigga