>there are people here who actually think tourniquets have

>>31954705
>OP help, I've been hit with shrapnel and I'm bleeding out. Give me a tourniquet
>"ha ha you like to use tourniquets you human garbage"

Low quality bait

They are only appropriate for TCCC based combat casualty care, unless you are literally on a two way range you don't need any of those things.

Although if you have been trained to use them and are confident they can work in a pinch especially if you have plenty of surplus ones lying around to use.

>>31954803
>"OP help, I've been hit with shrapnel and I'm bleeding out. Give me a tourniquet"
>if you wanted an amputation, you just had to ask

seriously how much pressure do you think blood runs at that you need a tourniquet. you're literally instructed to never ever use one in modern first aid

>>31954705

>hey friend I seem to have a rather large gash on my shin and will die from blood loss in 2 minutes could you apply that tourniquet for me bud.

>BUT YOU'LL LOSE YOUR LEG MAN

>haha, yeah I know but come on I'm about to die, might as well live without a leg than die, ya know?

>B-BUT YOUR LEG WILL BE LOST

>yeah man I know but I'm feeling kinda cold and tired here can you please just apply the tourniquet

>BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE YOUR LEG, RIGHT?

>n-no but I want to live, please, just apply it.

>I CAN'T DO THAT MAN I DON'T WANT YOU TO LOSE YOUR LEG

>p-please

>NO CAN DO, DON'T WORRY I'LL CARRY YOU TO A HOSPITAL 15 MINUTES AWAY

>>31954705
I wouldn't call a bic pen tracheotomy "first aid" so much as "panicked desperation".

>>31954847
do you know what a bandage is

>>31954861

do you know some cuts are large enough that you can't pack enough bandages to keep someone from bleeding out.

>>31954865
that is when you use a wound closure device such as, say, a bandage, and apply pressure until you have it properly dressed. such devices come in many varieties, from simple strips of cloth to transparent strips of stretchy plastic coated in glue. I believe they call the latter "tape"

>>31954907
Are you trolling, or just retarded? if I bayonet you in your thigh, no pressure on heaven or earth will stop that from bleeding.

>>>31954865

Literally not even reading my post

Why am I falling for this b8

>>31954925

Meant for

>>31954907

>>31954922
If I stick my dick in the whole, that'll stop it from bleeding

Provided the bayonet is 2-3 inches, maximum

when will the "stop the bleeding" meme just die? everyone knows the wounds heal faster if you just let it bleed out, i mean it has to run out at some point

>>31954838
>hurr hurr i dont know how to adjust pressure of a tourniquet so I'll just tie it all the way taut so he has almost no blood flow
>they don't use it in modern first aid

Where the hell did they say that, anon.

>>31954705
>there are people here who actually think this is /k/ related
>there are people here who actually think OP isn't a faggot
>there are people here who actually think he wasn't shitposting

>>31954922
Use the powder that stops bleeding and forms a clot. A lot of it. Secure with tight bandages.

No tourniquet needed.

>>31954861
>limb blown off
>losing blood quickly
>shock beginning to set in
"Just use a bandage bro!"

>>31954950
>not realizing that a tourniquet used on an immediate likely fatal injury can save your life.
Gotta shave those few ounces off the plate carrier tho!

Ive been in ONE situation involving a train and some dumb kids that I almost thought I need a tourniquet for.

>>31954922
I actually had a pretty bad cut wound in my thigh once and it was literally solved with direct pressure and a small bandage. Arterial bleed, too, couldn't walk for days after getting out of hospital.

Didn't die, though

>>31954938
>>31954925
>>31954961
>>31954998
have any of you ever taken a first aid course ever

even for amputations, you use bandages, not tourniquets

id take a picture of the pages in my actual manual right here but my camera is trash

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eh. fuck it. my garbage 0$ smartphone camera has not served me well but here it is

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>>31955104
"tourniquet" can be found in the glossary, but isn't in the index of the book. because it is never even discussed. in the actual courses they say to not use it. turns out blood isn't so high pressure that a properly applied bandage isn't just fine, no need to tie your belt around their arm as tightly as you can

>>31955070
>>31955104
>>31955121
Ok, for general use and less than severe bleeding, I'd just use bandages. But for shit like the Boston bombing where I don't have good access to bandages, a tourniquet helps.

>>31955070
This

First aid currently states tourniquet use as outdated and recommends pressure and bandages. Servicemen still carry though, at their discretion. Shit still works and your buddy with half a leg can't hold bandages very good while being dragged around.

>>31955182
Agreed on this. And it isn't about cutting bloodflow off completely, It's about slowing and controlling bleeding. Also tourniquets can be self-applied easier than bandages. The US and coalition forces still issue tourniquets for combat use.

Saying tourniquets are completely irrelevant just isn't true. Their role may have shrunk, but they still have their place.

>>31954705
>>there are people here
Questionable at best.

>>31954838
>>31954943
Ok, I've might've been to harsh there. You probably meant bandages for general use, correct?

>modern first aid says not to use tourniquets

I'm an EMT and this is false, tourniquets are still commonly used, granted only if direct pressure and bandages aren't sufficient. No tissue damage will be done if you get to the hospital in any kind of a timely manner

>>31955182
>where I don't have good access to bandages, a tourniquet helps.
in literally what scenario do you have something to use as a tourniquet but don't have anything on hand to soak up blood

while less than ideal, a piece of a cotton shirt could function as a dressing. and what place doesn't have a million first aid boxes in it these days, even grocery stores have two AEDs each, let alone boxes full of bandages and bottles of eye wash solution

>>31955183
>your buddy with half a leg can't hold bandages very good
have you heard of these things called "knots", they do the work for you (or your buddy)

>>31955256
>I'm an EMT
EMTs don't do first aid, they do ongoing care. there is a difference, mostly in terms of expertise and equipment available

Tourniquets are to be used by professionals only. they still have a place in medicine in general, but not in first-aid.

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>>31954705

>>31955256
>I'm an EMT
prove it

I'm >>31955070 and they didn't go strapping belts around my leg. they didn't even take the bandages off until an actual doctor saw me in the hospital

ITT, people that understand the proper usage of tourniquets vs nerds who never joined the military.

>>31954824
Tourniquets and blood clotters were actually brought back after field medics in Iraq found that they significantly reduced death rates when the soldier was being transported. We have them in ambulances now because of it.

>>31955274
>my one anecdotal experience proves tourniquets are obsolete.
And I thought we had all of our chromosomes.

>>31955121
The book is outdated. Today all medics have tourniquets that can be applied one handed.

>>31955323
>The book is outdated.
it's from 2011 and my latest course was this year

where's your first aid book/course/card then

>>31955258
>literally what scenario

The one in which the only materials you have are dirty ripped clothing scraps and string, with the EMS at least 10-20 minutes away or there are too many injured for them to handle.

The lack of domestic use of tourniquets is a legal liability issue. Militaries use tourniquets in TCCC environments and have absolutely found they save lives where blood loss will be the cause of death.

>>31955475
it's still better to just use the dirty clothing. which would you prefer -- being on antibiotics after your surgery but at least some bits of your arm/leg being able to be reattached, or having your limb permanently gone?

>>31955487
then why isn't the use of tourniquets taught in military first aid?

>people still believe the "just use a period pad/tampon to plug bullet holes!" meme

literally what part of that sounds like a good idea, the thing's whole purpose is to suck up blood, you're just gonna put them into shock faster if you stuff diaper fluff into their guts

>>31955546
It is. It's taught in TCCC.

I see the book you took a screenshot of is canadian. Sounds like you did the military first aid course as taught by St. John's Ambulance. It's a civilian first aid course with about 20 minutes devoted to carries to make it into a "military" course. It's a qualification check-in-the-box course that teaches the entire military - including fat female clerks who will never be within 20 miles of a firefight - how to do basic general first aid. I think it's equivalent to First Aid Level C for a civilian.

TCCC uses tourniquets, because it's about keeping people alive in environments where massive bleeds are likely to happen.

>>31955323
Thank god now I can masturbate to a patient's suffering while helping them at the same time

>>31954705
Please put your gun in the mouth and pull the trigger, that is the most stupid and uniformed opinion I have ever seen. Go take an EMT class or read a trauma medicine journal.

>>31955646
>carries
...Tooth issues? nah there's no dental part of the first aid course we do. we have proper dental coverage instead

>>31954705
Paramedic here. You're a retard about everything except hemp stats tourniquets save lives

>>31954838
Bull. Fucking. Shit. This isn't the 40s anymore. Tourniquets are the gold standard of bleeding control in extremity trauma and you can leave them on for HOURS without needing an amputation

>>31955721
>p-paramedic here
>slam a bic pen down someones throat while tying belts around minor cuts, thats a better idea than using proper bandages and direct pressure

i hope i never get injured in the US, i'd probably be brutally murdered by anyone who responds

>31954705


Dude. A story for you.

I'm a paramedic btw.

So a young man gets drunk and punches a window, then severes his brachial artery. Walking up, over 1.5 liters of blood on scene, patient lying left lateral vomiting into his opened arm that is still profusely bleeding. The pt is not alert whatsoever. I didn't have a tourniquet, neither did law enforcement on scene. I try a blood pressure cuff to no effect, a simple cotton tie we use as restraints didn't work either, not enough traction even using a pen tie. Obviously direct pressure was ineffective and neither was pressure points.

Long story short, the guy coded enroute.

Ever since then I carry a tourniquet. I can't help but think if I had a legitimate one, then this young drunk guy wouldn't be dead.

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>>31955267
Holy fucking Christ you have to be a troll. First aid is just about the only place you'd use them at all and you clearly don't know what an emt is

>>31954940
Finally, someone with a bigger dick than me.

>>31955646
>It's a civilian first aid course with about 20 minutes devoted to carries to make it into a "military" course.
that's literally incorrect, carries aren't focused on at all and it's not like the nature of a bad cut or someone starting to vomit blood after some boozing and whoring fundamentally changes because they're in CADPAT instead of a denim jacket and assless chaps

>>31955758
>Obviously direct pressure was ineffective
I don't believe you for a second because I've gotten femoral artery severed and it turned out just fine with direct pressure and a reasonably tight dressing

that guy was probably out for a long time unattended and lost a lot of blood before you were on scene and would have coded anyway

>>31955744
0/10

By the way you realize there is zero statistical evidence that direct pressure actually affects pt outcomes right?

>>31954861
Something that won't stop a severed artery from bleeding?

>>31955546
>limb permenantly gone

That's the thing, most of those poor saps at the Boston Bombing were missing their lower limbs. Those who didn't had mangled messes for legs.

EMS did bandage those they could, but try rapping a bandage around a shin that looks like partially splitted tinder.

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>>31955546
>then why isn't the use of tourniquets taught in military first aid?

>>31955775
To be fair, were you drink as shit? Not a paramedic at all but I know that alcohol = faster/easier bleeding.

>>31955829
>rapping
opinion disregarded

amazing how tourniquet threads are always full of "paramedics" and "EMTs" who literally can't spell

>>31955838
That can depend on several factors; fucked up liver means ducked up clotting factors

>>31955840
>oh dear his argument is good but he misspelled a word so i win

If your only argument was that i misspelled wrapping because i'm on my phone during a night shift, then you are a sad man.

>>31955840
>he misspelled a word
>thus his argument is invalid and I'm right

/b/tard tier argument.

>>31955840
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

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>>31955546
>then why isn't the use of tourniquets taught in military first aid?
TCC certified guy here. You're retarded, or a troll. Don't post here anymore.

>>31954705
>tfw when people think bandages are needed.
>just carry your milspec sewing kit and fix it permanently rather than temporarily bandaging it

>>31955872
I think >>31955838 meant that Alcohol is a vasodilator.

I'm not medically trained so I have no idea if it would make any significant difference, but I could see why someone might think so.

>>31954950
Mmm yes, just pour a bunch of hemostat on a gushing arterial bleed, see how well that works for you.

>>31954705
The b8 or autism (likely both) is real.

>>31955649
This anon gets it

>>31954705
Tourniquets were the primary thing they hit us on going through FACT training back in August. Quick, fast and easy to put on to give you time to accomplish other checks and TCCC if you do notice extremity wounds. You can pack and Israeli wrap after wards when you've ensured their are no chest wounds, breathing issues, etc.

They taught that properly applied tourniquets can stay on for 8-10 hours without risking permanent damage now Leroy Petry the MOH recipient had his on for I believe 12 hours and did not suffer lasting damage (barring his obviously missing hand). They also commented that field expedient tourniquets such as the ones used on the Boston Bombing Victims mostly proved ineffective and properly controlling the bleeding. Slowing, yes, stopping no.

They also pointed out that studies have shown that a large portion of the guys who died en route to hospital care were due to everyone for a while automatically "assuming" any patient had a spinal injury and taking the time to properly strap them to the restraint board and wasting time of proper care.

>>31955183
>>31955070
Do some research rather than spewing things you heard from armchair surgeons; tourniquets are extremely helpful in improving prehospital mortality and do not negatively impact amputation rates.

At the least, watch the tourniquet portion of this presentation.

echo360ess.ohsu.edu:8443/ess/echo/presentation/3c8051c1-8e20-416c-8cac-b01a0af0991a?ec=true

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26091308
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26218691

>>31954705
Very well done bait

>le putting on a tourniquet immediately means you're going to lose a limb

This myth needs to die.

>>31955267
>EMTs do ongoing care, not first aid

Yeah, this is decent bait.

>>31958110
>They also pointed out that studies have shown that a large portion of the guys who died en route to hospital care were due to everyone for a while automatically "assuming" any patient had a spinal injury and taking the time to properly strap them to the restraint board and wasting time of proper care.

Pretty much. Fear of spinal injuries can slow down emergency care to a crawl. You're alot less likely to be sued for a patient bleeding to death than you are for accidentally causing a spinal injury though, so I can see the viewpoint there.

Though I do think it's funny that they spent so much time teaming me how to use a KED in EMT school and I haven't touched the stupid things since.

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>>31955448
I have a 2011 book too, right here.

>>31959348
my 2016 book says tourniquets are fine as well. this thread is bait and autism, please dont reply anymore.