What should the Germans have created to fight the T-34? Obviously

>>31624501
A T-34

Maybe add some improvements to the optics/crew comfort

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>>31624501
Probably something like a late panzer iv with the long 75mm, but with more armour. Or a smaller panther without the autistic reliability issues. Take your pick.

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>>31624501
A reliable Panther. The tank would have been great had it not broken down at every single point possible.

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>>31624526
Are you me?

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>>31624531
Yes and no. We're simply two parts of the Panthermind.

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>>31624538
>Tfw you'll never get to hunt for zippos in the Normandy hedgerows with your loyal panther crew

>>31624550
I haven't updated my slang dictionary yet, what's a zippo?

>>31624558
A flame thrower sherman tank.

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>>31624550
>Tfw you'll never get to hunt for zippos in the Normandy hedgerows with your loyal panther crew because your tank broke down during the march and your brigade has less than a 40% operational readiness because of piss-poor reliability

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>>31624558
Shermans used to be called a zippo or a ronson ( think cigarette lighters) because of how easily they ignited. The Brits called them tommy cookers and I'm pretty sure the phrase zippo or ronson even became german slang

>>31624560
I quickly rechecked after I saw this; ronson was the flamethrower tank, zippo was the nickname for regular shermans.

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As much as I love the Panther and hate the bashing that it receives, the VK 30.02 (D) would be the preferred choice. Basically a fancier t-34. A nice simple tank.

Panther should have been built instead in place of the Tigers as a breakthrough heavy tank.

>>31624562
>Tfw you'll never get to hunt for zippos in the Normandy hedgerows with your loyal panther crew because you died in some nameless forest on the Eastern front in a panzer III because your unit didn't receive any upgrades and everything else was frozen solid.

>>31624586
That's the weirdest looking mantlet I've seen. What's up with that?

>>31624586
This.

>>31624582
>zippo was the nickname for regular shermans.
No. Zippo is the flame Sherman used in the Pacific, Crocodile in Europe.

>>31624586
Why was it not build, do you know? What the Germans desperately required was reliability, but for some inexplicable reason they did not have it. The T-34s were poorly manifactured uncomfortable spamtanks with piss-poor welds and open holes in the armour on some tanks due to poor quality control, but atleast they worked.

>>31624501
Quantity over quality, thats how the soviets won (thought they also had quality)

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>tfw you'll hunt the fuck out of Zippos and kill them by the hundreds, but you'll never get any recognition for it because everyone idolizes the big cats and no one loves poor little hardworking panzerjagers like you or your friend STuG

>>31624613

Hitler kept pushing the bigger is better concept and MAN was willing to play along while Daimler-Benz wasn't

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>>31624609
Zippo was still used as a nickname, and the crocodile variant was based of the more populer Churchill version, I'm pretty sure they didn't make very many of them.

>>31624602
Because the vehicle never entered serial production, so the design wasn't technically finalized. Stuff like the mantlet would have been redesigned to suit rapid production pretty swiftly.

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>>31624618
>Tfw you'll get more kills than anything else against tanks but all those armoured faggots still get all the glory

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>>31624618
>StuG
>panzerjäger
They're assault guns, mate. Organized into batteries like any artillery.

>>31624627
Also I believe Hitler thought it looked too much like a copy of a t-34, and building it would look more like a direct admission that the Russian design was more formidable than contemporary German designs.

>>31624618
You're exceptionally far from the mark. Pretty much every single extant anecdote from German veterans has them praising assault gun crews for generally being rad as fuck. They were ever-present thanks to the sheer number produced and always stuck around thanks to the nature of defensive operations. When you had to hold some shitty dirt hovel in the middle of the Black Earth oblast you had a StuG by your side, guaranteed.

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>>31624641
>>31624618

At least you lucky fucks get to keep being used after every tank you kill

>>31624653
I remember reading that they didn't want to exact copy the t34 because it woul be too easy for the Russians to reverse engineer any improvements done to it.

>>31624655

I meant to say all the casual ww2 enthusiasts love the big cats and pay no attention to anything smaller then a panzer IV

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>>31624659
At least there was something left of you when you were used

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The Entwicklung Series of course.

Standardized parts like the Shermans. No more fucking around with multiple factories, combined with Hitler's over the top panzer wet dreams.

Remarkably Guderian signed off on the concept.

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>>31624682

Woof!

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>>31624664
That's possible, but they weren't afraid to modify captured t-34s.

>>31624501
A "panther" that works.

Pretty simple really.

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>>31624695
At least you were cheap

>>31624700
Oh no doubting that, but I'm thinking they meant more of a full conversion, with fully integrated optics and all german parts, and a little bit more comfort and crew survivability.

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HNNNNNNNG.

Jagdpanther is best Panther.

>>31624501
>What should the Germans have created to fight the T-34?
Light cavalry with hit and run attacks. Charge behind and bazooka the tanks from the back. Then retreat. Like light dragoons.

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>>31624726
The Soviet tank desants look at your troops in wonder, being unable to comprehend the sheer insanity in your actions until they quickly gun the cavalry down.
What do?

>>31624726

They would still have lost, but this would make their loss even funnier.

I approve.

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More HS-129's and more escort fighters to cover them.

>>31624737
Steel plates on the majestic war steeds. They will be neigh invulnerable to the flimsy soviet guns.

>>31624586
Holy shit it's beautiful, look at dem slopes

>>31624558
It'd anime given to the M5 by idiots, almost as bad as calling M113's Gavin's.
>>31624569
No, stop it, the unadulterated bollocks in your post physically hurt.

The Panther is good. Just don't rush it into production.

Even if the Russians has a million tanks, if they don't have air superiority the Germans can divebomb them all. Germany needed planes more than tanks.

>>31624767
Fuck.
Curse this phone keyboard.
'Its a name given to the M4 by idiots'.

>>31624783
>dive-bombing
>Single-handedly solving Germany's problems
No.

>>31624613
T34s were very hastily manufactured which led to numerous realiability problems and their engines wore out very quick. This is not as big of an issue when they arent expected to live for long.

>>31624693
>signed off
What does that mean?

>>31624740
How about giving them enough horsepower aswell.
And copy the PTAB, and get panzerblitz into action.

>>31624726
Krauts getting their shit pushed in even faster and easier. I approve.

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>>31624501
Realistically? Once T-34 production started deploying in large numbers it was all over for Nazi Germany. Their industrial capacity was dwarfed by the soviet union. The T-34 was a rough tank, with awful ergonomics and mediocre optics but it was reliable, had a good enough gun and could be built in huge numbers, and the Germans had no equivalent design, nor the capability to build enough of one.

But... If we assume Germany uses every single vehicle plant in Europe to produce an opponent, refer to >>31624509. Build a T-34 with better optics and more efficient ergonomics, but make sure it's still cheap and easy to produce, and get anyone you can find who is willing to drive it. The technology was not mature enough at the time to produce a force multiplier effective enough to counter the T-34 (Which is why the Tiger and Bengal Tiger never had a chance - let alone the fucking Maus. They were unreliable and more importantly expensive as fuck to produce and maintain.)

>>31625469
The Germans had better training, better doctrine and in general were vastly more effective in armoured combat. Had they used an improved T-34, they would certainly dominated their Soviet counterparts.

>>31624501
>What should the Germans have created to fight the T-34?
Easy mode: Panther.
Hard mode: T-54.

>>31624501
>torsion bar without interleaved roadwheels
>80mm @ 45deg from vertical glacis; this gives it frontal immunity to 76mm guns and the 85mm guns will have trouble outside of 500m
>More or less Pz IV armor everywhere else; this is a "front towards enemy" kind of tank
>75/L48 which does the job against anything that isn't an IS
>actual ergonomics, unlike the Panther

Basically a Super PzIII with thick frontal armor

>>31624613
>but atleast they worked.
T-34s had humongous reliability issues through 1941-1943 years. Reliability achievement for receiving state awards for T-34 production factories was 1000 km of mileage.

>>31624783
Wrong. Divide claimed ground kills from aircraft, especially AFVs, by 50-100 to get the actual number

Tankbusting aircraft were pretty much a meme in WW2, as BDA discovered just how ridiculously airforces overclaimed.

>>31625489
Soviet training and doctrine was quite relevant to the tanks they had, if germans accept into service a different tank that can be built in larger numbers they have to cut the training to have enough crews, and with less trained crews they have to accept a different doctrine. Pretty much Soviet doctrine, with some changes.

>>31625556
>Tankbusting aircraft were pretty much a meme in WW2, as BDA discovered just how ridiculously airforces overclaimed.
This is for Allies suckers. German tunkbusters did fine.

>>31624501
7,5cm PaK

>>31625551
Better than the Panthers.

>>31625567
Sure they did.
The plan: fly shtuka, that claim to personally kill 1/8 of soviet tanks ever destroyed from air, 1,5 tank divisions total. Sorry, memes should remain memes.

>>31625556
Aircraft still accounted for 5-10% of confirmed tank kills in battles.

>>31625469
>mediocre optics
Aberdeen testing says otherwise

>>31625567
Neck yourself, wehraboo.

>>31625582
Pro tip: according to soviet documents they lost about 10000 tanks from air attacks...

>>31624582
Ronson was any Sherman

Zippo was a flamethrower tank in PTO

Tommy cooker was any tank in British use.

>>31624525
The heck's that cord instead of the front MG? Part of the infrared lamp nightvision system?

>>31625582
~40% hit accuracy on dives is pretty good though. Consider also the lack of forest cover in the Russian taiga.

>>31625597
<citation needed>

>>31625603
European Russia is not taiga, dumbass, european Russia is pretty much covered in forests. Only place that really lacked it was southern Ukraine and Crimea.

>>31625616
Fuck, not taiga. I made a connection between the Saiga living on the Russian plains and for some reason recalled the plains' name as taiga. Not much air cover in those plains, is what I meant.

>>31625616
http://militera.lib.ru/science/radzievsky_ai/04.html

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>>31625603
Taiga?

>>31625659
>http://militera.lib.ru/science/radzievsky_ai/04.html
Thats total. Meaning from all kinds of aircraft. And it is not 10% throughout the war, as the table shows 3rd guards tank army during Kiev operation only lost 0.5% to air attacks, and 94.8% to artillery. You dont just take the largest number and call it a day.

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>>31624586
Bigger version.

>>31625679
You don't just take the smallest number and call it a day either, so why are you?

>>31625713
I dont, i just brought that as an example.

>>31625679
Yes you take average number.

>>31624501
>Take t34
>Put the engine sideways to upen more space
>Decrease the profile
>Maximum 40 tons with 20hp/t engine power
>Increase the frontal armour for 55mm more and slope it to 60 degrees
>Add 100mm cannon with apds aphe and he
There you go now you have a all around tank that can kill t34 and is2's, act as a break through heavy and medium support tank.
SIMPLY A MBT FOR WW2

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Ideally, a better Panther. Or, the proposed Panzer IV Ausf. K, with a simplified turret and sloped hull plates borrowed from the Jagdpanzer IV.

>>31624525
Too big and heavy to be a medium and those road wheels are tankers nightmare. So many potential this tank had it could've been a german heavy tank with more armor and 88mm on the paper i love panther but in reality they were shit

>>31624531
What a childish stratagy they based on to create this abomination of engineering. Didn't they stop and think of a second that horde of il2s with ptab cassetes could make a short work of maus

>>31624757
why do they have ears and tails

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>>31625158

Signed on to*. Sorry Had too much to drink.

>>31625965

I presume because one's a tiger and the other a panther. As for Panzer IV girl, she was getting old and decided to do what the kids were doing.

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Hi guise :DDDDD

Whads going on in dis tread :DDDDD

Did somone say banthers :DDD

>>31624509
somekind of tankette, with a big gun and enough armour to get past small arms. doesn't matter if it's volkssturm pensioners, the jugendest hitlerjugend or even disposable guys from the belly battalions when they have a force multiplier like that. Now how to get enough oil and ammo...