How long could Finland hold off Russia if they decided to free

>>31948306
Depends on the amount of troops and ordnance they send.

>>31948306
Probably for quite some time. Finnish defence strategy is based on wearing down the advancing spearhead for which the geography and terrain along the border and especially in southeastern Finland is perfect. Take a look at some maps and you´ll figure it out.

>>31948306
2 weeks
>>31948343
>the advancing spearhead
this isn't WW2

>>31948354
>this isn't WW2
Oh yeah. Totally forgot about the teleporters the Russian army has. Fuck, how could we forget?

#winterwarnumber2electicboogaloo
my body is ready

Get your own nukes mate.

probably maybe a week, then a long, drawn out occupation that will cost several hundred thousand Russian lives.

>>31948306
>vatniks get spanked
>again

>>31948306
A month. If the churkas aren't the shock troops.
If they are, 18 days.

Still, i dont see Finland being stupid to want to oppress the Russian minority if there are that many.
That minority gets t72s, tunguskas and who knows what else faster than Finland can deploy their anti terrorist units.

Finns are the only sane people in Europe, not because of some bullshit edgy nazi shit you all love to jack off to, but because they aren't aligned with anyone. And thats the smartest way to remain intact from all the jew/russian/western proxy games over who gets to sell what and at what price.

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>>31948306
Continuation war situation with general NATO/Russia war? Fend off the attack entirely, considering the amount of troops and ordnance Russia could possibly afford to send into Finland at the present.
Unrealistic Winter War scenario where Russia collectively decides to estinguish the Finnish ethnicity? Few months at the absolute most, probably around a month.
The former scenario, according to Lt. Col. Arto Nokkala, who has nothing to gain from lying about it unless he's become a Russian shill. Have some propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PzJNlUZ9iw

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>>31948306
>Four days?
4 hours.
inb4 there is no reason to Russia to go against Finland
You see, Russia will operate hybrid. They are gonna turn off all civilian means of communication by cyber attack, they are gonna jam the shit out of military channels. Electricity, mobile networks, GPS, Internet - everything will be shut down.Civilian authorities will be kicked out by spec-ops in that chaos. Military - by precious strikes. Finnish tanks and planes will not even move, because there will be no order to deploy. Complete informational isolation of every part of society. And then Green man coming and taking control.

>>31948306
About a week at best

>>31948354
>this isn't WW2
OK, so they would just like... not come in at all?

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>>31948423
>That minority gets t72s, tunguskas and who knows what else faster than Finland can deploy their anti terrorist units.
What, a company's worth of minorities get military equipment that our military is already trained to defeat? Nevermind our paramilitary border defence with LRP units and special forces, swamps, lakes, forests, small amount of serviceable roads and cliffs in the East. How would they get those vehicles into Finland in the first place?

>but because they aren't aligned with anyone
That's wrong though. Finland is currently aligned with the West because it's profitable for us. Look at Finlandization for example. We just stick to whoever we need to at the time to survive and prosper.

>>31948460
Oh snap, so why even bother trying, I wonder why any country does if that's the case. Or maybe, just maybe you are a retard.

>>31948512
He is mostly retarded sense you can't jam things like military channels or the internet for more than afew days, and that is at the most efficient cyber attack. Operating Hybrid is widely understood to be a burst strategy when you are about to attack or lay a particularly brutal siege.

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>>31948460
>You see, Russia will operate hybrid. They are gonna turn off all civilian means of communication by cyber attack
Great, then we'll just use the non-civilian authority means instead, assuming the Russians manage to down all of the thousands of masts in Finland completely by surprise.
>they are gonna jam the shit out of military channels
Literally how? To accomplish that would require ridiculous amounts of energy. Are they going to transport nuclear powerplants to the front? Sneak them into Finland with their spetsnaz infiltrators?
>Electricity
Sure, that I'll give you. Lots of folks will be cold that winter.
>mobile networks, internet
And bored.
>GPS
Oh darn, people won't be able to drive without maps anymore. Our military is not reliant on GPS, we're not Americans.
>Civilian authorities will be kicked out by spec-ops in that chaos.
Ayyyy. I wonder where the Russians will dig out this division of Spetsnaz and spread them out all over Finland, all without the Finnish authorities having absolutely no clue about it.
>Military - by precious strikes
Precision, you mean. I'll let you in on a secret, there is no way Russia could ever destroy, paralyse or eliminate the entire military with precision attacks, very much less so before mobilization.

You're talking of the Russians like they're some kind of advanced race of aliens and that they would conduct operations not even the USMil would be capable of. How and why does this mysterious conflict begin without any notice?
One day Russia just decides to invade, with no reason or motivation?

>>31948578
>You're talking of the Russians like they're some kind of advanced race of aliens
I've heard they do have that red button thing, which like wraps rock, cuts paper and crushes scissors, nothing can stop it.

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>>31948622
Yeah and when Russia starts using the red button all willy-nilly, everyone starts throwing it around and the game is ruined. You happy now?

>>31948578
>Literally how?
With ground and areal means of EW.
>Are they going to transport nuclear powerplants to the front?
Why? All that means have their own power. BTW, there is nuclear powerplant in 100km from Finnish border.
> I wonder where the Russians will dig out this division of Spetsnaz and spread them out all over Finland, all without the Finnish authorities having absolutely no clue about it.
You have no idea how long Russian-Finnish border is and how many people travel there.
>there is no way Russia could ever destroy, paralyse or eliminate the entire military
Entire military of normal country - yes, there is no way. But we're talking about Finland. Country with population less than population of Saint-Petersburg, which is near by.
>How and why does this mysterious conflict begin without any notice?
Dunno, it's OP fantasy. Russia has no interests in Finland. They're buddies.

>>31948668
>areal
avia

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>>31948668
>With ground and areal means of EW.
Which have in no way enough output to jam all possible channels across Finland. EW isn't magic.
>Why? All that means have their own power. BTW, there is nuclear powerplant in 100km from Finnish border.
And? They gonna pull cables from it all the way to the front and use those to power their EW capabilities?
>You have no idea how long Russian-Finnish border is and how many people travel there.
Yeah, so they'll just march in thousands of Spetsnaz unnoticed over the border, then proceed to infiltrate those into every single official's neighbourhood for surgical strikes? Uh-huh.
>Entire military of normal country - yes, there is no way. But we're talking about Finland. Country with population less than population of Saint-Petersburg, which is near by.
Okay, so ~400,000 precision strikes in an instant, plus bunker busters, including nuclear ones for those peskier targets. Sure the Russian military is capable of this? It sounds kind of far fetched.

>>31948651
>You happy now?
My anus is prepared.

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>>31948724
It's going to pucker up before it gets some action I'm afraid. You plan on keeping it prepared all the time or are you fan of the more classical approach of just having the tools for its preparation at hand?

>>31948668
Well said, anon. There is absolutely no reason for Russia to wage war against Finland. Recent military reinforcements in Baltic region are dedicated for Kaliningrad exclave due to Poland and Li/Lat/Est hostile activity. There are no Russian minority in Finland to speak of BTW.

>>31948306
Why would we want to try to free the russians from ourselves?

>>31948757
>There are no Russian minority in Finland
Compared to size of Crimean? NO, there is no Russian minority in Finland. Finland is a place where wealth Russians buy property. Not a place where poor Russians trapped with neo-nazi regime.

>>31948358
yeah theyre called paratroopers you fucking idiot, terrain doesnt mean jack to guys that flow over it

>>31948864
And at that point they're not exactly infiltrating, you know. Finland has Hornets at the ready 24/7 and Russia does not have the stealth aircraft required to sneak into Finland and drop any notable amount of paratroopers. Should consider bringing them from the sea instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8GifZ0g2MQ

>>31948864
So you can just like fly in a whole invasion force with nobody doing anything about it? And that same invasion force could somehow sustain itself?

>>31948864
This isn't WW2, paratroopers attempting to drop is just a very elaborate form of suicide.

>>31948909
This. Air assault is done with helicopters these days. Far safer, far more effective. Deep insertions don't work for any notable amount of troops.

>>31948900
>Finland has Hornets at the ready 24/7
And Russia has AA defence covering most of Finland airspace. Also,
>Russia does not have the stealth aircraft required to sneak
that's why there was 2 EW plane per every transport plane in Soviet time. Dunno what about now.

>>31948915
Short-ranged, unstealthy, vulnerable and intended to support an advancing conventional force about a day's distance away. What part of this removes a ground attack?

>>31948916
>And Russia has AA defence covering most of Finland airspace.
With a radar horizon somewhere around the Finnish border, I'd assume. The Finnish air force is well aware of Russian anti-air capabilities and they are not an impenetrable obstacle. We are not intending to fly above them, after all.
>that's why there was 2 EW plane per every transport plane in Soviet time. Dunno what about now.
Yes and EW planes radiate. This does nothing more than help the interceptors to locate them which goes completely against the notion of infiltration.
Do the EW planes link up with the AA systems to feed them targeting data?

>>31948941
>What part of this removes a ground attack?
What do you mean by this? Air assaults are done in support of the main offensive, mainly to target logistical centres, upper HQs and other valuable targets. Possibly to seize important points of terrain such as bridges or highways to stop or weaken the enemy's capabilities.

>>31948481
They will, only that before they come comes a cruise missile strike.

>>31948306
Depends how long they can defend their ports.
If russians literally charge with tanks and lines of half starving frost bitten conscripted vatniks, It will be Winter War again.

Finns will be waiting in the forests, concealed and well entrenched, they will have tiny scouting units checking the area at all times.
The only way to counter that is the same way you fight in jungle gorilla warfare.
With another gorilla.
Russians have enough slant eyed tribes living in the snow for a long time, they can use them.
9 men per gorilla unit, good cammo, ir scanning countermeasures, snipers, light mortars, spotting equipment, they literally have everything they need to jump in the forest stealthy.
Many trees would have to be cut down sadly.
Ofcourse there would be losses, but nothing like in ww2.

Maybe the Finn minority in Karelia (if there are any at all) can cause some mayhem there, but that would most likely result in genocide against them.
Anything could happen.

>>31948973
>9 men per gorilla unit, good cammo, ir scanning countermeasures, snipers, light mortars, spotting equipment, they literally have everything they need to jump in the forest stealthy.
This does however not really accomplish anything, just a super long, low intensity gorilla vs. gorilla war.

To actually win one has to seize and hold territory.

>>31948966
Exactly? Try to read the quote chain, it generally helps.

>>31949061
What I said is in no way in contradiction with the chain. It simply adds to the discusion with a different tangent. Air assault is no longer done with paratroopers dropping with parachutes behind enemy lines, but is done with helicopters landing slightly behind enemy lines.

>>31948306
A concerted attack against the government proper? Not even 2 hours. FDF probably won't even get to fire a shot, Russia would just bomb Helsinki and the civilian government would surrender without a fight.

A low intensity invasion along the lines of Ukraine? Probably multiple months if not indefinitely as the Finns drum up support from allied countries.

>>31949037
It wouldnt be just gorilling around the forest. Dont forget the ports being wrecked, the strategic bombings, large mechanized divisions and artillery where the gorillas have been eliminated.
Dont forget the tromo barbaric shit fired from Tos-1 Bernardio that russians would rain down on towns, villages, factories, stations...

Like you said, low and high intensity gorilla vs gorilla warfare only where the defenders count on gorilla warfare to halt the advance of the main strike force and overkill in other areas.
It could be done.

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>>31949074
>Russia would just bomb Helsinki and the civilian government would surrender without a fight.
At this point the defence minister and president at the very least should brutally murder the rest of the cabinet and continue with defensive operations.

>>31949116
Should, yes.

Will, not a chance.

>>31949072
Read further up fuckwit.

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>>31949126
>Will, not a chance.
I refuse to believe the government would just surrender. Literally treason.

>>31949134
Yeah, I read it up to the very post that started it. Mind explaining it to me instead?

>>31949135
>female healthcare doctorate as Minister of the Interior
>young male history major as Minister of Defense
>all ministries are headquartered in Helsinki
Assuming the Russians bomb the shit out of Helsinki (the only kind of bombing they're capable of since they can't understand PGMs) the odds of the President, Prime Minister, *and* MoD surviving the initial attack are slim. Which puts the Minister of the Interior in the hot seat, according to the chain of succession on Wikipedia.

Also, even if they did all survive the initial attack I 100% guarantee you she'd go "think of the children! We need to sue for peace before any more civilians are killed! I'm a woman, you need to listen to meeee!" because she has a track record of doing that in lesser circumstances.

>>31949144
Not that guy, but if you can't tell that the spearhead post is the origin of the paratrooper chain you need to stop sniffing glue.

>>31948951
>EW planes radiate. This does nothing more than help the interceptors to locate them
You have a little understanding what EW plane do, haven't you?

>>31949074
>Russia would just bomb Helsinki and the civilian government would surrender without a fight.
Why would the government surrender? The bombing and fucking up of Helsinki is actually very much taken into account in all Finnish "Finald vs. Soviets" scenarios. That's entirely expected.

>A low intensity invasion along the lines of Ukraine? Probably multiple months if not indefinitely as the Finns drum up support from allied countries.
If the craptastic UA army can keep the ruskies at bay like they do for years, how come the Finnish military would fare worse than that? The Ukrainian army is total crap whilst the Finnish military is one of the strongest in Europe and 100% dedicated and designed for defensive warfare against a very specific enemy,

Forever, Tengri will protect the Finns.

>>31949253
>Why would the government surrender?
Because old government died horrible death and they don't want to die too. And to save civilians.

>>31948864
How do you get to the aa batteries that need to not be there for the planes to survive?

>>31949277
>implying they need planes
The slavs are just shooting them out of artillery pieces into enemy territory.

>>31949273
Old government can GTFO.

The civvies deaths would be on the invaders head, naturally.

>>31949253
Because it'll kill the standing government, which are all based in Helsinki 24/7? Because they'll surrender to preserve the lives of their civilian population because every scenario is basically "Russia carpetbombs/nukes major population centers with no regard to strategic importance because they're evil"? Because with the exception of the PM the current government is a bunch of pussified libshits with no backbone?

>>31949277
HALO/HAHO SOF insertions (one of the few areas the Russian's are actually good at). Counterbattery fire. EW/Wild Weasels. Saturation artillery. Nukes. Escorted formations. Low altitude air assault to seize AA emplacements (which the Finns seem to keep static even though the entire rest of their military is extremely mobile). Probably more options.

>>31948853
>Not a place where poor Russians trapped with neo-nazi regime.
Since 1920-s
Thanks dear Mannergeym for kill russians in Finland

>>31949337
>Low altitude air assault to seize AA emplacements (which the Finns seem to keep static even though the entire rest of their military is extremely mobile).
Wat?

>>31949337
You don't need a government to fight t. reserve killing machine

>>31948864
Paratroopers don't work and never did.

If russians went macross missile massacre with Iskanders and whetever else they have right now under peacetime readiness there wouldn't even be a war, it can be hopefully assumed that the russians dont go from 0 to 60 in one day though, allowing readiness to be increased.

>>31949337

I'm not aware of any meaningful AA we have except NASAMS and various SHORAD, which are all highly mobile. Destroying the hornets on tarmac would grant them immediate unrestricted air operations

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>>31949377
Maybe in Texas. But not in Europe and not against country who dealt with fucking Chechens.

>>31948578
>Literally how? To accomplish that would require ridiculous amounts of energy. Are they going to transport nuclear powerplants to the front? Sneak them into Finland with their spetsnaz infiltrators?
They're going to repeat that one episode of NGE where the Japs wired up every power plant in the country to a single location, except change the particle beam or whatever it was to jamming equipment.

>>31948904
>So you can just like fly in a whole invasion force with nobody doing anything about it? And that same invasion force could somehow sustain itself?

Yeah, it's the Red Dawn maneuver. A billion paratroopers just poof out of nowhere. Very effective.

>>31948864
Oh yes, the history is full of successful large scale airborne operations

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>>31949337
>Because it'll kill the standing government, which are all based in Helsinki 24/7?
At which point the commander of the armed forces takes his place as the de-facto marshal of Finland and starts defensive operations.
>Because they'll surrender to preserve the lives of their civilian population
You mean the military reserve with a national willingness to fight around ~80% of all Finns?
>because every scenario is basically "Russia carpetbombs/nukes major population centers with no regard to strategic importance because they're evil"?
And every single apartment building, school, etc. has a bomb shelter. Let them bomb buildings without value and get internationally condemned and their economy sanctioned to shit.

>Because with the exception of the PM the current government is a bunch of pussified libshits with no backbone?
Well thank fucking god they don't have the authority to surrender Finland to Russia and thank fucking god we still have people who would still fight.

>which the Finns seem to keep static even though the entire rest of their military is extremely mobile
What the flying fuck have you been reading?

>>31949377
You do realize that if your government officially surrenders and you continue to fight you're literally committing war crimes, right?

>>31949414
>Chechens
So you are comparing bands of slavic-sandnigger bandits with a population of which ~90% of the males are militarily trained?

If that were to happen, the Finns would put up one hell of gorilla campaign, something much worse than the Chechens or anything anyone else ever has.

>>31949446
>the only 4 large scale airborne operations ever conducted were wildly successful
Sure is.

>>31949462
Yeah and you do realise surrendering the nation to the enemy without so much as a fight would constitute treason. I mean, I would personally gun down our government if they tried to surrender just because the fucks and a few civilians got bombed.

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>>31949450
>national willingness to fight around ~80%
This can be easily reduced with few napalm strikes. You have no idea what are you talking about. Ukraine showed that modern warfare is a fucking slaughter.

>>31949476
Yeah I remember the napalm strikes did great to stop the VC

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>>31949476
>This can be easily reduced with few napalm strikes.
>Willingness to fight can be reduced with half-assed atrocities against civilians
Mate, what fucking century are you living in? This has never fucking worked. The Russians killed atleast a tenth of our population in anti-guerilla operations and people still fucking fought on.
>After the victory at Storkyro, Mikhail Golitsyn was appointed the governor of Finland. Finns began waging partisan warfare against the Russians. As retaliation, the Finnish peasants were forced to pay large contributions to the occupying Russians (as was the custom in that time). Plundering was widespread, especially in Ostrobothnia and in communities near the major roads. Churches were looted, Isokyrö was burned to the ground. A scorched earth zone several hundred kilometers wide was burned to hinder Swedish counteroffensives. At least 5,000 Finns were killed and some 10,000 taken away as slaves, of whom only a few thousand would ever return;[5] According to newer research the amount of those killed is closer to 20,000.[6] Thousands, especially officials, also fled to the (relative) safety of Sweden. The poorer peasants hid in the woods to avoid the ravages of the occupiers and their press-gangs.[7] Atrocities were at their worst between 1714–17 when the infamous Swedish Count Gustaf Otto Douglas, who had defected to the Russian side during the war, was in charge of the occupation.


>Ukraine showed that modern warfare is a fucking slaughter.
And Ukraine is/was a corrupt piece of shit military that could not even compare to Western forces. The East-Ukrainians are also still fucking fighting and their men keep taking up arms.
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014/05/how-corruption-guts-militaries-ukraine-case-study/84646/

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>>31949466
>If that were to happen, the Finns would
give up to have peaceful life under new government. Because for average civilian nothing will change after Russian forced colour revolution\coup. Except little groups of maniacs, who will be claimed as terrorists and hunted down, because they have zero experience in such things, and Russia hunts terrorists in forests of Dagestan on daily manner. It's not a fucking Red Dawn, you moron.

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>>31949476
Seriously.
>In a 2012 analysis Leonid Polyakov, another senior defense official, detailed the corrupt workings with remarkable candor. Chronic underfunding “enhanced the role of the human factor” in choosing among operational priorities. Ostensibly outdated equipment was sold “at unreasonably understated prices” in return for kickbacks. Officers even auctioned off defense ministry land. Gradually, Kyiv began requiring the military to cover more of its own costs, forcing senior officers into business, “which is…inconsistent with the armed forces’ mission,” and opened multiple avenues for corruption. Commanders took to “using military equipment, infrastructure, and…personnel [to] build private houses, [or] make repairs in their apartments.” Procurement fraud was rife, as were bribes to get into and through military academies, and for desirable assignments.

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014/05/how-corruption-guts-militaries-ukraine-case-study/84646/

>>31948306
In the first day of the war, russian aircrafts will destroy most of Finland's airfields and planes.
S-400 AA batteries will provide cover against any finnish plane that could take off.

The next move is invasion all along the 1340km border, using Russia numerical superiority to tie down the finnish army while Russia does whatever it wants.

Having gained air superiority, Russia just bomb the shit out of any resistance pocket. It might lose a few planes to finnish AA batteries but said batteries are then being destoyed as soon as their position is known.

I would say 1 week if the Russian are cautious.
3 days if they don't care about casualties.

>>31949468
And those were which?

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>>31949529
>In the first day of the war, russian aircrafts will destroy most of Finland's airfields
Yeah, destroy airfields after the airforce starts using highways as planned.
>and planes.
Ah, the magical Slavic plane-seeking bunker busters. Ingenious technology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pOkdmdHBsI
>S-400 AA batteries will provide cover against any finnish plane that could take off.
Completely ignoring the radar horizon and the multiple hundred km flight distance.
>The next move is invasion all along the 1340km border
Through forests, swamps, lakes, cliffs and hills. Sure, great plan. Totally forgot about the basics of military offensives, concentration of forces and whatnot.

It's almost like the Finnish defence force is more aware of possible threats than random /k/ommandos and Russians. It's almost like there's Nordic cooperation as well, but whatever.

>>31949529
The Finns compensate for this by distributing their aircraft to smaller road bases. You think they're just gonna leave their aircraft sitting in the open?

>>31949521
Kill yourself. I mean I know that krokodil or liver failure will anyway, but just speed it up and do it now.

>>31949528
It does not change radical difference between light mobile infantry ME style warfare and heavy mechanized warfare when both sides are trained and equipped to work with tanks, heavy artillery and UAVs.
>>31949573
>Ah, the magical Slavic plane-seeking bunker busters. Ingenious technology.
>What is intelligence? What is satellites?
>Completely ignoring the radar horizon and the multiple hundred km flight distance.
>Completely ignoring the fact that planes need to fly high to see anything and fact that Russians can deploy AWACS planes along with MiG-31 with their fucking energy beam weapon on a place where other has radars.

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>>31949624
>It does not change radical difference between light mobile infantry ME style warfare
Which is not going to be waged in Finland outside of specific recon / LRP teams? It's almost like the FDF is a conventional military or something.
>What is intelligence? What is satellites?
Neither are magic, dingus. If intelligence and satellites could see everything, we'd not even fucking have standing militaries.

>Completely ignoring the fact that planes need to fly high to see anything
Oh, it's like radars exist or that planes can actually fucking change altitude.

>Russians can deploy AWACS planes along with MiG-31 with their fucking energy beam weapon on a place where other has radars.
Yeah, magical fucking energy weapons that completely disable all radars at distances greater than even American HARM can fly.

You clearly have no fucking idea what you're talking about besides memes and bullshit, so I'll just go to bed.

One thing I have been wondering lately is how will we get the order to get into our brigade if the time comes. Because that is the number 1 flaw in our defense strategy.

>>31949521
>Because for average civilian nothing will change after Russian forced colour revolution\coup.
Nothing apart from an extreme plunge in living standards, human rights, employment, infrastructure, the economy etc. etc.

You dumb fuck.

>>31949658
>Because that is the number 1 flaw in our defense strategy.
What is? That you don't know exactly how and through what channels you will be called up?

You will be reached, that's all that matters.

>>31949658
Nykyinen liikekannallepanojärjestelmä on osa laajempaa puolustuksen valmiudenkohottamisjärjestelmää, joka perustuu alueellisen puolustuksen doktriiniin. Valmiutta pyritään kohottamaan joustavasti siten, että palvelukseen kutsutaan ne joukot, jotka ovat kulloisessakin tilanteessa tarpeen. Tätä varten yksiköt on jaettu käskytyseriin, joista osa kutsutaan palvelukseen jo valmiuden kohottamisen alkuvaiheessa, osa taas vasta, kun vieraan valtion epäillään aikovan ryhtyä laajamittaiseen hyökkäykseen alueiden valtaamiseksi. Valmiustiloja on neljä.

normaaliolojen valmius
tehostettu virka-apuvalmius
tehostettu alueellisen koskemattomuuden valvonnan valmius
strategisen iskun ehkäisyvalmius (SIETO-joukot)
strategisen iskun torjuntavalmius (SIETO-joukot)
alueiden valtaamiseen pyrkivän hyökkäyksen torjuntavalmius (ALTO-joukot)

Valmiutta nostettaessa puolustusvoimien sotilasläänit ja aluetoimistot toteuttavat käytännössä reserviläisten sekä pakko-otettavien ajoneuvojen kutsumisen palvelukseen. Joukkoja perustavat rauhanaikaiset joukko-osastot, sotilasläänit, puolustushaarat sekä aluetoimistot.[4] Tarvittaessa vain tietyllä alueella käytettävät joukot perustetaan. Käskykortit välitetään pääasiassa postitse.[5]

Alueellisen iskun torjunnan joukkojen täyden toimintakyvyn saavuttaminen vie nykytilanteessa useita viikkoja tai kuukausia. Tämän vuoksi myös näiden joukkojen kertauskoulutus aloitetaan joustavasti jo verrattain alhaisessa uhkatilassa. Asevelvollisuuslaki ja siviilipalveluslaki antavatkin mahdollisuuden kutsua reserviläisiä ja siviilivarantoon kuuluvia entisiä siviilipalvelusmiehiä koulutustarkoituksessa ylimääräiseen palvelukseen jo silloin, kun arvio uhkaavan kriisin olemassaolosta perustuu vielä ainoastaan salaisiin tiedusteluhavaintoihin. Siviilivarantolaiset koulutetaan tällöin omaa kriisiajan sijoitustaan vastaaviin väestönsuojelun tai sosiaalitoimen tehtäviin.

>>31949655
>Yeah, magical fucking energy weapons that completely disable all radars at distances greater than even American HARM can fly.
Actually, I'm talking about MiG-31 Zaslon radar, which, basically, so powerful that it can provide image of Finland airspace from border to border. Argument about radio horizon is not working here. Anything that flies above Finland will be detected. You can't relocate what left from your air-forces without being spotted. You can't support ground troops without being spotted.
Jesus Fucking Christ, guys, open fucking map and use fucking ruler to see distances. You don't understand how small Finland is.

>>31949710
>Mig-31 will simultaneously avoid AA, perform surveillance, hide from Finnish Radars and down Finnish planes
Ayyyy

>>31949693
The problem of deployment. We do not have even conscript garrisons on the eastern borders and if some Russian military exercise happens to cross the border how the troops well be ready to counter that threat?

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>>31949700
>mfw my brother emigrated to Finland and regularly texts me shit like this

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>>31949751
Is he going to / has he / will he serve?

>>31949700
Niin kuten tässäkin lukee systeemi ei vastaa enää nykyisen maailman vaatimuksia.

>>31949775
Kyllähän se vastaa kun noita valmiuksia kohotetaan tarpeen mukaan. Ainoa ongelma saattais muodostua siitä, että Suomen valmiustilassa olevat joukko-yksiköt, jotka kykenis taisteluun pikaisesti ei pystyisi estämään maahan tunkeutumista, mutta sellasta tilannetta, jossa keltanen valtio vaan yllättäen syöksyis rajan yli ei ole eikä tule tapahtumaan.

>>31949723
What AA? What radars? What Finnish planes?
Are you retard? Longest hand in Finnish arsenal is a ITO 96 which is, basically, Buk-M1. Are you implying that Russians don't know how jam their own fucking system? Russian AWACS and MiGs can fly over Russian territory and see whole Finland. And provide targeting data to heavy AA. No one will be able to take off without Russian permission.

>>31949821
Flying below the radar.

>>31949821
>Russian AWACS and MiGs can fly over Russian territory and see whole Finland. And provide targeting data to heavy AA

Nope. Russians dont have CEC. The AWACS can vector in migs to do the shooting, but AWACS and migs cant give target quality data to ground based sams.

>>31949729
>We do not have even conscript garrisons on the eastern borders
Karjalan Prikaati, Kainuun Prikaati, Immolla, Onttola, Maasotakoulu...

>>31950045
Onttola and Immola are 1 company each. Yeah maybe I was little overstating but they shut down Kontioranta just few years back

>>31949796
God bless you.

>>31949848
Kek, you again. Yous they can. It's their very purpose.

>>31949821

Guess we oughta buy them F-35s then

>>31949543
stop. hes going to bring up market garden because little do you know you are replying to lindybiege shitposting on /k/

>>31949848
I can't confirm or disprove that. Even with that, Russians can gather much more aviation than Finns. Some sources tell that MiG-31 can transfer data to ground, but not specified about targeting of missiles. Same with A-50M.

>>31950394
well that's exactly what I hoped for

Hopefully they bring Internet with them. Probably start of new wave of bad ass extreme metal bands

>>31948306
I don't know, but I'll come here and tell how many ryssä I've shot

Let's get the memes out of the way
>Russia will not hesitate to use every single PGM they own in finland
>Russian marines will do a landing near Helsinki
>Putin presses the big red button
>Russian troops mobilise completely undetectably and teleport to launch positions
>it'll be like winter war but in 2017
>every finn is worth five Russians
>there is a massive unknown and oppressed Russian minority who would rather live in a country with a lower quality of life
>post about Muslims
>Russians have infiltrated and bought a house around every single strategically important location in finland and each of these summer cottages houses a full company of backflipping spetsnaz
>tanks can drive through forests
>secret T-72's with turrets detached in underground facility
>rifle behind every reindeer
>JASSM attack on nuclear facilities near St petersburg
Did in cover everything?

>>31950868
lacking the "single motor rifle division in karelian isthmus means Finns could capture st petersburg right now" meme, it's a good one too

>>31948306

What Russian minority. Less than 1%. They all fit quite nicely in Fellman's field. Well area has been built a bit since civil war and there is a park now, but last time with 30k commies there was room to spare.

Majority these "Russians" immigrated to Finland because they were supposed to be Ingrian Finns. They bought with them a lot of amphetamine and heroin trading. Rest have come here because they don't want live in authoritarian state like Russia ruled by corrupt as hell midget.

>>31948460
>Military - by precious strikes

What? English motherfucker do you even speak it?

>And then Green man coming and taking control.

They don't have bases inside Finland like in Crimea or sizable Russian minority to cover their arses like in Donbass.

>>31948306
probably a 2 weeks, 3 at best

>>31949516
>The East-Ukrainians are also still fucking fighting and their men keep taking up arms.

Also 2/3rds of their equipment and 1/2 of the men are supplied from the Russian Army. Also with the exception of 2 or 3 token brigades that get non stop media exposure, the Russian army does all of the real fighting.

>>31949543
Operation Torch (airfield seizure, 20 minutes from jump to secured airfield, minimal casualties, entire battalion jumped)

Operations Husky 1 and Husky 2 (5700 people jumped, at night, into Gela Sicily. City seized in 3 days, minimal casualties)

Operation Avalanche (3700 people jumped, at night, into the Salerno area. Salerno and surrounding countryside seized in 3 days. Light casualties).

Operation Overlord (basically 2 entire *divisions* jumped at night into Normandy, seized the city in 11 hours with light to moderate casualties

Other guy was way off on numbers, there were 7 major (>2000 paratroopers) airborne assaults in WW2 alone. Of which all but Market Garden were wildly successful.

Then you have Operation Tomahawk in Korea (only major jump of the war), which was wildly successful.

Then you have Just Cause, which was wildly successful.

So out of 9 major combat jumps, 8 were wildly successful

>>31952946
>Also 2/3rds of their equipment and 1/2 of the men are supplied from the Russian Army. Also with the exception of 2 or 3 token brigades that get non stop media exposure, the Russian army does all of the real fighting.

Bingo. Almost everything coming out of Donbass is pure propaganda and misinformation.

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>>31951629
Thanks for the reality check.

You *are* related to this gent, I assume?

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Russian training and tactics have come a very long way since the Winter War.

Finland would have less than 2 days before Russian troops secured all strategic locations, and an interim authority was imposed.

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>>31955909
>Russian training and tactics have come a very long way since the Winter War.
Yeah and Finnish ones obviously haven't. Finnish troops were literally fighting in civilian clothing at the start of the war. The official uniform was a pair of pants, belt, rifle and a cockade. At the start of the Winter War, Finland was in absolutely no way prepared for war.

They'd run out of Russians first.

I just hope it long enough for me to return to the last of my ancestors and remove Slav like every good suomalaiset should!

>>31948306
They'done that since 1917.

>>31948306
yo what kind of atgm emplacements and handheld AT are the finns using?

>>31956746
NLAW (2500)
Spike MR (140 launchers, 500 missiles)
Spike ER (18 launchers, 200 missiles)
TOW-2A
TOW-2B
APILAS
M-72 LAW (A2, A5, EC LAW Mk. I, ASM RC)
95 S 58-61 (domestic recoilless rifle, some ~600mm RHA penetration after ERA with modern ammo)

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>>31948306

The Idea that NATO wouldnt intervene if Russia attacked an EU member state is laughable.

The rest of the short war that would ensue would be a formality.

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>>31949710

Zaslon-AM can at most track 24 targets and engage 6 of them simultaneously.
Also that 400km detection range your probably thinking of is only possible for a target with a huge RCS of 20m2.
For a target with a 5m2 RCS the detection range shrinks to about 280km.

Frontal RCS F-18: 3m2
Frontal RCS F-16: 1-2m2
Frontal RCS F-22: 0.0002-0.0005m2
Frontal RCS F-35: 0.0015m2

So please tell me again how a Mig-31 is gonna see everything thats flying over Finland.

>>31950362
>You again

Wut...

>its their entire purpose

They have not demonstrated this.

>>31957095
>280km
>Jesus Fucking Christ, guys, open fucking map and use fucking ruler to see distances. You don't understand how small Finland is.
And yeah, this
>Frontal RCS F-22: 0.0002-0.0005m2
>Frontal RCS F-35: 0.0015m2
is pure bullshit.

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>>31957095
Forgot pic

>>31957171

>is pure bullshit.

So what would be a good estimate of those RCS values in your mind?
And what detection range could a Zaslon achieve against those fighters?

>>31957208
>So what would be a good estimate of those RCS values in your mind?
Almaz and Suchoi has their own estimates and they are considered as laughable here. So, let's not trigger burgers with them. Even with that numbers answer on
>And what detection range could a Zaslon achieve against those fighters?
will be "not enough".
Su-35S with it's Irbis radar MAY has a chance with it's ultra-narrow search mode, but only if there will be L-band radar to give info where exactly to look. Anyway, Finland has no this assets, so it's not related to topic.

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>>31949466

>gorilla campaign

>gorilla

wat

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>>31957095
>Frontal RCS F-18: 3m2
>Frontal RCS F-16: 1-2m2
>Frontal RCS F-22: 0.0002-0.0005m2
>Frontal RCS F-35: 0.0015m2

>>31948853
Incorrect. Finland is a large transit country for Russia. Lots os stuff goes through it to St-Petersburg. It's a place where Russians open commercial companies to avoid taxes. It's a place where Russia sell wood. It's a trading partner of Russia with no strategical military value. Rich Russians use to buy property at warmer countirs, Czech, Spain, England. London - for the richest. Also it was quite indeendent even as part of Russian empire, so there are no large Russian minority. The scenario of this topic is unreal.

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>>31957843
>The scenario of this topic is unreal.

>>31957294
Guerilla = gorilla =guerilla. It's one of those inter-net jokes.

>>31948306
Why the fuck is this even a thread? It would be like asking how long Canada would be able to hold off a U.S invasion.

Literally as long as it takes C-7's to fly to all the major population centers its over. So probably about 4 hours as well, no contest.

>>31948306

Nice role playing thread.

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we will blow our powerplants if you guys dont help us :^)

We will go to hell together, ahh

>>31948354
>this isn't WW2

As far as Russian tactics are concerned it might be. Just check what kind of tactics they used in Georgia and Ukraine - the same old "deep battle".

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>>31948306
>flag of the Russian Federation
>copyrighted by some gay ass site
What?

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>>31959428
See you in the Zone, my Mongol friend.

>>31949591
>You think they're just gonna leave their aircraft sitting in the open?

Nope.

I think that the airbases are gonna be blown out and, with them, most of the logistics and radar needed for "optimum" operations.

Sure, some planes (let's say even most planes) are still around after the inital strike.
But in modern fighter aircraft alone, Russia outnumbers Finland 7 to 1.

What it means is that Russia can :

A) keep a around-the-clock force of about 100 modern fighter jets, which is enough to outnumber the whole finnish airforce by 2:1, which means the FAF can't operate at all on a specific portion of the front.

or

B) Spread 7 groups of 50 modern fighters all along the fron to prevent the FAF to make a sortie "en force" on any specific part of the front.

This only touches the subject of air interception, though.
Russia still got hundreds of attack aircrafts that, once the FAF is neutralized (or simply overcommitted), can be used to hit whatever ground target.

As I said, some losses are going to happen. But come one, it's Russia : life is cheap and old airplanes are plentyful if any bait is needed.

>>31948491
>Finlandization
So you guys stuck with the USSR because you were too afraid to just join NATO ?

>>31961346
Join NATO = lose all economic preferences of "can trade with both sides" club. That was very little club in Cold War time.

>>31961453
What advantage was there to even trade with the USSR ?
You export more to Sweden, Germany, USA and fucking Netherland than to Russia.
And if it wasn't for the petroleum, the same could be said of imports.

If anything, once the soviet machine gripped, that just made you dive.