Is there any point in having your vertical stabilizers as wholly

>>31642905
smaller surface area while bigger area of effect due to all moving instead of small flaps.

>>31642905
>S-duct shitstorm incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2...

>>31642905
But the Chinese make worse planes.

And they still continue to use Russian and Ukrainian engineers on most of their new planes too.

>>31643649
That's what they want you to think.

They can't make J-20 or J-31 if they make worse planes. Not to mention Chinese anti ship missiles has done what no Russian anti ship missile has done before, that is to sink an American ship.

>>31643689

Which US navy ship was sunk by AShMs? I can't recall one off the top of my head.

I don't think a ship with the USS prefix has been sunk enemy action since WW2.

>>31643689
>Not to mention Chinese anti ship missiles has done what no Russian anti ship missile has done before, that is to sink an American ship.

and that ship would be ?

>>31642905
>Is there any point in having your vertical stabilizers as wholly movable?

It is superior option for both stealth and super-maneuverability.

More surface area means that in order to turn, the stabilizers have to move less compared to partially moving vertical stabilizers whose ends have to go more horizontal. This is bad for RCS as shaping is #1 importance for stealth.

This is a feature you will probably see on 6th generation US fighters.

>>31644027

None of the current batch of 6th gen concept art even have vertical surfaces. They are all no-tail to maximize stealth.

>>31644095
With low-frequency radar and a massive amount of computing power to scan out the surface clutter, they really need to figure out a better way for stealth technology. Manned, or unmanned.

>>31644125
Active stealth by cancelling enemy radar waves is promising and partially used already, but it is very energy consuming.

But if photonic radars take off, stealth will be impossible, and the F-22/35 might as well be flying naked. You can't stop every photon from reflecting back without creating a mini-blackhole.

>F-22 and F-35 obsolete before Chinese radars

Really makes you chink

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>This fucking thread

>>31644324

Good luck with that, it's a meme like cold fusion.

Resolution and search area are always inversely proportional. Stealth fighters can be picked up right now if a radar does a very narrow scan on a very small portion of the airspace.

"Photonic Radars" is also an awful name, considering all radars right now use photons.

>>31644441
meme like Armata amirite?

burgers were like Armata vaporware, but was blwon out when T-14 was shown.

>>31644324
>photonic radars
I looked it up and it sounds a lot like LIDAR in phased array form

>>31642905
>Is there any point in having your vertical stabilizers as wholly movable?
Yes. Higher control force from smaller surface. Non movable surface is dead weight when active control is considered.

>>31643689
Chinese avionics and engines suck dick.

And Russian/Ukrainian engineers have been hired to assist as advisors on the J-XX projects as well as technical data being bought from MiG.

>>31643802
USS magpie, pirate, pledge, sarsi, and partridge, mines off Korea.

USS Liberty, by the isralies (thanks, Allies)

USS thresher, by SPECTRE

USS Scorpion, by sneaky russians

USS Frank Evans, by the australians...

>>31644420
OP here.

It was a sincere question. A wholly moving stabilizer looks like it will have a lot more pressure on the joint ball connecting it to the main body. You don't see this problem in Chinese planes.

>>31645504
We didn't sink the USS Frank Evans. We just cut it in half

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>>31643649
Nein man, Chinks were new to the industry so they used ruskies engines and copied stuff.

But with the J-20, everything about this beauty is Chinese, engine, avionics, design (except the F-35 head).

Ever heard of the WS-15, 10?

>>31642905
>>31645782

Impressive

>>31645259
>Chinese avionics and engines suck dick.
You do realize that they made a copy of Russian engines with no shit trail. While Russians still don't know how to make a clean engine.

And where the fuck you got that engineers info thing?
J-20 is much superior to the Pak-fail, why the fuck they will help the Chinks

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>>31645794
I'm not OP, just forgot to remove the name.

>>31645782
It's not, they literally paid MiG for their work on their 5th gen and have hired Russian/Ukrainian experts.

And I have heard of the WS engines, unsatisfactory. So much they Xi Jinping literally ordered a whole factory industry to remediate the problem.

>>31645797
You do realise the dirty engines are literally the Soviet era ones.

Everything I read seems that the Chinese lag behind the Russians in aerospace, munitions, sensors and submersibles thankfully.

The Chinese will be the big bad of this century.

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>>31645835
WS engines indeed have smaller life than other engines, but they are cleaner than Russian ones.

And wtf Mig shit you are talking about? Is it the Mig 1.44 bullshit?

J-20 design is taken from lost project of the J-9, That existed 25 years before the Mig 1.44.

Su-35 saturn engines are not post soviet era, and they have shit loads of smoke behind them.

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>>31645732
>You don't see this problem in Chinese planes.
No, YOU didn't see this "problem" in Chinese planes because you're a fucking retard who does no research before starting a thread.

I'm betting the PAK FA ends up more capable than the J-20 despite the J-20 looking better on paper. I'll wait to believe that the Chinese somehow jumped a half generation ahead of the Russians after making sub-par copies of their shit for decades.

>>31645782
>In 2015, a representative of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex said that Pakistan would continue to use the RD-93 engine on their fighters.[86] Local media reports in Jan 2016 say that, Russia is planning to sell engines for JF-17 directly to Pakistan.[87] According to a PAC representative, Pakistan is looking to collaborate with Russia in developing and repairing engines[88]
>The J-10 was intended to be powered by the Chinese WS-10 Taihang turbofan, but development difficulties forced the J-10A to use a Russian engine instead
No one wants gook engines. Not even pakis. Not even fucking gooks themselves.

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>>31645865
>And wtf Mig shit you are talking about?
Same as with JF-17, which is essentially MiG's engineers recasting their abandoned LFI project for China.
>J-20 design is taken from lost project of the J-9, That existed 25 years before the Mig 1.44.
Existed as vaporware and could not be built by the gooks until MiG agreed to collaborate and basically develop their aircraft for them. Remember, gooks are incapable of creating anything new on their own. They either copy, outright steal or hire someone else to do the job right.

>>31646082
I said only J-20,not J-17 or J-68569.

Fuck you

>>31646014
Nice meme source

>>31646107
>Lies!
Gook shill, please. How does it feel that your own government is cucked by pakis?

>>31646138
>How does it feel that your own government is cucked by pakis
The other way around m8, China uses Pakistan just to fuck with India

>>31642905
What is YF23.

Why can't USA into planes? They should just buy Chinese.

>>31646227
And pakis don't even use China anymore.

>>31643802
USS Miami, by a horny shipyard worker

>>31644574
>burgers were like Armata vaporware, but was blwon out when T-14 was shown.
>Broke down during parades: http://www.unian.info/world/1075495-new-russian-tank-breaks-down-during-parade-rehearsal.html
>Implying Russia can afford to build T-14s in meaningful numbers

>>31644879
Which suffers from the same atmospheric restrictions as IRST systems but also has active scanning, turning your emitter into a huge flashing beacon.

>>31645779
cheeky cunt.

>>31646082
Mig 1.44 really has nothing common with J-20.

>JF-17, which is essentially MiG's engineers recasting their abandoned LFI project for China.
It was Chengdu J-10, not JF-17.

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>>31643689

>>31643689
>Houthis blow up an unarmed, alone MCS that is no longer owned nor operated by America.
>YES CHINA STRONG
>Chinese missiles do fuck all to the Mason.
>N-nuh they were just RPGs.

Come on zhou

>>31647307
The chicom damage control on the mason is hilarious.

>m...muh rpg...m..muh kornet

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>>31642905
>they actually photoshopped the fanblades on the left side

Why can't Russia just make a fucking s-duct and be done with it?

>>31645504
>USS Frank Evans, by the australians...
Did not know... Well that's just embarrassing.

>>31645504
Only the first few were sunk by enemy action.

If there were so many gooks and ruskies who defected to amerifats in the new soviet jets, why don't chinks do the same?

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>>31647370
>fucking s-duct
No purpose.

>>31648586
>No purpose.
>Watashi wa baito-dess~!

>>31647064
>Implying the Armata is as good as russians claim

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>>31647370
>>Why can't Russia just make a fucking s-duct and be done with it?
what are you talking about?

>>31648646
Good addition.

>>31648720

What's that, anon?

>>31648789
a Russian aircraft with S duct

>>31642905
Aircraft maintainer here. I want you to think about your maintenance nightmare.

All aircraft use a hydraulic actuator to move flaps.

Instead of buried in the jet somewhere, the entire flap is tacked onto a rotating cylinder, attached to a comparatively simple hydraulic set up, that looks to be easy as fuck to get to. its literally a cylinder that does push pull. The linkage is probably easy mode.

Imagine what it takes to move flap or a rudder any where else. same shit. all easy.

Just a matter of access. Those are basically exactly what is on an F-15 or F-16 tail assembly. just up top. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabilator

consider it an all moving V tail like on the YF-23
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-23#Design

not being a slavboo. Just being an education-mo.

>>31642905
I can't believe that I'm responding to this, but I don't see any responses with the correct explanation, sooo...

Back when fighters were starting to go supersonic, a serious issue was discovered with regards to control authority. Basically, the tiny rudders and ailerons weren't getting the job done, leading to crashes.

The solution? Make the whole vertical stabilizer into one big rudder with lots of hydraulic (today, electrical) power behind it. Now you have enough surface area to retain control at supersonic speeds.

Hint: US fighters are built the same way.

>>31648834

What's the aircraft? I would like to google

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>>31648933
SR-10

>>31648926
>lots of hydraulic (today, electrical) power behind it
>Hint: US fighters are built the same way.
Nope, still hydraulic. The difference is that in the F-35 it's self-contained electro-hydrodynamic actuator modules instead of a big pressurized loop running through the entire airframe.

>>31643292
Vertical tails aren't sized for the control surface. They're sized for the inherent stabilizing effect their symetric airfoil has on the lateral stability characteristics of the aircraft. You'll notice the actual control surfaces are significantly smaller than the vertical tail, in most cases.

>>31644125
>they really need to figure out a better way for stealth technology

Look up Negative-Index Metamaterials.

Could render any and all existing radar based stealth detection techniques ineffective and the US is almost certainly at the forefront.

>>31649002
If aircraft relies on static stability.

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>>31647370
But they can.

>>31652117
And yet they didn't in a supposedly "stealth" fighter (that they admit is only Eurocanard-tier LO).

>>31652235
Both X-32 and YF-23 had exposed fan blades and yet were stealth enough.
>that they admit is only Eurocanard-tier LO
Nah, never happened. They say it is F-22 tier.

>>31652273
And yet both those jets never made production. How weird.

The patent from Sukhoi disagrees with you.

>>31653109
Wasnt it because maintenance costs were excessive? At least for the SU 47

>>31653447
We weren't talking about the SU-47, but it would have had very high maintenance costs, yes. As it turns out, those wings like to flex, and that flex is not good for the wings.

>>31653447
>>31653475
Also, the whole tiny range and no viable weapons load make it a pretty bad fighter over all famamalama.

>>31649000
So does that mean you don't lose control of the entire aircraft's hydraulics if there's a leak in the tail since the hydraulics lose is localized to a specific part of the F-35?

>>31653554
Generally, yes. Except for things like the brakes, which run on a separate engine driven hydraulic system.

>>31653554
>>31653681
It's also part of why it's so grating to hear people call the F-35 fragile. 40+ years ago the 4th Gens were built out of aluminum, hydraulic loops, and the modern equivalent of guesswork engineering. And all of those could limp back with a wing off.

Now we have planes with superstrong lightweight composite materials and all components have failure isolation and redundancies impossible in the old days, and it's all assembled and calculated in a live 3D engineering model, but you still get that blatant ignorance repeatedly parroted as if truth.

>>31654097
Well, to be fair, it is a plane, and planes rely on some pretty fragile things to fly. But that's all planes, not just the F-35.

>>31653109
And yet they both were perfectly stealth.
The Statement from PAK FA chief designer agrees with with both me and the patent.
>"У caмoлeтa F-22 (aмepикaнcкий иcтpeбитeль пятoгo пoкoлeния) - 0,3-04 кв.м. У нac aнaлoгичныe тpeбoвaния к зaмeтнocти", - cкaзaл Дaвидeнкo.
http://archive.ec/NUzU

>>31653109
And here's another one from Russian Academy of Sciences.
>y пepcпeктивных aвиaциoнных кoмплeкcoв пятoгo пoкoлeния, тaких кaк F-22, JSF, - 0.3 м2
http://vivovoco.astronet.ru/VV/JOURNAL/VRAN/03_10/STELLS.HTM

>>31651335
Very good point. I knew that there were materials that absorb radar. Guess I was kinda stupid to assume that they haven't advanced ( or probably even perfected ) this already.

>>31653475
It would have had excessive maintenance cost exactly because it had full composite wing designed to withstand excessive loads caused by ballistic trajectory take off from a carrier. It was abandoned not because it failed to withstand such loads, but because when even slightly damaged by enemy fire or something else such a wing was losing its structural integrity, could not endure even conventional wing load and had to be fully replaced due to its monolith composite structure, which not only skyrocketed maintenance cost, but also made it virtually impossible to fix the aircraft in field.

>>31653487
>tiny range and no viable weapons load
You just made this shit up.

>>31645504
Wait.
WHAT do you think sank the thresher?

>>31645779
Wasn't even our fault, their dumb captain was on the wrong side for a turn, thought he was top shit and could get in front of Melbourne and then ate shit

>>31653109
>And yet both those jets never made production. How weird.
Both of that planes passed stealth requirements from MoD.
>>31653447
Su-47 was not even ordered, it was initiative program of Suchoi company.

>>31652117
STOP FUCKING RELATING RUSSIA WITH SOVIET UNION, THEY ARE FUCKING DIFFERENT COUNTRIES YOU FUCKING ACE COMBAT KIDS.

>>31658135
What does this have to do with Su-47 that was built in Russia for Russians by Russians in a Russian design bureau named after a Russian? Get off mount stupid and learn history, Russia existed before USSR, during USSR and continues to exist after USSR.

>>31658284
And was the dictator state of the USSR.

>>31658308
you think CCCP politicians made the su-47?

>>31658308
Piss off to /pol, faggot.

>>31658338
>>31658371
>Butthurt vatniks