Russias shitty carrier versus one (1) Type 45 destroyer, who

>>31840495
You think a single carrier could or would ever lose to one single destroyer? Even Brazil's carrier could and would win against any given destroyer.

Having the ability to not only carry missiles and CWIS as well as planes gives you an incredible advantage. If you honestly think that two ships with equivalent firepower but one has 20+ planes would lose ever you need to hang yourself.

Seriously, I know this is a b8 thread but stop being fucking retarded.

The one that fires first.

HMS Duncan. Every day of the week. No contest.

>>31840818
What about thailand's carrier ?

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Would fuck you up ... this carrier is made to look after itself

>>31840881
Aster food.

>>31840868
Depends if the King fancies to play captain for a day.

>>31840894
12 Granits x 2 Aster = 24. Only 24 out of 48 cells lest to deal with Kuznetsov and its air group. Nah, not really. Considering 45 cant really do anything to Kuz it might just come in and ram it, lol.

>>31840495
If it's the current Kuz, then the silly hat destroyer will win. Su-33 can only carry Moskit while Mig-29KUB can carry Kalibr and Oniks.
Also it depends where they meet. The Kuz is heading for the Med, the silly hat destroyer can't into the Med.

>>31840913
the King just died recently

>>31840894
Granit is Titanium armored to withstand CIWS and shrapnel based warheads. Aster is shrapnel based. Unless they have a Kinetic kill warhead, it won't stop a Granit. And you need more than 1 miles to stop a Granit, if not, the momentum is enough to still hit the target.

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>>31840935
>>31840913
I know.

And this is the Thai Crown Prince.

Hookers & Cocaine Party Carrier when?

>>31840495
At that distance T45.

Too close for ship launched ASM's, 4.5 inch gun would wreck Kuznetsov in less than a minute. a pair of Lynx can take off and launch their sea skua to speed up the sinking.

Over the horizon they would both run out of offensive weapons before expanding their opponents defensive weapons. T45 is faster so closes range and sinks Kuznetsov with it's gun as before.

>>31840944
after the year of mourning

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>>31840495
A few fishing boats would be enough

>>31840948
>4.5 inch gun would wreck Kuznetsov in less than a minute
You do realize Kuz has nuts amount of AK630 that will turn 45 into something french in between 4.5's first and second shot?
>Over the horizon they would both run out of offensive weapons before expanding their opponents defensive weapons.
45 will run out quite a bit faster. It wont be able to touch Kuz even if all of its cells are packed with offensive weapons.

>>31840923

Aster was specifically designed to not need two missiles per intercept and because it's active seeking, there is much more time for a second volley in terms of guidance limits. So around 30-36 to deal with the air group, and good fucking luck dodging an Aster with old gen planes.

Not to mention that a Daring class could EWAR the fuck out of missiles to avoid needing as many physical responses too. They're packed with countermeasures.

In response it has 8 Harpoons and a bunch of Sea Skuas or Stingrays from the helos. So it likely won't have to much of a go in response missile wise, but after the air group is negated and the Granits are done, it'll likely just naval gun it to death from 20+km away.

>Kuz it might just come in and ram it, lol.

Except Daring is significantly faster and more agile than a carrier. If you want carrier ramming, go ask the Aussies.

>>31840926

>, the silly hat destroyer can't into the Med.

They've been there fucking dozens of times.

>>31840962
>Aster was specifically designed to not need two missiles
No missile in the world has 100% hit probability, m8. If you spend 1 missile per 1 AShM you have a non-zero chance to be hit with a 7-ton missile and die horribly.
>Not to mention that a Daring class could EWAR
Implying implications, not a good idea.
>In response it has 8 Harpoons
Kuz has air defence equivalent of something like regiment of Tor-M1s. Thats without CIWS.
>Sea Skuas or Stingrays from the helos
25km. Dead from Kinzhal instantly. Meanwhile Kuz has both helos and aircraft.
>Except Daring is significantly faster
No, its not. Agile yes, but not faster.

>>31840923
Sea viper allocates one Aster dart per target in most situations. And you can put as much armour on a missile as you like, it won't functionally survive a close proximity blast (or more likely direct impact) from an aster dart. There's a reason missiles don't get armour anymore.

The key strengths of T45 that often get ignored are the low radar profile and hugely powerful defensive suite. The amount of power that T45 can put into its jamming would make a mockery of 1970's Russian tech. Then there is the range of publically known defences and decoys that place T45 at the top of the pile as far as surface combatants go. Then there are the undisclosed systems that help each ship to cost £1bn each.

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>>31840962
>In response it has 8 Harpoons
Small island.

>>31840977
>Sea viper allocates one Aster dart per target in most situations.
No, its dont.
>nd you can put as much armour on a missile as you like, it won't functionally survive
Granit did.
>The amount of power that T45 can put into its jamming would make a mockery of 1970's Russian tech.
Or maybe it wont.
>Then there is the range of publically known defences and decoys that place T45 at the top of the pile as far as surface combatants go. Then there are the undisclosed systems that help each ship to cost £1bn each
Hurpadurp, 45 still cant physically touch Kuz. Its a pile of shit, but he cant. Pretty much end of story.

>>31840962
>If you want carrier ramming, go ask the Aussies
LOLed.
It's sad that our LHDs will never row fast enough to chase down a destroyer and cut it in two while following the traditionsof our navy. Any future RAN flat top needs a ram instead of a bow bulge.
IIRC, during the cold war Kittyhawk or Midway got pissed with a Russian sub that kept surfacing in front of it. So they accidentally on purpose ran over it.

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>>31840977
>Trying to jam a missile with home-on-jam

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>>31840961
>You do realize Kuz has nuts amount of AK630 that will turn 45 into something french in between 4.5's first and second shot?

T45 is not LCS. For all the complaining about modern warships not having battle ship armour, they are armoured. you're not going to do much with 30mm.

>45 will run out quite a bit faster.

Of offensive weapons? of course it will it has 8 harpoon, it's an area defence destroyer not a carrier. Of defensive weapons, 48 missiles is plenty to deal with 12 asm's and a handful of planes.

>It wont be able to touch Kuz even if all of its cells are packed with offensive weapons.

The sylver a50 tubes in T45 are not the strike length a70 version that can fire SCALP (naval storm shadow).

>No missile in the world has 100% hit probability, m8

Of course not but Aster is as close as you'll get at sea, and even with a surprise engagement from the horizon sea viper has time to engage observe and engage again if need be. It is of course programmed to launch multiple missiles if there wont be time to re engage.

>>31840999
Thinks this obvious problem hasn't been solved by an even more obvious solution.

see

>Then there is the range of publically known defences and decoys that place T45 at the top of the pile as far as surface combatants go. Then there are the undisclosed systems that help each ship to cost £1bn each.

>>31840984
This whole post reeks of upset vatnik.

>>31841011
>For all the complaining about modern warships not having battle ship armour, they are armoured. you're not going to do much with 30mm.
They arent armoured, m8. All modern ships smaller than LCS/Carrier are made of tinfoil. 30mm will shred the fuck out of it.
>Of offensive weapons?
Of both, it needs half of its defensive weapons just to deal with Granits.
>Of course not but Aster is as close as you'll get at sea
As close as you'll get means less than 100%. Which means 2 missile per Granit.

>>31841020
>This whole post reeks of upset vatnik.
Nice ad hominem there, ran out of arguments?

>>31841020
>Thinks decoys can fool a missile designed to shit on decoys and chose targets all by its own
This whole post reeks of upset small island.

>>31841020
>Thinks this obvious problem hasn't been solved by an even more obvious solution.
Solution is so obvious that you cant even name one.

>>31840971

>No missile in the world has 100% hit probability, m8. If you spend 1 missile per 1 AShM you have a non-zero chance to be hit with a 7-ton missile and die horribly.

Congratulations on not reading the full sentence.

It's one Aster per missile, if it misses THEN you fire a second. Because it's active seeking, it has that time available in the engagement window for how many can be guided at a time. It's the same thing that makes SM-6 so good that Aster has enjoyed for a while. Active seekers are fucking god tier for anti-air work.

I also love this constant assumption that "But some SAMs might miss!" while saying "EVERY ASM WILL ALWAYS HIT!"

>Implying implications, not a good idea.

Except that yes, it does have a significant EWAR and countermeasures suite and EW has been a factor in basically every naval encounter since it was invented. Implying that Russian missiles somehow are immune to them is even more of an "implication".

>No, its not. Agile yes, but not faster.

Kuznetsov maxes out around 29 knots. The Daring class have hit at least 32 already. It's faster.

>Kuz has air defence equivalent of something like regiment of Tor-M1s. Thats without CIWS.
>25km. Dead from Kinzhal instantly. Meanwhile Kuz has both helos and aircraft.

Airgroup won't live against a Daring, so saying the same in response hardly helps.

As others have said, the most likely outcome is both defeat each others missiles/aircraft, and then the destroyer just shells the fuck out of it.

>>31840495

How do the Ruskies even fucking spot or get targeting data onto it?

Their AEW and anything unknowingly straying too close would get shrecked by an Aster. Past that, good fucking luck finding something the radar size of a small fishing boat with obselete mechanical radars.

Actually locating these new RCS ships is the step that /k/ always forgets.

>>31841024
>They aren't armoured, m8

I can assure you that major surface combatants in the RN are not made of tinfoil. 30mm (especially at more than 1-2km) isn't going to worry the crew. Asides from the guys who have to stay on the bridge instead of the ops room. Even then, if they stay behind the glass they have a decent chance.

>Of both, it needs half of its defensive weapons just to deal with Granits.

We have already established how sea viper works. the 12 Granit would take up 12 - 14 Aster darts.

>As close as you'll get means less than 100%. Which means 2 missile per Granit.

did you not even read my whole post?

>even with a surprise engagement from the horizon sea viper has time to engage observe and engage again if need be. It is of course programmed to launch multiple missiles if there wont be time to re-engage.

>>31841032
>if it misses THEN you fire a second
Lol.
>"EVERY ASM WILL ALWAYS HIT!"
The difference is that AShM target is a giant warship moving at minuscule speed.

>>31841039
Satellites.

>>31841032
>It's one Aster per missile, if it misses THEN you fire a second
No, its not. Its a high supersonic target, radar horizon is still radar horizon.
>I also love this constant assumption that "But some SAMs might miss!" while saying "EVERY ASM WILL ALWAYS HIT!"
Nah, i assume guys on 45 wont be dumb enough to to shoot less than 2 missiles per Granit.
>Except that yes, it does have a significant EWAR
No, it is still implying implications, m8. What you say is basically HA muh ewar would fuck you up. Maybe it would or maybe it wont. Which means not an argument.
>Airgroup won't live against a Daring
It will, easily. It does not have missile capacity to engage both missiles and planes.

>>31841028
>Solution is so obvious that you cant even name one.

Join the navy and i'll tell you. otherwise you'll have to use your imagination.

HOJ is far from the trait you think it is, it was a 20th century solution to a 20th century problem.

>>31841040
>I can assure you that major surface combatants in the RN are not made of tinfoil.
They are.
>We have already established
No we did not.
>did you not even read my whole post?
Yes, you miss several extremely simple facts about how radars and shape of the Earth work. It wont have time to engage 12 granits, see if they were hit and reengage.

>>31841049
Well, then join the navy and come back to make claims you make, mkay?

>>31841032
>Kuznetsov maxes out around 29 knots. The Daring class have hit at least 32 already. I

Should also be mentioned that Kuznetsov can't hit those speeds with a weapons load let alone an air wing. It cant sustain anywhere near that speed for a considerable amount of time. Mid 20's sprint then sustaining 19-22 is more likely.

Meanwhile T45 will chase you at 30 for as long as it has fuel because of the based IEP.

>>31841042

>The difference is that AShM target is a massively RCS'ed EW surrounded ship that the Russians don't have any reliable tracking data on or knowledge of where to exactly shoot to be aiming in the right direction to find at all.

Fixed that for you. If you think that the carrier's crew will just look at a radar screen, spot it and then fire with precision, then you are deluded. Modern naval warfare is about information flow, and the carrier won't have jack shit of that for knowing where it's hiding out there. Russian doesn't have an Aegis-like system of sharing targeting data.

They'd be firing into the blind at vague directions. The onus on accuracy is on them, not the destroyer.

>>31841044

>Makes thread about 1 v 1
>Has to bring in other elements to back it up

I accept your conceeding then.

>>31841046

>No, its not. Its a high supersonic target, radar horizon is still radar horizon.

Then you need to learn more about how modern air defenses work. Go watch some videos on how Aegis works. PAAMS is very similar, except with active seekers, same as the USN is doing with SM-6 now.

>Nah, i assume guys on 45 wont be dumb enough to to shoot less than 2 missiles per Granit.

Or they'll do exactly what Aster is designed to do instead instead of your arbitrary decisions on its capability.

>Maybe it would or maybe it wont. Which means not an argument.

In which case you need to stop trying to imply that Granit would always bear it and always be on target to need anything fired at it at all.

>It will, easily. It does not have missile capacity to engage both missiles and planes.

Again, you seem under the belief that every aircraft will know exactly where and when to not get an Aster-30 up their tailpipe when they unexpectedly discover it. If at high, it'll see them first. If at low, they'll find it by surprise. Modern AAW you don't just fly up to casually.

>>31840495
>Russian navy vs. Anything
Given their track record, the odds are already stacked against the Russians.

>>31841057
I already did. You expect me to just come on this shitty board and post stuff that I can literally go to prison for? yeah, no.

They would both lose power before engagement.

>>31841068
>massively RCS'ed
So easier to lock on? Okay.
>EW surrounded
Se even more easy to lock on? Okay.
>don't have any reliable tracking data on or knowledge of where to exactly shoot to be aiming in the right direction
That's what applies to the small island's navy.
>Makes thread
I didn't.
>other elements
Satellites are a legit part of Granit targeting system.
>>31841069
Track record, as in making the USN run away with its tail between its legs off the coast of India back in 1971.

>>31841086
Sure thing m8. Also gorilla warfare.
>Then you need to learn more about how modern air defenses work
MAGIC! They make radar waves go around corners and then come back.
>Or they'll do exactly what Aster is designed to do
What you say it is designed to do.
>In which case you need to stop trying to imply that Aster would always bear it and always be on target to need anything fired at it at all.
>Again, you seem under the belief that every aircraft will know exactly where and when to not get an Aster-30
Oh yes, its range is known, as well as radar horizon distance.

Why is this vatnik getting so upset? It's a make-believe scenario, Britain will never touch these Russian ships anyway.

Why is this small island getting so upset? It's a make-believe scenario, Britain will never touch these Russian ships anyway.

>>31840495
It all boils down to one question.

>Can the carrier deploy the Gopniks in time?

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>>31841105
>Track record

>>31841105
you literally don't have a clue about how naval engagements work. Jamming in the 21st century across frequencies and bands with AESA radars and with DEDICATED jamming hardware and decoys does not make a ship easier to hit. sure you might suddenly become aware of its presence through ELINT but you are never going to get a close enough fix to come close to hitting the target.

On top of that there is the extensive RCS reduction measures applied to T45. Then we have floating and airborne decoys.

Meanwhile Granit (which has no satellite datalink btw, the fact that you think it does says a lot about where you're getting your knowlege from) has a long series of hoops to jump through.

1. It needs to be launched on the right bearing to start.

2. It needs to pop up and locate the target by scanning the area directly in front of it then begin turning from side to side to extend its search

3. assuming the missile has burnt through the jamming it somehow needs to sustain a data link with the other missiles in a heavy jamming environment.

4. as soon as Sea Viper identifies a vampire it will automatically defend itself, the first aster 30 dart will be launched seconds after the Granit climbs above the horison. The Aster 30 will reveal all the other missiles with its active radar and two way data link. Another 11 Aster 30 will be in the air 11 seconds later, seeking out the missiles outside of the radar horizon. Granit now needs to find it's targets and not get destroyed.

5. Assuming all the missiles magically are on target, below the radar horizon, then still need to come over the horizon and use their radar to find the ship's exact location, they will now be overwhelmed with jamming but be able to make out several contacts. All of those contacts will be false. And there is a high probability the rest of the engagement would be a passive victory for T45.

1/2

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>>31841153
a nuuuuuuuuuuuuu cheeeki breeeeki

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>>31840495
Can the Bong destroyers even make it out of port yet? Vatniks would stomp them.

>>31841168
6. assuming the missiles were launched on the perfect bearing by a carrier. Assuming the lead missile was able to find a target and not be destroyed. asuuming the lead missile can form a data link with the other missiles. Assuming those missiles are then not destroyed by active radar Aster darts and assuming the targets selected are not deliberate decoys. Then the 12 magical missiles just need to close from radar horizon of around 45KM for Type 45 at Mach 1.6. Giving Sea viper 90 seconds to launch its 12 missiles, observe and potentially re-engage multiple times.

7. Then there's CIWS and soon lasers.

>>31840944
>>31840913
Someone'd better be careful or they're going to wind up charged with disparaging the royal family...

>>31841056
that's fake

>>31841168
>>31841189

It should also be mentioned that this is all publically disclosed capability.

>>31841168
>>31841189

you rekt him so hard he's abandoned this shitty thread. nice.

>>31840818

Brazilian carrier has no CIWS and flies fucking skyhawks.

arent you amerifats waiting for russia to save you from hillary?

>>31841202

Where can one find this information?

>>31841168
>>31841189
Except that the missile is designed not only to shit on decoys, but to chose and assign the targets to other missiles in the volley all by itself.
>Granit (which has no satellite datalink btw
It does.
>Microscopic missile with microscopic seeker will reveal a volley of AShMs just from being fired in that general direction
Keep dreaming. You'll struggle to detect and attempt to intercept even one.
>all the missiles magically are on target, below the radar horizon
This applies to small island's missiles.
>then still need to come over the horizon and use their radar to find the ship's exact location
Not before approaching the target to the point something ore precise than satellite guidance is required.
>Assuming the lead missile
There is no such a thing as a "lead missile" in a volley of Granits. Assuming small island's ship can find a target, assuming small island's ship can lock on it, assuming small island's missile launched in the general direction of a target will find anything with its microscopic seeker, assuming small island's ship can preform ECM that will not end up as mere further targeting data for the missiles. Then the magical small island's ship just need to launch 24+ small island's missiles from radar horizon of around 45km at a volley of maneuvering targets, giving small island ship's crew 80 seconds to abandon the ship before the impact of the first missile. Then there's the fact that missiles that big and fast can tank 1-3 SAMs.

>>31841252
Small islander got rekt so hard he had to samefag.

>>31841105
>Track record, as in the USN
No, the track record as in Russians sailors are only good for crabfood and starting revolutions.

>>31841325
So how does it feel running with your tail between your legs from Russians sailors, who are only good for crabfood and starting revolutions?

>>31841335
I've never run away from Russian sailors, I doubt anyone ever has.

"small island" "small island" "small island" "small island" "small island" "small island"

its like a scratched record in here...

>>31841348
So you are not an American. Because running away from Soviet Navy is what the USN did off the coast of India in 1971.

>>31841361
>comparing USN track record to Russian navy track record
Do you enjoy being humiliated?

It's ok, Russia isn't a seafaring nation, it's a big land power, but drop it dude, Russia has always sucked at naval warfare.

>>31841302
Which bit would you like to know more about? there's not exactly one web page that has it all neatly written out.

Physical books are usually the best secondary sources for these things.

>>31841322
>people agree i'm stupid so they must be the same person

kek

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>>31841357
>its like a scratched record in here...

>>31841374
>Running away with your tail between your legs from a navy of a not seafaring nation
Do you enjoy being humiliated?
>>31841431
>Small islander is mad, so everyone is stupid
Kek.

>>31841198
No, its a picture of a volcanic eruption. Crazy shit.

>>31841068
I don't know jackshit about naval warfare. What I do know is that the coolant of the reactors of former rorsat sattelites is still making problems today as space debris, and that when I read about it these sattelites were intended to monitor naval traffic. That was in the 70s. They've probably come up with a replacement by now. I'd guess any nation with a larger space program has.

>>31841361
>coast of India in 1971
Is this some grand, age defining naval battle? A secret Trafalgar, Tsushima, Midway?

Should we reassess our opinion of Russia as a naval power because of what happened in 1971?

>>31841479
How could there be a battle is the US ran away with its tail between its legs like a bitch.

>>31841489
So, no is the answer.

And Russian seamanship remains a joke of international proportions.

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>>31841357
He is upset because the largest country in the world is shit compared to our geographically tiny island.

- largest and most powerful empire the world has seen

-Financial capital of the world

-bigger Economy than Russia (russia isnt even top 10 kek)

-more combat experience

-better standard of living

-better health

(better in pretty much every meaningful way actully)

oh and we spend more on defence than Russia, that makes them really mad.

So for our tiny island to cuck you so hard you must be pretty ashamed? But dont worry you have thousands of rusting T72's in warehouses and pilots that fly once a month so you're still a little relevant.

Enjoy the sanctions we helped impose on you.

>>31841563
Now that this thread has devolved into "my country's better than yours", I declare everyone the loser.

>>31841479
>>31841506
The Soviet Navy blockaded first a Brittish, then an American carrier from starting shit in India during the Pakistan-India war. Said blockade also stopped any further intervention from the US, China and possibly the UK.

Of course a cherry picked image like >>31841165 doesn't mention it.

>>31841585
Nothing like this happened.

>>31841601
Believe whatever you want Americlap

>>31841011
>For all the complaining about modern warships not having battle ship armour, they are armoured.

No, they're not.

>>31841585
>a standoff in the Cold War
Woah man, you're blowing my mind.

World history rewritten, yo.

>>31841774
clear evidence that Russia stronk.

After all, standoffs where one side or the other withdrew never happened in the 70's. Like the standoff during the Yom Kippur War, which clearly never happened.

Honestly, the guy going on about "small islands" and how mighty Russia is is pretty comical, in terms of how sad it all is

>>31841755
yes they are.

Its not like a traditional warship where there is armoured plate, but there are large areas of the ship that have extra reinforcement. This can be anything on a scale from empty space deliberately left to act as a firewall or spaced armour if you will, extra protection and material used on joints, kevlar, honeycomb rubber and other protective materials stuffed into cavities and key areas.

In addition to increasing the lifespan of the ship and the usability in rough seas this gives the obvious benefit of survivability after bomb hits , rockets, near misses. No one is building ships designed to shurg off an ASM, but they are certainly building them to make it easier for the crew to survive and escape after being hit by one.

There are plenty of interesting articles and books about how ship design changed after the Falklands.

Tl;dr - 30mm won't disable a Type 45 or any other major surface combatant of the Royal Navy.

>>31841563
>largest and most powerful empire the world has seen
Third most maybe. US, Mongols, then the limeys.

>>31841905
US is not an empire and even for the sake of argument it would not be considered the largest.

Mongolia had the largest continuous empire, everything was connected. But the British empire was bigger (and was far more populated). This is without counting the seas and oceans that the Royal Navy controlled.

>>31841905
please, go do some basic-fact-checking before you make silly claims.

#1: British Empire, 1920: 35.5 million square km.
#2: Mongol Empire, 1290's: 24.0 million square km.
#3, russian empire, 1895: 22.8 million square km.

US, current: 9.83 million square km.
If it were an empire, (which its not really considered to be being a democratic union of states), then it would be the 12th largest in history, just a little smaller than the Portuguese empire in the 1890's.

is it also the "Most powerful?" of course not. US has that one simply because technology has moved on, it has force projection unimaginable 100 years ago. Even India or Pakistan are arguably more powerful today than the British Empire was at its peak, simply as they are nuclear-armed. On the other hand, the british empire in 1918 was more powerful than the US or Mongolia at their peak/current when compared to their contemporaries.

>>31841980
>>31841905
>>31842053
USA=Hegemony

It's not the exact same thing as walking up and saying "Cheerio, you negroes have a european governor now", or laying waste to entire nation and killing all the noble families, but it produces similar results.
>>31841980
Also ironic that you would count the Royal Navy as controlling all the seas and oceans it traveled, and not give the same benefit to the US.

>>31842087
sorry to break it to you, but, outside of the US, people would laugh in your face if you told them that the us has "hegemony" over them.

the US has an awful lot of influence, but not nearly as much as you imagine.

>>31841429

Royal Navy tactics, how the Type 45 and her systems work (to the technical detail that you've described) etc.

>>31840881
Is that carrier functional though? Considering it is operated by Russia.

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>>31840495
mighty japan freet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9-BmGvqiU

>>31842127
"Type 45 Destroyer Haynes Owners' Workshop Manuals"

Is a good starting point. It was written by one of the designers of the ship. Much is classified but he lets you know when he's leaving things out. Plenty of good pictures and diagrams too. As it was written in 2013 IIRC some things will be out of date by now, lasers, ABM, Harpoon etc.

>>31841361
The Soviet Navy, Russian Navy and presoviet Russian naval history humiliates itself lol.

>Russian navy threatened by British fisherman

>>31842053
>If it were an empire, (which its not really considered to be being a democratic union of states),

What is manifest destiny?

The USA only gets to call itself a "democratic union of states" in that it has been more diligent than other empires in its extermination and dispossession of the natives.

>>31840818
>Even Brazil's carrier could and would win against any given destroyer.

That sounds unlikely. The Brazilian carrier is just one huge target, a single hit would disable it instantly. It already spends 10 months a year docked under repairs and never sailed without breaking down or catching on fire, a single hit and it's all over.

>>31841901
Speaking all this shit doesn't make it any more true

>>31842800
and you sticking your fingers in your ears going "LALALALACANTHEARYOU" doesnt make the opposite true either.

and you know what? That guy is providing information. If you want to claim that modern destroyers are paper-thin and will be turned into a colander by a 30mm round, how about you provide some evidence for your rather extraordinary claim?

>>31842873
Providing information?

You said modern ships are armored. You provided no source and blustered ever since.

>>31842800

Neither does pretending a CIWS has an effective range anywhere near that of a full size gun.

>>31842959
Never said that

Stick to what I said, not what you wish I'd said

>>31842883
That being said, huge ships like Nimitz or Kuznetsov are indeed armoured. IIRC, Nimitz can tank a couple big AShMs hitting its reactor zone and Kuznetsov can tank a couple Mk.48 torpedoes.

>>31842994
At what point are you going to realise that saying something doesn't instantly make it true.

If you want to make a point, back it up.

>>31842994 Is not me. I am >>31841901

>>31843008
I am backing all my points up with explanations. it is simply not possible to provide blueprints for modern warships.

Your logic is that warships are no better protected than civilian ships. That's laughable.

I'd even wager that 30mm would not even disable a civilian warship of comparable displacement to a warship.

>>31843281
You seem to be mistaken that your explanations are worth anything. You're no authority at all.

You're bullshitting. Till you can support what you say, that's all you're doing.

Enough shitposting. The Type 45 doesn't even have enough Harpoons to take down a fully loaded Kuz. Kuz wins by pure attrition.

>>31843290
>The potential vulnerability of aluminum, which loses strength
under moderately high temperatures, has long been recognized by the U.S.
Navy. The decision to provide a steel superstructure in the new ARLEIGH
BURKE (DDG-51) class destroyers was made long before the Falklands
conflict, as was the decision to improve survivability of certain existing classes of combatants by the installation of Kevlar armor and fire
retardant insulation in key spaces in these ships.

Page 60

Lessons of the falklands, Department of the navy, DC20350

Suck my dick retard.

>>31842971

I'm someone else, who agrees that the 30mm cannon would be somewhat effective even with HE rather than AP rounds (if nothing else, it would destroy everything on the superstructure, including sensors).

I'm just wondering why this is possibly relevant when the deck gun can accurately fire 4.5" shells at a rate of ~25 /min from more than four times the range.

>>31843447
>They're made of steel and not aluminium

>This makes them armored

Yawn

>>31843447
>They're made of steel with fire-resistant features like insulation and kevlar

>This is somehow going to stop thousands upon thousands of 30mm rounds shredding the entire superstructure

>>31843557
>>31843579
>Kevlar armor is not armour

I'm done. you bitch and whine about no sources and can't handle my explanations then the moment you get what you wanted they toys leave the pram and you cant handle it.

Warships are armoured, they are better protected than civilian ships, they are reinforces for tougher operating conditions and fire / flood survivability.

And if you can't handle it i don't care - it's still true. Feel free to have the last post, i wont read it and i'm still right.

>>31841585
The carrier groups didn't "run away" because they were scared of the big bad Russian navy. They left because they decided nothing happening in Pakistan or India was worth starting WW3 over.