What does /k/ think about the NH90 and how does it compare

Do helicopters even have a reason to exist? Or do they just continue through their own bureaucratic inertia?

>>31863076
Yes

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At least it looks nice.

>>31863076
Clearly we should replace them all with gliders carrying modular shipping containers that can deploy Super Gavins

>them Munros
Did they catch on to this from all the British Army stationed in Germany? Using one in the field is pretty oldschool though.

>>31863360
I get the joke

>>31863360
And make those gliders deployable from battleship-launched ballistic missiles.

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>>31862901
Had their problems initially, but they're pretty good now.

>>31862901
>What does /k/ think about the NH90

Helicopter itself is fine despite program being overall fuck up with massive delays and cost overruns. It's one of the worst run military procurement programs in history of mankind.

>and how does it compare to the Black Hawk?

Bit heavier, more modern and has better performance than Black Hawk.... but all that is negated by how fucking bad the supply chain is. Here in Finland it has had worse operational readiness rate than 35 year old beaten to death Mi-8's it replaced due to lack of spare parts. If some other country deploys more than handful of helicopters, spareparts deliveries will fall behind schedule, readiness rate sinks unless we start to use spares reserved for war time use. As result air crews and troops using the choppers can't train as planned and as result skills suffer.

It sets good example for a program involving the French. I think it was huge mistake to send Dassault RFI for Hornet replacement. I suspect industrial support for Rafale is just as bad. It is obsolete compared to F-35, but there is still risk that politicians who in the end make final call might select it.

>>31863941
>shit operational readiness for a multinational programs
>no sources, but it's the damn frogs fault! And Rafale is shit because reasons.

It's amazing how a country who keeps selling major weapon programs all over the globe, who worked with some of those clients for decades on multiples sales, who themselves could perfectly look elsewhere if they identified this country as the culprit for poor readiness of these helos/planes/subs you name it, is always the butt-monkey for primitively constucted /k/ criticisms.

Also a good deal of the NH90 initial problems, like the premature rust on the German (or Dutch ? can't exactly remember) naval ones, were sourced back to the italian assembly line shit QA.

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I really like the angular look of it

>>31862901

The only reason it's not the worst helo we ever bought is because the Tiger exists.

Fuck the NH90. Took far too long, cost far too much, doesn't do anything particularly better than its competitors (or if it does, falls short in others), is still working out kinks and Eurocopter is literally shit tier with the spare parts line because they keep sheparding every bit of it for France so they can use them as their "operational records" example country for marketing. Meanwhile, everyone else pays out the ass and gets to sit and fucking wait with sixty percent of the fleet grounded.

The exact same issues as came from the Tiger.

Shoulda just bought Blackhawks or Merlins from the start. Thank fuck we're replacing the Tigers with Apaches ASAP.

(Aussie if you're wondering)

EuroHawk is cool

>Not the RQ-4DE

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>>31865460
To be fair, the two situations aren't entirely comparable. The NH90 at least has the potential to surpass the Blackhawk if it can sort out it's shit. The Tiger was never a real competitor to the Apache. The latest Apache variants are fucking monsters.

Though the AH-1Z is also a possibility. It's not the equal of the Apache, but it's much cheaper and is the equal or better of the Tiger. It gets some shit for being based on the old SuperCobra, but I think that's sort of like giving the Super Hornet shit for being the offspring of the Hornet.

>>31865460
seems like 60 million each is a little expensive for a small utility chopper

>>31863941
>It sets good example for a program involving the French
so why there are thousand of french helicopers flying around the world without supply problems?
there are 40 years old gazelles flying just fine

Didn't Portgual have one of those which started itself on its own and started hovering by itself?

>>31865589

>The NH90 at least has the potential to surpass the Blackhawk if it can sort out it's shit

Enormously unlikely for its cost and absolute lack of modular components the Blackhawk has built up.

>>31865674
no, portuguese gazelles are very reliable

>>31865589
NH90 is a weapon with the potential to surpass the metal gear

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>>31863076
Cheaper to build than to R&D something better.

>>31865460
I heard that the tiger is being replaced by the super Cobra. What's your source?

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>>31865123

Finnish production line was sitting on it's thumbs several times for months because frogs refused to supply parts. That were known to be ready.

All the shit coming from Eurocopter France is dwarfed by asshattery coming from engine supplier. Same Safran group is engine supplier for Rafale, even if it different is subsidiary.

Why I'm singling out France. There were never major shipping schedule problems with German or Italian supplied parts. Might have been few minor snags.

>>no sources

I know bunch of people who work local manufacturer.

>>shit operational readiness for a multinational programs

Supply chain of NH-90 was... or more likely still is scaled on assumption that no client will ever use the product. Everything runs fine as long as everyone keeps peace time operational pace. Major deployment by someone, everyone gets issues and supplier countries will always prioritize themselves over clients.

>It's amazing how a country who keeps selling major weapon programs all over the globe, who worked with some of those clients for decades on multiples sales
>>31865648
>so why there are thousand of french helicopers flying around the world without supply problems?

Might have something to with the fact that those helicopters are established designs, not prototypes that are far more behind schedule than supplier says at time of making deal.

NH-90 deal was pretty much outright scam from the start.

French equipment is fine if deal is so small that there is no local content in deal, so it doesn't require industrial "partnership" of any kind and it is established design. Border Guards SuperPumas are fine, both ones purchased in early 90's and couple more they got recently as replacements for oldest Agusta-Bell 412's.

>>31865460
>Shoulda just bought Blackhawks or Merlins from the start.

Amen.

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>>31865761
>pic related
I need to masturbate AGAIN

>>31865453
SWEDEN YES!

Its like the F-35 of helicopters

>Product
Really good
>Program
Complete shit

>>31866268
>>Program
>Complete shit
Has there been a modern aircraft development and procurement program that hasn't been a shitshow?

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>>31866319
If you don't count all the political controversy about them, they've always done fine.

>>31866253

The Swedish involvment is even more fucked than the other nations. We were the only ones to order the high-cabin variant leding to additional costs and delays. And the reson for that is that swedish worksafety law requies that an avrage person can stand up inside the cabin...

Wait, it gets worse than that...

Then the navy wanted a helicopter too, and naturally looked at the frigate verision that alredy met all requiments to fly of ships and search for subs.

But the govt wasnt having any of that, they ordered more of the land based army variant that now is being modified by SAAB to work from ships and to hunt subs. This will cost much more than the frigate verision, and be far less capable.

SWEDEN FUCKING YES

>>31866319
Gripen did fine, stayed under budget and on time.

>>31865460
>Fuck the NH90
Norwegian here. Fuck the NH90

>>31865744
NH90's, dude. Not Gazelles

>>31863076
Stop smoking crack.

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>>31866319

>>31866319
Super Hornet, but that was a derivative of another design.

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>>31865460
Is it worse than Canada's procurement of the CH-148 Cyclone?
Over a decade late and they still don't have all the features that were initially promised

F-22 program went nicely

>>31867666
>an entire replacement fleet was ordered
>only 2 are in active army service, the rest are SAR only

I'm betting under trudumb we're gonna have Griffons falling out the sky instead of Seakings like with Chrétien. Better to pocket the money for their party as they usually do.

>>31865123
>Also a good deal of the NH90 initial problems, like the premature rust on the German (or Dutch ? can't exactly remember) naval ones, were sourced back to the italian assembly line shit QA.

The Dutch, German and France NH90s had this issue, but only the Dutch were from the wops line.
You know what they have in common? Their armies had pressured to the assembly lines to delivery ASAP.

>>31862901

Overpriced as fuck for not much gain over older and more contemporary designs.

Should have just bought Blackhawks with better shit like the Brits were gonna do pre-Lynx upgrades.

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>>31868405

Belgium's NH90s were meant to replace Seakings (used in transport & sea rescue). The delivered NH90 rust at an alarming rate, so it takes a lot of maintenance to keep them in good condition. All that sea spray isn't helping...

Pilots say the NH90 is a joy to fly, but the Seaking had a "to hell & back" reputation which the NH90 just can't match.

Is there any modern military vehicle procurement without fuck ups? Or ist nowadays only various degrees of fuckups

Kraut here:
- apparantly the floor panels were to fragile to handly a soldier in full combat load
- Soldier firearms supposed to go on the floor; would fly around loosely
- not possible to have a doorgunner due to weight limits
- can't be converted into SAR because to weak

These issues came up very early on and I have no information about them being resolved. Maybe the Bundeswehr has to resolve to get an old Flettner from the German Museum for SAR.

>>31868523

Bundeswehr ordered their first serial production batch in same specification as prototypes, while rest of buyers got theirs in intended serial production configuration. There is incompetence and then there Bundeswehr incompetence, basically same thing, but different order of magnitude.

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>>31866221
>French equipment is fine if deal is so small that there is no local content in deal
the brazilian military is doing just fine with the EC-725 and they are being assembled locally.
They use them to aid the Colombian government with humanitarian actions in farc controlled territory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_EC725

>>31865460

I'm sitting here wondering when something is going to go disastrously wrong with the Merlin or Wildcat. Both those programs are going suspiciously well for UK helicopter procurement.

>>31868828
>the brazilian military is doing just fine with the EC-725 and they are being assembled locally.

It is derivative of one most commonly used helicopters of all time. It is by all means everything that NH-90 isn't... it ain't prototype.

>>31868795
>There is incompetence and then there Bundeswehr incompetence, basically same thing, but different order of magnitude


In their defence, they needed them badly, like really badly. Most of their helo fleet is so old, spare parts have to be custom-made, which is extremely expensive

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>>31868828
Koreans seem to like their development of it

I wonder why they redesigned the intakes

>>31862901
I met a nurse who flew these while she was stationed in California. She said it was solid work.

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>>31868523
Speaking of which, Germany is sending NH90s and Tigers to Mali until at least mid 2018

>>31866244
>Just went and rewatched it
>Will never be part of an elite ODST search and rescue team plotting the Chief's landing coordinates
Just fuck my shit up

>>31872105
What ? Germany is in Mali ?