Could the 3rd Reich win WW2 if they had 150 >MiG-21bis (1972;

No. No wonderweapon could have saved the doomed evil fucksticks.

Only if they used them not as weapons but specifically to demonstrate their technological capabilities and then offer peace.

>>31778657
>and then offer peace
>implying the Nazis started the war

wew jew....

>>31778621
I don't know, 150 mig-21s could have drasticly changed the battle's of Britain and the Atlantic. If they had unlimited anti ship missiles I would say yes, the outcome of the war would have been different (I.e. we nuke Germany into the stone age over a long arduous process)

>>31778621
>wonderweapon
>fat man
>not a ww

The Third Reich needed trucks, winter clothing, canned food, fuel, oil, medicine, walky talkies, and freedom of action in the field.

>>31778690
>we nuke Germany into the stone age
and how would you ave gotten the bombers there with Mig interceptors patrolling the skies?

>>31778670
>implying they didnt

>>31778690
battle of britain was lost because Goering let it get out of control into genera city bombing.

if he had good intelligence on where the airfields, radar, and airplane factories were. stayed in france to keep the airplanes on mission. Then they stood a chance of knocking out the RAF.

>unlimited ammo
How difficult would it be to fit a IR missile like the R-60 on to a Bf 109?

>>31778725
well they did not. fuck you enternal jew.

>>31778709
Because the Mig-21 has shit range and Germany still would have been delayed in a ground invasion of Britain, and any invasion of the america's (necessary to have a forward base) would have delayed them.

>>31778729

>How difficult would it be to fit a IR missile like the R-60 on to a Bf 109?

OP here. didn't mean it like that. No you don''t have millions of missiles that you then can strap to other planes. I meant ammo and fuel aren't a bottleneck and are pruduced faster than you can shoot them, that's all.

>>31778749
doesn't explain anything. Nazis built submarine bunkers in France that boggle the mind. a few air fields on the french coast would have been outright cheap compared to that.

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>>31778670

>>31778728
Germany didn't only need to win the battle of Britain, they needed to win it decisively and with few losses so that they could focus their aviation effort against shipping. If they had total air superiority for a week it wouldn't have mattered when the US was pumping out thousands of planes each month and giving them to allies.

>>31778776
I don't know what you are talking about, but building airfields close enough to attack the Manhattan Project (ie inside the US) would not have been easy in a short time frame, even with 150 Mig-21s.

>>31778781

The American planes wouldn't even have been needed. The British plane industry was outproducing Germany by a massive margin by that point anyway.

>>31778802
misunderstanding. if you have airfields on the French West cost every 200-300 miles (and according to need the souther med coast etc.) there is no way US bombers could ever deliver a nuke to germany. attacking US proper is just stupid. maybe with a bunch of F-117s or Tupolev Tu-22Ms it could be attempted but still pretty pointless.

>>31778749
Mig21s with internal fuel only. would have had to operate from Dunkirk to have any loiter time and reach most of England.

>>31778870
You're absolutely right a plane delivered nuclear weapon would not be viable. Still you could probably SVIED a 10 ton Little Boy to great success.

>>31778882
>and reach most of England.

not the point bro. I think you'd use the planes to prevent an aerial bombing campaign and invasion as well as to sink ships. using them to attack and invade yourself is stupid.

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>>31778729
Don't know about something modern like the R-60, but early models of the Sidewinder (or a K-13, to keep the Russian theme) required very little modification to the carrier plane, just some cables to fire it and to get the lock on sound. Also were very simple in terms of electronics, as you can see in pic related, which is the seeker and electronics of a K-13.

>>31778922
to do that, you need to knock them out at the airfield, port, and factory.

>>31778670
>What was appeasement

>>31778964
>to do that, you need to knock them out at the airfield, port, and factory.

in a perfect world sure. in a more perfect world, you'd kill the future workers building the planes in their cribs. but this isn't a perfect world. interceptors/fighters are meant to intercept/fight, no?

Maybe if Hitler got his head blown off in December of 1941...

>>31778984

Wanna know how I know you're Jude?

>>31779003
allies abandon daytime bombing altogether.

MI5, OSS, partisans put radio beacons near targets.

night bombing missions guided by radio beacon.

your migs are now desperately trying to find bombers in the dark. your IR missile might not even lock onto a radial engine.

allies just Dresden you constantly. your interceptors are only a little more effective.

>>31779011
nah, hitler would have needed to be removed from any real power before the invasion of poland.

Annexing Austria put them on the bad side of france and england. sending them into another alliance with Russia. though the situation was not un-salvageable. IF the germans had just waited. allowing Stalin to start the war.

>>31779011
Wouldn't have done much good, at least not for the Nazis. If Hitler had died, they would've ended up with somebody equally incompetent like Goering or Himmler.

The highest ranking decent officer I can think of would've been Guderian and he was pretty far down the chain, and god only knows if he'd have been any good commanding the whole war effort anyway.

>>31778736
And you know where to go.

>>31779055
you do realize the intercepting and aerial battles are happening on the french west coast in this sceanario right? far far away from Germany.

>>31778609
This is the stupidest thread I've seen here in a long time.

kys

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>>31778609

>>31779086
nope. tell me Saujude.

>>31779086

lol?

If anything you should go back to plebbit or whatever faggot shithole you came from for sperging out about a different opinion on fucking 4chink

>>31779047
Wanna know how I know you're a sperm chugged?

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>>31779055
>This entire post

>>31778670
some how, some way, Germans are responsible for everything bad to ever happen

>>31779180
because your shnobel tells you?

>>31779111
>>31779110
>>31779180
samefag

>>31779345
yidd

>>31778609
>unlimited fuel/ammo for them?
With that - sure. Man, fuel and ammo is 90% of victory in every war.
They could literally annihilate allies bomber forces. After such devastating losses they would ask for peace.

If someone gave them the cost equivalent of the migs in trucks and winter clothing it would have been more useful.

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>>31779345
Nope

>>31779583
how would that stop UK/US bombing onslaught from the west/south? with ultimate air superiority there they would be cut out from the war for the most part leaving the Nazis only to fight Russia. without the bombing raids in Germany happening, this would free major ressources for the whole war effort.

>>31779629
>use mobile

>use computer

profit.

>>31779812
You caught me.

not sure if as retarded as OP or just plain stupid

>>31778609

No, 150 interceptors is not enough to turn the tide of the war. They get killed on their airfields just like Me-262s.

>>31778609
150 no
200 yes

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>>31778609
Yeah if they have unlimited ammo and fuel they'll be fine

>>31779561

He didn't specify unlimited spare parts. The MiG-21s go on a rampage until they break down, but in the end don't significantly change the outcome of the war.

>>31779958

200 MiGs aren't killing 1000 combat aircraft each(that's just American production, adding the UK's and Soviet Union's almost doubles the numbers).

Even an infamously rugged plane like the MiG-21 is going to spend most of its time on the ground where it will be no more difficult to destroy than any other aircraft.

Even assuming Germany can for the most part hold off the western allies and Soviets they have until '46 or '47 until Uncle Sam has jet bombers of his own and turns German occupied territories into a parking lot with nuclear weapons.

>>31780025
>200 MiGs aren't killing 1000 combat aircraft each(that's just American production, adding the UK's and Soviet Union's almost doubles the numbers).

the US sent 200k planes over?

> they have until '46 or '47 until Uncle Sam has jet bombers of his own

>1st gen US bombers have anything on MiG21

>>31779964
>He didn't specify unlimited spare parts.

consider it specified then.

>>31780067
>the US sent 200k planes over?

>1st gen US bombers have anything on MiG21
>implying 150 MiG-21s are going to be stopping the thousands of B-36s nuking the shit out of Germany

>>31780164

>the US sent 200k planes over?

The US still hadn't fully mobilized by the end of the war, with Japan out of the way they can bury Germany in nuclear bombers.

>>31780164
>thousands of B-36s nuking the shit out of Germany

pls. in 45 you had barely enough nuke fuel for the two jap bombs. how to lower the requiered amount of fuel was basically 80% of the devolopment of the nukes.

>>31780207

We had almost 300 warheads by 1950, that's with the massive defense cuts immediately after the war's end.

>>31780246
that's 9 years away from 41 mate. Germany only has to repell US/UK incrusion at this new atlantic wall, now 58,400 ft high, till they have a solid eatern front. and witout th bombing, Germany remains a powerhouse of production.

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>>31780298
>that's 9 years away from 41 mate.

Not anymore it's not, pic related.

>Germany only has to repell US/UK incrusion at this new atlantic wall, now 58,400 ft high

150 MiG-21s cannot patrol the skies over all of Europe Mr. Sprey.

>till they have a solid eatern front.

Not happening, even without the western allies bombing the shit out of German factories the Germans eventually lose the war of attrition in the east.

>>31778609
idunno did they have a atomic bomb?

the war was over after Stalingrad and Kursk. Only reason we got our boots wet in Normandy was to stop all of Europe from falling under the iron curtain so wasting a perfectly good nuke on a war already lost is Hitler tier retarded

also white lives are the only lives that matter so blowing up nips was easier to swallow than our fellow Saxon brethren

>>31780541
>our fellow Saxon brethren
you're not my brother mate. not by a loooooong shot.

>>31780562
;_;

>>31780597
why the croc tears? you burned my civilians alive to save a few jews and stop us fighting the reds.

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>>31780624

>>31780668
what the US did in Vietnam is ten times worse.

>>31780624
w-we tried to fight the reds till they killed off Patton. war was over before the allies ever landed in Italy m8. pick a better alliance next time you go to war kraut

you're welcome for saving half your country womenz from getting raped and pillaged by commie cock tho

>>31780732
I mean, if you think Commies are people, but you're a Nazi so you should hate the commies just as much as we do.

>>31780754
vietnam fucking shits had a right to go commie. if you gave a fuck about freedom, you'd know that. and 60 years later, USA is just as socialistic as everybody else.

>>31779279
>fall of the Roman Empire
>caliming the clothing of their victims and proclaiming themselves the Holy Roman Empire
>the schism and 200 years of religious wars
>nearly ruined math forever by pissing in Newton's cheerios over calculus and physics
>WWI
>WWII
>Merkel
They did.

>>31779194

Mig-21's are strictly day fighters. They have no night vision, and their radar doesn't have a radiator. The radar is cooled by a reservoir of alcohol that evaporates when you turn the radar on. IIRC on the Mig-21 Bis, the radar has enough coolant to work for 15 minutes. After that, it has to be shut off or risk damage to the electronics.

Mig-21 was heavily reliant on ground control to get the plane very close to the target before the pilot switches on his own radar to do final target acquisition. If ground control fuck up, the pilot can not find his target at night.

That's also mentioning the Mig-21 has no night landing aids, and the plane itself is a bitch to land that requires extremely long runways. The supply of Mig-21's is going to dwindle from pilots crashing the thing doing night landings. The Allies will also pick out Mig-21 capable airfields to crater the runway/kill the planes while they are on the ground.

One last thing is that the Mig-21 has very poor range. A one-way range of 1200 km translates to a combat range of about 300 km, allowing for climbing to altitude, 10 minutes of combat engine power, and 10 minutes reserve. You can use the Mig-21 to intercept bombers going to a certain destination, but you are not going to be doing air superiority over the battlefield with them. The Allies can still get tactical air superiority by keeping their fighters low to the ground, and overwhelming the Luftwaffe with sheer numbers.

>>31781234
>this pleb doesn't use Leibniz notation
>this pleb doesn't recognize Gauss, Riemann, Gödel, etc.
>doesn't realize that he admits Karl der Große, aka Charlemagne, was German

You can't really expect to pin the blame of Rome's decline purely on Germans and for it to stand. Either you're willfully ignorant, or you're ignoring everything else happening around 300-470 AD during the precipitous decline of the Western Roman Empire to make a really shitty point.

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>MiG-21s
>ever being good

>>31783477
>not realizing how good the MiG21 actually is

>3rd gen miltirole that can compete with certain 4th gen

>>31783477
Waw so smurt im sure you know better from your chair.

No, not really,

Just keep your fighters close to the ground.
>K-13 can't lock up because of low engine temperature and low plane contrast with the ground
>Mig-21 is really bad at slow speeds. It will probably crash when trying to shoot slow low flying, high maneuverable target (J-catch)
>MiG-21 couldn't use anti-ship missiles.

But the unlimited supply of tactical nukes though...

honestly, it might be better to strip some things out of it to use elsewhere

strip the radar and use it as ground radar
probably better than any period radar

>>31783493

ok mr. sprey

>>31778729
An IR missile that was designed to seek the hot exhaust gases of a jet engine? and not the relatively cool exhaust of a piston powered supermarine spitfire?

>>31778703
Freedom of action "aufträgstaktik" is a German invention.
>>31778725
They did not. Read "Hitlers war" by David Irving. He even sent Rudolf Hess to sue for peace. Soviet Union escalated war, and to a minor exent, as did the French.

>>31783535
>(J-catch)
>aka, the exercise in which nothing actually happened, and consisted of pilots telling each other over the radio they shot each other down, despite not having the ability to do so

>>31784781

>David Irving

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German ubermensch got raped and slaughtered by the mongoloids and there is literally nothing you can do about it.
Most of those who joined Germany against the mongoloids got raped as well. Cant help them either, they were too weak and got curb stomped over and over again.
Superior Aryans were exterminated and will never return, they dont exist anymore, they were all murdered.
They died knowing that the mongoloid that spaded them will rape his wife, children and mother.

>>31778609
No.

It would cause greater air casualties for the Allies / Soviets.. but it would not win them the war.


>150 F-15SE, with no restraint of fuel, ammo, and parts.
Yup, they'll steamroll everything with those backing them.

>>31778609
>>31781412

Couldn't they update the MiG-21 again these days to make it even more viable?

After all, it has a much smaller RCS compared to every other Slav jet except for maybe the T-50 PAK-FA.


>Newer engine (new design or upgraded) with 3DTV nozzle.

>AESA radar with a proper cooling system.

>enlarged delta wing to try to increase fuel & payload capacity, add built in ECM / EW wing tips.

>wet vertical stabilizer for more fuel capacity and a RWR tip.

>"enlarged" belly for internal weapons storage capacity.

>RAM paint / baked RAM panels to replace normal skin where possible.

The MiG-21MZ "Spooky Slav", for nations that can't afford FC-31.

>>31783493
>3rd gen miltirole that can compete with certain 4th gen
It can't compete with 4th gen combat aircraft. It has worse avionics, weapons, flight performance. Maybe latest Mig-21-93 is close to 4th gen in weapons and avionics, other variants are still inferior.

>>31778736
They did start the war you stupid cunt. I'm a legit wehraboo fucking nazi and even I aknowledge that.
Are you aware that the Germans invaded Poland and not the other way around?

>>31778621
>evil
I got bad news for you son

>>31778657
>and then offer peace

>implying the Nazis didn't attempt peace agreements with the allies multiple times before the height of the war
>implying the Nazis didn't try to solve a misunderstanding to no avail after UK and FR declared war after the invasion of Poland
>implying the UK and US aren't just blood thirsty warmongers who take pleasure in destroying other nations

>>31787721
>misunderstanding
Like when SS officers disguised themselves as Poles and carried out attacks on ethnic German civilians living in and around Danzig