Hey /k/, I know people here fantasize about the government coming

Excise spelling and grammar errors I'm on my cellular phone

>>31644363
They won't do anything to those who don't comply. Why would they need to?

You'll never be able to take them to the range, the smith, or the shop, if anybody finds out about them they will report you and then a SWAT team will no-knock you in the middle of the night, or come snatch you while you're on your lunch break at work.

Hundreds of thousands of rifles and mags will get stashed away never to be seen again, eventually your grandkids will discover them stashed in the attic when you die, and they will call the cops to come collect them, or bury them in the woods.

Even if you've got yourself and four or five friends who are all on the same page, all experienced, good shooters, maybe a couple are combat vets, etc, and you all decide you won't comply and want to resist... how are you gonna do it? Who are you gonna shoot at? Any random cop or fed? Doesn't really accomplish anything.

>>31644421
Assassinate a representative or senator who voted for the law.

>>31644421
That was my concern, who do you fight against?

Raiding a police dept isn't wise, and will turn public opinion away from your cause. There isn't going to be some giant evil man HQ. Who do you shoot?

>>31644445

1. Get cancer or whatever.
2. Dig up guns you buried all those years ago.
3. >>31644445

>>31644445
>>31644465
>>31644562
Well this turned into an ATF thread quickly

>>31644585

Well, that's kind of the point of the second amendment, though. Politicians do shady shit without our consent, we remove politicians.

>>31644445
That would be tough to pull off I think. After a few were successful or almost successful they would assign so much security to the politicians that it wouldn't be feasible at all.

To effect political change through violence you don't go after the politicians, you go after the populace. Insurgency is all about making the population believe the only way for there to be peace is for you to win.

This also speaks to >>31644450 regarding public opinion

Once it comes to arms, questions of "public opinion" become very different. You're not trying to convince your opponent anymore, you're not trying to sway their opinion, you're trying to get them to leave, die, or at least give up/shut up. Negotiation can be and often is part of that, but only after force.

>>31644661

It would be entirely infeasible to provide that level of security to every politician in the US. The best you could do would be to herd them and their families into compounds, which would further distance them from the very people whose approval they would need for their laws to be followed. Nobody wants to murder fellow citizens at the behest of a bunch of ivory tower fuckers in a gilded compound a thousand miles away. Especially not when the citizens in question simply want their civil rights upheld.

Also, there's the question of force used to quell the insurgency. We've shot ourselves in the dick with indiscriminate drone strikes in the middle east. The first time a hellfire goes into a school, church or hospital here, the person who ordered that strike and the hundred or so closest to him will be eaten alive by a fucking mob. Dropping ordnance on people who are on the other side of the planet is one thing. Doing that shit in your own back yard is madness.

>>31644417
Atf, you gotta say 'celly', we can see you from a mile away when you use that 80s English American dialect.

>>31644363
>more than 7 rounds
And we thought 10rd limitations were deplorable

>>31644661
Then you target security forces in their homes and families and the families of the securty forces' security forces and so on until the whole country is hired under the state apparatus and collapses into debt or they give up like sensible human beings that don't pass stupid treasonous gun bans

>>31644904

Unfortunately, when you've gotten to that point they're not going to just give up. Either they're eliminated or you are.

>>31644363
I really hate you people. You fantasize about some ridiculous confiscation scheme when that's not how the Second Amendment is going to die.

Here's Hillary's actual plan:
Appoint liberal justices with a narrow view of the 2A
Pass an AWB and expanded background check system through congress
Expand tort liability for firearms manufacturers and dealers

Prepare yourself to fight this type of battle not federal marshals confiscating your weapons.

>>31644985
How do you fight the system when politicians brag to their donors about having "public and private positions?" Whoever you elect will just say whatever you want to hear to get elected and then go to DC and kiss the ring. You can't even prosecute them because they will just delete their emails and deny even the most obvious allegations. I'm not just talking about Hillary here, they will all protect each other to maintain their power.

>>31644363
congress impeaches her for violating the US constitution

supreme court fucks the interpretation of the US constitution, police tell them all to fuck off, they won't do it.

very large armed protests start in earnest, shit rolls uphill.

>>31644723
It would not be impossible to provide that sort of protection to every person who voted for such legislation. It wouldn't be every single politician in the country your small town mayor isn't the one who voted for it, he is probably pretty neutral on it, maybe he even opposes it but complies (or he's a hider). So it gets voted on by who? State level? (That's less than 200 people who need protection per state) Or the federal level? That's only a few hundred nation wide.

What do you mean "murder people for..."? I already said there aren't gonna be hit squads going door-to-door picking up gun owners. It will be like the war on drugs. The guns will still be out there, every now and then people will get found out/dimed out and hit by SWAT.

You can believe if anybody starts shooting cops or politicians the cops will have no problem "murdering fellow citizens".

Drones? Mobs? Hellfires? It will never get to that point. Well I mean, the drones yes, cause they're for surveillance and they're already up there and active.

There's not gonna be anybody dropping ordnance.

>>31644904
So you're saying any random cop, fed, or soldier would be a legitimate target, or politician who supported the law?

>>31644363
It's probably going to be death by a thousand paper cuts, desu.

I see a bunch of new taxes being placed on firearms importers and manufacturers, possibly even the public, that it becomes economically-impractical to own them. At that point, the antis start pushing legislation calling for buybacks to stimulate the economy or something.

>>31645275
Revolution when, Stalker? Now.

>>31645344
>everyone is a target?
I said kill the women and children, paladin.

>>31644363
http://youtu.be/7lw1MrMHQ9o

>>31644661
>To effect political change through violence you don't go after the politicians, you go after the populace.
Never harm the people, but sabotage the things that make them comfortable. Leave it up to the government to bomb hospitals and weddings trying to get you. That'll change public opinion real quick.

>>31644363
As a Brit: They're never going to take your guns.

They'll regulate a little more. Ban painting them blue. Require a little badge saying "owned by a man with a small penis" to try and make them uncool, but they'll never ban them.

They know that people love to confuse the inverse: "When the government becomes Tyrannical, they will take the guns." and they know that if they leave you with guns in some form, you will assume "I have guns, ergo the government is not yet Tyrannical and I do not have to do anything."

And so they'll take your freedom bit by bit. Some NSA spying here, a PATRIOT act there, corrupt president on the end-table and maybe some cameras everywhere. But the gun-nuts still have their guns? Well then, they know that the government isn't REALLY tyrannical, and therefore no action is required.

It's almost beautiful in it's simplicity.

>>31646181
...
God damn it.

>>31646181
Your point is valid, but it may work a bit differently in the USA. It inherently more violent here and getting moreso. I'm watching Australia to see what develops there. Their non-compliance is getting pretty public.

>>31644363
shotgun will always be legal: single, double barreled or even with a capacity of 4 rounds. min barrel length, psych test after the criminal background test, mandatory waiting period and triggerlock plus seperate safes for gun & ammo. Must be registered with cops and neighbours informed, weapon painted highvisibility pink for safety reasons, license renewed on bi-annual basis with retesting on psych and background: weapons stored by police during reassesment: insurence premiums go up if gun in home or vehicle...
bureaucracy will be tthe death of western civilisation as well as the thing that made it possible: ironic no?

>>31644445
Or just put down Shillary

>>31644915
yeah well "you" is 3 million armed angry bubbas, for starters. its more than enough to perpetuate it from our side. a government does not have the resources private citizens have, and being disorganized, they can't actually see all of us coming, all at the same time, any time. on the flip side of that disorganization is that private citizens are unable to stop the ball from rolling, so there's no such thing as a cease fire. those things coupled together are the main reasons why it hasn't happened and why it probably won't.

>>31644985
going after major gun manufacturers when its the lifeblood of our foreign trade AND domestically we have machine shops and experience distributed among millions of people? yeah, please, let it be. that's a much easier fight, and it kills the NFA dead. once you criminally punish even a moderately small manufacturer for making what was acceptable yesterday to the same degree as an NFA-regulated item, then there is absolutely no incentive for the DIYer to differentiate between the two, and shops all over the country fire up their mills and lathes and literally rain suppressors out onto the black market. they're gonna go on guns that were going to get you in just as much trouble, anyway, so why not?

>>31646181
right but you acquiesced to being a boiled frog. remember how you also call us boorish and loud and rude and fat and smelly and all that? guess what sort of frog-boiling people like that will tolerate.

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idk but someones next step is to unload 7.62x39 drums into these things

>>31646388
>It inherently more violent here and getting moreso
It's been getting less violent for the last 20+ years.

>>31646836
Forget suppressors. They'll be raining blowback subguns.

>>31648427
>round up a bunch of bubba's
>go hide in the trees
>take potshots at substations until explosions happen
>move on to the next substation

>>31648427
>>31650812
or shoot once at the transformers at the tops of the poles as you drive down the street.
They're filled with coolant and when it drains out it overheats and blows the transformer

>>31651341
or drive down the street with a chain saw and cut down the poles

The same way they did it in Assachusetts--they'll hit the dealers and make them too scared to sell anything. Nobody ships anything firearms-related to that state anymore and sales of all sporter rifles have stopped... and all it took the antigunners was one illegal declaration by their Attorney General that can't even hold up in court.

>>31644445
better yet get them elected out of office and all their dirty laundry exposed like Leeland Yee. only this time on an international scale.

>>31644421
I'd think there would be some kind of stand or movement.

We could all just meet up somewhere and tell them to fuck off. We don't initiate, but we dare them to attack us. Naturally they would call us terrerorist and probably kill every single one of us.

Maybe not, and maybe others won't do the same. I hope it never comes down to it, but I'll party like it's 1999 if they force my hand.

>>31651483
Is that not what these threads are? Great big anti-ATF think tanks disseminating any of a hundred thousand nightmare scenarios capable of being carried out by stand alone actors or radicalised fire teams on oneshot milk runs

Eventually one of or some fudd unlucky enough to stumble into our fey realm is gonna hit a breaking point and take up one of these fire missions we keep theorizing and refining and running off on tangential targets of opportunity and then a copycat is going to be emboldened and pretty soon a revolution becomes the next viral meme spread by spurdo image macros

>>31644421
This. It's pretty tough to fight against the tide of the will of the nation.

>>31654044
It only takes one good spark and years of uncleared brush to light up the commifornia hillsides for months

>>31654044
If that were so, our country wouldn't exist.

>>31644363
>>31644421
>>31654044
>This. It's pretty tough to fight against the tide of the will of the nation.
You do realize the "will of the nation" is essentially guns + UBC and bans for people on lists or whatever the hell else makes sense to the collective consciousness, right? Most of the country, and I mean a big majority, simply is not interested in guns like we are and the grabbers are, they're just aware of them and come up with opinions when it comes up in current events.

Reality really isn't that interesting. We're not against the will of the nation because the nation doesn't give a shit. You can thank the anti-gunners for that, if you cry wolf enough times eventually people stop listening.

>>31655312
The collective may not violate individual rights, not even for it's own better interest

>>31656000
The fuck are you talking about? Yeah, they fucking will, they already have and they'll do it again which is the whole fucking point of all of this.

Your rights are only as good as your ability to protect them.

>>31655312
And yet pro-gun activists are doing their damnedest to alienate everyone who otherwise doesn't give a shit...

>>31656411
Oh believe me, I know.

Getting our side to smarten up is my goddamn albatross.

>>31656411
>And yet pro-gun activists are doing their damnedest to alienate everyone who otherwise doesn't give a shit...

They really aren't though. NES 2012 data shows that the majority (~60%+) of all those self identified as Democrat, Independent, or Republican support the same or more lenient gun laws. The only category in the crosstabs that have majority support for further gun control are self identified Democrats, and that's still only ~65%. Even more so an effect on gun law opinion than party affiliation is gender.

So if you feel like opinions on gun laws have turned pro-control (they haven't significantly, though the issue is admittedly more polarized since the 90's), get more women into guns. Specifically leftist women.

>>31656057
Thus the tree of liberty must be refresh by each generation with the blood of patriots and tyrants alike. If you are willing to die for freedom, you never had it in the first place.

>>31656741
>aren't
Fuck me trying to post without proofreading.

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>>31644363
How are they going to know who does and doesn't have guns in order to issue warrants to confiscate them?
>There is no national/federal firearms registry.
>There is no national/federal firearms registry
>There is no national/federal firearms registry


Get it yet?

>>31656811
Form 4473

>>31656857
Only designates that a firearm has been transferred from an FFL holder to an individual. Does not track ownership of said weapon.

>>31656857
You obviously missed when we had a discussion about how those forms are stored and how much a pain in the ass it is to use them for anything.

>>31656857
4473 forms reside with the FFL holder not the ATF. The FFL holder is only required to hold those forms for 20 years. The FBI would have issue warrants to collect 4473 forms from every FFL holder ever and even then those forms are automatically obsolete because private sales between individuals do not require FFL's or 4473 forms. Literally all one would need to say is "it fell out muh boat on a fishing trip" or "I sold all my guns to some bloke years ago."

>>31656520
Black women are the key.

>Most live in high crime areas.
>Most are Democrat
>They can't be accused of racism by the left.

I work with two black women that have ccw's. Both are pretty lib but don't like Hillary. The problem is, they like trump less.
The GOP lost them with trump and all the holy roller crap. Otherwise they would be voting just for gun rights.

>>31656857
There are a great many hundreds of thousands of guns every year that are resold at gunstores and pawn shops. That creates duplicate 4473's for the same firearm over and over again and sometimes across multiple states. Tracking down and organizing them all for just one firearm would be the literal bane of ones existence and I would not pitty the agent assigned just to sift through all those 4473's just to find the last known transferee of a firearm

>>31644421
A government which controls everything is a government that cannot be stopped except by itself.

>>31657614
Which is why the people are the sole vestiture of the government's authority in the US, the only that can stop a rogue govt of the people is the people themselves.

>>31656899
>The GOP lost them with trump
But those two are entirely apart.

>>31656917

Not just that but whenever a gun is pawned or put on consignment, if the gun is retrieved by the original owner; a new 4473 is needed.

So you got some nigger pawning the same gun every other week until his paycheck comes (and I see it all the time where I live) and he's literally filling out 2-3 4473's a month depending on his financial situation. For the same gun.

Now multiply this by 12 months and by how many ever years he's been a customer. Then add in trips to other competing pawn shops to try to get better rates. Then say he finally sells it, and then that owner resells it, etc.